Do all Brahma Kumars and Brahma Kumaris masturbate?

From, Ethicality and credibility of some ex-BKs in question.

Last year, mr green made a comment in passing attempting to lessen the worries and turmoil of a BK adherent who was feeling guilty for masturbating. He said ...

Sexual thoughts are natural and positive, if it was not for sexual thoughts you would not be alive! ... All BKs masturbate, many have sex.

And when challenged about "all", he clarified...

Maybe that is untrue. But, come on, why help the poor guy stay in misery?

I know and am now saying that some very senior members masturbate.

Clearly he was not making an categorical statement, it was just a figure of speech *in context*, and so it would be unfair to use it to discredit all comment made by everyone who has freed themselves from the total sexual control of the Brahma Kumaris.

Therefore, let us examine the statement, "Do all Brahma Kumars and Brahma Kumaris masturbate?"

Perhaps this conversation can also go as far as to discuss the nature and activities of such sexual desires in general, whether their total repression is healthy for individuals (especially young teenagers), and what the Brahma Kumaris think about them?

Is it fair to exaggerate the claims without substantiating the same ... "All BKs masturbate, many have sex." "All Brahmakumari sevikas are lesbians".

Really? How do you exactly know? :)

What do you think, and you Arvind?

Yes, it might be a surprise to a new BK who has a pure vision of what the BKWSU is meant to be but there is some truth to these allegations, and it is important ... in the public interest ... because if the BKs in general are enforcing total celibacy on others - especially, e.g. young teenagers entering puberty * - and traumatising them with all sort of foolish, unsubstantiated ideas about love, sex, affection and sexual emissions - which they have done and still do - then it is gross hypocrisy and corruption to discover that they themselves are not following that advice.

For example, we had a case where a center-in-charge Hansa Raval had started legal action against us in attempt to destroy or suppress us ... and it turned out not only had she had a relationship with another BK but gotten married secretly, after having left her first husband and young child to join the BKWSO and rise up its ranks. She kept her BK "slave" followers following the principles and, we presume, laws of the land but she herself did not.

And the leadership supported her.

Why not ask the BKWSU to do an anonymous review and provide us with the facts (about this and many other simple examples), e.g.

• Ask how many BKs have masturbated, how often, and how many do so regularly?

• Ask what proportion consider they have homosexual tendencies, how many have expressed them, and how many do so regularly?

Will you get an honest answer? No. Why?

a) Because the Brahma Kumaris tend not to be honest but instead present the mask or facade that they think is most correct or acceptable, and
b) Because sex, attachment to other human beings and physical affection is so punished and stigmatised within the organization that few individuals BKs would risk being honest.

We, here, can only report on the discussion and leave people to come to their own assumptions. We can provide readers with overall snapshots leading to further inquiry.

The interesting about the homosexual issue is that it even came up in the Murli once. Baba/Lekhraj Kirpalani mentioned how some BKs were developing attachments towards each other and how "they even touched each other" - approx translation. (Wet or sexual dreams is another similar issue). Was her referencing lesbian activity?

(This may have been removed in later revisions, I do not know as the BKWSU does not allow access to original copies of the Murlis, and hides and covers up the originals because they contain too many failed predictions, factual errors and many politically correct statements, e.g. about dark skinned people, cripples, politicians and religious leaders).

Is or was such activity evidence of "homosexual" tendencies or merely expressions of individuals starved of physical love and affection? It's difficult to know without talking to them. It's a problem in India, as you know, especially with men who cannot afford wives etc. They indulge in homosexual acts, like prisoners do in jail just because they are starved of other outlet for their libido, but really they are not.

• Do all BKs masturbate?

Given that many are over 70 and probably cannot get it up, and women are statistically less likely to masturbate than men, I doubt it.

• Have many BKs masturbated?

Yes, without a doubt.

How do I know? From them telling me, and others reporting similar discussions with others.

• Do many have sex? Define "many".

I would have said, "some".

How do I know? From them telling me, and others reporting similar discussions with others (including centers-in-charge).

• Are all Brahmakumari sevikas are homosexuals?

No, of course not. Are some? Yes, without any doubt.

How do I know? From them telling me, others reporting similar discussions with others, and general statistics/genetic knowledge about human beings. (Statistically some say 2%, others say 10%, the problem being some human beings are bi-sexual, therefore we would expect to see similar proportions in the BKWSU).

You could also, of course, ask the BK Seniors if these statements are true as they know of even more cases than we do because they hear and read all their confessions.

Fact.

Do I accept *some* Brahma Kumaris have *never* masturbated? Yes, I do actually (Brahma Kumars or males less likely). But I'd like to ...

a) know the truth
b) for them to openly discuss and teach the truth, and
c) for there to be a clear, explicit and open set of guidelines which all are allowed to follow equality (and not a world of favoritisms, unrealistic aims, secret deals and false impressions.

Make it clear, e.g. one wank and you are out of the Golden Age, make love to another BK, and it's an incarnation at end of the Silver Age for you for ever. And if that's not how it works, please tell me how it does. Seriously.

For example, does giving money to Dadi erase you bad wank karma?
* The total control of other people and specifically young people's sexual activity within the Brahma Kumaris even goes as far as Dadi Janki telling roomfuls of young people that they have to be so attentive not to have any "impure" (meaning sexual) thoughts ... even in the dreams. They are even supposed to be conscious whilst they sleep and repress any such feelings.

Adherents are encouraged to confess any such feelings or "deviant" activities to their Seniors, even married couples. There is no part of the person which is left personal to individuals.

Dadi Prakashmaniji giving BKs a blessing in Mount Abu

Dadi-giving-BKs-a-blessing.jpg (85.28 KiB) Viewed 10630 times

For the sake of our ethical record, this photograph has been digitally enhanced
to illustrate a point of great public interest!

Yesterday I replied here and I don't see my answer here. Somebody The Admin moved the partial answer to this thread : Ethicality and credibility of some ex-BKs in question and there is no mention that somebody answered here.

Off topic post moved to recent related topic. Author was informed of move at time. Please keep on topic.

Do all Brahma Kumars and Brahma Kumaris masturbate?

Metaphorically?

Yes.

Is the Brahma Kuamris demand for total celibacy about genuine spiritual needs and benefits, or merely conforming to a very mixed up society's morality for political and status related reasons?

Yesterday I replied here and I don't see my answer here. Somebody The Admin moved the partial answer to this thread : Ethicality and credibility of some ex-BKs in question ...

Looking at your response, you did not discuss the question, "Do all Brahma Kumars and Brahma Kumaris masturbate?". Instead, you continued to spread your theme of, "all ex-BKs are unethical and so therefore their criticisms have no credibility and they should apologise to the BK leaders" here.

There's an Admin notice somewhere about moving and merging topics to keep them on topic. Some people's traffic control is poor and they wander all over the place.

Question, do you still masturbate or have sex with your wife? Is your wife a BK too and how does she feel about it?

I wonder how many of the most senior BKs have masturbated or had an orgasm, or how they could know about their nature without experiencing them?

But what I don't understand is, how can a BK ...

Drive an automobile at 70 mph in heavy traffic ... and still be able to "Remember Baba".
Even fire a gun, or carry out intense surgery on another human being ... and still be able to "Remember Baba".
Try and lie and cheat immigration departments in order bring in other BKs into the country ... and still be able to "Remember Baba".
Lie, mislead and manipulate ... and still be able to "Remember Baba".

But not be able to make love to their wife ... and still be able to "Remember Baba".

Personally, I think you probably could masturbate or have sex and "Remember Baba" ... but it would probably spoil the experience. And, of course, Brahma Kumaris leaders have encouraged female follower to wean their husbands off sex (and them) by allowing them to "make sex" on them ... whilst remembering Baba (i.e. lie there like a corpse, essentially). The more serious issue is how are the BK framing the issue, are they surrounding it with guilt and shame, and are they manipulating that afterwards through confession and punishment.

On the other hand jod, the BK leaders *do* punish BKs who masturbate ... or rather any BK daft enough to tell them they have masturbated. That is a fact. I knew one Brother who was banned from going to Madhuban for a year because he confessed to jerking off ... which is a bit hypocritical when you consider what happens up there or some center-in-charge get to do.

Where is the code written down?

If, for example, the lesson is "you get punished for confessing"; people will just learn to deceive and not confess. Or is the principle just one of ad hoc, uneven favoritism, e.g. one low ranking Brother is banned whilst another BK "asset" is allowed to go off and get married and have sex and still go to Madhuban and be treated like a VIP?

Is it a genuinely spiritual, or just more social and invasive personal control?

How are their disciplines policed?

More rigid Western BKs have been shocked, in the past, by Indian BK followers who's grasp or appreciation of the Maryadas is different, e.g. one I remember was an Indian "BK" of 12 years having a child of 7 years (example dates) and claiming, "Baba touched me to produce another BK" ... meaning he thought he was inspired by a god spirit who demands total celibacy ... including no masturbation or mutual masturbation ... to Father another child.

As ever, we need to observe all this within the content of Indian mores (essential or characteristic customs and conventions of a community) which might include an inability to discuss such matters openly, especially female sex desire and expression (never mind masturbation) and the need to pretend to uphold an image of spirituality including total celibacy to sustain the facade of being a high caste Brahmin.

The pandav bhavans had a large proportion of its budget set aside for toilet roll, we used to buy it in bulk at Macro.