Revelation of GOD through the Holy-Trinity

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shivsena

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Re: Revelation of GOD through the Holy-Trinity

Post27 Jun 2014

warrior wrote:Shivsena,

Today is the death anniversary of Om Radhe.
BKs sent me this Murli apparently spoken by Om Radhe Mama on 21st/06/1964.
Not sure maybe BKs created this Murli or added stuff to it.

From my point of view this Murli is very simple there is no deep churning at all to qualify this soul to be a Super Shakti and Avatar of Supreme Soul on planet Earth.

Warrior Bhai.....if you read carefully the Murlis before and after Mama became karmatit in 1965, you can easily see the difference in pattern of Murlis.....the pre-1965 Murlis are very simple-streamlined-easy to understand and the post-1965 Murlis are jumbled up like a riddle with the preceding-succeeding statements not linked to each other....the post-1965 Murlis give The Knowledge of behad ka Sangamyugi drama(what is going to happen in future 50 years) in a riddle form and the pre-1965 Murlis generally gives The Knowledge of the broad drama and how one must lead a pious life.....this is what i feel.
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ex-l

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Re: Revelation of GOD through the Holy-Trinity

Post27 Jun 2014

shivsena wrote:... the pre-1965 Murlis are very simple-streamlined-easy to understand and the post-1965 Murlis are jumbled up like a riddle with the preceding-succeeding statements not linked to each other ...

You don't think there might just be a simple answer like, as Warrior says, the BKs making a mess of re-editing them ... or the ageing and, we should explore, traumatised Lekhraj Kirpalani (traumatised at having prematurely lost his eternal partner Om Radhe to death by cancer) merely becoming mentally weaker between her death in 1965 and his death in 1969?

Perhaps even his faith was wavering, hence his famous line about giving all the money and property from the BKWSU to the Indian government if Destruction did not happen in 1976 ...

How he must have felt at his death approaching and his life work having been a failure, and - hopefully - all the loss and damage to families he had caused.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Revelation of GOD through the Holy-Trinity

Post27 Jun 2014

ex-l wrote: it’s difficult to say unless you define "conspiracy".
There's definitely been collective collusion to deceive and manipulate the past.

If there is not one "big conspiracy" then I'd say there have been a few little conspiracies on the way that have all snowballed together.
Yes, a number of little conspiracies along the way - each of them seeming to be the right thing to do at the time. i doubt any direct connection back to earlier decisions, that would imply they have a sense of consistency and long term strategies.

How else did the "official history" get made unless at some point a group sat down and said, "OK, this is the way we are going to present it from now" and then kept others inline to that story?
Here again i think it is based on what becomes a collective mythology, retelling the parts of the story that appeals, each time with slight changes according to what paints the best picture at the time.

Are you suggesting it was a collusion based on their collective vanity and inadequacies rather "evil" intention? I'd say that was fair enough ... and it pitches at what level they are at.
Yes.

Save Innocents

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Re: Revelation of GOD through the Holy-Trinity

Post27 Jun 2014

Shivsena wrote: "if you read carefully the Murlis before and after Mama became karmatit in 1965"

Hi Shivsena,

can you throw some light on "KARMATIT" state of human being ? What is its interpretation from BKs, PBKs & finally from your's point of view?
Ex-I wrote:How he (Lekhraj) must have felt at his death approaching and his life work having been a failure, and - hopefully - all the loss and damage to families he had caused.

Why would he feel anything? Someone with feeling would never do this. And at the end, if he ever felt guilt about wrong knowledge that he propagated to earn follower, their service, money, etc, he should have publicly confessed for his mistakes.
Perhaps even his faith was wavering, hence his famous line about giving all the money and property from the BKWSU to the Indian government if Destruction did not happen in 1976 ...

Well, that can be considered as a form for expressing his guilt as he knew nothing like destruction-construction is happening as he said. It was all made up story. For making his new theory about time cycle, life death, rebirth,etc he must have read scriptures translated to simple languages (cause he did not know Sanskrit in which most Indian scriptures are written). So he must have been aware of his fate in next birth (hell) for framing himself to be a God. That's why he confessed to donate his money to Government.
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ex-l

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Re: Revelation of GOD through the Holy-Trinity

Post27 Jun 2014

Save Innocents wrote:For making his new theory about time cycle, life death, rebirth,etc he must have read scriptures translated to simple languages (cause he did not know Sanskrit in which most Indian scriptures are written). So he must have been aware of his fate in next birth (hell) for framing himself to be a God. That's why he confessed to donate his money to Government.

Interesting reflection.

Yes, he was not educated and, despite all the exaggerated claims made about him by the BKs, not particularly spiritual or religious beforehand. In fact, in the criticisms of him published in the 1930s and 40s, this is commented upon. At best it was said his understanding of religion was good enough for reading to the uneducated women and girls who made up his satsang ... but then he lost it and started to think himself Prajapati God Brahma and Krishna himself, and enjoyed the women and girls as his gopis.

The ongoing research theory is that there was another individuals within the community, one of his elders and business partners, who was more mature and developed but who split and died earlier who had the better influence.

warrior

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Re: Revelation of GOD through the Holy-Trinity

Post27 Jun 2014

ex-l wrote: ....and enjoyed the women and girls as his gopis.


Your statement is correct according to todays BK Murli:
This one also shares his experience. Even at a very young age, he used to have
thoughts of disinterest. He used to say: There is so much sorrow in this world. If only I could get ten
thousand rupees, I would then be able to get fifty rupees interest and that would be enough to allow me to
remain free. It is very difficult to look after a home and business. Achcha! Then Baba saw a film called
“Saubhagya Sundri" (The fortunate, beautiful woman) and then all the previous thoughts of disinterest were
lost. He began to have thoughts of marrying and doing this and that. Maya slapped him just once and
everything was lost. Therefore, the Father now says: This world is the depths of hell and, within this, those
films and the cinema are also depths of hell.
SM 27/06/14

warrior

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Re: Revelation of GOD through the Holy-Trinity

Post27 Jun 2014

ex-l wrote:
The ongoing research theory is that there was another individuals within the community, one of his elders and business partners, who was more mature and developed but who split and died earlier who had the better influence.


yes back to the topic and maybe to the 'real' holy trinity ;)

shivsena

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Re: Revelation of GOD through the Holy-Trinity

Post28 Jun 2014

Save Innocents wrote: Hi Shivsena,

can you throw some light on "KARMATIT" state of human being ? What is its interpretation from BKs, PBKs & finally from your's point of view?

From BK point of view, the term karmatit means that once you have nullified all your actions, then you leave the body and become an angel.

I do not know about the PBK point of view, as they do not believe in angels..they believe to become devta with this body.

I believe that we have to become karmatit angels by nullying our karmas through Yoga power and once our karmas are nullified, then one day we will fly with wings of Gyan and Yoga (as per Vanis)...In simple terms the word Karmatit means "beyond the bondage of body and karma."

Save Innocents

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Re: Revelation of GOD through the Holy-Trinity

Post29 Jun 2014

Shivsena wrote: karmatit means that once you have nullified all your actions.

Nullifying actions or karma? There is big difference in both. If you are after nullifying actions then nothing is going to happen as such except binding punya karmas but if you are after nullifying your karmas then there is a good opportunity awaiting you.
I believe that we have to become karmatit angels by nullying our karmas through Yoga power and once our karmas are nullified, then one day we will fly with wings of Gyan and Yoga (as per Vanis)...In simple terms the word Karmatit means "beyond the bondage of body and karma."

What are you going to get after becoming angels? Even angels have to take birth as a human being on Earth after completing their lifespan. So, suffering will not leave even if you dream of becoming an angel. All living being have to return on Earth to suffer. Why are you after a temporary achievement of becoming an angel? [ I am asking you this because I feel you want to go higher or become free from all bondages.]

As soon as karma get nullified, one goes to Liberated state in Siddha Kshetra & then never returns for rebirth. That is goal of life & spirituality (atleast for an Indian). You have already gone to heavens & become angel several times, but what was its benefit? At last we find ourselves here dealing with hundreds of problems or not?

Warrior wrote an extract from Murli as :
This one also shares his experience. Even at a very young age, he used to have
thoughts of disinterest. He used to say: There is so much sorrow in this world. If only I could get ten
thousand rupees, I would then be able to get fifty rupees interest and that would be enough to allow me to
remain free. It is very difficult to look after a home and business. Achcha! Then Baba saw a film called
“Saubhagya Sundri" (The fortunate, beautiful woman) and then all the previous thoughts of disinterest were
lost. He began to have thoughts of marrying and doing this and that. Maya slapped him just once and
everything was lost. Therefore, the Father now says: This world is the depths of hell and, within this, those
films and the cinema are also depths of hell.SM 27/06/14

This clearly shows how BK Seniors are projecting their Baba for benefits & put several claims answered according to their theories. Like they say here he saw a movie, Maya slapped him, etc shows that they are portraying him as a person committing some sexual mistakes & then coming out of it & becoming God. If you will tell a current BK about sexual abuses going on there in past & that to related to Lekhraj, then they will now see it with the view presented in this Murli.

Just behold how they are fooling everyone by twisting tale repeatedly.
This world is the depths of hell and, within this, those films and the cinema are also depths of hell.

This Earth & hells are separate geographically. Why BK Baba keep on mixing everything or is that some Dadi's view?

warrior

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Re: Revelation of GOD through the Holy-Trinity

Post06 Jul 2014

Save Innocents wrote: Like they say here he saw a movie, Maya slapped him, etc shows that they are portraying him as a person committing some sexual mistakes & then coming out of it & becoming God. If you will tell a current BK about sexual abuses going on there in past & that to related to Lekhraj, then they will now see it with the view presented in this Murli.

You are correct, this is the man that fallen from grace....

Lekhraj.jpg

According to Murli - Supreme Soul can only enter into an impure soul. So it was necessary for this devotee to 'fall from grace'.

As per my understanding, Drama forced him. Until and unless Lekhraj was impure, Supreme Soul could not enter him. The book 'Om Mandli' and the court cases show us how that happened.

Save Innocents

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Re: Revelation of GOD through the Holy-Trinity

Post06 Jul 2014

Very nice, whenever BK commit sins, it is a force of drama & when other do same, see it as their fault.
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ex-l

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Re: Revelation of GOD through the Holy-Trinity

Post06 Jul 2014

warrior wrote:According to Murli ...

That's problematic, is not it? The Murli is only true because the Murli say it is true ... and at least part of the Murli is Lekhraj Kirpalani talking. Therefore, he could be retroactively making up excuses or building explanations for what happened.

The BK world is only a little bubble in the bigger real world - however you describe and define it. Real world laws, effect, limitations etc also apply to the BK world, even if the BKs deny, refuse, ignore or do not understand them.

Spiritual beliefs are largely down to faith. It's nigh impossible to prove them experimentally either one way or disprove them in the other.

Other spiritual traditions would say a pure soul can only enter a pure being and 'like attracts like', e.g. lower or bad spirits are attracted to those of a lower or bad vibration and impurity would repel a higher spirit.
As per my understanding, Drama forced him. Until and unless Lekhraj was impure, Supreme Soul could not enter him ...

I suppose, in this instance, we would have to define the term "drama" to mean something like the consequences of his past actions and motivations rather than a 'something' out there pushing him. But it's a fair criticism to point out how BKs excuse and let themselves and their leader off for indulgences, but criticise or shun others for doing them.

I suppose - within the BK framework - you could have said, until Lekhraj Kirpalani reached his final low point or state of spiritual entropy, their god spirit was not going to enter him. However, the question remains *when* was that?

We still do not know how and when in reality it was that Lekhraj Kirpalani became conscious or started to think that there was another entity within him and define it as they define Shiva Baba now. All we know is it happen sometime around 1956.

So when was Lekhraj Kirpalani's lowest point?

The BKs' minds are so well plugged by the idea it happened in 1936, and their leaders still busy hammering in the plug that says 1936, it is impossible to progress our understanding of this.

warrior

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Re: Revelation of GOD through the Holy-Trinity

Post07 Jul 2014

ex-l wrote:
So when was Lekhraj Kirpalani's lowest point?


When the rain stopped falling over Clifton.
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ex-l

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Re: Revelation of GOD through the Holy-Trinity

Post07 Jul 2014

That's mystical ...

warrior

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Re: Revelation of GOD through the Holy-Trinity

Post08 Jul 2014

Yes, it's so mystical that as soon as I think of it, it starts pouring down. ;)
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