Lekhraj Kirpalani's "cinema is the depths of hell" quote

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ex-l

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Lekhraj Kirpalani's "cinema is the depths of hell" quote

Post27 Jun 2014

warrior wrote: ...today's BK Murli ...

Lekhraj Kirpalani wrote:This one also shares his experience. Even at a very young age, he used to have thoughts of disinterest. He used to say: There is so much sorrow in this world. If only I could get ten thousand rupees, I would then be able to get fifty rupees interest and that would be enough to allow me to remain free. It is very difficult to look after a home and business.

Achcha! Then Baba saw a film called “Saubhagya Sundri" (The fortunate, beautiful woman) and then all the previous thoughts of disinterest were lost. He began to have thoughts of marrying and doing this and that. Maya slapped him just once and everything was lost.

Therefore, the Father now says: This world is the depths of hell and, within this, those films and the cinema are also depths of hell.


SM 27/06/14

Here's an interesting twist, or another anomaly, the 'Saubhagya Sundri' movie was released by the Imperial Film Co in ... 1 Jan 1933.

Lekhraj Kirpalani started his satsang in 1932. He was already 45 and married to his real and old wife, and had had children long beforehand.

Therefore, if he was inspired by watching 'Saubhagya Sundri' ... perhaps his amour related to Om Radhe instead? Was this where "Maya slapped him"? Something does not add up here.

I cannot find an earlier movie called 'Saubhagya Sundri' so the BKs have got it all wrong and mixed up again, but it's another aspect to look into. It appears to be another confused half-truth to work through.

There was, though, a very famous *theatre* version of 'Saubhagya Sundri' in 1901/1902. It's story is loosely based on the Shakespearean tragedy of Othello.

Apparently, every year kings and prices came to Bombay to entertain themselves with silent movies, theatre and dancing girls (... aka prostitutes?). Saubhagya Sundri was so popular amongst the rich crowd that women started to emulate the heroine Sundari and many puritanical moralists complained that it was spoiling the atmosphere of Bombay and leading people to their ruin.

Now we know that Lekhraj Kirpalani was younger than the BKs claim, and born in 1888 rather than 1876, that would mean he was only 12 or 3 when it showed original showed in The Gaiety Theatra of Bombay. However, it came and spent 8 months in Karachi during 1906, when Lekhraj Kirpalani was around 18, and was very popular again.

He would have heard about it then, if not seen it. The theatre producers courted the merchants of the city.

Funnily enough, in the play, the female lead role (Sundari or the Desdemona character) was played by a man - Jayshankar Sundari - as for a women to do so was a great taboo at the time. It made him so famous, he took the character name as his own. Actually, he was an 12 boy when he started the role and would be around 17 when it played in Karachi. He was one year younger than Lekhraj Kirpalani.

Bizarrely, he became the prototype of the idealised Indian woman, whose dress and mannerisms real women then copied.

When the film came out in 1933, the producers had to call upon an Anglo-Iranian Jewess to play the part as, before her, playing cinema heroines was usually assigned to slim young men as it was such a socially-disreputable job that even prostitutes refused to exhibit themselves before the whole country in that way.

Ruby Myers, aka Sulochana, became the face that changed Indian cinema, taking on such a dubious profession to play the role but opening the door for Indian women to then become actresses.

I cannot find the storyline for the India play/movie but in Shakespeare, Desdemona is a beauty who enrages and disappoints her Father, a powerful senator, when she elopes an older man. Her husband is manipulated into believing she is an adulteress and, in the last act, she is murdered by her estranged spouse.

Younger beauty ... older man ... 1933 ... adultery ... it points more to Om Radhe than his real wife but that just conjecture at present until we find out more.

Only sundari means "a beautiful or lovely lady". Saubhagya is lucky or fortunate. Therefore, Lucky Lovely Lady or "Auspicious Young Wife" and not very high art. Again, points to Om Radhe for me.

If anyone know better, or can add more accuracy, please do.

The theatrical transvestite Jayshankar's next famous role was as a gopi (female milkmaid) to a Krishna character full of sexual/mystical in a play called 'Vikram Charita'.

1109012.CINE.ssb.jpg
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As an aside, and I don't know if there is any connection, "Saubhagya Sundari Vrat" is actually a traditional festival for married women who keep it as a fast to get good husband, a happily married life, and to attain the pleasure of children. They perform puja for Lord Shiva and goddess Parvati.

From: Stages of Life: Indian Theatre Autobiographies by Kathryn Hansen and elsewhere.



sulochana.jpg
Sulochana
sulochana.jpg (35.84 KiB) Viewed 12823 times


On dressing up as a female character for the first time, Jayshankar wrote:I saw a beautiful young girl emerging from myself. Whose shapel intoxicating limbs oozed youthful exuberance. In whose form is the fragrance of woman's beauty. From whose eyes feminine feelings keep brimming. In whose gait is expressed the mannerisms of a Gujarati girl. Who is not a man but solely a woman - a woman.

Doesn't sound like a 40 year old wife to me ...

warrior

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Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani's "cinema is the depths of hell" quote

Post29 Jun 2014

ex-l wrote:Lekhraj Kirpalani started his satsang in 1932. He was already 45 and married to his real and old wife, and had had children long beforehand.

Therefore, if he was inspired by watching 'Saubhagya Sundri' ... perhaps his amour related to Om Radhe instead? Was this where "Maya slapped him"? Something does not add up here.

The muli says that : This one also shares his experience. Even at a very young age, he used to have thoughts of disinterest.

It does make sense according to historic research. When Lekhraj reached the age of 18, and got his first big salary to his hand, he wanted to retire already and left Tarachand & Co. He left Calcutta and went back to Sindh Hyderabad and said to his Father that he had enough and did not want to go back.

Kubhchand (Father) convinced him to work a bit longer and gain more experience. Lekhraj follow that and went back with the idea to break away and he did by making a partnership with Shewakram. Shewakram also was not happy the way Tarachand conducted the profits and so he joined Lekhraj. Lekhraj was very happy because he saw in Shewakram a good unity and also freedom. Lekhraj was not struck under someone's wing anymore.

However, it doesn't make sense according to the movie dates as you mentioned but for this there is the ingredient of the unlimited, if you read the whole Murli. Very wisely you have correlated that to Omradhe.

English Murli - 27-06-14.pdf
(26.49 KiB) Downloaded 395 times


Thanks for posting about the movie it's very interesting.

leonard

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Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani's "cinema is the depths of hell" quote

Post29 Jun 2014

Warriorji this is very interesting about Mr Lekraj as young man working for Tarachand + Co. I had not heard this before and is certainly of interest.

Can you tell more and where we can find? Thankyou.
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ex-l

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Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani's "cinema is the depths of hell" quote

Post29 Jun 2014

Possibly he saw the theatre play at 18 ... and married his real wife; and then saw the movie in his 40s ... and took Om Radhe as his younger "Pretty Woman".

Either way, as usual, the version the BKs tell cannot be true and BK followers cannot even recognise that it is not true.

Does that bother them? Seemingly not as long as the fake version serves their business interest.

What point are they making? They are the tricky businessmen selling fake "gemstones".

Either way, Lekhraj Kirpalani would have been aware of both as both were of national news and importance at that time, e.g. Ruby Myers became famous for earning more money than the Governor of Bombay and became the most highly paid actress. It was the talk of the Sind.

But, for me and from a different point of view, weird he was so inspire by a transexual actor.

warrior

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Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani's "cinema is the depths of hell" quote

Post30 Jun 2014

No wonder Lekhraj's private diary of 1932 goes hand in hand with this story. He used to write about the 'ministers' like organs of body that deceived him.

Leonard, there are more details on Tarachand in the red forum(bk-pbk.info) see if you can find it there if not let me know.

leonard

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Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani's "cinema is the depths of hell" quote

Post30 Jun 2014

Yes, warrior I found Tarachand Parsram + Co, and etc. Thank you for courtesy.
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ex-l

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Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani's "cinema is the depths of hell" quote

Post30 Jun 2014

warrior wrote:No wonder Lekhraj's private diary of 1932 goes hand in hand with this story. He used to write about the 'ministers' like organs of body that deceived him.

You posted a picture of his diary in the red forum. Here's one picture here ... I wonder what graphologists would make of his handwriting?

Although I am no expert in this area, he appears to use the Arabic (Islamic?) script rather than the Khudabadi script more typical of merchants (as usual, we have the British to thank for standardising Sindhi as an official language in the 19840s and 50s, prior to which there were numerous different way; Ardhanagari, Saindhu and Malwari Devanagari, and women using Gurmukhi.

By why when the BKs destroyed all old notebooks and materials does this example survive, how many others and what is in it?

Back to cinema for one moment ... the only reference to the movies I can remember, except many of the awful Bollywood songs they used to use to start and end meditation, was Walt Disney's Mickey Mouse. It suggest Lekhraj Kirpalani's consumption was not very high brow and perhaps if he had seen a better class of movie he might not have had such a prejudiced view?

If anyone is able to do any more research into this anomaly, and come to any other conclusions, then I would be grateful to read them.

Lekhraj Kirpalani and Radhi Pokardas Rajwani's relationship obviously went much further than the BKs current admit up to, and was far closer than any BK would - officially - be allowed to have today. Even further than most Indians would consider acceptable for a handsome, wealthy, middle aged man with an attractive teenage or twenty something girl ... even today.

Lekhraj Kirpalani real wife is eclipsed and disappears from the story at this point ... but, one question, how old was the youngest child at this point?

Can anyone translate the diary? It does not look like he is saying very much on each page.

Lekhraj_Kripalani_diary.jpg
Lekhraj Kirpalani's diary

warrior

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Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani's "cinema is the depths of hell" quote

Post30 Jun 2014

ex-l wrote:By why when the BKs destroyed all old notebooks and materials does this example survive, how many others and what is in it?

Yes, good questions. This diary and other things posted on the red forum were part of a private collection of Lachu Dadi. These collection only came on display after Lachu died in 2010, she would not let anyone touch anything before. In 2009 Lachu was invited by a group of double foreign to speak on the items and her story with Dada Lekhraj. So I think that was the first time these items where seen by many.
... appears to use the Arabic (Islamic?)..

Apart from Sindhi, Dada Lekhraj also knew Urdu. Urdu was compulsory in most Indians school before 1947 . Sindhi is very similar to Urdu language and Urdu comes from Arabic.

As you know Muslims ruled India for so long, they brought Persian language to India but the English rulers did not like it because it sounded 'too Islamic'. So the English created Urdu that is a much sweeter language. And Urdu was much easier to learn and speak for the common people of India.
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Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani's "cinema is the depths of hell" quote

Post30 Jun 2014

warrior wrote:This diary and other things posted on the red forum were part of a private collection of Lachu Dadi. These collection only came on display after Lachu died in 2010, she would not let anyone touch anything before. In 2009 Lachu was invited by a group of double foreign to speak on the items and her story with Dada Lekhraj. So I think that was the first time these items where seen by many.

So then the next questions arise ... why would she not let anyone else see or touch them?

a) Despite being a high ranking and "original jewel" ... was she still stuck at a level of selfish sentimental attachment, or
b) Did she want to keep them out of the hands of the current leadership of the BKWSU who would either hide them, destroy them, censor or exploit them incorrectly etc

Lachu was Lekhraj Kirpalani daughter, right?

Shame there were not any sensible heads invited to question her with serious questions.

warrior

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Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani's "cinema is the depths of hell" quote

Post02 Jul 2014

Omshanti,

This was the Dadi who collected all items:

Adi Ratan Dadi Lachhu ji.jpg
Adi Ratan Dadi Lachhu ji.jpg (99.77 KiB) Viewed 12194 times


As per your questions I think answer is a+b, but mainly b. I say that because Lachhu Dadi joined the Om Mandli at age of 5, she was not daughter of Dada Lekhraj but she was very close to him. She was the one that had a room immediately next to Dada Lekhraj's room in Abu. She knew everything what was going on. I have more on her story but perhaps when time permits ...

Here is one more picture of Lachhu's collection:

Brahma Baba's Gita mini book ...

small bhagvat geeta book.jpg
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Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani's "cinema is the depths of hell" quote

Post02 Jul 2014

There is a family resemblance. Many of the Dadis were nieces and cousins etc. It speaks to the clannish nature of the Sindhi culture that so many of the clan looked internally for "mentors" and teachers.
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Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani's "cinema is the depths of hell" quote

Post02 Jul 2014

Pink Panther wrote:There is a family resemblance ...

Yes, I would have put her half way between Lekhraj Kirpalani and Janki Kirpalani.

What was her real name/relationship? All such reports are avidly welcome ...

Mini Gitas are not utterly unique. They used to make the same thing out of Bibles. They were more of a curio and superstitious device rather than to be read.

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Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani's "cinema is the depths of hell" quote

Post02 Jul 2014

ex-l wrote:What was her real name/relationship? All such reports are avidly welcome ...

Of what I remember now, Lachu Dadi joined the Om Mandli along with all her family, mother, Father and grandparents. I will try to find my notes.

Ishu Dadi is Lachu's lokik Sister and also a treasurer of Yagya.
Ishu was just a bit older then Lachu, around 8 years old.

Ishu Dadi.jpg
Ishu Dadi.jpg (10.19 KiB) Viewed 12084 times

In Vani 13/04/11 BapDada said for Ishu Dadi:
You are the one who has known the Father’s secrets from the beginning. Having lived with
Sakar Baba, you have understood, but you remain incognito. It is good to remain incognito, but you
sometimes have to appear and be revealed.

From this statement you can see how close they were to Lekhraj.
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Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani's "cinema is the depths of hell" quote

Post02 Jul 2014

What did she "understand"?

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Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani's "cinema is the depths of hell" quote

Post02 Jul 2014

She understood ... Father’s secrets from the beginning.

There were secrets kept by them and between them. 'I guess' secrets of the time of Hyderabad Sindh and Karachi.

Again here:
To Ishu Dadi: This one is an incognito protector of the Yagya. However, whatever task you do, you maintain confidentiality. BapDada is pleased. It is good.

Vani 15/12/11
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