BK Sam McNally on culture clashes within Brahma Kumarism

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ex-l

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BK Sam McNally on culture clashes within Brahma Kumarism

Post04 Oct 2014

Part of what we have been doing here for years is speaking out openly in public, saying the unsayable for BKs, to inspire and encourage sense in and sensible BKs to be able to speak out also.

To a large extent, the strategy is working.

Many elements within Brahma Kumarism disliked this intensely. In the first place they colluded - right up to Madhuban - to try and suppress or destroy us via unlawful legal action - which failed. And since them the Kirpalani has just pulled up their drawbridge and sat behind their walls ignoring us, our letters, the issues we raise, presumably in the hope that we will just exhaust ourselves, shut up, or die off. Like caste Brahmins we are treated like Untouchables whose very touch makes something impure and intolerable, and when I say "touch" I mean mentally or intellectually ... the mere fact that were are the source of some stimulus or discovery is enough for the caste-mentality BK mock Brahmins to consider it "untouchable", the lowest filth, worthy only of ignoring and avoided, impure - whether it is absolutely right or wrong.

But it's all for the common good and some "progressive" or reforming BKs are speaking out. Sadly, this has happened before over the years and generally experience has taught us they are ignored by the BK elite caste. Sincere, reforming BKs lack the power and wealth the BK elite caste crave and respond to. Ethics or true enlightenment, I would argue, is alien to them. They have usurped the family business and are exploiting to it maximum ... one has to wonder why? Is it merely one big ego trip for them ... playing at the royalty Lekhraj Kirpalani was fixated with, entertaining their own courtiers and employing their own servants? Do they think they are in the Golden - or even Copper Age now with their own kingdoms established?

BKWSU Australia has always enjoy a remoteness from BK India and expressed more of Australia's own culture of informality, independence and self-reliability. Perhaps BKism has developed in a different way there as it has been more free of the domination of hide bound Sindi and Indian culture?

Recently, we have received reports or rubblings in BK King Charles the Hogg's empire, including allegations of an illegal incarceration of an Australian native in Madhuban which you may read more of later ...

In the meanwhile, let's look at long term BK Sam McNally on culture clashes within Brahma Kumarism, in a paper he wrote entitled, A clash of cultures? May 2014. Sam's has copyrighted his work and so we will respect that but you are free to quote from it to critique it. However, we will keep a copy of it in case it is "made to disappear" like so much other analytical discussion. It is, he says, a private and personal account of experiences had in the 1980’s, predominantly in Sydney, Australia and in Rajasthan, India.

I include a short excerpt to promote it. Sam, however, has never contacted or spoken to us nor did the BKs draw it to our attention. I would say that many conservatives within the system would see it as "defamation of Baba" and "disservice" to discuss such things openly.

The Kirpalani Klan like to keep their dirty linen hidden.
There was a large group of us. Early 20's, 30's mainly. Some a little younger, some older. Many of the core group of my own closest friends were of the performing arts persuasion - actors, singers, musicians. Not all, though. Most of us did not know each other before we joined the group, but we certainly felt as though we'd been close for a long time. Some of us did know each other previously.

We joined the meditation group individually. We learnt how to silence the mind, and we learnt most elevated spiritual teachings from India. We believed, and experienced, that those teachings were from God Himself, and there was no doubt about that in our minds. Virtually all of us travelled to the group’s headquarters in India, over many years. Not once or twice but a dozen or more times each. In some cases, many more than that. We met God there, via a human medium (an elderly Indian lady - one of the many senior teachers there).

Faith was a difficult matter. Just as in the world’s official religions, if you had faith, i.e. if you were able to state “yes, I believe” in relation to the fundamental tenets of the philosophy and practices in question, you were in. You were one of the faithful. All good. Trouble would happen, though, if faith wavered or wasn’t stable and strong. The group of people in question here, were all ‘of the faith’. Just where they might be individually situated in that regard today, many years later, I cannot say.

Back then, ones faith was demonstrated by ones willingness to play ball, behaviourally and culturally. See, it’s very attractive to belong to a group of people you like very much, feel good with. It’s natural and normal. One might be of a questioning mind but unwilling to follow up on any doubts, due to the overwhelming desire to belong. So, faith can be a convenient faith, sometimes. Better to belong and go quietly. My faith will come right if I stay on track. Won’t it?
Many of us were selected to be in the "centres", where the meditation and teachings were given to the public. And where we had our own classes. These were mostly live-in places: the meditation teachers would also live there. Economy was one of the many practices. Each centre was autonomous and needed to pay its own way. To be asked to be a live-in centre resident was a very big deal. It carried weighty responsibilities and you were automatically part of an elite group. So, there was often a subtle, very powerful arrogance involved in that role.

The disciplines of the life were rigorous. Separating the men from the boys, that’s for sure. 5.30/6.00 a.m. knowledge class was not an option, if you were serious. But the big one was FOUR a.m. meditation, either alone or collectively. Then, the 5.30 or 6 a.m. class as well. So, by 7 a.m., you'd been active for more than three hours. Every day. No-one ever dared to suggest “this is really hard work!” Or “I can’t do this”.

In India, you’d be upright from 4 until 8.30 a.m. before breakfast, typically. Meditating, and studying knowledge. Vegetarian diet was compulsory, and so was celibacy. No alcohol, no drugs; no smoking was obvious. Fine by me. For some, bathing became a three-times-a-day obsession. 'Cleanliness is next to Godliness' sure got a workout. There were many other, very subtle life- style and behaviour things which would be considered quite extreme by normal people. “How can I possibly fit all these things into my normal day?” I remember asking myself.

This extra-ordinary daily time-table was actually a source of spiritual intoxication, happiness. However, it was incredibly easy to ignore ones physical needs whilst reaching for the stars. Needs like sleep. In recent years, it’s become recognized how deeply important quality sleep is, for health and sanity. It’s not optional, it’s not something you can play with, trivialise.

The zeal and, in most cases, genuine spiritual happiness of those years masked many things, like fear of failure, and shame from things like not waking up, or from "making mistakes", or "causing sorrow". Let alone, the shame of my past life. Imagine living your days trying to not cause sorrow! Nice aspiration. But easy to become obsessed about. It was a matter of shame to be "missing" from gatherings. Were you not serious about this? The pressure to perform was enormous.

Sam raises the issue of how "it escaped discussion that getting up that early, every day, might not be a fabulous idea if you also needed to function in day-light hours" and mentions the possibility of "serious car accidents". This is a reference to the actual death of some BKs by a car accident, back in the 1980s, which is widely considered to have happened to the overtiredness of the BK driver by BKs.

He talks about "impure prides" within BKs, subtle competitions to "out bliss other BKs", the nature of the hierarchy, the power of "bragging rights" of those who followed the disciplines most despite whether they might be the most spiritual, compassionate or intelligent not - the BKs' God wold obviously favour the Marine Corps over any treehugging hippies who stayed up all night and got up late in the morning, and his questions his unwillingness to question.

He likens the environment to Mao “Cultural Revolution” and how the environment actually exaggerated difficult behaviour, a common phenomenon found in "intentional communities", and how having to think about everything created an unnatural, not instinctual way of being.

Sexuality within the Brahma Kumaris, he writes, "was demonized and then trivialized, to make it disappear" and how the requirement was hidden from as he was being enculturated.

Obviously not entirely when we read of the recent alleged male rape and pay off episode in Shantivan.

He admits how, "Sexual and/or intimate relationships happened anyway, on the quiet. For some, at least". It's known that a number of male and female BKs in Australia hooked up with each other; either "having a holiday", as it is euphemistically called in BK, or leaving. Some returning or remaining but living together.

However, it is important to note, this is not truly representative of the whole of BK by any means ... but that it was tolerated or accommodated by Dadi Nirmala ... as long as it did not interfere with her demands of people's times and energies.

He admits, as we have raised for many years, that "curiously, homo-sexuality was never spoken of" making me think that our ripples are spreading out into the BK meme pool and how
One most senior teacher (Indian) barely knew that homo-sexuality existed in the human condition, and so would have had no clue that certain males or females living together (in close quarters, usually) who happened to be gay, or ‘have gay tendencies’, may just fail to find things any easier just because of a same gender policy.

He recommends a 1996 Indian movie called "Fire" was ferociously banned in India and how cinemas were fire-bombed, big protests happened against it - similar to those against the movie "Water" which dealt with Brahmin child prostitution - because it told the story of a lesbian romance between two repressed and suppressed Mumbai women.

I agree with him. It's a good movie and very brave for India.
Sam McNally wrote:Nothing scares priests and politicians more than womens’ sexuality.
ex-l wrote:Nothing scares and envies Brahma Kumaris more than male and especially female sexuality.

Sam talks about the "toxic level of shame" involved in the subject and the ridiculousness of talking to a senior about a problem who had very little experience of precisely the issues you needed help with. "Their purity, by way of NOT having experience of what you wanted help with, would give you what you needed to go beyond your issues. Not expert advice based on actual experience ... It’s not hard to understand how many may have had problems with this. ... They were trivialised ... any aspect of sexuality was regarded as sinful. No greater sin ... no forgiveness in this.
Suicide of the soul. With that kind of noose around your neck, you had little chance of redemption.

He hints at the "profound shock-waves" caused by There were, during this period, a few examples of high visibility relationships that had developed between BKs and the "banishment from the kingdom" and how although apologies were issued years later, "the damage done" (by BKs). He likens it to Sharia Law.
These people were considered impure. They had committed the gravest of errors. "Falling in love" was an unforgivable sin. (Better to fall into hate?!). This stuff made Watergate look small. The real kicker though, was the bad example they had set, for others, which was unspeakably evil. A hundred-fold, a thousand-fold.

To fail in this, was to fail for all time. Game over.
The really big dilemma here is: one might be better off never having come to the spiritual life, than to have done so and failed in this way.

I will leave it there to leave open discussion for others if anyone cares to read it. Sam is still a "BK", or a "serviceable" supportive individual however he voices many of the concerns and ratifies many of the observations we have been making - often to the denial of neo-BKs - for years. I'd say it was all very fair commentary. He even goes as far as to ask, "Was there, is there a relationship with God?" and answers, "This is so profoundly personal, private and inhouse, I can only offer: 'for many, yes; for some, not really, for others, in theory only'."

clearofBK

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Re: BK Sam McNally on culture clashes within Brahma Kumarism

Post04 Oct 2014

Sleep deprivation is a valid point. Most of the surrendered ones take rest during the day but for working class people the schedule is not easy to manage ... and can indeed make them feel tired.

quantum

Re: BK Sam McNally on culture clashes within Brahma Kumarism

Post04 Oct 2014

Please take this post 'lightly' people ... it's real, but funny as, on the subject of homosexuality, I know of a BK Sister who told the Indian Didi in charge of that zone, that she was a Lesbian ... mainly to disclose it, and to see what her 'take on it was'. lol ... the Didi responded by saying; "ohh, you have 'legionnaires disease' ... you can get that from air conditioner!??" ... hahaha ... and "you have to have some treatment" ... well, that was the end of that ... mind you, this was many years ago ... so maybe they are more educated on the subject? ... Then again, maybe not ... may be best to show picture in future ... lol ... hahaha ... yeah, that should do it.
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ex-l

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Re: BK Sam McNally on culture clashes within Brahma Kumarism

Post04 Oct 2014

If someone does not know what a lesbian is, or as in the film 'Fire' they say there is not even a word for lesbianism, how can you recognise perhaps sub-conscious desires and motivations within the self, e.g. virgin celibacy being the only alternative to a repellence from male sexuality?

Of course, if we look at it from a psycho-analytical or Buddhist point if view, lust/libido is just lust/libido and it does not really matter where it is being directed ... however that it is going off in the opposite direction to a need or desire to procreate, one might really need to ask why?

Ditto, how can one advise about such issues to others? How enlightened and wise, or stupid and naive, are you?

Why would you put someone so naive in a position of power and influence over others?

To me that suggests that the BKs are not about "enlightenment", not even collectively, as there is not even any collective study, documentation, research and guidance about such basic stuff.

Save Innocents

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Re: BK Sam McNally on culture clashes within Brahma Kumarism

Post05 Oct 2014

quantum wrote : the Didi responded by saying; "ohh, you have 'legionnaires disease' ..

Ha ha ha :D I think you had good time there enjoying these jokes or more of jokers. legionnaries diseases ...hahaha. and that too from air conditioner haaaahaaahaaa :D What is the disease that can happen to a BK Didi by water cooler or fan???????

If same thing would have been reported by a follower, he might have been banned from centers for a month or weeks depending on their terms, conditions & obviously his financial status. But if a Didi discloses her homosexuality, she is treated like this. Actually behavior of center in charge towards such issues may differ. That Didi would have taken it as a bait if she were also lesbian. But as she might have been straight, she refused & termed it a disease. Also it shows that both of them were quite close, so this senior Didi did not say anything to discourage her. May be because they want free labor & cannot expel their workers just like that.
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ex-l

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Re: BK Sam McNally on culture clashes within Brahma Kumarism

Post05 Oct 2014

If they don't know what women who love women are, and are unaware of all the various varieties of ... e.g. from damaged and abused individuals, to men haters, to pure and simple woman lovers, to individuals who just happen to love another individuals who is of the same sex, to god working in a mysterious way to give love in the only way it can be accepted ... then the movie Sam McNally mentions would be a very good and safe start to educate themselves with.

It's not pornography, it's a very serious 'art movie' and made - just - within sensibilities acceptable to most Indian whilst still be provocative. It also highlights very fair criticisms of the corrupt and abusive patriarchal nature of Hindu society whether it is, on one side, the young son carrying out an illegitimate affair with an exotic mistress; or the "spiritual" father, using the mother to "test" his purity by lying beside him sex and affectionatelessly without any consideration to how she might feel ... and how at the end he is willing to sacrifice her and let her die in the "fire".

It's obviously very symbolic too.

The Brahma Kumaris should watch it and question themselves and their system as, really, all they are doing is aspiring to become the brahmanic, top knot, father figure patriarchal caste. Not really change things.

In the movie, two women trapped in the same alien family by Indian/Hindu culture, find a tiny amount of love, tenderness, and healing affection from each other. Were they "lesbians"? Probably not ... they were just seeking and finding the human love humans need in the only place that was available to them.

You can rent the movie, find it online, or there is a low quality copy here ... conservative male Hindus, of course, reacted by burning down studios/cinemas and rioting it. It's their own form of release!
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Re: BK Sam McNally on culture clashes within Brahma Kumarism

Post05 Oct 2014

It seems BK Sam McNally’s fever has broken and he is on the road to recovery. I enjoyed reading his blog piece but was disappointed when I read the lines that said something like ”not interested in logical analysis of whether it is factually true, too much left brain stuff is tiring ... anyway it works for me”.

OK, this is honest enough but I’d say to BK Sam - isn’t this "tiring” the case when there is a split between what one desires and what the thing really is, or does to you? (or if you prefer, split between heart and head, want and need?). Surely Truth simplifies life, and if ”true spirituality" is an innate part of the human being, then it’s a force for wholeness and integration, not for duality or separation or artificial classifications? Doesn’t that tell you something?

It is tiring and tiresome trying to reconcile the irreconcilable. I remember wasting heaps of time and energy trying to make the nonsensical bits of it all make sense. The Gyan proposes itself as a ”completion” of knowledge but it’s full of holes.

Wanting it to be true because it feels good or "it works for me” is a fool’s errand. And potentially soul destroying as the conscious decision to ‘go with it” is in constant tension with the unconscious (suppressed or ignored) recognition that something is not right here ... Ego is at war with Self.

That’s not to say some of the BK package contains no truisms or has no benefits. But when a belief system proclaims it is complete, supreme, highest knowledge from ultimate authority, these are all mighty big claims. Any glaring examples contradicting these claims requires an *honest* seeker to question the claimed authority of the source of it all and challenge the contractual ”fine print” that says the manufacturer has no responsibility for any faults found, they are the responsibility of the victim who should surrender such discoveries completely to an "authorised service agent".

I say to Sam as I have said to others here - the things you (we) enjoyed about BKs are universals, not exclusive to BKs and can be practiced or found elsewhere. The things that define BKs, distinguish them from all other religions and spiritual groups are the things that lack reconciliation with so many things - humanity with itself, ego with self, known facts with what one is asked to have faith in, history and predictions (that fail), cultural chauvinism that contradicts or denigrates human values, entrenched nepotism and class/wealth discrimination that abuses karma philosophy as its justification, negative discrimination against many good things and people, devaluation of creativity, beauty, curiosity and so much that drives humanity onward.. and "don’t mention the war” (i.e. destruction”) - it’s all become very Basil Fawlty meets 'Days of our Lives' (a comic farce combining with an endless TV soap opera that uses cliffhangers for suspense every episode to keep people coming back).

These days we have BK apologists saying either:
    - ‘the source’ was preparing us for the time when revisionism was necessary;
    - that ”the source” was sorting the wheat from the chaff;
    - that the source was himself confused and not the clear source he claimed to be;
    - that what is presented ‘today’ ( whatever year) is actually what is right (just as it was said back then) - until something else forces it to change its presentation tomorrow.
I’d also say to you Sam (if you are reading this) that any ”esoteric” or deeper wisdom you’ve found, in the Gyan and the meditation practice, comes from you. You are informing the Gyan & meditation, not the other way round. And the insight about the Catholic baggage you brought with you gains a small mention but it’s important, and not unique, and provides a strong clue as to how to move on ...

All the best, and ... G’day, mate!

quantum

Re: BK Sam McNally on culture clashes within Brahma Kumarism

Post05 Oct 2014

lol ... hahahaha SO ... glad you saw the very funny side to that gem! ... and just a further note on the Lesbian topic, the Didi who the BK Sister told ... Is a Doctor?? ... so was it that she actually did not know what the term 'Lesbian' means, which is how i did interpret her response, or did know, but couldn't handle that 'Hot Potato' ... and wanted to avoid it completely, buy quickly coming up with, ohhh, you have Leginnares Disease, and get treatment! ....hahahah ... lol ... the mind boggles??....well,...with all the comfort and luxuries the Didi's & Dadi's enjoy these days ... any number of them could well be 'Infected with Lesbian Disease' ... from their many fans, coolers and air conditioners, from all their solar energy ...

The BK Sister had left Gyan for some time, but wanted to go back to the centre as a 'casual' just for mediation drop ins ... not full on follower as before.

She rang a centre to tell them such, and also wanted to disclose her Lesbian status, mainly to ask; is she supposed to sit with the Brothers ... or still with the Sisters?? ... Well ... this was even more of a shock than the dumb Didi! ... as the centre BK was a young westerner, and said, "NO ... you cannot come to the Centre ... due to being Homo!??"

Wow, such retards ...
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ex-l

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Re: BK Sam McNally on culture clashes within Brahma Kumarism

Post05 Oct 2014

quantum wrote:"NO ... you cannot come to the Centre ... due to being Homo!??"

Wow, such retards ...





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