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Re: Will the Brahma Kumari cult end by 2036?

PostPosted: 19 Oct 2014
by ex-l
Yes, the whole Hindi/Sanskrit thing is another of the BKs paradoxes. They claim that a "very pure form of Hindi" is spoken in Sat Yuga/Heaven and have no explanation why Sanskrit would later emerge from it, to them became Hindi again.

Before the BKs, I started studying Sankrit to read and chant scriptures etc and quite enjoyed it. It's quite easy to learn to begin with as it's quite "phonetical" (easy to sound) and very useful or interesting as it is the root of so many other languages.

Indeed, studying the spread and development of other languages is perhaps an even more powerful but far too intellectually demanding argument of why the BKs cannot be right.

What they do is their typical thing of turning the whole upside down, putting the cart ahead of the horse, and then accusing the rest of the world of being wrong and the ones who are upside down. Yet it is they who are upside down and back to front.

Yes, not just the Murli but also other classes such a Om Radhe's are really quite badly written and spoken. Westerners are *TOTALLY* fooled by this as basically none of us has sufficient Hindi/Sindi/Urdu skills to understand and identify signifiers of class and education, or lack of education, in them. Ask a native and educated Hindi speaker, and what would they make of them?

I think I am right in saying that the classes are not elegant, educated, deep or beautifully composed like other literature and scriptures are. Is this correct?

Lekhraj Kirpalani was not an educated man. He was not noted for his depth of intellect or religious/scriptural knowledge or study. Not even for a love or ability to compose good literature. He was a businessman from a jati/community which is known for putting a very low value on anything that did not directly relate to profit. It's 'cleverness' was invested in making profit and avoid paying taxes. (I mention this specifically because they even developed secret languages to do their business and financial accounts in, hence its recurrence in BKism).
Save Innocents wrote:That's nonsense. Another BK who turns out to be more idiot than all others. Mohini is definitely out of her mind. Is that belief still entertained by BKs?

Yes, they call it "showing respect" to elders not to question or challenge them.

Channelling the Krishna soul is Mohini's party trick. She cannot, or is not allowed to do BapDada, so this is her speciality. She dances about and acts like they think Krishna should and, from memory - can someone correct me here? - speaks in a funny voice too.

This is the little fat Mohini, is not it? The one they call beachball Mohini, instead of "Big Mohini" from New York. They are sort of "reserve" level mediums within the BKWSU ... who knows if they are even medium-ing anything at all!

Re: Will the Brahma Kumari cult end by 2036?

PostPosted: 22 Oct 2014
by Save Innocents
Indeed, studying the spread and development of other languages is perhaps an even more powerful but far too intellectually demanding argument of why the BKs cannot be right.

It has been proved intellectually & through evidences & traditional systems. All these topics itself are mammoth sized research works & what the scientist of this field, a historian or more importantly one who only researches languages variation etc etc says should be considered a proof. We cannot really start from Harappan or Mohanjo daro time period. Everyone should understand that BKism is fake & its preachers have, probably, no mind & will regard the most applauded discovery of past or present as a fake or unnatural or unprovable or anything their crap Murli says. Ask anyone in India (definitely, an educated one) about Hindi or Sanskrit what came first? Answer would be Sanskrit. It's the root & a complete language in itself.

Bkism is madness. After few years when most Indians will start speaking English & use it in daily conversations just like we do here in Hindi now, the Murlis might start getting its first print in English & no doubt then English will be their chosen first language from which Hindi & Sanskrit might be seen emerging in Murlis. That's a BKism nonsense. Who would entertain all such baseless claims?

Similarly, all BKs now start understanding that world is not ending now or then. It will be same by 2036, no change in any human state, no heaven coming, no Golden palaces, then also you will have to earn by working. So, get out of this belief that its ending ever. And understand that BKism can give a short term nourishment needed by your mind but don't be fooled by it. It's not a trailer of an actual movie. It discloses later on as described by many dedicated BKs (perhaps they might be more dedicated to you all, got to know that some were BK teachers too) who are now ex-BKs.

Re: Will the Brahma Kumari cult end by 2036?

PostPosted: 22 Oct 2014
by Save Innocents
They are sort of "reserve" level mediums within the BKWSU ... who knows if they are even medium-ing anything at all!

Till followers keep on believing that channeling, they will carry on & when it will be questioned within the system & outside, it will end. So rise up BKs & question it. Why you cannot channelize Baba, he might make you pure instantly if he is God & then headache of attending daily Murli class will end. Gulzar is taking all that channelizing & money herself by telling & discouraging all BKs that they are impure & cannot take her state. She is treating you all like puppets. If anyone has bit dignity within, go & ask why you cannot channelize one. Why to wait for next life which even they cannot see but force you to believe that they can?

Not to mention there will be halva party on your sudden departure & a message by local Didis would be given. No mention by senior leaders personally (they may it start now). Because it's easy to say that followers are impure & your leader is all pure full of virtues, though you may be the one who is actually virtuous.

It's up to you BKs.

Re: Will the Brahma Kumari cult end by 2036?

PostPosted: 23 Oct 2014
by Affected BK
Will the Brahmakumari cult end by 2036

No ... They will change their form. In India, it is almost impossible to stop and challenge the beliefs of the religious followers.

The only way to make them weaker is to educate more and more people about their historical facts. A parallel group should work day and night for this cause. As ex-I said, they will only get weaker if the supply of incoming money and free labor is stopped. Still a few over smart BKs will take it as a Maya's paper and propagate it as a beggary part repetition and preach people that in the time of crisis one who will serve the institution will get padamguna return in Satyug and few honest BK adherents will fall in their trap again. This way the show will go on.

Some drastic change in the movement is expected after Dadi Gulzar. Just wait and watch ... But it will NOT end by 2036 for sure.

If it ends, imagine the condition of poor uneducated young BK Sister doing all hard work and free labor in the center.

Re: Will the Brahma Kumari cult end by 2036?

PostPosted: 23 Oct 2014
by Pink Panther
When the facts and evidence demand it, science changes. Science progresses by proving its previous understanding is wrong. Those who can prove the past understanding is wrong or mistaken are not criticised as infidels or unbelievers or seen as threats, they are celebrated. Only those who make big claims that are unsubstantiable or contradict the evidence are considered ”cranks”.

Because there is no need for facts or evidence, a religion can change whenever it needs to, adjust the story, incorporate whatever suits it and disregard whatever doesn’t suit it, calling it "limited". It is especially easy when the basis of belief is in an infallible authority, so whenever that infallible authority changes its mind, well, it must be so.

History and events make no demands on belief today, reason and sensibilities are tools of Maya or the devil. We’re talking Popes, Gurus, Babs and Dadas and Dadis and Didis, and other interpreters of ‘scriptures’, and so on. Even ourselves, if we are flakey enough to believe anything we think.

Re: Will the Brahma Kumari cult end by 2036?

PostPosted: 23 Oct 2014
by ex-l
An important and pertinent question to ask the Kirpalani Klan leaders ...

It is only 22 years until 2036 and the start of the Golden Age. Let's imagine that their Baba can wave a magic wand and create a ready made heaven on earth in a second and so there does not need to be any "Creation" time.

Therefore, we have 22 years more - at the most - of speculation, anticipation and doubt to wait for.

Today, many of the 1,000s of of new Kumaris being recruited are in their teens and 20s; therefore, in 22 years they were be in their 40s or 50s ... beyond a marrying age, beyond child bearing, denied of any family, perhaps divided from their own family, or from a BK family who has already donated everything to the BKWSU ... and, of course, many of said families are already donating their daughters to the BKWSU.

There are approximately 35,000 of them ... how are they going to feed and house them? What are they going to tell them? Are they just going to shut down their uneconomical centres like business close factories and chuck the Sisters out on the street to fend off their own karma?

This is an ethical question for all BKs to answer. And hopefully consider a plan to prepare for.

Probability clearly shows, on the basis of previous records, that Destruction will not happen in 2036.

Are all BKs closing their eyes and minds to the very real problems which this raises?

Re: Will the Brahma Kumari cult end by 2036?

PostPosted: 01 Oct 2016
by leonard
Below is part of interview with Sister Denise on a BK online program called 'Seeing Into Being', talking about destruction of BK itself. Is one of a collection of posts on the topic at BK Eric (interviewer) is BK follower in charge Montreal Centre. He is obedient type of Brother.


In her 'Seeing into Being' opening remarks, Denise encouraged us to draw on the mythic and poetic within us, in bringing our own experience of Golden Age to life. It's entirely personal, she said, as well as culturally specific: as in you may be entirely affected by Botticelli's 'Primavera', or it may mean nothing to you.

Then with the directness, lucidity and thoughtfulness for which she is listened to and admired, Denise continued:

" I think we are on the brink of massive collapse and reforming of the Yagya (BKWSU/bkwso). I see it as a phoenix, you know, who dies by fire and then takes rebirth by fire.

I don’t think the process of going from the Iron Age to the Golden Age is a smooth process by any means, and every so often there has to be cataclysmic change. I think in the Yagya (BKWSU/bkwso) from time to time there have been these cataclysmic moments where things shifted from one condition to another condition and I do feel we are on the brink of one of those.So it's about whether you can surf it, whether you have your seat belt on.If you can make yourself ready for it that’s good, but if you’re expecting everything just to carry on the way it is, then when it doesn’t, you’ll get confused. But I think once people (BKs) are aware that something is happening, to survive you will have to be very grounded, very 'in your spirituality'. because when something like this happens if you are clean you can get through.If not maybe you can’t".

BK ERIC LE RESTE (interviewer): "Err ... right. Just before we go can we have a last comment, an idea about how we should be reflecting on the Golden Age ... preparing ourelves?"

"Well, I like the idea of 'transmutation' because that’s huge change: I like cataclysmic change, Where you all of a sudden see clearly and you don't look back. But we're all different .. some move by jumps some move slowly, slowly.

But I also think the way the BK world is setup is itself disappearing into being out of date, you know and I really do think it will reformulate itself.

I mean people are not really aware, because Western people weren't around, that when Dadi Prakashmani took over from Brahma Baba she transformed the Yagya totally and completely. And when we came in we saw what she had done and nobody mentioned much about how she had changed it but she had.Her whole generation is now disappearing..and what is next is not clear - nobody can see clearly- it may not be a smooth transition, but what ever it is will be brilliant and marvellous and innovative, and if we are up for it we can just jump into the new way. Of course, some people may find it unusual or strange, but we need to think about how to make ourselves comfortable with 'deconstruction' of many things, and then there will be a whole new 'construction', and really looking at the essentials of Gyan…"

"..Easy RajYoga is not all that easy you know..".

ERIC: "Well it's certainly fascinating ,and you always have the art of being a little bit dramatic".

Re: Will the Brahma Kumari cult end by 2036?

PostPosted: 01 Oct 2016
by Pink Panther
Sister Denise is basically saying - don’t be surprised if the BKs change as events do not unfold as predicted and the older generation die off.

She is basically saying - don't take the Gyan literally even if the early teachings said they were literal truths without ambiguity.

She is basically saying if you are high in your own "intoxication” (a state removed from reality brought on by a toxic external influence) then you can experience yourself ”transmuting” into the Golden Aged being.

She is basically saying the BK God’s teachings are no to be taken as spoken in the past, but as they will be interpreted in the future so that the BKWSU has a reason for continuing ... in a new form.

Re: Will the Brahma Kumari cult end by 2036?

PostPosted: 01 Oct 2016
by kmanaveen
The older they are getting, feeling death coming closer the more they are feeling a cataclysmic change going to happen ... death can be the same for many including BKs and this analogy of phoenix is another self-assuring fantasy that their whole effort in this cult was not just stupid waste of life.

Wish them sanity!

Re: Will the Brahma Kumari cult end by 2036?

PostPosted: 01 Oct 2016
by ex-l
Denise sold her soul out to them a long time ago ... which is a shame as originally she was one of the more intelligent and insightful ones. But now she's on the payroll and thinking of her old age and retirement.

I agree ... they (the leaders) are parasites, their cult is parasitical on the rest of the societies in which it expands to. And it has developed considerable overheads, including the responsibility for an increasingly aging demographic, i.e. their old leaders and center-in-charges. They must be becoming concerned that their profligate and "total loss" economic model is not going to be bailed out by the End of the World.

Having watched some of her more recent videos, I don't warm to what Denise has become at all. She comes across as cold and very controlling. In my opinion, as with most of the more intelligent Western BKs, she is concerned about the marketing, the facade of BKism and how it looks, rather than its ethics. What does she mean by "surfing" the changes, is it a purely internal state or maintaining or increase position within the BKWSU?

And, yes, like you say kmanaveen ... they must be having to convince themselves their lives and all the rest they invested, were not wasted.

Denise is one of the luckier ones. She's managed to get ... nearly ... into the inner circle. Or at least into Madhuban. There are a load more Western BKs of her generation who have ended up in social housing with a minimum pension with no one to look after them.

Let's see some facts and figures about the state of the BK welfare system ... and some assurances for BKs that their lifetime sacrifices and investments will be rewarded, and not just rewarded on the basis of whim and preferences.

Re: Will the Brahma Kumari cult end by 2036?

PostPosted: 01 Oct 2016
by ex-l
Also, how seriously is Denise or any Westerner really taken by the BK leadership in India?

My feeling is, they are happy to let Westerners waffle on with whatever cosmic ideas Westerners want to keep them distracted/entertained ... happy and submissive ... but business just goes on as usual for them.

Are the accepting of criticism?

Re: Will the Brahma Kumari cult end by 2036?

PostPosted: 02 Oct 2016
by Pink Panther
kmanaveen wrote:The older they are getting, feeling death coming closer the more they are feeling a cataclysmic change going to happen ...
Its called ”projection” or ”transference”. We join the BKs and we project what we have through the lens of BK Gyan.

If we are fearful and insecure, project through the lens of distaste for the world and destruction of all the”bad things”, finding security in the flock. Anything to feel safe.

If we are idealistic, we project through the lens of creating a perfect world via a righteous community and excuse the real world evidence of whats really happening by blaming karma drama etc. Anything to keep floating.

The world, including the subcontinent in the 1930s was in crisis. Poverty and political and civil discontent was rife, Lekhraj was probably going though a mid-life crisis, having achieved materially but needing to fill a hole in his psyche, stitching together what he knew about religion with his feelings, biases, needs and psychological makeup.

If we need a mother or Father figure, we transfer that emotion to Baba or the senior Sisters.

if we need a family & friends, we transfer that emotion to the ”divine family”.
What does [Denise] mean by "surfing" the changes?

She’s showing she’s still hip, even if she may need a hip replacement! Seriously though, I think she unintentionally means - don’t confront the blatant inconsistencies and contradictions, the stupid & cruel stuff that is a hallmark of cults and organised religions, forgetting the past occurrences of all these and the likely future ones, and live in the ignorant bliss of the moment.

Re: Will the Brahma Kumari cult end by 2036?

PostPosted: 02 Oct 2016
by ex-l
Something else that is worth point out is how ideas from elsewhere permeate into the BKWSU only to then come out again as if they were the BKs' own ideas.

It's a funny dynamic because, on face value, the BK leaders suffer from a bad case of NIHS (Not Invented Here Syndrome) essentially denying all external sources of wisdom but, at the same time, they constantly "borrowing" and transforming them slightly to make them look as if they were IH (Invented Here).

The idea of the Yugya going through a Destruction is actually an original idea started by the Prajapita Brahma Kumaris (aka the PBKs), the BKs' archnemeses. A breakaway group started by an outcaste BK follower who failed to swallow orthodox BKism and came up with a more metaphorical interpretation of it.

What Denise is posing is basically what the PBKs have been saying for decades.

Virendra Dev Dixit and the PBKs, for all the 'irritation to' and 'denial from' the BKs they cause, have and do influence BK thinking. It's just they cannot admit the source.

Likewise with us.

Largely, I just think it's showbusiness. "Keeping bums on seats", or in the case of the BKs "keeping bums on carpets". They need some new ideas, not so far away from their old ideas, just to stop the terminal boredom of the Murlis from intellectually destroying their minds.

My advice to any BK hearing Denise and reading this would be ... get it in writing and in specific detail. Don't be caught by the "it's just around the next corner" trap ... "two to three years until Destruction" ... if you do, you'll still be in the same place in 20 years, only old, grey, penniless and childless.
Not invented here (NIH) aka fatal flaw is a stance adopted by social, corporate, or institutional cultures that avoid using or buying already existing products, research, standards, or knowledge because of their external origins and costs.

Not invented here syndrome (NIHS) is a mindset or corporate culture that favors internally-developed products over externally-developed products, even when the external solution is superior.

Believing themselves to be the only pure source of divine wisdom, and that all other source of wisdom are mere partial memorials of themselves and utterly impure, philosophically, the BKs have to deny any external sources ideas as a first position (but, in reality, borrow and steal from any other market pitch that adds value to their own).

Including us.

And, officially, I've heard we are "very impure" ... officially tamopradhan.

Re: Will the Brahma Kumari cult end by 2036?

PostPosted: 03 Oct 2016
by Mr Green
hope they peter out soon

Re: Will the Brahma Kumari cult end by 2036?

PostPosted: 16 Oct 2016
by GuptaRati 6666
I was in Madhuban on January 18, 1977. It was supposed to be the day the world was expected to end and heaven established.

Baap Dada descended on the evening of the above-indicated date and gave us all a discourse on the difference between destruction and transformation. There was a Brother from South America on his way to the USA for veterinary studies. Janki had already directed all Western BK not to pursue any long term projects, including university studies. The South American Brother, listened to the Avyakt Murlis, was given the green light to pursue his veterinary studies and after the intense training in Madhuban, returned to his native country, where he was a mathematics teachers, continued teaching and then went to the USA, and in seven years completed his first degree and his DVM.

During the seven years of his studies, there were some very close calls of the Cold War initiating a nuclear winter due to a WW III.

There was the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, and the Falklands war. Many in the lay public are not aware of the Battle of Guyana, because they have fully accepted the manipulated media accounts of the incidents in Jones Town, Guyana, in November 1978. It is also because many in the lay public have not read: Operation Harvest Moon.

Documents indicate that while the world, including the KGB, was busy with the news of the false flag operation in Jones Town, Allied Special Forces, primarily US Green Berets, infiltrated into the jungles of Guyana, and neutralized Soviet forces controlling nuclear missiles.

The nuclear warheads were then placed in body bags and shipped to the USA.