A flyer about Brahma Baba by BKs with clarifications by PBKs

for discussing revisions in the history of the Brahma Kumaris and updating information about the organisation
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button slammer

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Re: A flyer about Brahma Baba by BKs with clarifications by

Post29 Jan 2016

warrior wrote:Why the guru of PBK is using Murlis of 71, 73, etc... when he says the Murlis are cut and edited by BKs?
Ans why is he saying Om Shanti, I am a peaceful soul and instigating you to go and fight with the BKs?

What a load of rubbish.
Brainwashing recruits around the house be aware!


I think you would find it useful to actually read and study the material before opening your mouth and babbling.

प्रजापपता ब्रह्मा कहते है परंतु बायोग्राफी कुछ नही जानते. ब्रह्मा कहााँ से आया, यह भी कुछ नही जानते. बाप ने समझाया , यह
महारथी है. बहुत जन्मों के अंत मे हमने आधार शलया है. Murli 6/1/1971
“Even though it is said Prajapita Brahma, nobody knows his biography. They don’t know
where did Brahma come from either.
The Father has explained, this one is a mahaarathi
(great warrior). I have taken the support [of his body] at the end of [his] many births.” – Murli
6/1/1971
Same Murli again, when reprinted and circulated….all the above IMPORTANT sentences were removed and
some additions were made
.

प्रजापपता ब्रह्मा कहते है परंतु बयोग्रफी कुछ नही जानते. बाप ने समझाया , यह हमारा रथ है. बहुत जन्मों के अंत मे हमने आधार
शलया है. Murli 9/1/1986
Even though it is said Prajapita Brahma, nobody knows his biography. The Father has
explained, this one is my Chariot. I have taken the support [of his body] at the end of [his]
many births. – Murli 6/1/1971
Ask yourself, how can one remove God’s versions? Is Shrimat being followed? Can children add their
sentences in Murli? Is this not Manmat? Why an attempt is being made to hide the Truth?


As you can see the Murli of 6/1/1971 is different from that of 9/1/1986. This is by the own hand of the BKs. The researchers are pointing out the revisions in the history of the Brahma Kumaris and are updating us with this information, outlining and discussing these anomalies point by point in the flyer review:https://www.scribd.com/doc/296547679/Murli-Proofs
Ans why is he saying Om Shanti, I am a peaceful soul and instigating you to go and fight with the BKs?

Silence is a form of acceptance.
If misrepresentation is taking place then a firm rebuttal should be made in the public domain.
The more I study and compare and contrast the differences between BK a.k.a World Renewal Trust, and that of PBK a.k.a Advance Party and speak the truth about these differences the more peaceful I become.

What a load of rubbish.
Brainwashing recruits around the house be aware!

I have no desire to recruit anyone, conversion is a form of violence. But let the facts be known to all.
Are you liberated? do you pay taxes to a corrupt government? Or are you brainwashed yourself?
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Re: A flyer about Brahma Baba by BKs with clarifications by

Post29 Jan 2016

warrior wrote:this is much better proof:


Is Bashar your new guru now, or is this just some random motivational video selected to show how much you progressed since leaving the BK/PBK world?
Bashar is probably the right choice for you.


https://youtu.be/QmX8QFZsHvk

Please keep the 'proofs' coming....
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Re: A flyer about Brahma Baba by BKs with clarifications by

Post29 Jan 2016

ex-l wrote:

The big problem is what constitutes "proofs" within PBKism, and to a less degree Indian BKism ... although, let's face it, the BKs have pretty much given up any pretence and are just doing whatever they feel like making up by now.

The word "proofs" have come to mean something entirely different, nothing to do with actual proof.

A Murli to quote as proof of a Murli quote is a kind of meaningless circular reasoning ..


As a personality who has an active distaste for Gyan/Murlis it easy to see why you belittle the evidence.

Perhaps see the Murli as a form of a contract complete with terms and conditions. People enter into this contract on the basis that it is true and original, as spoken, as claimed. When the contract is modified without notification without reason then the entire contract unravels and becomes incomprehensible and void. The relationship between the soul and Supreme Soul Supreme Father is nullified by the interference of interlopers . There must be some recourse to the original terms and conditions in their entirety. The fact that discrepancies have been uncovered and that those discrepancies can be proved by comparing to original documents is a complete proof that would stand in a court of law. You have to understand that the World Renewal Trust operates on Trust law which is based on common law. This means there is complete unlimited liability on behalf of the Trustees. There are no statutes to hide behind ie, limited liability. This is the greatest blunder of the BKs to create the World Renewal Trust. No human can accept the unlimited responsibility of the Godly task.
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Re: A flyer about Brahma Baba by BKs with clarifications by

Post29 Jan 2016

Post by Pink Panther » 28 Jan 16

”Proof” is based on something done, something demonstrated. (Latin - provare, probare see ”probe")

'Something done':- Murlis researched, compared, contrasted and presented.
'Something demonstrated':- BKs are making false claims and assumptions based on their literature published and circulated in BK and public domain. Also Murlis are presented in an adulterated form which can be demonstrated by comparing to original Murlis.
According to the definition of 'proof' provided by you the conditions have been met.
A printer's proof is an actual physical demonstration of what a file, image or artwork will look like when the actual printing occurs.

Proof-reading is to catch errors & omissions that can only be found by actually reading every single character as intended, not by mere glancing or skimming.


Clarifications of the Murlis within the Advance Party can be seen as 'proof reading/printers proof is
the Teachers way of clearing mistakes and misconceptions as regards the Murlis and srimat. The loving Father knows children will make mistakes and His duty through the Teacher is to take that responsibility and correct those mistakes through the force of love and law. Every effort is being made to inform the entire Brahmin community as to the real history of the Yagya, and misconceptions within The Knowledge.Souls who are making life changing decisions have a right to be fully informed and cognizant of all developments without hindrance or prejudice and be free from fear of retribution/abandonment.

The Flyer when studied fulfills the criteria as outlined by Pink Panther as per requirements for 'Proof'.

Logical theory has been actualized by observation of the Yagya history and the events and behavior of the various elements within it as described in the Murlis.
In Conclusion:
Writing Murli is a very good service, everyone will be happy, they will give blessings. The
word Baba is very good. Otherwise they will write the word isn’t good. Baba, they send us the
broken pieces of jewel. Our jewels have stolen away. Baba, we have the right: every jewel
that comes out of the mouth [of the Father] should reach us. Only the ones who are unique
will say this. You should do the service of Murlis very well.” Murli 29/03/2002

and
“Since He is the Father, He should definitely meet [the children]. How can He be the Father if
he is just called the Father but never meets [the children]? He meets all the souls of the world.
He fulfills the wishes and desires of all the children.” Murli 14/6/1989 page 1 at the end.

and finally
“The Advance Group, especially the gathering of the special famous souls in it, is very strong. The
wonderful part of preparing the Earth [like intellect] is being played through these souls at a fast pace
to bring about the elevated birth, the first birth (to bring about the divine birth in the form of revelation
of Krishna in the capital Delhi.” (Avyakt Vani of 18.01.80, end of page 222)

OK
AUM
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Re: A flyer about Brahma Baba by BKs with clarifications by

Post29 Jan 2016

Mr Green wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6DN3R54Kp0

please don't be long, please don't you be very long

Something of a curve ball here Mr Green, all I can say is:-

https://youtu.be/p5HhwecdCQw
''twistin' my melon man...'
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Re: A flyer about Brahma Baba by BKs with clarifications by

Post29 Jan 2016

Dear Button,

Whether BK or PBK, nothing has been demonstrated or proven about the veracity of each group’s Gyan, all you have written about is words, arguments between BKs and PBKs about whose unproven and disproven words are truer.

It’s a circular debate that goes nowhere and achieves nothing.

Nothing has been ‘actualised”, demonstrated or proven; other than both organisations reaping donations from their followers.
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Re: A flyer about Brahma Baba by BKs with clarifications by

Post29 Jan 2016

Understanding the Brahma Kumaris require deciphering their language and this use of the word proofs should really come with a © or ™ mark after it.

Like most of BKism, when individuals first hear the word, e.g. god, supreme, the one, the light etc ... they think they are hearing what they already understand by that word and the Brahma Kumari often flatter newcomers a little, allowing them to waffle and deviate 'off script' a little. The early stages of BKism constists of being gently lead and nudge back 'on script', "corrected" until the individual adopts the BK model and vocabulary.

Random quotes picked from pages of Lekhraj Kirpalani's stream of consciousness rabblings are hardly "proof" or anything. At most, I suppose they might be proof of Virendra Dev Dixit's intuitive oracular powers divining some more meaning from Lekhraj Kirpalani's sub-conscious hints or references.

How he jumps from there to claiming to be the new, reborn "original" medium of their god spirit, I have no idea. I don't know if the idea arose in his mind or, as with the BKs, the minds of his followers.

Looking at the history and original material, it that Lekhraj Kirpalani took a somewhat passive position and his followers to add meaning to his ramblings ... and, folks, they really were just stream of consciousness ramblings. Pages and pages of deluded, banal repetition, mostly, with the added spice of one or two external references to individuals and events within the history of the cult or some egotistical tub thumping as he railed against the government or other some religion.

Virendra Dev Dixit may well know of and found a few more clues as to certain events and that happened in the Om Mandli/BKWSU. I would accept that. And, like the rest of us, he was damaged by them too. I beleive that.

But has he not just developed a similar mental illness to that Lekhraj Kirpalani suffered? A sort of delusion of grandeur or god complex?

The bottomline is, he has failed in his prediction, and he has been shown to have large gaps in his knowledge that one might reasonably expect god or god's medium, or a reincarnated illuminati to know too.

Then you have a circle surrounding him in the same way as Lekhraj Kirpalani, including dependent women, had investing themselves into finding, defending and sustaining the New, Improved Meaning™. Largely a circle of damaged BKs, or individuals damaged by the BKs but still stuck with the deep indocrinated.

"Proof" goes further than theory. A proof is when a prediction comes true ... reliably and consistently. When 'A + B = C' time and time and time again whoever does it wherever.

What is a BK or PBKs Proof™ ... 'A + B = whatever we want to this time and forget about all the other times, don't think, don't question, just conform and be happy'?


Soon they will be able to pass all the Murlis through a paper shredder and just pull single lines out and see God in it ... "but you can!!!", they cry. "Was, Baba! Wah Drama!".

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Re: A flyer about Brahma Baba by BKs with clarifications by

Post31 Jan 2016

Pink Panther wrote:Dear Button,

Whether BK or PBK, nothing has been demonstrated or proven about the veracity of each group’s Gyan, all you have written about is words, arguments between BKs and PBKs about whose unproven and disproven words are truer.

It’s a circular debate that goes nowhere and achieves nothing.

Nothing has been "actualised", demonstrated or proven; other than both organisations reaping donations from their followers.

You should bring up some of the points mentioned in the flyer. At the very least, one point mentioned in the flyer is that the BK Murlis are being edited; proof of this is shown in the flyer. This is not 'just words'. It takes action to edit the Murlis, actions are based on will; volition for a desired outcome. Do you think the Murlis are being edited for no reason at all? There is a motivation behind these real life actions that affects the lives of hundreds of thousands of people, this is not 'just words'. It is a systematic plan to deprive souls of their inheritance of purity, peace and happiness directly in this life, face to face from the Supreme Father Supreme Soul, and to enslave those souls under the tyranny of human gurus.
Nothing has been "actualised", demonstrated or proven; other than both organisations reaping donations from their followers

From this statement it is clear you know nothing of the real nature of what is going on here. The very fact that the BKs are hiding salient Murli points and vast swathes of its history is 'actual' enough don't you think? Why should they do this in the first place, what have they got to hide? If there was a clear conscience then why the need for skulduggery?

The flyer gives hints and directions and a way forward to extricate oneself from the miasma surrounding the Brahmin world at present. At least before commenting further go through the flyer. It is no measly ''our Gyan v their Gyan'' face off slanging match that has been presented in the flyer, but a comprehensive overview of the Yagya till date and where it is headed.

https://www.scribd.com/doc/296547679/Murli-Proofs
https://www.scribd.com/doc/296547684/Tr ... ce-English

OK Rinky Dink.
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Re: A flyer about Brahma Baba by BKs with clarifications by

Post31 Jan 2016

ex-l wrote:Understanding the Brahma Kumaris require deciphering their language and this use of the word proofs should really come with a © or ™ mark after it.

Like most of BKism, when individuals first hear the word, e.g. god, supreme, the one, the light etc ... they think they are hearing what they already understand by that word and the Brahma Kuma ... yada, yada ... blah

ex-l, it is clear that the entire basis of your understanding of 'Gyan' is based on the cult of human personality only. On this basis, I hope you would be proud to accept the title of 100% athiest. I guess the mousetrap analogy gave away your Stalinesque prediliction:-
ex-l wrote:I am not at all convinced that PBKism is a better mousetrap than BKism at all.

All it seems to be is the same mousetrap ... but with a stronger spring.

It is very revealing that you contemptuously view spiritual seekers as vermin, and spiritual practice as a form of extermination ... say no more. Who and what you are has become abundantly clear in this age of revelation.
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Re: A flyer about Brahma Baba by BKs with clarifications by

Post31 Jan 2016

You should bring up some of the points mentioned in the flyer. At the very least one point mentioned in the flyer is that the BK Murlis are being edited; proof of this is shown in the flyer.
It is a systematic plan to deprive souls of their inheritance of purity, peace and happiness directly in this life, face to face from the Supreme Father Supreme Soul, and to enslave those souls under the tyranny of human gurus.

"You should bring up some of the points” (words) mentioned in the flyer (collection of words). At the very least one point (words) mentioned in the flyer (collection of words) is that the BK Murlis (collection of words) are being edited (adjusting the words); proof (in this case a logical proof - based on sequences of words, not actual proof) of this is shown in the flyer (collection of words).

Words point to meaning. ”Meaning" is what comes to mind (meanen) when you hear that word.

Even the physical actions you talk about are to do with actions done to words - soul, inheritance, purity, peace, happiness, Supreme Soul, god, etc etc etc - all words with fuzzy edges, terms that have no substance other than what you have come understand them to mean, what you associate with them. That’s why people can believe anything about what such terms ”truly” mean and disagree with anyone else’s definition of them. What they mean implies they have no ”is-ness” other than what i associations they bring to mind.
    Purity - a quality term - pure violence, pure orange juice - nothing to do with morality
    Soul - a kind of music that's very danceable, or an introverted mood (as opposed to ”spirited”, or whatever you choose it to be
    Peace- the absence of conflict, stillness, quiet, depends on context.
    Happiness - enjoying what’s happ- ening
    Supreme - a subjective value judgement. Can your Supreme God do anything without anyone believing he even exists? No.
You may not ”believe" in my hammer, but it'll still hurt you if it hits you. Yes, I have a hammer called ”God”. If I slam yours & anyone’s ‘button’ with my hammer, you and anyone else will all have the same experience and even agree on the experience of ‘God'! You’ll even agree completely on what the associated abstract terms you use ‘means' (hurt, pain ... etc) even if you don't all speak English! If you were a devout Muslim you’d say ”Inshallah”, if you are a BK you might say ”Karma Drama”. Both however would, before articulating anything so definite, yell in pain and cuss!

Same with my bag of sugar I name ”spirituality”. Unlike two members of competing cults deciding what is and is not spiritual, if I put my ”spirituality" into the tea and give some to you or anyone, all will agree my ”spirituality” made it sweeter than before. You see how the metaphor is in this case more substantial than the subject itself?

People feel something emotionally after creating certain conditions which they call ”meditation” and they'll call it ”sweet” - alluding to a definite ‘known’ that all people can understand. But instead of simply enjoying it and leaving it at that, like a lizard on a rock enjoys the sunshine, they have to build a cosmology, a religion, an ashram, a church - based on inadequate understanding - then will only accept what fits their definitions as "spirituality”.

Virendra Dev Dixit or BB or (ahem) Shiva have no supremacy, no authority over anything or anyone, except over those who grant it to them. That’s how Virendra Dev Dixit and BB and the rest of the hierarchies become indispensible, they make everyone believe they are indispensable. Indispensible to what end?

If a person is kind, caring charitable - does it matter if they are theist, atheist, BK or PBK, Muslim or infidel? A person who craves position, validation from others, needs external guidance on how to behave and how to live well, does it matter if they do that through political or religious ideologies or through their careers and society, regardless of if they think they are a point of light in a bag of bones or a temporarily existing wonder of nature?
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Re: A flyer about Brahma Baba by BKs with clarifications by

Post31 Jan 2016

This who thing of being "spiritual" is also just re-marketing for the BKs. First they were the "Divine Ones", then "soul conscious ones", now they are "the spiritual ones". I've seen this in black and white ... their conscious intention to market themselves as "spiritual" (not religious) and as the "source of spirituality".

That's the big con right there and that's what they are trying to do ... there's no monopoly over the source and "spirituality".
button slammer wrote:It is very revealing that you contemptuously view spiritual seekers as vermin, and spiritual practice as a form of extermination ... say no more. Who and what you are has become abundantly clear in this age of revelation.

Well ...

Firstly, you are "mixing metaphors" there ... which is a logical no-no. The "mousetrap" I referred to is "the better idea which would have the world marching to your doorway". I've never referred to "spiritual seekers" as vermin. But, as an aside, I probably don't consider BKs and PBKs as "spiritual seekers" any more.

Strictly speaking they claim to have already "found" and are "now found", am I not right? I thought the whole salespitch was that "Our days of seeking were over". So is that official now ... according to Virendra Dev Dixit ... am I the "Divine Father Stalin", as painted on the picture of The Tree?

I've wondered who they see me as. It would seem drama had it that I was more than a bit part player but I won't accept your manmat. I want it direct from Virendra Dev Dixit.
On this basis, I hope you would be proud to accept the title of 100% athiest.

I don't know ... is that anything different from an atheist?

Apologies for that but I could not help but pull at the rug under your feet. I remember from Bhakti this story of an enlightenment seeker who kept writing letters to a Himalayan guru seeking this and that and the other answers to his question. For years the guru ignored him but eventually the seeker received a reply.

He ran home escatically to open the letter, sure that the guru had sent him some directions the secret path understanding, but when he opened the letter, all it said was ...
    "If you are seeking God, start by sticking the stamps properly and straight in the corner of the envelope".
It sounds like a joke, if that is the level you are at, but actually there is a very deep meaning to it. The big problem I have with your labasting of Pink, and perhaps myself, if that you are using the words "knowledge" and "understanding". The BKs, and PBKs don't teach knowing and knowledge. They teach K-nowledge™ and new, improved, advance K-nowledge™ and most on the level of "acceptance through repetition". That's an entirely different matter ... hypnosis and brainwashing.

As I've often argued against MBhatt ... one cannot "know" or "understand" the K-nowledge™ at all. You cannot understand it becasue there's nothing to understand. No logic, no evidence, no proof, no results, no point. All one can do is accept it, or not.

BKs and PBKs don't "know" their God and -isms are true. They accept it and invest believing in it as true. But it's simply just not ... and it's been demonstrated not to be true, probably ... or even possible ... time and time and time again. True becomes false and false becomes true.

I factually "know" BKism very well. I clearly understand what is going on. I just don't accept it as it is posed. That is the difference. I consider that BKism is something else from what it says it is, and that real "Truth" is something far, far bigger and unlimited that all of Lekhraj Kirpalani's, Virendra Dev Dixit's and all of the rest of their imaginings.

I probably even know better than the vast majority of BKs in fact (that's not ego, just a humble fact). It would seem, within the BK/PBK matrix, I've even had the power and clarity to see through the illusion that they could not and have re-adjusted, if not re-written it's history. Or, you might say, my "needle" was clean enough to be "pulled by the magnet" further than the vast majority to get close to the truth of it all. I hope you recognise the Murli quote in there.

I am sorry mate but I think you sunk your case by getting malicious with your metaphors and misrepresenting me.

I think "spiritual seekers" are great ... it's just that the wise ones amongst them ignore BKism altogether, and the rest of them take a little sip and then quickly reject it.

Those, to me, are the signs of real spiritual seekers.
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Re: A flyer about Brahma Baba by BKs with clarifications by

Post31 Jan 2016

Let me play my cards even further ...

BKs and PBKs aren't at the level of real spiritual seekers yet.

They are at the level of psychic addicts ... psychic pushers ... and psychic vampires.*

To understand which path BKs and PBKs are on, you'd have to adopt a model like the I Ching (link) or Talmudic Sephiroth and realise that they are only just on one little path from 'here' to 'there' mostly, in the case of the BKs, at an entirely materialistic level. For example, lessons in the acquisition of worldly power, and the responsibility of power over others.

Otherwise, it's 99.99% illusion. BKism is not what it says it is. Virendra Dev Dixit is not who he says it is. Nothing is what it seems.

Don't invest in smoke bubble.

* (terms and definitions by agreement only)
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Re: A flyer about Brahma Baba by BKs with clarifications by

Post02 Feb 2016

Pink Panther wrote:"You should bring up some of the points” (words) mentioned in the flyer (collection of words). At the very least one point (words) mentioned in the flyer (collection of words) is that the BK Murlis (collection of words) are being edited (adjusting the words); proof (in this case a logical proof - based on sequences of words, not actual proof) of this is shown in the flyer (collection of words).

Dear Rinky Dink

A passenger has a ticket. Upon inspection the ticket inspector says ''The ticket is incorrect, remove yourself from the train''. It is the last train, and the passenger is stranded. The other passengers with the correct details on the ticket reach the destination.

Here, Murli is the ticket. If the ticket is defective in any way then the destination cannot be reached. This is what the flyer is saying. Irrespective of whether you believe or understand the Murlis to be mere 'collections of words' and irrespective of whether you deem them to be true or false; the fact still remains that Murlis printed and circulated latterly have been edited, subtly at first and most severely in recent times. This is an irrefutable fact. The flyer contains irreducible proof of this.

If I were to distribute copies of any text 'collection of words' and claim that the texts were true and accurate copies, when really they were edited in various ways; anyone with access to the original texts 'collection of words' can prove my copies to be false.' the flyer is proof that the later Murlis are false. Do you think that the Murlis edited themselves? Of course not, that requires human interaction, Thought, will, volition. The tampering of the Murlis is a real life event, the effects of which ripple through the Brahmin community, and the proof of it is in the flyer.

Once we understand that editing has taken place the question arises. Why? In particular which aspects of the Murlis have been redacted? The flyer shows this.
Even the physical actions you talk about are to do with actions done to words - soul, inheritance, purity, peace, happiness, Supreme Soul, god, etc etc etc - all words with fuzzy edges, terms that have no substance other than what you have come understand them to mean, what you associate with them .....

Banking institutes have their own terms and meanings associated with every day words, the same goes for law courts, judicial systems, the sciences, computer programming languages, nations sub-cultures, etc, etc. The same goes for anyone who enters into the Brahmin community. The Brahmin world also has its own unique alokok language which is understood through study and experience, and the sharing and discussion of those experiences within the family/community. Your argument is akin to an English speaker complaining they cannot understand some other foreign language without actually learning the language, through study, practice and real life experiences. Perhaps this is why you condemn alokik terminology as 'fuzzy'.
Purity - a quality term - pure violence, pure orange juice - nothing to do with morality
Soul - a kind of music that's very danceable, or an introverted mood (as opposed to ”spirited”, or whatever you choose it to be

Purity has a very deep meaning. The fact that you separate it from any moral dimension shows your shallow mentality. Entire religions are based on purity. Political ideologies have a pure party line involving a standard relating to moral behaviour. ''Nothing to do with morality'' ?!! In five words you obliterated thousands of years of Religio-Political history and culture..... Purity makes the universe spin.

The purity of the orange juice is in the seed itself.
Supreme - a subjective value judgement. Can your Supreme God do anything without anyone believing he even exists? No.

The Supreme Father Supreme souls acts and speaks to those who have received His introduction. How is anyone recognized? the soul is invisible. Every soul is recognized by what it says and what it does. The SFSSoul acts and speaks in such a way that no-one else can. Obviously He cannot do anything for you unless you recognize Him as no relationship would have been formed. It is through the sense organs that we experience relationships. Introduction to the 'Supreme' and how to establish relationships is given via the flyer. It is not a question of 'belief' which is blind faith, but of recognition, understanding and explaining.
You may not ”believe" in my hammer, but it'll still hurt you if it hits you. Yes, I have a hammer called ”God”. If I slam yours & anyone’s ‘button’ with my hammer, you and anyone else will all have the same experience and even agree on the experience of ‘God'!

As just expressed above. We can recognize any soul by its words and actions. If some personality speaks and acts in a consistent manner in all situations, in which that soul embodies the depth of purity and benevolence in front of any soul without being influenced by either situations or personalities or objects or time; then we can compare and contrast that behaviour to the violent old testament approach of yourself, or any other soul making claims. We can then simply understand that you are a violent sociopath; and to be avoided.
People feel something emotionally after creating certain conditions which they call ”meditation” and they'll call it ”sweet” - alluding to a definite ‘known’ that all people can understand. But instead of simply enjoying it and leaving it at that, like a lizard on a rock enjoys the sunshine, they have to build a cosmology, a religion, an ashram, a church - based on inadequate understanding - then will only accept what fits their definitions as "spirituality”.

Yes, I totally agree with you ... however, in this world what is the degree of safety for our 'sun lovin' lizards'?
they have to build a cosmology

It is not 'they' who will build a cosmology but 'WE'. Based on universal principle of natural order, peace and happiness. This is my aim and objective based on directions (not orders) from the Supreme as I understand that Supreme personality to be.
Veerendra Dev Dixit or BB or (ahem) Shiva have no supremacy, no authority over anything or anyone, except over those who grant it to them. That’s how Veerendra Dev Dixit and BB and the rest of the hierarchies become indispensible, they make everyone believe they are indispensable. Indispensible to what end?

ShivBaba describes Himself as our most obedient servant ... An incorporeal being of luminous loving light and peace. The Ocean of Knowledge and divine virtues, playing a part in front of us directly according to the Murlis as spoken, as predicted, ever present, ever obedient servant, our most humble helper, guide, ever faithful friend, and beloved. There are no hierarchies in Paramdham, all are equal souls. The aim is to bring Paramdham to the corporeal world, to establish heaven on earth. As the King so the subjects, equal in spirit and law, natural law, Gods Law.

So as an animal lover ... 'sun lovin lizards' and in the spirit of communication to the diversity and beauty of nature and our responsibility to the elements as elevated beings blessed with the ability to change our world ...

https://youtu.be/wL--zc1KIxk

https://www.scribd.com/doc/296547679/Murli-Proofs
http://www.PBKs.info/Website%20written% ... 20SHIV.pdf
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Pink Panther

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Re: A flyer about Brahma Baba by BKs with clarifications by

Post02 Feb 2016

A passenger has a ticket. Upon inspection the ticket inspector says ''The ticket is incorrect, remove yourself from the train''. It is the last train, and the passenger is stranded. The other passengers with the correct details on the ticket reach the destination.

A reply has a metaphor. Upon inspection, we can say ”The metaphor is incorrect, because the metaphor of the ticket, train & destination is referring to another's metaphor and not to any reality or substance”. There is no train or destination. You want a metaphor? Stop taking "the blue pill”.
the fact still remains that Murlis printed and circulated latterly have been edited, subtly at first and most severely in recent times. This is an irrefutable fact. The flyer contains irreducible proof of this.

Yes, but your argument is with ”the fact” that an edition of a folk tale has been revised, rather than whether the text of any of these pamphleteers is fiction or non-fiction, decrying a reworking of a favourite old fairy tale. The Disney Corporation does it all the time, also quite profitably.

I think everyone knows the Murlis are edited and changed, huge omissions from the originals (and corrections made whenever the ‘god' made a big booboo of fact). I am as interested in your obsession as I am in the doctrinal differences between presbyterians and lutherans.
The Brahmin world also has its own unique alokok language ... Perhaps this is why you condemn alokik terminology as 'fuzzy'.

You miss the simple point, when the same word can mean anything, it has no reality. Thousands of Gods, names for gods, concepts of god have existed in human history, every believer thinks theirs is the only true god (or set of gods). Maybe they are all correct, and they all take turns being supreme? You cannot disprove anyone’s god, as i cannot disprove yours. You cannot deny others their experiences or consider them as being less valid for them as yours are to you.

There is enough that one can be certain about in life, consensual undeniable truths, to be getting on with to worry about all the fuzzy, totally belief dependant stuff that needs so much energy to keep reinforcing and reaffirming each day.

There are words in Klingon created by the writers of Star Trek, and there are words in Tolkein created by him, for the elven arts, for dwarvish customs, for the origin of Orc. We enter that fantasy world and suspend disbelief for the experience. Some people find a paradigm for life, learn the languages, live accordingly as Trekkies or other OC fans. But there is no Klingon home world, there is no Silmarillion or one ring to rule them all, except as metaphors or allegories, no matter how much ”meaning” and "morals” the stories carry for the fanatic.

People get infatuated with their own current version of the infinitely variable meanings of abstracts , which become totally divorced from the reality they were abstracted from (does ‘sweet' exist separate to the sugar?). They find themselves leaning more and more on their efforts to hold their ”meaning" together.

Listen. Life is actually quite simple.
The purity of the orange juice is in the seed itself.

... and the rest of that passage ...

Some nouns have secondary adjectival and adverbial forms. Flower - noun, Flowery - adjective.
Some adjectives have abstract noun forms. Tall-adjective, Tallness - noun.
One is the primary word, the other secondary permutation used in certain contexts.

I'll blame the education system you went through for your incomprehension of syntax.

The rest of your ”reply” I won't bother responding to, it’s 'pure regurgitation' of the party line.

If you want to convince anyone of the importance of your pamphlet wars, I think you should try another forum. It’s 2016, the 19th century speculations and interpretations of god and the human condition by Lekhraj and the heretic Dev Dixit are as relevant as the speculations and interpretations on phrenology.
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Re: A flyer about Brahma Baba by BKs with clarifications by

Post02 Feb 2016

Button,

You assigned some of Pink's quotes to me. My position and method are somewhat different from his.

I guess my bottomline is ... Lekhraj Kirpalani's life lessons are his, Virendra Dev Dixit's are his ... we should live ours, where were are at, and not get sucked into theirs. Gods, angels and avatars really just don't have any relevence in my life. My life lessons are far more mundane; the bills, the housework, upkeeping my health. I cannot see why any god spirit would find me of any importance whatsoever.

I accept that Lekhraj Kirpalani rose to a high degree of competence as an ordinary human being, far greater than I have, but then I think he lost the plot after dabbling in spiritualism and psychicism after being initiated by the Saddhu in the East of India.

Virendra Dev Dixit and the PBKs have got that chapter *entirely* wrong from a historical point of view.

What on earth does ...
Entire religions are based on purity

... meaning?

I think if you study the real history of pretty much every religion you will actually find they all boil down to the same things; politics, power. money making (or at least food and shelter making), and self-serving intrigue.

I know the BK/PBK theory of fully charged 'soul batteries' (purity) incarnating for the first time etc etc ... I am sorry, I don't buy it.

I think we get sucked into BK/PBKism because, as Pink infers, it make our pitiful, powerless, mundane existences seem more wonderful and heroic. I think the BK community is just a pyramid of exploitation bound together by their second hand hybrid mythology.

Yes, I would agree with many of your practical criticisms of BKism and their deliberate actions. If the PBKs want to do something better, then they should just focus on the here and now practical and become an honest mutual aid society.

Do they really need all this extra mental baggage to do so?
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