A flyer about Brahma Baba by BKs with clarifications by PBKs

for discussing revisions in the history of the Brahma Kumaris and updating information about the organisation
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warrior

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Re: A flyer about Brahma Baba by BKs with clarifications by

Post02 Feb 2016

ex-l wrote:Veerendra Dev Dixit and the PBKs have got that chapter *entirely* wrong from a historical point of view.

Ditto.
button slammer wrote:(Avyakt Vani of 18.01.80, end of page 222)

And that is the proof according to the Advanced Ghost and Spirits ... as per the teaching of Virendra Dev Dixit.
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Re: A flyer about Brahma Baba by BKs with clarifications by

Post03 Feb 2016

Agree. it’s all conjecture and opinion, or let us say ”waffle”.

As soon as you make one undisprovable assertion e.g. ”invisible unicorns” or ”eternal soul” you have to build a complex cosmology for all the questions it raises. The vedantins love it. Pundits, scholars, gurus, acharyas, swamis and teachers (I include the BK & PBK organisations in this) can waffle and extrapolate endlessly, sounding clever, building narratives which affect people looking for "answers".

Until the cows come home, they speculate and rationalise their speculations of other lifetimes, other ”lokas”, ”higher frequencies”, theories of karmic accounts and akashic records, ascended masters - a giant carrot dangling in front of gullible donkeys to distract from the here and now and extract/transfer energy from those donkeys to the cart it is hitched to. All because the ego finds it hard to accept itself as fallible, transient, that one day it will not exist. Soothe the insecure immature ego-child with a story, who spends its energy every day rebuilding the make-believe story world with mental affirmations and ‘rituals’, hoping one day to step through a magic portal to inhabit it ”for real”.

I remember in kindergarten we had a regular time for free play. I remember that for a long time, many weeks, a friend and I would play with wooden blocks, large ones, and each day we wanted to play a particular game in a fantasy where we would build a boat, based on some TV adventure show, and be the characters in that story.

The thing was, every single day, the free time would end before we had finished building the boat, the fort and the rest of our imaginary adventure world. We’d try harder each day to build it quicker so we could actually play out our fantasy game. And we did get quicker from the regular "rehearsals” but we never once got to enter the fantasy world fully to actually play the characters of our game in a completed "set”. We eventually switched to other activities.

Occasionally a "spiritual teacher” will have learnt some variation of what really is primal shamanic techniques and call it ”meditation”, badged as their trademarked technique. They’ll set up a structure to propagate it and sustain themselves physically, and egoistically. Not saying they don’t believe it sincerely, you have to believe it sincerely to be able to enter the ”virtual reality” world.

Play is healthy. Being childlike in play is therapeutic, refreshing, rejuvenating. That is different to being childish or being infantilised, losing one’s autonomy as a free-thinking adult wanting to believe in ‘desirable' speculations.

Mental gymnastics, imagining different "as if” scenarios, can be immensely beneficial, it's why we love movies and stories and role playing for fun (or need it as therapy!). But let’s keep perspective and check the fundament of what’s going on, what is real and what is imaginary, what is actual and what is placebo.

Forget about what people say they are meditating on or believing. What they are really meditating on, what they really believe is revealed in what they create here and now around them. This is many people in the world BTW, not just BKs and their ilk.
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ex-l

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Re: A flyer about Brahma Baba by BKs with clarifications by

Post03 Feb 2016

Personally, I would not say Virendra Dev Dixit was an outright charlatan but, unfortunately, the scale of the anomalies - and his response to them - completely blow his "medium of god" like claims out of the water.

If that's not enough, his claim of being the "permanent Chariot" demonstrate his broken logic ... how can he be the permanent one if Lekhraj Kirpalani was it for decades!?! What I see is both the BKs, the PBKs and other such groups is that - like con artists - they generally use a huge, grandiose, impossible lie to filter out the vulnerable or susceptible and they prey on them.

Just like the Nigerian 419 advance fee fraudsters offering you a cut of $45 million dollars ... if you just send then $10,000 commission.

99.9% of people look at the offer, sniff a rat and sensibly knee-jerk, "too good to be true". Unfortunately, a 0.1% fall for it ... and hypnotised by it like rabbits in the head lights of a car ... and get taken for $10,000s.

BKism is no different (and I was one of those 0.1% suckers, or fools, or naive broken people).

Virendra Dev Dixit and PBKism, whilst he and it could offer a good service weaning people off BKism, seems to still carry it on. Methadone to the BKs' heroin.

What do I think is going on?

Well, if it is "God" it would simply have to be infallible, true and accurate. And it's not. So it's no. No need to go further ... but if "God" is not infallible, true and accurate then I have zero interest in dealing with him. It's hard enough dealing with the part of life you can see, and sue if necessary, never mind relating or fighting with an invisible friend.

What do I think is going on?

I think Virendra Dev Dixit started off as a very sincere God seeking BK like the rest of us ... saw throw the holes ... was very badly hurt and traumatised by his treatment by the BK leadership ... and has since developed some kind of 'induced delusional disorder'.

I'd go further to say that he had some kind of pre-disposition to this *before* BKism, but that his unjust and unrighteous traumatisation by the BK literally drove him a little mentally ill.

I start from the point of view that Lekhraj Kirpalani suffered from some kind of mental illness - not denying a supernatural element to it, e.g. spirit possession or triggered by the saddhu's initation - and that BKism is basically a kind of folie à plusieurs ("madness of many")or shared psychosis. A way of life based on a community of 'structured' women and children (i.e. uneducated, immature, inexperienced etc) forming themselves around a mentally ill centre point (Lekhraj Kirpalani).

I don't think Lekhraj Kirpalani's mental illness was permanent. I think it was episodic. And I think the Om Mandli and consequently the Brahma Kumaris, develop to mask it from society and portray it as divinity. No hard to do in India. In fact, quite common in many unevolved societies. This is based on the events of his family sending him away to draw circles on the wall at their house in Benares and his become like a child, third party reports during his time in Abu of him "zoning out" in the middle of conversations etc, and the extensively dishonest and expansively grandiose proclamations and claims he and they made.

Virendra Dev Dixit then came along and "did such Yoga" (in BK terms) on Lekhraj Kirpalani and Lekhraj Kirpalani's stream of consciousness ramblings, that he literally re-formed his mind according to them. The combination of the all absorbing focus, the trauma and no doubt inner feelings of anger/resentment/frustration etc at the stupid but dominant BK leaders (he was outcast by Kumarka Dadi who was a bit of a bull BK) literally drove him over the top to become better than them and their god or god medium.

That does not mean Virendra Dev Dixit is not intelligent and does not know the K-nowledge™ better than the BKs. I think he is and I think he does. But that does not make him god.

Whether consciously or sub-consciously ... I'll pressume the latter ... he appears to be mirroring or replicating Lekhraj Kirpalani's patterns. Not seeing the cause, he - and then his followers - interprets this effect as the "proof" or evidence but really it's no big thing.

And those that are attracted to follow him, are just those who have been hurt or disaffected in a similar manner by the same BKs.

He explains all this is BK terms because he must in order to sustain the shared delusion, e.g. the "Muslim element" invading pure BK India and taking it over etc, and it is the language of the community. He does so because, in many case e.g. the young girls or the now old uneducated ladies, it is the only language - and the only world - they know.

I am not saying this is all necessarily consciously let alone cynically done. I doubt that it is. I suspect much is happening all on a sub-conscious level ... but how much are his primal needs for food, shelter, sex and power coming into play?

If these are things anyone else is willing to consider, I'd like to explore them further. But, in the meanwhile, the best response anyone should have is just to demand firm real world proof of divinity before dedicating one's life to someone else's psychosis.

After all, dedicating one's life to someone else's psychosis is only a massive procrastination ... of escaping from one's own neuroses and psychoses.
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Re: A flyer about Brahma Baba by BKs with clarifications by

Post03 Feb 2016

From the strictly dubious Wikipedia ... but in this case a far summary.
Folie imposée is where a dominant person (known as the 'primary', 'inducer' or 'principal') initially forms a delusional belief during a psychotic episode and imposes it on another person or persons (known as the 'secondary', 'acceptor' or 'associate') with the assumption that the secondary person might not have become deluded if left to his or her own devices.

If the parties are admitted to hospital separately, then the delusions in the person with the induced beliefs usually resolve without the need of medication.

An basic appreciation of the place and treatment (or lack thereof) of mental illness in India is helpful.

We know now, without any doubt, that Lekhraj Kirpalani did and was having intensely grandiose "delusional beliefs" for the first 20 odd years ... *even* by BK definitions. That is to say, his whole "Prajapati God Brahma" phase and believing that WWII was a manifestation of his conflict with the Muhki and the Bhaibund community.

Lekhraj Kirpalani would be the 'primary inducer', Om Radhe the 'secondary 'acceptor' and everything else spun off from that. Virendra Dev Dixit takes it to another as he never actually met Lekhraj Kirpalani. He managed to induce the state of mind fairly "authentically" purely from the writings ... in a kind of self-radicalisation or self-brainwashing.

Actually, I think many BKs do ... they find themselves sucked in and playing out Om Mandli like dramas simply from reading fictional material like Adi Dev etc.

From elsewhere ... I am sorry to challenge you Button, but how would you respond to this? Do you see how there could possibly be correlations?
Shared Delusional Disorder is a delusional disorder shared by two or more people with close emotional links. The dominant person in this relationship has Delusional Disorder and convinces the nondominant person to adopt these delusional beliefs.

Hallucinations, if present, are not prominent and are related to the delusional theme. This disorder is unlike Schizophrenia in that the individual has never had: (1) prominent hallucinations, (2) disorganized speech, (3) grossly disorganized or catatonic behavior, (4) negative symptoms (i.e., diminished emotional expression or avolition). If there are manic or depressive episodes, the total duration of all mood episodes must be brief relative to the total duration of the delusions. This disorder is not due to the effects of a drug, medication, or other medical condition. This disorder's delusions are not widely accepted beliefs in the individual's culture.

WARNING: When initially interviewed, people with this disorder appear normal until the topic of their delusion is discussed. For example, members of fanatical religious or political cults appear entirely normal until they discuss their delusional beliefs.

Prevalence

Shared Delusional Disorder is rarely seen (except for fanatical religious or political cults where it is extremely common).

I am far from being a psychiatric professional ... however, such diagnoses would have to lead one to wonder if Lekhraj Kirpalani actually was suffering from a schizophrenic condition rather than spirit possession ... especially as he was not aware of the spirit possessing him for 20 odd years.

He did actually suffer from prominent hallucinations (which were falsely interpreted), disorganized speech, grossly disorganized or catatonic behavior, and negative symptoms.
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Re: A flyer about Brahma Baba by BKs with clarifications by

Post04 Feb 2016

Mr Button, I have read your version of BK story, dating back to before new Om Mandli documents found. Please visit http://www.brahmakumarisresearch.org and http://www.moreaboutbrahmakumaris.org to find original documentation with easy access. Also on this .info site as you will have read no mention of Shiva till mid/late 1950s indicated as per documents found recently.
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Re: A flyer about Brahma Baba by BKs with clarifications by

Post04 Feb 2016

A good summary in those last two posts ex-l.

I would like to add, to my point of view and I believe yours, that at no time is the term ”mental illness” or ”delusion” meant as an insult or a put-down. It is only a "relative” description.

Any value judgement to the negative is 'social prejudice' which many people are fighting in modern societies today, to treat any such conditions as no different to infections or other physiological diseases which affect behaviours and abilities. In many traditional societies, those we’d call mentally ill were honoured as "special", as having insights that the rest lacked. I would not be surprised if what happens in Hindu traditions is not an evolution of this.

In fact, we can easily say we all sit somewhere on the spectrum of mental illness or delusion, it’s just that the ”bell curve” of what is considered acceptable or normal is based on a consensual, objective view of reality by the society of the time.

It is ”possible” that a so-called delusional minority, of a few or even of one, can have a more accurate view of the world than the majority.

I have always asked myself whether someone who (as far as humanly possible) is free of delusion or any mental incapacity would bother with developing ”teachings" or with setting up a church of followers, and wouldn’t just be getting on with life in a simple, content and satisfied way.
    In Tibetan Buddhism, debate is a major component. The best debaters have to be able to argue from any position - like a good lawyer. There is a Tibetan Buddhist story - actual historical record.

    One master of the Gelugpa tradition (yellow hats - the Dalai Lama’s mob), whose name escapes me today, was invincible in debate, famous for having argued at one gathering over six days from a different position each day and winning each time, obviously even winning with arguments for positions he had argued against previously.

    This master went on retreat to the farming lands to spend time in solitude. He is reported to have said something like, for all my years of meditation, studies, philosophy and debating, for all my (tantric) mastery, I see these people (the peasant farmers) "get it” and I do not.
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Re: A flyer about Brahma Baba by BKs with clarifications by

Post04 Feb 2016

Very well said Mr PP
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ex-l

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Re: A flyer about Brahma Baba by BKs with clarifications by

Post04 Feb 2016

Pink Panther wrote:I would like to add, to my point of view and I believe yours, that at no time is the term ”mental illness” or ”delusion” meant as an insult or a put-down. It is only a "relative” description.

Of course ... as long as it is not harmful or damaging to others, and exploited by said individual.

From that diagnosis, I pick out to key elements specific to us; "people with close emotional links" and "occuring where delusions are not widely accepted beliefs in the individual's culture". Those, to me, are the slam dunks. We are talking about a very close and closeted community, the 1930s Bhaibunds. All the BKs were very closely interrelated, and their knowledge and understanding of mental illness, we can assume, was almost zero. As you say, the line between 'religiosity' and such mental illness was broadly blurred.

If you break mental illness down to a simple division, you have stuff caused by biology, stuff cause by events and, in our case, stuff caused by influences beyond scientific understanding (aka "spiritual experiences").

It's a shame the head Brahma Kumaris were so submissive and immature (literally, they were just girls) at the time and would obviously not have a clue what kind of milieu they were growing up within. None of them thought to question and how could they question ... they were in the presence of "God" Himself.

The interesting questions would be what was happening to Lekhraj Kirpalani *before* his seeking and revelation?

With Virendra Dev Dixit it is easier as he is still alive ... but I'll guess he has many defensive responses prepared to avoid such questioning. I feel compassionate towards him because I can imagine how traumatic being outcast was for a sincere BK in the 1970s. Doubly so as it was an insult to his insights and intelligence, and in order to defend layers of lies and stupidities on the BKs' behalf. Life, at it foundation, is a question of being part of the in crowd, or being an outcast; and for a very long part of our existence, being an outcast means death hence, I suggest partly, why we respond so deeply to rejection. (In India, outcasting is one of the worst punishments ... in Virendra Dev Dixit's case, for being largely right in the beginning).

I know how I feel at being punished when I am right too. He must have been traumatised by it.

It's very widely evidenced how some spiritual practises can bring on mental breakdowns; I am thinking of cases from "Kundalini" exercises, to Westerners adopting Tibetan Buddhism, or even BKism ... let alone opening the cans of worms that spiritualism and possession are.

Why did Lekhraj Kirpalani go seeking and what happened to him during that initiation? I wish we could identify the sadhu and the practise or spirit relationship he was initiated into.

Relating to that, the traditional PBK version of events - and Virendra Dev Dixit's intellectual integrity I am afraid to say - crumbles to pieces given the new historical evidence we have (and his response to them). I think there are other clues to look at ... in the letter where Lekhraj Kirpalani's partner (note PBKs believe the partner is the "Sadhu of the East" but, in reality, we find the partner as a leading member of the Anti-Party) writes Lekhraj Kirpalani "was not a moral man". We know he was unhappy in or about marriage. The terms "brothels" and "prostitutes" are bizarrely prominent in his religious imaginations (ie in the Murlis). Did he act in a manner that he later deeply regretted, e.g. Calcutta was the centre of prostitution and the courts he attended were full of courtesans, and then swing to the other extreme and "go religious"?

Lekhraj Kirpalani never really seemed to reconcile things with his wife but dumped her took a new, younger spiritual one for eternity; Om Radhe.

Again, from the evidence, it's clear Lekhraj Kirpalani took liberties with the girls that were unacceptable to society and then flip flipped again to adopt a total celibacy after being forced to separate from the girls by the court. It's frustrating that in their ambitions to portray him as an archetypal saint that the BKs have erased all the real history and are in denial about it ... and you see the same with the PBKs anytime anyone asks about Virendra Dev Dixit having sex with the original PBKs women (which I believe is the root of the BKs and Vishnu Party's real ire about him).

Again, I am not accusing or condemning Virendra Dev Dixit ... I am suggest that his "Yoga" on Lekhraj Kirpalani was so great that sub-consciously he has become a Lekhraj Kirpalani. I don't think it a conscious exploitation of the BK community for the sake of business or unkeeping his welfare, I think it is some kind of very deep and sub-conscious mirroring, seeing significances everywhere, which is typical of some mental illnesses.

How long is he going to go on milking the Brahma Kumaris millenarianism?

Ditto, how long is society going to allow the BKs to milk it too?

There are ... sadly ... no moral police force policing religions so it's down to us to hold them to something.

Button, and other beleivers, when exactly are you going to finally accept that Destruction and Creation as per the BKs has not happened and is not going to happen? When are you going to give up? 2016 ... 2036 ... or are you ready to re-write the predictions yet again?

It's time for both parties to "put up or shut up".

And, please, not encourage others into your reality warp in the meanwhile?
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ex-l

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Re: A flyer about Brahma Baba by BKs with clarifications by

Post04 Feb 2016

As a side note ... poor diet also leads to brain changes; from mood and concentration issues, to life long impairment or stunted development.

It's a very common problem, especially in India, and something those of us on limited diets need to be conscious off.

'Vacantness' is one symptom ... I am wonder if 'hard headed obstinacy' is another. It's very common amongst many the BKs I have encountered!

And, no, I am not holding myself up as a paragon of perfection ... far from it. I worry about my own. You cannot Om your way to a pefect soul, and even if you could ... you need to feed your brain so that "perfect" can translate itself into manifestation.
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button slammer

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Re: A flyer about Brahma Baba by BKs with clarifications by

Post04 Feb 2016

button slammer wrote:It is very revealing that you contemptuously view spiritual seekers as vermin, and spiritual practice as a form of extermination ... say no more. Who and what you are has become abundantly clear in this age of revelation.
ex-l wrote:Well ...

Firstly, you are "mixing metaphors" there ... which is a logical no-no. The "mousetrap" I referred to is "the better idea which would have the world marching to your doorway". I've never referred to "spiritual seekers" as vermin. But, as an aside, I probably don't consider BKs and PBKs as "spiritual seekers" any more.

There is no 'mixing of metaphors' here from my side. The hidden message in your own chosen metaphor becomes totally obvious once brought to attention, especially when read in context of this BK.disinfo site. Your own psychological pathology is visible for all to see.
ex-l wrote: So is that official now ... according to Veerendra Dev Dixit ... am I the "Divine Father Stalin", as painted on the picture of The Tree? I've wondered who they see me as. It would seem drama had it that I was more than a bit part player but I won't accept your manmat. I want it direct from Veerendra Dev Dixit.

Hardly on the same level as Stalin, more the garden flower variety sociopath. Athiest religion comes at the end of the Kalpa, neither do they recognize the soul or the Supreme Soul, so why should you be seen as anything more than a bit player in the Drama? As I mentioned in a previous post we are recognized by what we say and do. Did you not round up the Royal intellectual souls who wished to meet on some previous incarnation of this forum, and banish them to some gulag so you could concentrate on your BK pogrom? The atheist souls believe the body/five elements is all there is to life. They give no importance to the soul.

In a similar way you are concentrating your pathology onto the Destruction of the earth like intellect of the Dadis, Didis and Dadas, the Kanyas and the Matas. Any article of information you can use against them you do so, using the information as a weapon of destruction. These small bombs of destruction are somewhat puny and insignificant in terms of the Drama at large, similar to vicious nail bombings by subversive factions trying to bring attention to their cause.

Whatever (dis)info is posted here in in the form of lurid tabloid sensationalism, and hardly give any real insightful understanding as to the nature of these events. Any discussion that puts any BK/PBK event in a positive light is summarily discouraged and quashed. A brief perusal of the flyer can reveal more in two pages as to the real nature as to the Confluence Age Drama than the sum total of this (dis)-info site.
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Re: A flyer about Brahma Baba by BKs with clarifications by

Post04 Feb 2016

button slammer wrote:Did you not round up the Royal intellectual souls who wished to meet on some previous incarnation of this forum, and banish them to some gulag so you could concentrate on your BK pogrom? The atheist souls believe the body/five elements is all there is to life.

Well, that counts me out as I've always argued there is more to life than just the material. Indeed, I've even strong disagreed over this and stood my ground with Pink Panther.

If you want to argue Lekhraj Kirpalani and Virendra Dev Dixit were possessed by spirits, I'll accept that. I'll just disagree they were "God".

Here are the facts ... The PBKs - you included - were offer the chance to run their own forum starting with a complete and identical copy to this one to which everyone had access.

None of you, or them, came forward to do so. None of them wanted to do the work.

Obviously, our little "Royal" darlings expect to have servants running around after them doing all the hard work.

On the internet there are no "gulags" ... every website has the same sized front door on Main Street.

At the time, I could no longer afford to do the work to support the BKs and PBKs and Vishnu Party arguing without each other and cleaning up after them. Why should I? They don't pay me to do so? They contributed nothing. It was putting off ex-BKs and exiting BKs, so the forum was forked.

If you want to start a pro-PBK forum, I will make you the same offer ... but why on earth should I pay and work to support it?

I am sorry but there is no way you limit my findings and analysis to "lurid tabloid sensationalism". For sure, I publish all the dirty, and the pictures too, if you give me them but we go far beyond that.

Let's start with the facts, how many kunyas exactly did Virendra Dev Dixit put his penis into? (Confirmed to me by a PBK).

You're just coming across as nasty and angry that I am pulling back the veil to see what lies behind it.
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Re: A flyer about Brahma Baba by BKs with clarifications by

Post04 Feb 2016

ex-l wrote:On this basis, I hope you would be proud to accept the title of 100% athiest. I don't know ... is that anything different from an atheist?

Some atheists whilst being perceived by the world to be 100% atheist, actually leave a small percentage open to doubt. Such is the case of Richard Dawkins who describes himself as 6.9 atheist on a scale of totally theist at 1 to totally atheist at 7. That is in matters relating to the lokik.

Here everything is related to the Confluence Age Brahmins and their beliefs and understanding. Unless I am completely mistaken, you have consistently claimed the Brahmins to be 'non-spiritual seekers' (vermin) their scriptures/Murlis/knowledge as garbage, and their teachers as frauds. That would I think qualify you as 100% atheist, without the need for verification by Virendra Dev Dixit who is probably unaware of your existance. Especially also as you've had years of contact with the PBKs and are fully cognizant of their point of view as well as that of the BKs. PBKs BTW, who have at various times assisted you in research, and given testimonials to give support to this site when it was under pressure to close; and given you insights into the Yagya you would never have realized by yourself. It is a wonder how when you've benefited so much from the PBK input you turn out to belittle and demean those who helped you. This I suppose is just your narcissistic sociopathy revealing itself.
ex-l wrote: I remember from Bhakti this story of an enlightenment seeker who kept writing letters to a Himalayan guru seeking this and that and the other answers to his question. For years the guru ignored him but eventually the seeker received a reply.
He ran home escatically to open the letter, sure that the guru had sent him some directions the secret path understanding, but when he opened the letter, all it said was ...
"If you are seeking God, start by sticking the stamps properly and straight in the corner of the envelope".

To get more information about God’s unique plan for world renewal please contact:
Adhyatmik Ishwariya Vishwa Vidyalaya
H.No.351/352, Block-A, Phase-1, Vijayvihar,
Rithala, Near Rohini Sector-5,
Delhi-110085, Phone No.011-27044227, 09891370007
These days we can telephone, and use e-mails to contact ShivBaba....
ex-l wrote:As I've often argued against MBhatt ... one cannot "know" or "understand" the K-nowledge™ at all. You cannot understand it becasue there's nothing to understand. No logic, no evidence, no proof, no results, no point. All one can do is accept it, or not.
No-one is being asked to accept anything on the basis of blind faith. RajYoga is a self-realization course. We are free to realize it as much or as little as one desires.
ex-l wrote: It would seem, within the BK/PBK matrix, I've even had the power and clarity to see through the illusion that they could not and have re-adjusted, if not re-written it's history. Or, you might say, my "needle" was clean enough to be "pulled by the magnet" further than the vast majority to get close to the truth of it all. I hope you recognise the Murli quote in there.

Well it turns out a large percentage of your historical rewritting is based on research by the PBKs, so who in reality is rewriting the history? 'The 'Magnet' is very diplomatic, and has a sense of humour. It is just your leg that was being pulled.....nothing more. What more could there possibly be when it doesnt exist?
https://www.scribd.com/doc/296547679/Murli-Proofs
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ex-l

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Re: A flyer about Brahma Baba by BKs with clarifications by

Post05 Feb 2016

I repeat the same offer to you.

If you want to run a forum for the PBKs, I will give you a complete copy of this forum - including all the original PBK forum - for you start with (you can delete everything you don't want). But I won't run it for you. It will cost you about £60 a year to run, plus your time.

This forum is for ex-BKs or those who want to exit the BKWSU (PBKs included).

I think you're crossing the line by twisting my words, and repeating it after correction, thereby demonstrating your own coarse sanskars or mentality ... exaggerating valid criticism of BKism to encompass all spiritual seekers.

The BKs and PBKs don't teach Raj Yoga. They teach their own novel concotion. Is it "self-realisation"? Only if you accept their concepts of self. Is it realisation, or acceptance? Some BKs might have been spiritual seekers to begin with. I was. But one is fairly quickly coerced to give up all further seeking, and questioning, and just obediently accept. Acceptance, unquestioning acceptance of what Lekhraj Kirpalani or now Virendra Dev Dixit spouts.

Is it even a complete "spiritual" system?

Both "Raj Yoga" and "Self-Realisation" are just loaded marketing devices they have stolen from other religions, and given their own unique twist.

It is not at all true to say that what I discovered was based on research by the PBKs. I found it myself by doing nothing more than going down the British Library, and much of what I found contradicts PBKism too. I heard you had a hard time coping with that.

As for Virendra Dev Dixit and his pecker. What I was literally told is that he had sex with a large number of the original PBK Sisters - I forget the actual number - and that he got none of them pregnant was proof he was God.

May be he is just impotent? May be he is just a good cocksman? Could I have done it during my sexual prime? Probably, and I am not god either. I don't actually condemn him for it. Good luck to him as long as it was not coercive ... and I hope the women enjoyed it too. I think all Brahma Kumaris ought to have at least one good experience in bed so as they know what they are talking about when it comes to sex.

For many, sex is a spiritual experience too.

But, unless it can be freely and openly discussed, it does raise questions about his and the PBKs enlightenment and divinity.

To my knowledge, only one PBK offered the support of one letter (I was not in charge of that), that does not pay for the years of support we offered them. I have come to learn a little about PBKism but that is all it is ... PBKism not "insight". I think of "insights" as understanding the cultural, sociological and psychological background to the goings on.

I get on fine with a couple of PBKs/ex-PBKs I respect for either their personal conduct or practical efforts, but I don't find the majority of PBKs to be any more "straight shooters" than BKs. They are just all part of a dysfunctional family centred around equally deluded fathers.
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button slammer

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Re: A flyer about Brahma Baba by BKs with clarifications by

Post06 Feb 2016

ex-l wrote:I repeat the same offer to you.

If you want to run a forum for the PBKs, I will give you a complete copy of this forum - including all the original PBK forum - for you start with (you can delete everything you don't want). But I won't run it for you. It will cost you about £60 a year to run, plus your time.

Very Good, kindly send more details via pm.

In the meantime, I'll address some of the points raised for a few days ...
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Pink Panther

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Re: A flyer about Brahma Baba by BKs with clarifications by

Post06 Feb 2016

For Button Slammer
ORDINARY ANGELS - FRENTE
Sometimes a mirror's a miracle
Sometimes it's nothing at all.
In its reflection even angels fall.

You could fly anytime
(Even though you own your own comet)

Ordinary people, it's okay
You don't have to wear those wings
They're stupid things.

I know some dizzy, easy heights.
Don't stop your life at the lights.
Don't be smart, be a beginner.
Don't be wrong, even when it's right.

Ordinary people, it's okay
We're not watching anyway
It's okay

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