Orlando 2016: Brahma Kumaris and Homosexuality

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ex-l

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Orlando 2016: Brahma Kumaris and Homosexuality

Post13 Jun 2016

Friend wrote:I do hope she, or Maureen, will give a message about Orlando, because, as irrelevant as it might be to Gyan, they have somehow forgotten LGBT people exist.

I was not sure what you meant by "Orlando" until I checked the news ... 50 people killed and and 53 wounded by an American born Muslim/mentally ill person at the "hottest gay nightclub in Orlando".

I think the BKs should stick clear of stuff like that, especially when their philosophy really says, "it's their bad karma".

I do not stick clear of homosexuality which, you are right, is a gaping black hole as far as BKism goes but the exploition of others' tragedy who they have no connection with and are, potentially, targetting them when in a vulnerable state.

Which is arguably what they do with their disaster crews.

Jayanti reminds me of a politician who is walking ahead of the flock (their public), looking over their shoulder trying to interpret which way the flock is moving ... in order to keep up the facade of being its leader. I remember when she used to noticably put down all the good stuff.

Gay issues ... weighing in on the Muslim/ISIS ... whew.
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ex-l

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Re: Orlando 2016: Brahma Kumaris and Homosexuality

Post13 Jun 2016

I was thinking about this today after reading the news.

I don't think targetting homosexuals would work for BKs. I mean, there always have been a few gay BKs, most closeted care of the celibacy thing and no one knows how many of the Indian Sisters are dykes. But I think gay culture, at least in the West, is far too open, stridden and self-confident for the BKs to work with.

It would shatter their same sex segregation thing ... I mean, which bhavans in Madhuban would they use!?! But I'd love to hear of how they deal transgender yogis.

The BKs philosophy is, without doubt, "heteronormative" as I believe it is called, i.e. it's definitely Lakshmi and Narayan, not Narayan and Narayan in the Golden Age. I suspect that until they came to the West, they had a Victorian view of it (the story goes there was no laws in England against lesbians because Queen Victoria refused to believe such things existed!).

Would not they be trying to "cure" gay people of their confused bad karma?

And what of all that male-to-male sex going on!?! Would they see gays as being "absolute impure" (tamopradhan)?

Friend

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Re: Orlando 2016: Brahma Kumaris and Homosexuality

Post13 Jun 2016

To be honest, since yesterday I am crying intermittedly and it's hard for me to focus but I'll try being coherent. I understand that, since BKs, Baba, the Murlis (whichever) are pro-celibacy, sexual orientation does not matter. But it really feels as though it is a taboo subject. I think I've only heard of Denise saying the word "homosexuals" during a speech. Others only mention it during private conversations. I can imagine a straight male BK referring to his pre-Gyan experiences with lovers, but I cannot imagine a gay BK doing the same. Why not, if it's all in the drama, hence unimportant? Masturbation is also a huge taboo, which, by the way has little to do with lust. You can feel the urge to masturbate without being stimulated by a human (assuming humans turn you on). But let's not go off-topic.

I don't think that's what the BKs have in mind, but I assume most LGBT people have fought hard for the right to be who they are, openly and without shame, so they're (myself included) not that eager to say "whatever, I am a soul, let's forget all that ... un-spiritual stuff."

One problem with the BKs (for me) is that it's all too general. Each one has their own traumas. Sure, doing physical service can empower you (it can also distract you from your deeper demons), meditation helps (though it can also persuade you that all is OK because you have nice or even great experiences, even if you haven't really changed) and other stuff as well can be beneficial but the BKs don't much believe in traumas of the last birth. I think this last birth is probably the only thing we have to deal with in order to heal our soul. So, specifics are relevant.

leonard

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Re: Orlando 2016: Brahma Kumaris and Homosexuality

Post13 Jun 2016

A small group of gay BKs, since retired from active service, held 2 retreats for gay community at Leura retreat centre 15 years ago. Now East Sydney Centre, run by intelligent Germans Conny and Florian, have weekly classes for LGBT community run by Sydney Gay Community.
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Re: Orlando 2016: Brahma Kumaris and Homosexuality

Post14 Jun 2016

There is the same insidious danger from BKs as many get from their churches, the idea that sex generally is "temptation" to be avoided and gay sex is worse; that it needs to be conquered/suppressed/sublimated - but especially gay sex. That marriage is a mistake only straights can be allowed to make!!!
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ex-l

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Re: Orlando 2016: Brahma Kumaris and Homosexuality

Post14 Jun 2016

Of course, 'same sex sex' has been going on for a very long time ... as it occurs in animals, I think it is safe to say "as long as humanity has existed".

Two things to take into consideration are,
    a) historical attitudes towards "same sex sex" in general, and
    b) Indian attitudes towards same sex sex, both modern and historic.
Quickly throwing out a few thoughts relevant to BKism, I'd say
    Firstly, the "invention" of homosexuality and its rigid definitions as a fairly modern thing (meaning that in the past it was not so clearly and exclusively defined either as a tendency or a self-identification),
    Secondly, this is still a prominent tendency within India, and
    Lastly, that it is seen largely as a male problem, an extension of the male as an uncontrollable "lust dog".
For example, "cruising" in parks in metropolises is a lot more common than in the West and exists as a sort of sexual outlet for males who for social/demographic or financial reasons are not able to "afford" a "natural sexual outlet", aka "a wife".

I am over using apostrophe's there to emphasis that those are not my views!

India has serious male-female demographic issues due to
    i) a predominance of poor rural males moving to large cities leaving equivalent females behind,
    ii) female infanticide ... literally the killing off considerable proportion of unborn females.
In short, on top of a naturally occuring proportion of homosexuals, there just aren't enough "females to go around".

In such a scenario, a cult promoting that a certain proportion of male society willingly adopts celibacy is actually providing an essential service ... although, in the BKs' cases, not for the right reason.

I would say female homosexuality within India and BKism is an even greater taboo. Males are expected to be lustful and, one presumes, be looking for any hole to stick it in. Lesbian BKs on the other hand ... too contentious to consider I would say, e.g. is for what proportion is BKism an outlet for Indian lesbians
    A) seeking to avoid marriage to male,
    B) a medium to express their dominance (in the case of those with dominant tendencies).
There was an interesting movie which raised this issue in Deepa Mehta's Fire (1996) to which the habitual repressive morons in India responded in their habitually moronic manner. India's Chief Minister Manohar Joshi at the time, a prominent leaders of the Shiv Sena political party, actually supported violent actions to shut down screenings of Fire, saying, "I congratulate them for what they have done. The film's theme (lesbianism) is alien to our culture."

The BKs have regularly courted Shiv Sena leaders.

Personally, I would remain highly cynical about the BKs overall intentions toward the LGBT community however "liberal" Conny and Florian might be. The BKs are skilled at exploiting whatever advantage they might find amongst followers or target victims.

And, as an aside, take into consideration the "T" element of LGBT, and India's long heritage of accepting transgenderism, and ask what the BKWSU attitude and acceptance of it is?

A prize for the first sari wearing male transgender Brahma Kumari being promoted to the position of centre-in-charge. God knows there are enough female BK centres-in-charge already wearing the trousers ...

Can someone ask Dadi Janki whether there will be any homosexuals in the Golden Age of humanity?

Can present day homosexual BKs accept a religion which believes that heterosexuality is the perfect norm for humanity, and, therefore, that homosexuality is an impure and imperfect expression?


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