BKs Sister Jayanti ... more Destruction revisionism

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Mr Green

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Re: BKs Sister Jayanti ... more Destruction revisionism

Post14 Sep 2016

I see what you mean guys, I am not really sticking up for her. She's done some stupid things and hurt many people in a very childish ignorant way. Yes, Dadi Janki enslaved her and abused her for years.

There was a real phrase used in the BK management circles of "ear bashing", whence you would receive an ear bashing. Dadi ear bashed Jayanti, Jayanti ear bashed center in charges, they ear bashed their surrendered members, it was all quite unpleasant and unnecessery.

She had a certain something though, there was humanity in her. She cared about others suffering I think.
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Pink Panther

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Re: BKs Sister Jayanti ... more Destruction revisionism

Post15 Sep 2016

I agree with you Green. Shame she can’t be completely honest with herself.
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ex-l

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Re: BKs Sister Jayanti ... more Destruction revisionism

Post15 Sep 2016

Mr Green wrote:She had a certain something though, there was humanity in her. She cared about others suffering I think.

May be ... may be she too is/was just conflicted. But the question you have to ask with the BKs is ... "to what end?".

I tend to think is she "really" cared about others, she stop promoting BKism.

Is she ever seriously challenged by anyone?

I don't mean aggressively so, I mean challenged about what she is doing by an impartial friend or equal. Does she have anyone that she can really talk too without having to play "her role" and keep up the indominatable ShivShakti facade?

Perhaps people like you, Mr Green, were as close as she gets?

What about any other Sisters?
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Mr Green

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Re: BKs Sister Jayanti ... more Destruction revisionism

Post15 Sep 2016

Yes I agree Pink Panther it is a shame she's trapped still to this day

Ex l You're probably right, I did openly challenge her faith as mine was falling apart. I mentioned child abuse to her, she wouldn't comment or make eye contact but I could see I'd hit her heart with an arrow. I spoke about The Cycle and I could see she had been there a million times before and had accepted The Cycle probably was ultimately untrue but part of her believed it.

She did meet Brahma personally and it obviously blew her mind, she used to be a trance messenger and is very powerful in her meditation tapes.

I did really feel for the younger Hindi shaktis, the surrendered ones who hardly ever do anything but gods stuff, they really are trapped at a time when they should be discovering and exploring the world and themselves
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Pink Panther

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Re: BKs Sister Jayanti ... more Destruction revisionism

Post16 Sep 2016

ex-l wrote:I mean challenged about what she is doing by an impartial friend or equal. Does she have anyone that she can really talk too without having to play "her role" and keep up the indominatable ShivShakti facade?

Well that's one of the ”four pillars” - good company, which is quite unambiguously described as other BKs. No matter how ”open-minded” or different a BK is, as long as they are BKs they have limits around what is and isn’t beyond question.

We see the same within other religions, where apologists and representatives will try to separate the abstract collective from the actual actions done in its name.

For example, what is ”America” ? Is it what its citizens are taught and told by media, what its citizenry imagines it to be or even what it aspires to be and idealises despite history and actions and policies, or is America what it is, today, what it does and has done?

What is communism? Is it what it says it is, what it aspires too, or is it best understood by what eventuates, the actions and results when implemented in the real world?

How far is any ideology attuned to reality, human nature and the laws of the universe and how far removed is the ideal from it, with ensuing disasters, crimes and abuses?

On a human level - you meet a waiter in a cafe. You talk. They say ”I’m not just a waiter, I am a writer”. You ask about what they have written. They say ”bits and pieces, nothing published, but I am working on an idea, and when I pull it together, it’ll be a masterpiece”. Two years later you go back to the cafe and the same waiter serves you”, is he a writer or a ‘waiter'? (pun intended)

On a group level - Imagine a group who believe that unaided human flight is ”our true nature we’ve only forgotten it, lost faith in our true selves”. This group believes that with all the power of positive thought, meditation and applying ”The Law of Attraction” by soem other jargon name, taught by a leader/ guru/god-medium that flight is human destiny. the sign of reaching the next stage of higher consciousness (- "we used to fly, angels with wings are a memorial” ;-) ). The believers are sincere, they live a principled life of discipline and do lots of community service. Every now and then, someone jumps off a building and dies, with the tragedy written off as it being their fault, not waiting till it was the right time, they did not understand, or they could have but a lack of faith allowed gravity to win.

It is, in the group’s eyes, not the ideal that was out of touch with reality, after all, the community does good work, the people are decent and principled, one day people will fly, it’s a faith that promotes good people living good lives ...

One day, some of us leave - despite the ’many good people' who are serving others , disciplined, principled, moral, chaste, whatever, we finally can see the fact that humans are earth-based creatures who cannot fly unaided, no matter how much faith, effort, patience, Yoga etc happens.

Others in the group, equally experienced and no less intelligent, suppress this thought. They have positions of respect, authority, identity, name & fame. They know the promise of flight has been postponed again and again, indeed they know it is as unlikely as breathing underwater, but they have too much personally invested to just up and leave.

And, well, no-one is forced to believe, or to jump off the building ...
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ex-l

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Re: BKs Sister Jayanti ... more Destruction revisionism

Post16 Sep 2016

Pink Panther wrote:And, well, no-one is forced to believe, or to jump off the building ...


No one is forced to believe ... but they are set up to believe, generally by one party, and then exploited by other parties.

There is a sort of 'vortex of abuse' thing that happens that ends with - in the BK context - with what are basically "abused" or at least culturally disadvantaged Indian women handing over their daughters to the Brahma Kumaris to save them from what they went through.

Would the 'young Jayanti' fit into such a model?

I don't mean that her BK mother was abused by her husband, but culturally abused, e.g. arranged marriage, unable to pursue her own ambitions/education/desire, removed from BK India by her husband, never living for herself etc etc etc.

Being a BK guru must have seemed like freedom to the young Jayanti unhappen as she was with her university studies at the time.
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Pink Panther

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Re: BKs Sister Jayanti ... more Destruction revisionism

Post17 Sep 2016

Hi ex-l,

My comment ”and, well, no-one is forced to believe, or to jump off the building ...” which you quoted, it was a rhetorical flourish, a sarcastic reference to the little parable I made up by way of illustration and comparison, of the cult whose members believe they one day can fly.

No one is forced to believe - but they are led to believe, in which case the one who leads them to that belief, who cultivates and reinforces that belief, and does nothing to prevent them believing things that go against physics, that person or group is responsible. The stated ideal, no matter how noble (bring freedom to ”the soul”, to Iraq, whatever) and the practical outcomes are two separate things. The foot-soldiers are the ones who get damaged physically or psychologically, fighting sincerely for what they believe to be the right cause.

The belief that was nurtured may not have explicitly included that you can "fly” just yet, today, and even if the day the followers will ‘fly' is forever postponed into the future, still the damaged person will not have been damaged, distracted into that path, jumped and died, if the nonsense hadn’t been planted in their brain and watered buy the leader and the group.

Sincerity is no excuse, even after the fact. To see the ‘collateral damage' and go on as if one is not responsible in any way is dishonest or delusional.

My main point is that no matter how benign a group seems, how idealistic and charitable and serving of others it may be, if it includes a teaching which leads to such harm, then those teaching it are responsible for the results.

Jayanti is responsible, as are Janki and all other ”leaders” of any rank in the organisation.
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ex-l

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Re: BKs Sister Jayanti ... more Destruction revisionism

Post17 Sep 2016

Pink Panther wrote:Sincerity is no excuse, even after the fact. To see the ‘collateral damage' and go on as if one is not responsible in any way is dishonest or delusional.

I'd go further ... beyond a certain point it becomes knowingly malicious or malevolent.

It might be fair or interesting to discuss at what point that happens but I remember, in my own case, being encourage by one of the Seniors to knowingly deceive my family who they knew were upset and concerned ... while knowing they had been causing such intra-family conflicts for decades.

I, of course, did not. As a new BK, I really only knew mine. They, on the other hand, would have been sitting there on the phone, or in person, thinking to themselves, "Oh God ... not another one".

I would say that it's at that the point where one becomes insensitive to the hurt/conflict/upset you or your system is causing, and keep on encouraging it, that the operative becomes malevolent.

Add to that knowledge of the previous cover ups and deceptions - for example, in the case of Janki, and it's a slam dunk.

One is corrupt. And I would say she is.

I have no idea what Jayanti is like now but, in my experience, she was more keen to dump any problems back on you and your family. She did not want to get involved. Any problems were your fault/karma.

That in itself was equally hurtful as to the infatuated neophyte, it's like a reject from their "long lost, new found" spiritual family.

I have some terrible (painful/humiliating) memories of being "dumped" into the laps of entire strangers (the senior Sisters) by a local center-in-charge who was entirely out of her depth to be given the "Shrimat" that was supposed to magically fix my life!

What idiocy that was ... but Jayanti played up to it.

Neophytes were introduced to her and the other Seniors as divine beings directly connected to God at all times who's mere utterances where, in essence, whispered into their ear by God Himself and equal to God's own advice. I see the same sort of thing happening with Shivani today ... who is some ways I find quite similar to the young Jayanti, e.g. a little sharp and inhuman, two dimensional and lacking ... and always armed with crisp, freshly laundered saris.

I'd say it's a sort of false confidence that can only exist in an environment where it is unchallenged and unquestioned.

I mean, if you were to put Jayanti in some other corporation or professional organisation ... how do you think she would cope or come across?
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bkti-pit

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Re: BKs Sister Jayanti ... more Destruction revisionism

Post19 Sep 2016

When I read Eugene's account of his dealings with the BK clan as he was trying to get them to adopt a proper child protection policy (after he had been informed about a young girl who had been sexually abused in Madhuban), I was appalled by Jayanti's responses to him, her blatant lies, hypocrisy, disingenuousness... I was disgusted.

I was still a full faith, fully surrendered BK at the time. I already had issues with the dishonesty within the BK apparatus but that one topped it all. I instantly and completely lost trust in her and by extension in Dadi Janki since, in my mind, there was no way that she would have acted without consulting with Dadi.

However nice they may seem at times, however excusable Jayanti might be otherwise, it is clear to me that they are not motivated by truth and benevolence.
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leonard

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Re: BKs Sister Jayanti ... more Destruction revisionism

Post21 Sep 2016

bkti-pit says true. To read this topic is disturbing in Eugene's report. This attitude continues to this day, but on other topics.
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