"The Shift”: a Meeting in Schauen - Next Generation BKism?

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"The Shift”: a Meeting in Schauen - Next Generation BKism?

Post19 Jan 2017

From the 'Brahma Kumaris Research' website, regarding a small meeting of perhaps influential Western BKs in Germany including the original Western BK, Stephan Nagel or "BK Surya" of Germany (small grammatical corrections/lay out included).

An interesting insight into the current state of the BK Nation ... however, I would be slightly critical of some of the historical context that they are proposing.

What to make of it? From a BK point of view, they appear to want to be BKs but not be BKs. From an orthodox BK point of view, are they not just "being weak", caught in the grip of their own manmat/Maya and aiming for a low status at the end of the Silver Age because they did not "make efforts".

From a racialist point of view, is what they are desiring not just more White Privilege within BKism? I don't see any sentiments of intention to go out and liberate all the Indians and, especially, Indian women enslaved by 'old school' BKism.

Of course, it also does raise interesting question such as, "who can judge who has got it most right within BKism?".

I must admit it makes me very happy to read that centres are failing, that new BKs are not being signed up at the same rate as before, and that some BKs are thinking about their collective responsibilities for those who were enculted and gave their lives to the cult. And, especially, for BKs to at least be critical of all the VIP chasing their leaders have a lust for. Add that to other euphemistically stated reports from within that they are "not attracting the same quality of soul".

But if they can see all of that ... why don't just give it all up and do a Brian Bacon*?*
"The Shift”: A Meeting in Schauen 19.7.2016 - 22.7.2016

Out of no special purpose, just because we wanted, a small group of BKs met in Schauen, Northgermany, near Bad Harzburg in the House of Peter, a contact.

We were seven, Surya [Stephan Nagel], Hermann, Uschi, Patrizia [Heise], Pauline from Holland, and Jan and Veeke from Belgium. We just wanted to spend time together, exchange our thoughts, have a good time walk in the beautiful mountain areas of the Harz. Also swimming was possible in the nearby outdoor swimming pool, a community project of the villagers. As it was really hot we used that every day.

We also had lots of fruits and vegetables from the garden of Peter, which we could harvest and cook. We watered the garden because of the heat every evening. Tamasin [Ramsay] from Australia should have been with us too, but as she had an accident in between and flew directly back from New York to Australia. Because the talks among us became so interesting, we decided to write a small protocol which we want to share. We called our meeting "The Next level" first and then changed it to "The Shift". It was a name which we thought would capture the spirit we felt.

These were the topics which came up:
    What is really service and what does it mean for us now?
    What are the points in the Yagya Survey Pilot study which resonate with us?
    What made us stay in the beginning and now?
    Do we need centers, retreat places, organisation?
    What is it that connects us all?
    Do we need hierarchy?
    What is real leadership?
    What is the real core/seed of the Yagya?
    What is really spirituality today? How do we study?
What is the Seed of the Yagya?

If we study the history according to the BK research, the Yagya as we see it today underwent many changes over the decades. So BK in the 1930s was not BK in the 50s, in the 70s, nor in the 90s, nor today. What is it really for us now? Firstly, it was all about sharing an experience in a small group (Om Mandali) and being enthusiastic about it. The experience was changing lives. Can that change the world?

Religions always start in a kind of mystery. BK developed from a traditional Hindu Sect into a spiritual organisation, that is quite opposed to traditional Hindu thought. Something else came out other than what they started with. First, they were a Krishna worshipping group. That was fitting in the Hindu society. Also, it is common that Hindu Gurus attract young females. 80% of the followers are mostly women (also in the Yogananada Ashram in the US we could see that phenomena, they also had a court case).

This fact, of females being attracted to a male Guru, creates often suspicion amongst relatives, husbands, Brothers, and fathers. The Pakistani society of that time was very conservative and worried about the behaviour of Lekrajh. We think that Brahmacharya (celibacy) as a principle, and probably the Maryadas in general, were created for this reason later on. Brahma Baba had a court case and nobody wanted to repeat this in India. They wanted to be respected by the Hindu society, so the system they build was even more strict than any Hindu or Sikh System. They became an orderly, clean, correct and disciplined school type ashram. Young women could study a spiritual lifestyle there and parents did not have to worry. For us, it seemed to be a bit like a School for Girls for the Betterment of Society in Europe at the end of the 19th century.

Within the BK in India of that time, after the partition in the 1950s, new points [of philosophy] developed; for example that Krishna is not God, that there are Three Worlds. It was quite late that Shiva came in. So the BK philosophy developed bit by bit. Before that, they had many years reading the Gita.

Many other organisations split up, also in BKs there were discussions, for example about Piu, the Golden Circle, but BK did not vanish, it remained strong in India. But in the West, there may be not such success.

Christianity also was a very exclusive group in the beginning, a monk religion. Later, they gave that up and everyone could enter it. Only then they became successful. Something like that could develop in the next years in BK also. If Destruction is not coming, it could be a new religion, a kind of reformed Hinduism. There could be a Core-Group with people living a monk life with a kind of Ashram System, and those around it who live in the society a normal life, are integrated with their family and profession while being a full member of BK but not following a monk tradition. Integration and connection seem to be the way for making the whole thing authentic and can bridge to the society in each of [its host] countries. The feeling of being something better than others will hold the movement small in the West.

We saw that, in the future, Maryadas can become Guidelines, which can be followed on a voluntary basis. It should not be a vow for a lifetime, but something one can experiment with and see if it fits one's own way of life and if it helps to develop spiritually. This fits more with the spirit of Western culture, which is based on freedom of choice and informed consent. Dictated principles are not accepted and felt as absolutely contra real development. It even leads to a lot of disturbances, tensions and mental health problems because life and spiritual path become two different things, which do not fit together any more. It ́s like a split. Western people want and need to heal their splits, that are already there anyway. Isolation is there also more than enough. It showed that it will not do anymore to put people together in a Shakti or Pandav Bhavan. Friendship and free choice with whom to live how is a means to lead an independent and still connected integrated life in the Brahmin community. A lot of Western BKs do feel isolated.

Brahma Baba talked to all the interesting and important people of the time and commented on major contemporary lines of thoughts. If he would live now he would also do that. So we have to do that now and connect Raja Yoga to philosophy, literature, psychology, socio-political aspects and questions of community of today, also art communities and other spiritual & Yoga individuals & organisations.

Spirituality

To be spiritual for us means to remain close to the Seed. BK is our tradition and religion. We are European and have a BK religion (but) and living in the European culture - both are important for us. I am similar to God, God as a point of light and a personal being at the same time, that is very unique and only in BK knowledge. Then it needs to be integrated and expressed in life. This can differ from culture to culture.

What we like is meditation and contact from soul to soul. It creates a special atmosphere. We like the meeting with individuals in the family and with Baba. Some have experienced the first meeting with Baba and drishti like a laser beam, which nobody will forget. There is an inner knowing, a recognition of belonging beyond any doubt. It gives us a compass and a structure. Also reading the Murli. It led us to knowing why we are here. It is precious and we do not want to loose it.

Many had felt that their life was chaotic before they had Gyan. There is a difference between human and divine experience of love. The point of Drama also has a strong impact on us. We have to say "yes" to our story and our past, accepting it as it was and not manipulate it with shame to fit better into the Brahmin society.

Centres and study in the West

What else connects us? It is a magic of being touched, a deep recognition when we first came in contact, also in Madhuban. Some see a very alternative thinking of politics, people wanting to do something good for the world. BK could be that organisation that is constructive for the earth and society and could make a difference answering the questions of, "Who am I?" A Combination of being spiritual without being a monk or a nun, living in a household and still be spiritual, that is an appealing concept for the West.

Those who want to live in a Center and really want to live that life accordingly to all Maryadas voluntary are valued then even more. The origin was in families and little communities. Here it has to be a part of a bigger society. For that, we need a flat system. A strong hierarchy does not fit with Western society - it creates rejection.
    What is going on in our life as a BK?
    How can we develop deeper levels of trust in the Centres?
    What can be their roles?
To have no Centres any more also does not feel right. The fact is that they are closing down, less and less people go there.

Newness in study is important, like studying by Skype, Internet, Webinars etc. The aspect of school is seen as something valuable for the future by some of us. The form of Inner Space is liked. The points of judging, motivations make the difference here. Are those in the centres better than those who are living in households, and even if Baba is emphasizing this from time to time, it still seems to be an issue. The difference between the ones living in a centre and the ones outside the Centre is too big. It is essential to integrate the culture of the country in our living. As the boards were coming up and showing the need of this on an external, formal level, it is essential to respect the cultures of the countries on the inner level also instead of imposing that what is understood as Brahmin culture, on everyone.

Yagya Research Pilot study

We looked at the Yagya research and found the same topics: People want to live a normal modern life and put energy in their own transformation, live happy and inspire others through their own life not by big service programmes and not by VIP chasing. They want to connect with others, live an authentic life, feel like direct interfaces with others in the community and still be spiritual and deeply rooted in the Brahmin system and society. Service cannot mean that we have the aim to impose rigid rules on others and make them into BKs or followers. No one is interested in that. Even the very name Brahma Kumaris creates so much confusion and difficulties. For example "Om Mandali – studying spiritual knowledge" at least might be more easily to work with in the public. Or Raja Yoga Meditation as they do in France!

What is service then? What does it mean for us?

It is a difficult topic. Do we want to be living examples, living museums? For what? Promoting Brahma Kumaris? What is BK? What is the Core of the Yagya, the values we feel connected to?

After a day of being together we feel really connected and in tune with each other. This is what we always wanted. To be accepted like we are. We are like we are. Not having to play a role, not having to do anything. We read Murli and discuss points in a natural way. We meditate - each one at their own time. If I am at the right place in the right time I can be used to inspire others. This is service, to be used by a higher purpose, be part of an evolution. Be ready at the time when you are needed. I am not doing it. Life is happening. It is in a flow, without thinking. By being together we spread what we are.

If we see the organisation it becomes a dilemma. We want to be part of it and still be ourselves. What we like are groups on an eye-level now with a flat hierarchy. Leadership is still needed but it is a function not a position. The dilemma needs to be discussed. How can our life be meaningful?

We need to have individuality and independence. Hierarchy can be a hindrance. It does not let things flow and grow. Also contact with others (non BKs) has to be integrated in a normal way, without seeing them as "Shudras" potential subjects or "less", having the view that they are poor and knowing nothing. In daily life, experience many people are already connected to Baba. Every human being on earth has a right to exist and we have to work all together to manage the global transformation now. Dadi Kumarka spoke about that - very interesting statements three years ago, when she came subtly.

Retreat houses, community living together can save money because of shared resources. (Shakti Bhawan in London works well). What do we need for our life? Until now the system has supported us, but what do we need now? There are also the older ones, who is supporting them? Many have given everything to the Yagya and have nothing now. We think of a community that can also be open for others. It is not about a concrete building but about a group of individuals, a core group who wants to be together. For certain activities buildings can also be rented.

First of all transformation is the process that has to happen and should be supported. If we only buy a house, then it might only support the old system. Many live alone but want to be part of a community - it is more than having a retreat house. What is the aim? Why did Kranzberg and Gubbio not work any more?

BK is not growing, the box system does not carry any more, no new BKs are coming. People want to have a kind of family they can belong to. We belong to the BK family, but we don`t want to be isolated and outside of the society. We cannot just copy India any more. Also in most centers less people are coming in the morning, the Sakar Murli is too much and too long for most. If we want to build up something for the West, it cannot be build on Indian ideas. Concepts of the West like the self have to be integrated.

"Be yourself, become yourself", you can hear this often. To release the self, for this we have Western traditions. Also an intelligent picture of God can be presented, people want to be close to God. God, Self, Harmony of the cosmos, (Wholeness) these 3 are important. The development of the individual, without thinking that considering the self is the ego and Manmat. This again suppresses the true potential of the self, the perfect self and is part of one of the dilemmas in eastern and Western thinking. Small holistic and vegan communities would be useful and a solution for many BKs. Being creative in service and organizing many activities leaves no time to earn an income and as mentioned above, the box system does not work here!

30 years ago there was a collapse in Germany, the system had become tense. Surya and Suman did not want to support something which most of the people did not like and found suppressive. They did not want to read the Sakar Murli any more, the Center closed. Kranzberg was then lost. It can help to explore the points which are not functioning instead of denying them as not existent or ego, or less of discipline, or weakness. It ́s time to look at these instead just continuing as usual. What is usual and practical? To whom shall we speak about things not functioning? Which conclusions to draw?

Our Childhood

We talked about the experience of the beautiful youth in BK, that we had. We are thankful, we know we belong to BK. Then comes a dilemma, because the organisation is doing things and chasing VIPS in the West. It is typical for India, but we do not like it.

The film Sensai Marina Abramovic is about giving Drishti - she is totally attractive through authenticity for thousands of people, and even for the scientists. Why are we as a group not appealing (attractive)? We do the same thing: Giving Drishti. She is doing it in the context of Art as an individual person. If we do it in the context of religion as a group it is suspicious.

As a group we are not (attractive) trustworthy. There are too many rules, have-to-dos, shoulds and so on. Working for a new society, that is what we want. To really follow (your heart) our destination and contribution to the BK community and world with our core values needs courage. Also to find your own personal way - it can lead to many contradictions.

Intuition

Is it Manmat to follow our intuition? We do not think so. We see intuition as a powerful inner guiding voice, it is the soul speaking (insaie). A kind of red thread which you can follow, a divine touching. Many scientific inventions came through intuition not through thinking and logic. If intuition is seen as Manmat that is a profound difference. If you follow your heart you are not identified with yourself. We are not identified with an organisation, but we feel identified with the process of world change, being connected with the Brahmin Family and searching for new approaches for dilemmas in our life.

The Heroes, the Changemakers.

Taking new steps, it is already connected with growth what we do now. The time to create new Brahmins is over. Raja Yoga has to be part of a good life today where every area is included: spiritual growth, health, happiness, healthy finances, good relationships.
    How to create a connection?
    What is service really?
It is not to create Brahmins, that thought is even a hindrance. To always try to be a perfect BK leads to tension, mental problems, breaking of relationships. Old BKs are really suffering because of that. Also many manipulations by centre coordinators are happening. In a system with priests they are there to help other people, but is there a relationship between priests? No.

How did all of us survive until now? Through interconnectedness, friends, that keeps us alive, there are always pioneers and tipping points. Something new is now coming. Is it the next level, the next step, a shift? There are undercurrents visible everywhere.

Undercurrents come from all the topics which never have been integrated and could not be addressed. Some are carried away by these currents. To feel them and still keep our path is a kind of paradox. Natural transformation If we put attention on what we are, then others will also appreciate it. Things are coming up. We can form a group and support each other, create a vision.

In a transformation process of a caterpillar, imago-cells are those who carry the information for the new butterfly, they are attacked first by the old cells, but they form clusters and networks and their information is affecting the others more and more.

We talked about Robert Shubow, a former BK who wrote 'The Voyagers'. He became Shunyamurti, a guru in Costa Rica, who integrated Raja Yoga with philosophy and contemporary science and psychology. A whole community is growing around it. It seems to work and might be a form of living Raja Yoga.

Baba had sent women to Japan in the beginning. That looked totally impossible first. How could women go somewhere alone? All thought this would not work. But it did and created something new and spread.

* "Do a Brian Bacon" definition: turn one's BK experience into a profitable business and cherrypick the most attractive, intelligent and gifted partner one can from amongst the BK community to settle down with.

More than a few have. Even if sex is not on the agenda, then at least shared living and compatible companionship for BK veterans - where there's no Senior Sister checking one's charty - sounds an improvement.

Sounds like they've been reading our minds.
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ex-l

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Re: "The Shift”: a Meeting in Schauen - Next Generation BKis

Post20 Jan 2017

Whilst sadly asking themselves, "why aren't we attractive and why does no one love us?" ... the "non-BK-BKs" mention the work of Serbian artist Marina Abramović called "The Magic of Mutual Gaze" or "Measuring the Magic of Mutual Gaze (2011)" who has turned "dhristi" into some kind of art.

Marina is not alone in this. Inspired by her, young Ukrainian actor Igor Kreyman has caught the Beakies sleeping and started 'The Human Connection Movement' (complete with de rigeur these days "Corporate Workshops" ... naturally). See, here.

I pray to a non-BK god that the BKs, non-BK or not, don't infiltrate his movement with their agenda and have emailed him about them already.

Why aren't you attractive, darlings?

Because you're a despotic End of the World cult, whipped into a frenzy of VIP chasing, by a god spirit who is determined to wipe out 7 billion human beings via nuclear war, and who think they are better than everyone else ... DESPITE ANY EVIDENCE SUPPORTING IT.

You're nuts.

And, no, no one else believes Dadi Janki is one of the top 8 human beings that ever existed, let alone Sister Jayanti one of the top 108, nor that time repeats every 5,000 years and dinosaurs 2,500 years ago.

Please just give up and STFU, but before you leave, consider the fate of all the young Indian girls enslaved to the cult.
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Re: "The Shift”: a Meeting in Schauen - Next Generation BKis

Post21 Jan 2017

Geez, what a load of intellectual hypocrisy, philosophical dishonesty and egoistic equivocation !
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Re: "The Shift”: a Meeting in Schauen - Next Generation BKis

Post21 Jan 2017

I smile broadly when I see Denise's name as one of the authors of the Shift. Why do I smile? I smile for many reasons.

One reason is the fact that the idea of shift in the BK sub-culture was presented on this site many many months ago along the line of Khun's Structure of Scientific Revolutions. Some BKs, including Denise may crave a shift or revolution while they are swept away by a revolutionary storm that is involuntary. It is nice to crave paradigm shifts, especially from a feminist chauvinistic or anti-male perspective. It is quite another kettle of fish to be in the trenches and becoming the agent of the shift.

There is a psychological constitution of an agent of change. Fabulous wealth is not mandatory, but a wealth of creativity and tenacity plus mental cool are helpful. The late Richard Gregory in his book, 'The Mind in Science', described the type of intelligence required for those shifting paradigms. Gregory differentiates between potential intelligence (PI) and kinetic intelligence (KI).

Those who shift paradigms are able to manifest their KI to solve problems that cannot be solved by regular or canonical knowledge. For more than five decades, the BKs have suppressed the expression of KI supported PI while an internal revolution has been happening inside of their sub-culture and many parts of the globe.

Selling BKism to the corporate elite and becoming famous and wealthy are not paradigm shifts in Khun's postulates. Where was the KI. It is also great to parrot Eastern mysticism with a British accent to large audiences. Where is the paradigm shift in those types of service activities?

Yes, Denise, there is a revolution in BKism and the phoenix will rise.
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Re: "The Shift”: a Meeting in Schauen - Next Generation BKis

Post21 Jan 2017

Politicians like to present themselves as leaders.

However, often I think they are just walking ahead of the flock with one eye looking over their shoulder to see where the flock is turning, so that they can change their walk to continue to appear as if they were leading the change.

BKism is not without its "politicians" and, as you point out Raj, many "politicians" bail out and turn their career to benefit - finanical benefit - working in the corporate sector. Their "political career" was, in essence, just a loss leader ... an unprofitable investment - to learn skills, make connections and increase their market value (reputation) - that they could then recoup later from within the commercial world.

I have to laugh and shake my head when I heard of corporations paying corporate rates to benefit from a rehash of what they could have got for nothing at their local BK centre/ashram. Of course, the corporations are deluded that something that is given from free, that is not paid for, must be worth nothing ... so they are happy to pay a fortune for the same.

Indeed, did Lekhraj Kirpalani not do the same when he was a millionaire businessman paying a fortune for the initiation from the sadhu from Bengal? Did he 'get it' any more than the corporations 'get it'? I am reminded of a quote from a movie that I recently watched about how corporations repackage subversion - even spiritual subversion - and turn it into a product.

I refer to how the "Shifting BKs" like the BKWSU commercial outlets, their "Inner Space" shops.

I would have to say true spirituality will always be at odds with corporatisation, especially the corporatisation of spirituality!

I also see a tendency in their thought of telling stories to each other and believing in them ... it's *always* a bad thing to do ... to believe in one's own hyperbolic bullsh*t. For example,
Denise wrote:when Dadi Prakashmani took over from Brahma Baba (in 1969) she transformed the Yagya totally and completely

Really ... "totally and completely transformed" the Yagya? Can you qualify and sustain that? (... to say nothing of the role Ramesh, Jagdish and others had).

Something else that amuses me how hard they all find it to acknowledge we rebels on the outside who have been blazing new paths for them to follow and digging up old relics that transform how we see BKism today.

As an aside, connected to your Khun reference, I recently read about Howard Gardner in his theory of multiple intelligences (1983). His categorisations of intelligences were:
    musical–rhythmic,
    visual–spatial,
    verbal–linguistic,
    logical–mathematical,
    bodily–kinesthetic,
    interpersonal,
    intrapersonal, and
    naturalistic.
To which he later suggested that existential and moral intelligence could be added. His point being that we don’t possess just one form of intelligence, but each one of us have our own unique combination at various levels from that list.

If we are to include the Kirpalani Klan, we'd have to add a financial intelligence, which is often divorced from the latter.
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Re: "The Shift”: a Meeting in Schauen - Next Generation BKis

Post21 Jan 2017

Another side ... paradoxically, neo-BKs are given to quote "dirty Shudras" to support their thoughts and ideas. Paradoxically because their god spirit comes down pretty heavily on any dirty Shudra thoughts, philosophies and beliefs.

Here they are quoting Rob Siltanen, an advertising exective who is referring to Chiat/Day's, (another advertising corporation) Apple computer's famous “Think Different” advertising campaign. It's a quote often, incorrectly, assigned to Steve Job's himself.

It interests me because of the huge paradox of how the BKs claim "everything comes from their god spirit" ... but, inevitably, almost all of the inspiration actually comes from non-BK sources. Like us.

Given how conformist BKism ... the great IBM of spiritual world ... are BKs *really* able to rebel? Is to rebel not to fail according to their indoctrination and, especially, leaders' eye's?

My guess is that, despite it all, Denise still uses an Apple Mac computer too!
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Re: "The Shift”: a Meeting in Schauen - Next Generation BKis

Post21 Jan 2017

Glad to see that everyone on this forum has seen through the dishonesty and hypocrisy of these half BKs.

In fact, I would like to 'thank Baba' for this wisdom imparted to us. His manipulative techniques have made those who left his cult very sharp and 'wise' so much so that we can see through the deception when it is being practiced, not just by BKs but also other similar little charlatans thereby making clear our path in life of similar people.

Wah Baba Wah :D.
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Re: "The Shift”: a Meeting in Schauen - Next Generation BKis

Post22 Jan 2017

Ex-I, for sure the BKs feel that they are the dissidents, the agents of change and paradigm snifters.

How can you be fully accepting most of a sub-culture, suppressing authentic, dissidence, dismissing authentic dissidence, and claim that, because you are a BK, you have a right to wear the hat and costume of a dissident?

The authentic BK revolution will be outside-in and will be bottom-up not top-down. The top brass BK politicians are too busy on the gadi, lecturing, and having Golden Aged dreams.

As they dream, the waves of the outside-in revolution are sweeping are cresting and will soon consume the BK sub-culture.

IBM is a good example and another is Ma Bel. Monopolies do not last.
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Re: "The Shift”: a Meeting in Schauen - Next Generation BKis

Post22 Jan 2017

Null's characterization of souls by their life energies have similarities to Gardner's model of MI. In Null's model there are seven life energies manifested through individuals, one per person through out the person's life. They are:
    Creative Assertive;
    Adaptive Assertive;
    Adaptive Aggressive;
    Adaptive Supportive;
    Dynamic Assertive;
    Dynamic Supportive; and
    Dynamic Aggressive.
The dynamic assertive are the ones, revolutionary leaders who will stand up to the dynamic aggressive, the CEOs, captains of industry, and dictators and challenge their false authority or dark deeds.
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Re: "The Shift”: a Meeting in Schauen - Next Generation BKis

Post22 Jan 2017

I don't know where I stand with these non-BK BKs.

In theory, I suppose we should be supportive ... they may just be going through their own gradual exiting process ... but, on the other hand, are they not just wanting to have their cake and eat it?

I do tend to find them at least apologetic of BKism.

There's a risk that all they are doing is developing yet another layer of sugary language to hide and justify what's going on ... one that the leadership will them co-opt to carry on 'business as usual'.

I think where I disrespect them the most is where they turn a blind eye to and disassociate themselves from what is going on in India, as if it is nothing to do with them.

I've had that right from the top of the Western tree, e.g. Jayanti. It's almost as if even they've washed their hands of what the Indian overseers are up to.

How much of an influence do they actually have on the BK establishment?

How much of an influence, how much of value, does the entire Western BK world actually have on the BK establishment?

A long time ago, one of the issue we used to campaign for here was to "Free the Murlis" ... for all the original Murlis to be available to anyone to do with what they wanted, thereby circumventing the BKWSU's monopoly and exploiting of them.

If a BK has them, what more do they need of the establishment? Oh, for sure, the establishment will attempt to manipulate and cojole them into donating their time, money and energy ... but rebuffing that, what's for them to set up their own little independent "spiritual university" on the side?

Or a non-judgemental "association of independent BKs"?

I suppose the limitation is the philosophical framework itself. But how much of that do they buy into now?

Unfortunately, what I distrust the most is their promulgation of 'BK spiritism' under some other even more vague disguise.
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Re: "The Shift”: a Meeting in Schauen - Next Generation BKis

Post23 Jan 2017

Some very important question are these:

Why has the fraction of the 1% who control the global systems, including the global economy, allowed BKism to grow?

Rajnesh was stopped or slowed down.

How has the fraction of the 1% allowed the BKs a higher and higher profile in the news media?

Sure, they may not as yet be on the day to day news on the major American networks, but there had to be some influence to give them the press coverage. I remembered the reaction of the BK top brass in the winter of 1985 when Errol screened a 30 interview of him and Barbara by Kim Davis on Channel 12 the NBC station in Montgomery, Alabama on the medical effects of Yoga meditation.

The reception of the BK top brass was cold to lukewarm and tinged with envy by some.
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Re: "The Shift”: a Meeting in Schauen - Next Generation BKis

Post23 Jan 2017

GuptaRati 6666 wrote:Why has the fraction of the 1% who control the global systems, including the global economy, allowed BKism to grow?

Probably because they recognise, envy even, the value in having a submissive, compliant, unquestioning proletariat.

I remember not so long ago flagging up how the BKs in India became involved in a strike in a large corporation, a car factory from memory, in essence pacifying the workers.

The BKs in Indian at least appear to be targetting themselves at becoming the handmaidens to those in power, and are generally seen aligned with those on the Right, and those in the Establishment.

This for me underlines the paradox, if not hypocrisy of these "liberal" or "alternative" type Western BKs posing as "the rebels". When will they wash the delusional eyewash from their eyes?
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Re: "The Shift”: a Meeting in Schauen - Next Generation BKis

Post23 Jan 2017

GuptaRati 6666 wrote: -The authentic BK revolution will be outside-in and will be bottom-up not top-down.

The only effective revolutionary act possible with the BKs and similar groups is walking away.

If a group built on delusions has a revolution replacing one delusion with another delusion, what good is that? The foundation of the BK identity is a delusion, very much an image like those used to sell a perfume. Put on this and you too will be like (name your celebrity - or in BK case, like Baba ‘bapsaman' or like Dadi, or Lakshmi). If the delusion aspect of it is gone, there is no ”brand” and no differentiation. It's just another bottle of vapours.

The most interesting part of the excerpt, IMO, is the way these supposedly intelligent people place no emphasis on BKWSU being a vehicle for personal benefit, regardless of popularity, or that the aim of any ‘vehicle’ is to serve a purpose and then be discarded. Their concern is to make the organisation sustainable and continuing entity by raising its popular appeal. That is, what is interesting is how they see their relevance tied up with the relevance of the organisation. If the organisation fails, they have failed. It validates them when it is *seen as* valid (actual validity matters not).

Hey dudes - when you have dug yourself into a hole, stop digging!!

The fact that such supposedly intelligent people who have observed so much bullsh** over decades have still, at this stage, chosen to put more effort into perpetuating the link between their identity and the organisation's, linking personal ego to a narrowly defined superego, is disappointing to say the least. It’s literally ridiculous, to be honest.

They think they want to make it, the organisation, more like them, but by playing this regularly repeating game of ‘review’ and ”modernisation” they have in fact fallen right into the same old trap that has trapped people from the beginning. They are led to believe they individually matter, that they personally are actually important to it, that their views count.

Its a form of the old ”I am special, a chosen one, not like ”normal” people”. In fact the organisation says that to anyone who comes along and those who believe and stay make it a self-fulfilling prophecy of self-aggrandisement, the proof is in the staying, those who leave are less, the proof of that is in their leaving.

Reviews and committees to "reform" - like this group - have gone on since I’ve known the BKs, that’s from the 1970s.

People get together, pronounce a few ”we should this” and ”we should that” and publish a list or some kind of manifesto- and all they’ve done is blow off steam for a bit, think how clever they are and how if only the yugya did what they suggest it would be so much better. The Seniors patronisingly pretend to take note, pat them on the head and thank them for their efforts, then after a while everything returns to the old pattern, with maybe some new tinsel on the outside edges.

The BKWSU doesn’t care who comes and goes, who thinks what, as long as the BKWSU continues and prospers.
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Re: "The Shift”: a Meeting in Schauen - Next Generation BKis

Post24 Jan 2017

As I understand it, the events "30 years ago" (?) refer to an experiment in Germany where a centre of primarily young Germans with practically *ZERO* Hinduistic backgrounds (Krishna is not God!!!), decided it did not want to read Sakar Murlis any more but just wanted to base their darna on the latest season's Avyakt Murlis "going more deeply" (their concept not mine) into what they contained.

Again, as the events have not been formally written up and documented, it led to a big stand off between the Kirpalani Klan and Suman who many upheld as every bit as good a BK, or perhaps even better, than Jayanti Kirpalani.

As referred to above, it led to Suman and Surya dropping out (to a certain extent) and being pillarised by the BKWSU establishments (they circulated all sorts of rumours) and a BK centre "failing" ... ending up being shut down.

A battle of wills over the nature of the cult indoctrination.

Unfortunately, like so many issues and incidents in BKism, it's not openly spoken about or spoken out about. The spiritual ethics of it are not discussed, e.g. "who laid the rules down?", "who has the right to determine what is studied?" or "what on earth is the ******* point of telling young Germans 'Krishna is God' and 'become like Lakshmi and Narayan' 10,000 times a year!?!"

I don't know the details. I suppose it came down from the narrow minded fundementalist Janki Kirpalani, enforced by her lieutenant Jayanti Kirpalani. Suman was every bit the "perfect BK Sister" faultless in her following the Maryadas etc. She had poured her life into the BKWSU.

So, there must be another element to this ... that they need or want some kind of acceptance from the inner circle/elite?

Otherwise, why not just take a copy of all the Murlis ... if you really must and believe in them ... and walk. Start your own movement, demand your own access to your BapDada spirits.

The old BKWSU was always a great one for signing MOUs (memorandums of understanding). Sign an "MOU" that give you access to the Murlis and familial visitation rights ... and then divorce yourself from the Kirpalanis.
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Re: "The Shift”: a Meeting in Schauen - Next Generation BKis

Post24 Jan 2017

It's a shame that someone as obviously intelligent as BK Tamasin Ramsay did not choose to do her PhD on that event, or rather than the puff pieces advertisements she writes for the Kirpalani Klan.

There have been other battle of wills between centres and London over their relative independence, often involving 'money' but, to be honest, so what if the BKWSU was to lose the whole of BK Germany ... would it care?

Hardly.

Westerns were useful for a time impressing Indians to follow the BKs. Now they have so much money coming in in India ... are the Western satellites even worth the money it costs to maintain?
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