What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to followers?

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vlakshmi

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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post05 May 2019

Di Rita,

For those who follow the crowd there is no proof but for those who are open-minded can see history repeats every 5000 years.

There is something common between science and scriptures—both teach that entropy rules the material world. Entropy is a measure of the disorder or randomness of a system. Simply put, things move from order to disorder at the passing of time. Situation is like the room we live in—it needs a regular cleaning and regular maintenance, it simply doesn't stay neat on its own. So is the case with system of things on earth—it starts in virtue and ends in vices. Now the question is: At what frequency do such restoration take place, and why do we find different opinions about the duration of each cycle?

In different cultures around the world, we have about 175 flood myths! [Myths are truths conveyed in story-setting] All of them say forces of nature destroyed a morally depraved world, and a new world started thereafter with a few people. Prominent among them is the Bible that says after the dissolution (through flood) the new world started with 8 persons. In India it says a wicked world ended with Mahabharat War in which weapons of mass-destruction were lavishly used with cataclysmic effects, and new system of things started thereafter. Yet beneath the details, both West and East scriptures give a common truth: An OLD WORLD ORDER that became extremely decadent was destroyed through some means, and A NEW WORLD ORDER was brought in.

This cycle of a world becoming old and new is hinted by Jesus. He taught that the world had a perfect start (Mathew 19:4) but it was deteriorated to the point that he lamented about its condition. (Mathew 11:16-24) The present decadent system of things will meet with destruction and new world order will start again. (Mathew 19:28; 24:3, 7, 33-41) That new world order also will be subjected to deterioration after a while. (Mathew 13:33) Thus Jesus was simply repeating what has already been written by Solomon in the early part of the Bible: “What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun. Is there anything of which one can say, ‘Look! This is something new?’ It was here already, long ago; it was here before our time.” (Ecclesiastes 1:9, 10) Interestingly, Jesus called himself as “someone greater than Solomon.” (Mathew 12:42) That means his teaching carried more weight than Solomon’s writings. Hence the question is what is the duration of one cycle?

1) According to Septuagint Bible [Old Testament that was in use at the time of Jesus], ancient world ended and a new world started in the year in 3134 BC (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04702a.htm of Catholic Encyclopedia; 2 Peter 2:5; 3:5-7) Interestingly, this ancient Bible account of a global flood is common to three major religions—Jews, Christians and Muslims. Parallel secular history of Sumerian King list that begins immediately after the Flood “suggests a Flood date close to 3000 BC.”

2) In India it is taught that each Kalpa (cycle of 5000 years) ends with Mahabharat War and a Golden Age would start thereafter. (Bhagavat Gita 4:7) Aryabhatta, the great mathematician and astronomer of India in the 5th century CE, examined the astronomical positions recorded in the Mahabharat, and wrote in his work, the Aryabhattiya, that the approximate date for previous Mahabharat war to be 3100 BCE.

3) Inscription found in the Jain Temple at Aihole prepared by Chalukya King Pulakeshi says that the temple was constructed 3735 years after the Mhabharat War, and 556 years of Saka Era. (Today Saka Era is 1939 while Christian era is 2017). Hence (1939 - 556 = 1383) 1383 years ago the temple was constructed. 1383 years backward from the present year of 2017, we reach 634 AD which is the year of inscribing this. That means in 634 AD, 3735 years had passed from the Mhabharat War. So the date of the Mahabharat War comes (3735 – 634) to 3101 BC. (http://www.jainglory.com/research/meguti; http://www.kerurtown.gov.in/tourism)

4) Dr. E. Vedavyas who surveyed the researches on astronomical dating of Mahabharat done by 120 scholars over the past hundred years, says sixty-one of them fixed the Mahabharat war to have occurred between 3000 and 3200 B.C. (Astronomical Dating of the Mahabharat War, written by . Dr. E Vedavyas, Agam Kala Prakashan, Delhi)
Thus, all the above references show that previous Kalpa ended around 5000 years ago. Going for earlier date would not make sense; because population almost doubles about 50 years [projected world population for the year 2026 is 8 Billion; it was 4 Billion in 1974, and 2 Billion in 1927, according to United States Census Bureau]. If we make a chart backward like 1 Billion in 1874, ½ Billion in 1827 ... you will very soon reach the number of population as just two in less than a few thousand years! People simply do not think the implication of saying that human history is linear and millions of years old. Instead of actual 50 years in which population doubles, try giving 150 years—even then present population would be reached in less than 5000 years!

Thus all evidence points to the fact that the present Kalpa is very close to its expiry date [which is also confirmed by such major threats such as climate change, sea-level rise, accelerated rate of species becoming extinct, increasing number of countries developing nuclear weapons …etc.]. It will end in combined events of 3rd World War, civil wars and natural calamities, following which the next cycle of 5000 years will start with Golden Age as its first phase.

In contrast, books that support theory of evolution may claim that history is linear and millions of years old which they say depending on Carbon dating method. But carbon dating has its problem. Its results vary according to the objects that are made subject to it. It may show the shell of a living freshwater mussel to be aged over two thousand years, and coal, oil, and natural gas that are supposed to be millions of years old may show as aged in the tens of thousands of years. Problems are many with this carbon dating method. One among is that C-14 is forming today faster than it's decaying. And another problem is that earth's magnetic field is decaying exponentially which would affect influx of cosmic rays, which in turn affect C-14 formation rates also. WILLARD LIBBY, WHO INVENTED the C14 dating method to determine the age of biological materials by measuring their carbon-14 activity, found that this method has proven somewhat accurate back to only about 2000 BC, and wrote “that history extended back only 5000 years.” (Libby 1958: 531) (http://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/20 ... px#Article).

Rita

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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post05 May 2019

I am sorry none of the Hindu scripture says 5000 years of cycle. It says each yuga of million of years old. And it does not say 85 births it says 85 lakh births. You have done your own calculations and mixing up things. I have not read any Christian scriptures, I can’t validate that, but whatever you are saying about Hindu Kalpa etc. you have got it wrong. Satya Yuga - 1.728 million years
Treta Yuga - 1.296 million years
Dwapara Yuga - 0.864 million years
Kali Yuga - 0.432 million years
This is according to vedas
You have even got the concept of entropy wrong. I am not a science student. But I know there are constants involved in the theory. If you are taking universe as a system we are just negligible in the system. And if you take only earth as a system, we are part of randomness too. You think that you are different than a piece of grass, that’s where the problem arises. You think you are special. You are even ignorant than the uneducated human beings. You will believe in science when you will find reason to validate your dogmas. Otherwise you won’t believe in science and scientist. One way you say, you are not Hindu and Christians because they are corrupt and when it comes to proving your theory right you give examples of those scriptures. You take words from Hindu scriptures but will not believe in meaning and what’s written. You will just keep on repeating same sentences without any proof. I don’t think you are genuine in conversations, I can make out you are from PR team of BK because you give same scripted answers every time. Even I have seen in other forums too, same kind of baseless and scripted answers.

vlakshmi

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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post05 May 2019

These are proofs for me to be convinced. These are more than enough for me. When Baba says history is endless cycle of 5000 yeays, I look for my own proofs. It seems you did not understand even the very first sentence: "I am open-minded, and I don't follow the crowd."

Rita

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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post05 May 2019

It’s evident from your comments you follow crowd more than us. You follow everything in bits and pieces, you follow Christian scriptures, Hindu and brahmakumaris according to your convenience.

vlakshmi

BK

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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post05 May 2019

Taking truth wherever it is found is what open-mindedness means.

Rita

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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post05 May 2019

Finding truth yourself means open-mindedness, blindly believing in something is not truth. You are part of religious crowd. What I think, truth can’t be found believing in something, explore everything with open eyes and open mind.
For your information “ there is no concept of time in vedas and puranas” time described in vedas as space. Because time is illusion.

vlakshmi

BK

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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post05 May 2019

Hi Rita,
Don't worry, I will help you to understand what open-mindedness means.
I was an orthodox Hindu in the beginning believing Kalpa is of millions of years duration, with its four parts being of the duration as follows:

Satya Yuga - 1.728 million years
Treta Yuga - 1.296 million years
Dwapara Yuga - 0.864 million years
Kali Yuga - 0.432 million years

Then I OPENED MY MIND and started calculating. India’s population was 333 million in 1947, and grew four times and became 1333 million in 2019. It means 4 times growth in just 72 years. Even if I assume that population grows only two times (rather than 4 times) in just 500 (rather than in 72) years, see what happens:

Here is the chart:

Years Population
500 4
1000 8
1500 16
2000 32
2500 64
3000 128
3500 256
4000 512
4500 1024
5000 2048
5500 4096
6000 8192
6500 16384
7000 32768
7500 65536
8000 131072
8500 262144
9000 524288
9500 1048576
10500 2097152
11000 4194304
11500 8388608
12000 16777216
12500 33554432
13000 67108864
13500 134217728
14000 268435456
14500 536870912
15000 1073741824
15500 2147483648
16000 4294967296
16500 8589934592
17500 17179869184
18000 34359738368
18500 68719476736
19000 137438953472
19500 274877906944
20000 549755813888
20500 1099511627776

In such short period as 20500 years, we will have on earth 1099,51,16,27,776 (109951 million) people. And this is only a minuscule part of the population that would have been on earth if we go by Hindu calculation. You are free to complete the Hindu calculation and reach trillions and trillions of population as now living on earth. Not only that by Hindu calculation, by now even the whole universe would have been overflowed with population.

Rita

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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post05 May 2019

Do you think God did this silly calculation before making the world?

You can’t just hold this in numbers.

You are trying to calculate as if nature is working according to human calculations. This calculation is also not accurate as pointed out by ex-l. Your calculations are flawed, you just ignore a few things, and then go on and on with your script. You just can’t use your little subject knowledge, wherever it is convenient.

Your concept of thermodynamics is wrong, Hindu terminology is wrong, wrong meanings of words. What is your Baba’s prediction of aliens and moving to Mars?
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Pink Panther

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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post05 May 2019

vlakshmi wrote:Taking truth wherever it is found is what open-mindedness means.

Taking only the truth that suits what you want to prove is confirmational bias.

A ‘proof' is not what youru faith or what another faith says , otherwise it would not be called faith. A ”proof”, dear fan of etymology, needs something to be tested, to be shown. A ‘fact” is something done, not just something agreed.

Radio-carbon dating is only one of various methods of dating. The range of its accuracy is much greater than you give it credit for, and its limitations known by those who utilise it. You can easily look up Wikipedia and follow the references there if you want to learn about it and see how they worked out its accuracy and margins of error (its not in science;s interests to have a badly calibrated measure) . if you are genuine, I'd avoid sources like creationist christians who have an ulterior motive for what and how they present their ”scientific” arguments.

Here’s the thing about the scientific method - there may be 100 pieces of solid evidence that back up a a theory or belief, but it only needs one piece of solid evidence to disprove it to require the theory or belief to be abandoned or reformulated to account for that new evidence.

The opposite is not true. You cannot say something is definitively proven by one piece of solid evidence or logical (within itself) formula when there’s a hundred pieces of solid evidence to the contrary not accounted for/ ignored in that.

Think like a detective. You have a theory of who committed the crime and you find lots of evidence which points that way. But the suspect has a watertight (undisprovable) alibi (from the greek, meaning ‘absent, missing”) they were elsewhere with witnesses and video to prove it.

If even one piece of indisputable evidence exists that history on earth is more than 5000 years, that blows that idea.If you were in a debating team and had to present the case that the earth’s story goes back further than 5000 years, I am sure you could present an indisputable case - if you wanted to.
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ex-l

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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post05 May 2019

Rita wrote:@vlakshmi

The words explained by you have wrong meanings. Why haven’t you clarified them with your Sanskrit scholar friend?

You are correct, Rita, and it is very concerning. Vlakshmi's definitions - and even conceptions of elements of BKism - are their own, and made up nonsense for the most part.

A word like "Shudra" - and its contrasting with the self-claimed superior status of BK followers as "Brahmins" - carry huge degrees of connotation, or baggage, within India.

Every Indian knows immediately what someone calling themselves "Brahmin", and all others "Shudras", means.

Shudras means lowest caste, not fit for the study and understanding of knowledge (originally the Vedas), not sufficiently intelligent, low level labours whose duty it was to serve the other castes, peasants, slaves and serfs who sprung from the feet (impure) of Brahma; and "low" is a word Vlakshmi/Golden Heart has constantly used, eg "low understanding ... low level".

It is a bit like me claiming the word "nigger" was not a bad one, but came from the root "Nice Indigenous Gentleman" ... to put it into in an English equivalent, the BKs are basically saying,
"We are Whites, everyone else is a nigger" ... and, as with classical varna system,
niggers will always - for eternity - be niggers (non-BK will always be shudras)

And, remember, we ex-BKs are "the lowest of the low" (Murli quote)

And this is typical of their attitude to work and to others, eg "the scientists will serve you". That is, you don't have to go and do the hard work, just be and they will do the labour.

Baba's "princesses" ... a far better translation for Kumaris, if we are going to be accurate ... are indoctrinated with an attitude of entitlement. Do nothing and the Shudra world will serve you, then in the Golden Age, nature will serve you. In their youth, Lekhraj Kirpalani served them.

Daughter is बेटी or betee, duhitṛ दुहितृ in sanskrit.

Rita

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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post05 May 2019

You are right, ex-l.

Kumari means princess & they have even used the word Prajapita in place of prajapati.

Why do they have a problem with pati word, which means husband? They have changed it to pita which means Father.

There is no such word as prajapita.

oldbk

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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post05 May 2019

vlakshmi wrote:These are proofs for me to be convinced. These are more than enough for me. When Baba says history is endless cycle of 5000 yeays, I look for my own proofs. I

@vlakshmi

Hmmm ... interesting ... "Baba says history is endless cycle of 5000 years", AND "YOU LOOK FOR YOUR OWN PROOFS" !!!

Of course, why not ??? You are talking like a "pukka" BK, so you are following one of the fundamentals of BKism, ie "DO NOT QUESTION WHAT Baba IS SAYING, JUST FOLLOW".

Next you are providing "POPULATION STATISTICS" in detail (which is, of course, nonsense).

Again, Interesting ... "Baba says ... DO NOT GO INTO EXPANSION" and "YOU DO EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE".

Of course, why not ??? You are talking like a "pukka" BK, so you are following one of the fundamentals of BKism, ie "DO NOT GO INTO EXPANSION, LOOK INSIDE (unthar Mukh)" and "YOU DO EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE".
“Severe punishment for those who belong to the Father and then do disservice, the Father's right hand is Dharamraj — Murli 12.9.2016

... (Sound familiar ????)
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ex-l

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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post05 May 2019

Rita wrote:Kumari means princess & ... prajapati means husband? They have changed it.

One question to you, Rita, and other native Hindi speakers.

Does an Indian look at "Brahma Kumaris" and think princess or daughter?

I think this is another typical con the BKs have carried out re-marketing themselves to the West.

They do still use the concept of Lekhraj Kirpalani or Baba as a husband in the Murlis.

One of the early criticisms of Lekhraj Kirpalani, that are being disingenuously repeated regarding Virendra Dev Dixit (because the BKs are behind the attacks on him) is that Lekhraj Kirpalani wanted 16,108 wives copying the Krishna he thought he was. This was in the period between 1930s and 1956, before they first introduced the "Shiva spirit" as a god. Therefore, for the first 20 odd years (circa 1932 to 1956), Lekhraj Kirpalani was the husband and they were his princess brides.

They continue the ritual of marrying off young virgins to Baba to this day in mass ceremonies (during which they take all of their dowry wealthy). They dress them up as brides for one day, in mock gold ... paid for by the real gold they took.

And there you have the perfect metaphor for BKism.
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ex-l

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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post05 May 2019

Look, with regards vlakshmi, I would like to start over again with them and for us to try and be nice and reasonable.

I don't want this to end up as a "Beat up a BK" episode.

However, that reasonableness needs to matched by Vlakshmi too. They need to show they can be honest and reasonable.

BKs get beaten up here *because* they are unreasonable, and act unreasonably. Part of being reasonable includes refusing to answer direct questions honestly and personally, admitting they are wrong when they are, or that they do not know or cannot know when they don't; and being honest.

We are not "anti-BK", we are pro- truth, fact, objectivity, accountability etc. Positive qualities.

Astroturfing the forum with potted BK responses is unreasonable behaviour and will lead individuals to bad reactions from others damaged by BKism.

Pretending their own manmat is BK Shrimat, and refusing to admit or correct it, is also unreasonable behaviour ... at least, if you are a BK, stick to BKism; or admit what are your own creations.

And, lastly, pretending your own made up meanings and definitions are classical Hindu or Vedic, to Westerners who might not know them ... is a huge insult to Westerners, 1 billion + Hindus and 1,000s of years of tradition, therefore if you want to discuss related issues, please use authoritive references. Even if you think the authors are just ignorant, sleeping Shudras.

Sorry, we deal in the real world here.
What is astroturfing?

Astroturfing is the attempt to create an impression of widespread grassroots support for a policy, individual, or product, where little such support exists. Multiple online identities and fake pressure groups are used to mislead the public into believing that the position of the astroturfer is the commonly held view.
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Pink Panther

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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post06 May 2019

The redefining of words and the content of the posts makes me think vlakshmi is not a psychiatrist either.
Maybe s/he is just reinterpreting that word too, having once heard that it literally means "soul-doctor” (although TBH psyche is not exactly "soul”) and that, as a Murli or senior might say (maybe even did once) that BKs are therefore the "true psychiatrists”? I put nothing past them when it comes to the credentials they present to the world. They think it's a joke. I have seen it and been part of it.
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