What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to followers?

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vlakshmi

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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post08 May 2019

Hi ex-l,
a)My answers are sincere—problem is that you don’t consider it as sincere because I am BK

b) Now you ask: "Dinosaurs aren't real because the one that led to the development of the field was a single tooth". What is your point, to cast doubt upon the science because the first fossil was not a complete animal? Why would that discount it?"

Regarding Dinosaurs, I can give you many problems which will not arise in the case of true science—to list a few:

(1) The dinosaur-fossil are often incomplete bone sets which then paleontologists have constructed a hypothesis about the appearance of the whole skeleton; thus the dinosaur bones on display at museums are frequently just plaster casts;

(2) Throughout the history, many varieties of people have dug the earth for various purposes and none of them found any dinosaur fossils which were like waiting for evolutionists.

(3) The discovery of its soft tissue (including stretchy ligaments with identifiable proteins, flexible transparent branching blood vessels, with the easily identifiable remains of red blood cells, even showing the nuclei, typical of reptiles, inside these vessels) by Paleontologist Mary Schweitzer which made worldwide headlines in 2005 proves that the dinosaur fossils cannot be millions of years old.

(4) Even the supporters themselves have difficulties in understanding the details, hence they make many mistakes in the movies they make about dinosaurs which make paleontologists mad. (http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/06 ... 83384.html)

(5) There are many other difficulties raised by opponents against dinosaur details.

Now the question arises:
Which group is right? Both the groups may not be right and truth could be in between because of the following reasons: Evolutionists believe that history is linear. And if history is linear, then the event that led to the mass extinction of dinosaurs could have led to the extinction of other species too. Yet other species survived which means history is not linear.
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ex-l

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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post08 May 2019

vlakshmi wrote:Throughout the history, many varieties of people have dug the earth for various purposes and none of them found any dinosaur fossils which were like waiting for evolutionists.

Not true.

For thousands of years, the Chinese have been using them as medicine.

Schweitzer is not just a pioneering paleontologist but also an evangelical Christian which are two entirely contradictory systems.

I have no idea the current state of debate but BKs cannot use Christian Creationist examples and beliefs because they too contradict BKism, and vice versa.

This is what I am talking about when I write [intellectual] sincerity or integrity. You cannot base an argument on multiple contradictory (opposite) claims and statements.

If you have an alternative model for evolution/dinosaurs, then write it and prove it ... how did they end up deep with layers or rock, how did rock get made, over what time frame etc.
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vlakshmi

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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post08 May 2019

Don't just say "Not true. For thousands of years, the Chinese have been using them as medicine."

Kindly provide proof.
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ex-l

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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post08 May 2019

Try Google ... BBC: Dinosaur bones 'used as medicine' or Dragon Teeth Fossils in Chinese Medicine.
From, 'Children of the Yellow Earth: Studies in Prehistoric China'.

According to the ancient pharmacopoeia many diseases may be cured by dragon’s bone: dysentery, gall-stones, fevers and convulsions in children at the breast, internal swellings, paralysis, women’s diseases, malaria, etc.

Dragon’s teeth are also highly esteemed as medicine, and according to the oldest medical work, written by the mythological emperor Sheng Nung (Shennong), dragon’s teeth drive out the following afflictions: spasms, epilepsy and madness and the twelve kinds of convulsions in children.

Also in Latin America ... The First Report on the Medicinal Use of Fossils in Latin America.

Scientists are currently proposing the formalization of a new discipline called ethnopaleontology to study it. You will find it is universal and that they were used for other things like art and artfacts, eg carving mammoth tusks (if you include mammoths).

Therefore, if your theory was that palaeoanthropology invented fossils in rock by the power of their minds, it has just been debunked.

--

It turns out Schweitzer does not claim dinosaurs are not millions of years old.

It is just that her research has been hijacked by “young earth” creationists, who insist that dinosaur soft tissue couldn’t possibly survive millions of years. Her discovery wasn't discovered because no one thought to do what she did, and stick fossils in acid to break them down.

--

I apologise for being blunt but you need to start accepting your use of logic is not great, and your mental foundations are not good.

It seems your best argument is just try and seed doubts, like the Christian Creationists do.

It's a trend I have seen develop within BKs, borrowed from Christian fundementalists, whose beliefs entirely contradict BKism.

Another borrowed concept or strategy.


Ditto, many of what you think are "BK beliefs", are actually not BK beliefs. They are still Bhakti.
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vlakshmi

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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post08 May 2019

Some fossils found medicinal use. So what? How does it prove dinosaurs?
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Rita

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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post08 May 2019

Those fossils are of dinosaur’s.

You don’t believe in science, don’t believe in evolution. But to prove your point you believe in entropy to the half knowledge of thermodynamics.
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vlakshmi

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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post08 May 2019

Entropy is our experience, and Evolution is theory--that is why it is rightly called THEORY of evolution.
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Rita

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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post08 May 2019

Still a scientific theory is an in-depth explanation of the observed phenomenon, so you do not believe in any scientific theories until you experience?

But you will believe in anything which is written in brainwashing Murlis, said by uneducated diamond merchant?
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ex-l

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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post08 May 2019

Correct. When scientists use the word “theory,” they don’t always mean a well-established idea that is supported by a broad range of evidence. Theory in science has a differemt ,eaning from common use.

The second law of thermodynamics states that entropy, a measure of randomness, cannot decrease in a closed or isolated system. Our planet is not a closed or isolated system.
vlakshmi wrote:Some fossils found medicinal use. So what? How does it prove dinosaurs? ...

Meet Sue, aged 28. She was the largest, most extensive and best preserved Tyrannosaurus rex specimen ever found. Is she proof enough, or just a theory? Her head is 54" long.

You were going to go to write something about fossils not being found, or only being found by fraudsters ... I don't know. Is this a fraud too?

"Evolution is only theory" is another device or strategy, intent on seeding doubt within the uneducated, borrowed from Christian Fundementalists.
Entropy is our experience, and Evolution is theory--that is why it is rightly called THEORY of evolution.

OK, if you are sincere, explain on the basis of the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, how the entire Universe resets itself to return to the atomically perfect position it was 5,000 years ago ... how it specifically calculates the 5,000 years to do so, and what is the mechanism by which it resets.

Never mind the 'how' even, where does the physical energy come from to do so? You could make a simple calculation to estimate how much energy it would require ... but it would be impossibly huge.

Then you could consider the effects of such a huge influx of physical energy into the Universe within ... how long? 17 years until the Golde Age.

Except that it cannot be 17 years because you have to build the Golden Aged palaces, make the technology, plant the gardens, evolve the magical species of animals etc etc etc ... so how long does this influx of energy take?

Please tell me.

You refer to the Second Law, however, all exchanges of energy are subject to inefficiencies, such as friction and radiative heat loss, which increase the entropy of the system being observed. Therefore, the scientific view is there is no such thing as a perfectly reversible process.

You quote bits of "science" as if it was a magical token ... then ignore huge swathes of it. To jump form a "we are born, get old, die ... therefore the Universe is 5,000 years old and repeats identically" is so HUGELY unscientific that it crushes all credibility.

If you are willing to discuss these matters sincerely, and be willing to change your beliefs and position where they are shown to be false or impossible, I am happy to do so.

I am not attacking you ... I, too, once was once trapped by BK beleifs. I am showing you how irrational and distorted they have made your mind. I am holding up a mirror for you to see what they have done to you ... which is make you a functional crazy person that they can exploit.

Functional to earn money and perform simple functions, crazy enough to exploit you as much as they can.

Tyrannosaurus_rex_Sue.jpg
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vlakshmi

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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post09 May 2019

Let us resume this discussion after evolutionists and the ENTIRE community of scientists accomplish a simple task.

Let them create a mustard seed that sprouts when planted in which memory of all future generations of that mustard tree remains protected.
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Rita

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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post09 May 2019

@vlakshmi

Why don’t you stick to one topic and answer. It means you agree with from dinosaurs, you are jumping to mustard seed. Don’t you agree to dinosaur’s existence?
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ex-l

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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post09 May 2019

vlakshmi wrote:Let them create a mustard seed that sprouts when planted in which memory of all future generations of that mustard tree remains protected.

If you mean create life, it has already been done ... How biologists are creating life-like cells from scratch (Nature), or Artificial life breakthrough after scientists create new living organism using synthetic DNA.

It is not possible to have a memory of the future.

But why stop at mustard seeds? China has cloned a police dog, and Korea has already created a pack of them ... which is interesting if you factor in how memory is passed down by DNA for many generations. A fact that should raise profound questions for the spiritually minded, eg "past lives" or just DNA?


But your argument is, again, an fallacious non sequitur - meaning a statement that does not logically follow from the previous discussion - a low level distraction and an insincere non-answer. It is not a paleontologist's job to make mustard seeds ... and it does not make sense because the BK Baba does not make mustard seeds either.

It is an argument that comes from those who believe god makes all life.

But now that it has been shown others are making life ... are you going to change your position?

You have been explained why the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics (entropy) does not universally apply to life on earth ... are you going to change your position?


A godman or spirit can make any pronouncement they want and claim, "it is true because I say it is true" (circular reasoning); and then when it is proven 'not to be true', their followers just say, "ah, but our god spirit was just testing you ... our god spirit just said that to encourage you".

Even these are just excuses, strategies borrowed from Bhakti.

They claim for decades their god spirit is the Ocean of Knowledge ... then when he is proven wrong time and time again they say, "ah ... but not that knowledge, only this knowledge" and make up excuses - some outright lies - for his shortcomings .. their "Ocean" is shrinking.

So how and when was Sue the dinosaur created according to the Ocean of Knowledge?
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vlakshmi

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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post09 May 2019

Hi ex-l,

What you wrote is all about modification, not creation.
--------------------------------------------------------------

Now back to the point Rita raised:

Hi Rita,

I am not jumping into another subject—it is very much connected. I will show how.

IF DINOSAURS DID EXIST, THEY ALWAYS EXISTED IN THE FIRST HALF OF EVERY CYCLE, AND IT ONLY SUPPORTS BK teaching — I will show how.

When there are two camps regarding the existence of dinosaurs, the question arises, which group is right?

What if both the groups are not right, but truth lies in between because of the following reasons:

Evolutionists believe that history is linear. And if history is linear, then the event that led to the mass extinction of dinosaurs could have led to the extinction of other species too -— especially giant (Indonesian) komodo dragons, lizards and crocodiles that look almost similar to them?’ (https://www.livescience.com/9726-origin ... ealed.html). Yet other species survived which means history is not linear.

If history is not linear, then it must be cyclical (like everything else such as day and night, seasons, water cycle, yugas ... etc). Our experience shows that quality of life and environment is getting worse and worse as time passes which means history had a perfect start. Thus history is cyclical with
    first half being perfect (characterized by small human population and vast environment)
    and second half being imperfect (characterized by increasing population and depleting resources).
Requirement of first perfect half cannot be known now, and also, age of a fossil that belong to the perfect first half cannot correctly be ascertained in the imperfect second half because of CONTRASTING ECOSYSTEMS. Just like huge whales coexist with small fishes in the ocean, huge beings can coexist with humans in the first perfect half of the history, in harmony, taking care of special needs of that period.

When each cycle revolves, perfect half falls into imperfect half. When such a perfect system suffers a fall, everything turns upside down with catastrophic changes taking place in every sphere. Getting killed by accidents (small and big such as natural calamities), killing on purpose (some of the humans and some of the animals began to eat the flesh of other species), some of the constructive micro organisms turning into destructive agents causing various diseases ... were some of those catastrophic changes.

When heaven-like situation changed into hell-like situation, it was like a change from order to disorder, and the world began to be called duniya (place where law and logic no longer rule the lives of people, which highlights the impure attitude of the inhabitants). When healthy thinking which resulted in healthy body and healthy environment changed into harmful thinking it would have corresponding results in bodies and environment. It means change happened everywhere—in attitude, in thinking ... and even within DNA of some beings which means disorder began to manifest in various forms—sometimes gigantism and dwarfism even among same species, big species becoming small and vice versa.

Implication of change in DNA has already been shown by Genetic Engineering (process of changing DNA in order to bring about certain characteristics in a living thing). Some of the wonders it has produced include things such as bigger, longer-lasting vegetables, trees that could absorb dirty water and make it clean again before the water is released into the air, trees that grow super-fast so that they can create stronger, higher quality wood, genetically modified plants (like grapple that is an apple that tastes exactly like a like a grape), salmon that grows faster, genetically modified animals ... etc.

Changes happen when situation calls for such changes. For example, when such changes as extinction of species involved in a food-chain happens, “biodiversity also lends genetic variability to a population, helping it adapt to fluctuating environmental conditions.” (https://sciencing.com/
happens-something-food-chain-goes-extinct-18214.html)

In other words, big species such as DINOSAURS (if they really existed) SERVED SOME PURPOSE IN THE FIRST HALF OF EACH CYCLE OF HISTORY.

That special purpose is over when history entered the imperfect second half and dinosaurs were no longer needed, which means dinosaurs could go extinct or become small like birds or lizard. Interestingly, dinosaurs mean just big lizard in ancient languages such as Latin, Greek [deinos = terrible + sauros = lizard] etc.

This means if dinosaurs fossil of a trillion trillion year old appeared also, it only reiterates BKgyan because according to BK-teaching history is endless cycle of blocks of 5000-years duration. 5000 year history is just like a still photo taken out from an endless movie.

An analytical mind (who is not a BK) can also reach almost the same conclusion about history and see history is cyclical if he/she looks for IMPLIED TRUTH behind the following sure truths such as:
    1) Everything is transformation of energy; energy is eternal; and nothing happens without something preceding to it, which means history has an infinite past;

    2) There is order in the nature such as earth being fine-tuned for the life, which proves God exists;

    3) There is the natural law of increasing disorder, entropy [which stipulates that all systems in the real world tend to go "downhill," as it were, toward disorganization and decreased complexity, which can be likened to what happens to a building that tends to deteriorate as the time passes by and that doesn't stay neat or new on its own — it means building needs to be re-constructed in the end].
The implied truth in all these is that disorder can arise from order (not vice versa); and things that are new become old as the time passes (not vice versa). The system of things on earth was new then and became old now—it does not remain eternally new or eternally old/decadent. THAT MEANS AT SOME REGULAR INTERVAL, ORIGINAL STATE IS RESTORED which means history is a never-ending cycle of elevation and eventual decline.

What became old can be renewed only by the intervention of a Supreme Being. Interestingly, this is the unmistakable truth conveyed in the famous and ancient symbol of God (Shiva Linga). In the term linga, 'la' indicates dissolution (laya) of old system of things while 'Golden Age' stands for arrival (agamana) of new system of things. In other words, this great symbol conveys two phases (ascending and descending) of each Kalpa and also highlights the two roles God Shiva plays, between each Kalpa, as the Illuminator and Elevator of mankind.

Just like the certainty of a next generation-tree is a sure guarantee because of the seed its previous generation-tree left behind, certainty of arrival of next Kalpa is absolutely sure because seed of the Kalpa tree is Supreme Soul: “I am the Seed of the whole Kalpa tree” which means Golden Age would arrive with the same ease a present tree came from a seed of a past tree, and if present tree is real, it means future tree is also real.

It is in this context that ex-l was asking me:
“explain on the basis of the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, how the entire Universe resets itself to return to the atomically perfect position it was 5,000 years ago ... ...”

Such too big big things belong to God BECAUSE EVOLUTIONISTS AND ENTIRE COMMUNITY OF SCIENTISTS — EVEN WITH ALL THEIR RESOURCES AND TIME -- CANNOT CREATE EVEN A MUSTARD SEED. [I am talking about CREATION, not about modification of some seed already existing].

Theories are just explanations from different angles against which there will be always counter explanations.

ANTONY FLEW was a hard-core atheist propagandist for over 50 years—but when he revisited the DNA complexities he changed to become a believer in God—and atheists community began to taunt and tease him.

FRANCIS COLLINS was an atheist, and became an eminent scientist, physician-geneticist who discovered the genes associated with a number of diseases and led the Human Genome Project, also the director of the National Institutes of Health in Bethesda, Maryland, United States. When he declared his belief in God through his famous book “Language of God” he too was began to be taunted and teased by peer scientists (which means most Scientists are like ordinary human being who wants to go by convenience, rather than conviction).

Hence whatever scientists say may not be always scientific just like whatever a joker says may not be always a joke.

For example, when scientists explain big subjects such as Big Bang theory, if you ask them about the singularity that existed before Big Bang they will go mystical like religionists.

HENCE,

Before explaining such big subjects as origin of universe ... or the other too wonderful subject such as drama of life starting as a single-celled organism from pure matter and through varied species ... mammoth species such as dinosaurs ... and finally reaching 7.71 billion human beings (nearly half of them worshipping God), let them prove their AUTHORITY by doing a simple task:

Let evolutionists and the ENTIRE community of scientists put all their resources and time to accomplish simple task--Let them create a mustard seed that sprouts when planted and becomes a mustard tree which leaves plenty of mustard seeds in which memory of all future generations of that mustard tree remains protected.

If they can’t, them it means it can be done only by God, the Master Seed.
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Rita

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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post09 May 2019

Heights of ignorance. I don’t know what are you writing. Please stay stick to your ignorance, all the best!
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vlakshmi

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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post09 May 2019

Hi Rita,

That is the right response--you don't know, and scientists too don't know how to create a mustard seed.

So, as I said -- let the scientists do a 100% creation of a too small and too simple thing as a mustard seed, then we will resume our discussion.
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