What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to followers?

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ex-l

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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post09 May 2019

vlakshmi wrote:IF DINOSAURS DID EXIST ... DINOSAURS (if they really existed) ...

What do you mean "if dinosaurs did exist"? Are you saying that there were carnivorous Tyrannosaurus Rex in the Golden Age? I am waiting for you to claim dinosaur and other fossils were created by the power of someone's mind.
What you wrote is all about modification, not creation.

And, no, I think you need to read the first links again ... "How biologists are creating life-like cells from scratch .. Built from the bottom up" ... if you don't accept cloning. I don't think mustard seeds are a priority.


Again, you start your argument with a false premise, "Evolutionists believe that history is linear".

That's not true.

What happened before the Big Bang, when the Big Crunch will happen, what happens after that is not their job, it is not their speciality. They are only dealing with one small part of it. They stick to what they know and can prove.

Bang-Crunch-Bang-Crunch sounds pretty cyclic to me ... it's just a lot longer timeframe than the BKs' version and, hence, a lot more likely (and, coincidentally, closer to classical Hinduism). Science is pretty open about before and after the current cycle. It's not more of a straight line than BKism is.

What is linear is the Christian faith-based model of Creationism that you are borrowing ideas, examples and strategies from.

I think this is an area where you are confused between the claims made of the Christian God, and the BK God.

By your own logic ... can the BK god spirit make mustards seeds? If not, then surely he is not God.

Nor can the BK god spirit provide the physical energy required to reverse time and space to a state 5,000 years ago.
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ex-l

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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post09 May 2019

vlakshmi wrote:If they can’t, them it means it can be done only by God, the Master Seed ... let the scientists do a 100% creation of a too small and too simple thing as a mustard seed, then we will resume our discussion.

But this is not BKism. BKism does not teach that their god spirit creates mustard seeds either.

So what are you talking about?

You've got a crazy mix of BKism, Christian Fundementalism, and your own manmat there.
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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post09 May 2019

@vlakshmi

I said, I do not understand what you wrote. You are living in ancient world. Science has reached to the extent that it is exploring going to other planets and you are stuck with dinosaurs, mustard seeds and 5000 years cycle. Do you even understand time?

You are so blind that you know everything. I am sure you believe in flat earth. I pity your patients.
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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post09 May 2019

Vlakshmi,

there are actual topics elsewhere on this forum you can search out and continue this debate about dinosaurs ... please, after you have read the previous contributions if you don't mind, to avoid repetition.

Re: China - 1/4 of the world’s population, for nearly all of its history, one of the great powers in the world, three great spiritual traditions with multi-millions of followers not mentioned nor shown on the Kalpa tree or Cycle or anything.

But let's look at what is on those "divine revelations”. before Western BKs cleaned them up, who gets shown?

Open this link in a new window as you read maybe?

BKs Did Not Know Judaism.jpg
BKs Did Not Know Judaism.jpg (112.36 KiB) Viewed 878 times

The ”Islamic Dynasty by Abraham 2500 yrs ago" and "Christian Dynasty by Christ 2000 years ago” then further it shows Muslim Dynasty by Mohamed. Judaism is called Islam?

We see ”panths, cults or sects”, ”samajs or Isms”, ”maths and mandals”, ”societies” and ”ashrams” all get a branch each - but nothing at all from China, Africa. The Americas, Oceania - or especially the world’s longest continuous culture, the Australian Aboriginals.

This is chauvinism or parochialism. At the very least.

A most human failing that only those with the same mindset would accept as authoritative.

Maybe ignorance is a better excuse but not a good one for the Ocean of Knowledge and Father of ALL souls.
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vlakshmi

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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post09 May 2019

Hi Pink Panther,

1) CHINA

China not being mentioned in the Kalpa tree has become a stumbling block to you whereas it is not at all an issue for the Chinese BKs. I have some Chinese BK Sisters as my friends. They say that the very fact that people of North-Eastern states (Sikkim, Meghalaya, Assam, Nagaland, Missoram, Manipur, Tripura ...) look exactly like Chinese people physically shows that once these people were together without a barrier. Interestingly both India and China did not have any wars until very recently. The very fact that Buddhism easily spread to China shows that in ancient time both the countries were in peaceful relations. Though both India and China have two different religions (Hinduism and Confucianism respectively), they are two of the most peaceful religions on the planet. Both have same goal—to bring order in human existence, reason, morality, humanity, strict policies on education and social status—but differed only in the lesser aspect--the method in which the aim is to be accomplised.

2) JUDAISM and Islam

Ishmael is the figure known in Judaism, Christianity, and Islam as Abraham's (Ibrahim) son, born to Hagar (Hajar). In Islam, Ishmael is regarded as a prophet (nabi) and an ancestor to Muhammad. He also became associated with Mecca and the construction of the Kaaba. That means the history of the Muslim peoples, according to the Bible, begins with the prophet Abraham and his descendants through Ishmael, his firstborn son. Abraham's first born son by Hagar (the Egyptian) was Ishmael. Abraham was given a special promise that the descendants of Ishmael would start and become a great nation: “As for Ishmael, I have heard you; behold, I will bless him and make him fruitful and multiply him exceedingly; he shall be the Father of twelve princes, and I will make him a great nation.” (Genesis 17:20)

And this Abraham is also the progenitor of the Jewish nation (Judaism) through his son, Isaac (chronologically second son, but from his first wife, Sarah)

In other words, both Judaism and Islam are inseparably connected—both originated from two sons of Abraham.
The above minute details are not important in the picturization of Kalpa tree because Kalpa tree is to show that it had a pure, root population, planted in the Concluding phase of each Kalpa which will grow through Golden Age and Silver Age, but will suffer a Fall declining in qualities with religious leaders appearing in the second half of the Kalpa.

Subjects such as Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, China ... all belong to the comparatively less significant side of Kalpa tree because second half of the Kalpa is all about great Fall, Decline, details of which do not deserve close attention. It is like describing about what happened to two sons of a business man—elder son grew to glory imitating the Father, but the second Father committed suicide, details of which do not deserve close attention. First half is more important because it is all about positivity and second half is all about virtues gradually going absent from world scene. Second half is filled with people such as atheists and theists who are theists only in form, but are like atheists in function because they teach/believe god-dishonoring doctrines such as eternal hell-fire, God's omnipresence ... etc.
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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post09 May 2019

Pink Panther wrote:Open this link in a new window as you read maybe?

That poster is circa 1966. It was made at the same time as Destruction was in 10 years and Confluence Age was 40 years.

Now, Lekhraj Kirpalani died in 1969 therefore, by BK theory, he was close to perfection AND their god spirit was still speaking through it "purest" medium. The BKs believed their Baba was present in Lekhraj Kirpalani at all times and the two so similar they could not tell the different ... "there are two engines in this Chariot (body)" Lekhraj Kirpalani used to claim.

So, as Pink asked, why did not the BK god spirit not know about Judaism and Jews, and how could he make such a fundamental mistake as to not know the difference, and to consider Islam and Muslims are two separate religions?

How can he be "God"? This is not a minor error that can be overlooked.
Rita wrote:I said, I do not understand what you wrote ... You are so blind that you know everything. I am sure you believe in flat earth. I pity your patients.

I think what they are doing here is just practising their mental blocks ... testing their strategies to block out reasonable doubts.

Mental blocks that are part-Hindu, part-BK, part-Christian fundamentalist ... on top of a personal foundation that has a very poor grasp of logic and reasonableness.

Their line about China and "the victors writing history" might be the belief that the BKs/Indians are the ultimate victors according to the BK philosophy and the Chinese don't convert to BKism, so they lose and get written out.

I could deconstruct their delusions about "India" and "China" being peaceful ... historically, it is utter nonsense "India" as one did not exist until the British left and was constantly at war with itself, and wiped out the Buddhist; and the peace between the two nations was because it as separated from China by the Himalayas; China was also constantly at war with itself, and exceptionally vicious wars too ... but what is the point?

They don't want to think or learn. They won't answer straight questions with straight answers.
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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post09 May 2019

vlakshmi wrote:The above minute details are not important ... Subjects such as Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, China ... do not deserve close attention ... suicide, details of which do not deserve close attention.

Amazing ... a clinical psychiatrist who believes that to know the details of a suicide "does not deserve close attention".

There we have it folks, the BK mind at work. This is how a brainwashed person thinks and defends their brainwashing.

Prove them or their god wrong or deeply deficient ... and all you get told is the anomalies (and 1/4 of the world's population) are not important.

Ask for a straight answer regarding their beliefs, like their population figures ... and get pages of nonsense avoiding the facts.

Show them a picture of a Tyrannosaurus Rex ... and they say it does not exist.

Welcome to the BK mind.
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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post09 May 2019

Hi ex-l

You wrote: “to know the details of a suicide "does not deserve close attention", and say this is the proof of “how a brainwashed person thinks and defends their brainwashing.”

I was saying this:
You came to know about the history of two sons of a business man.
One son perfectly copied his Father and made it to his glory.
Other son travelled in opposite direction and committed suicide in the end.
And now you are trying to motivate your listeners, and you will naturally think the following:
Details about the first son is more important than that of the second son.

You make sense if the subject is about why people commit suicide. Subject is all about two sides of the Kalpa which I compared to two sons.
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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post09 May 2019

That’s called delusion. BKs are deluded by half knowledge. One can not convince them. Because here they feel superior with no reason.
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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post09 May 2019

Rita wrote:One can not convince them. Because here they feel superior with no reason.

You are correct. It is all about sustaining an unchallengeable belief about one's "supreme" superiority ... without having to do anything to even acquire it.

From the early documents until today, it remains the same, it is enough to to believe unquestioningly.
vlakshmi wrote:the proof of “how a brainwashed person thinks and defends their brainwashing” ... Subject is all about two sides of the Kalpa which I compared to two sons.

We know how the BKs are taught to think, eg "If you mother dies, eat halva". What they call detachment is the ultimate, unfeeling insensitivity.

And your analogy does not make sense from a BK point of view.

According to BKism, souls born in the second half of the Kalpa can never make it into the first. They don't commit a spiritual suicide, it was predestined "fixed in Drama" to happen every 5,000 years. There's no question of them choosing to not follow the BK god spirit. No question of escape for them.

And still no explanation from you about how a universe can reset itself identically every 5,000 years according to the law of entropy. The law of entropy states that it cannot be identical and every other cycle you mention exhibits irregularity.

Most listeners would think you are brainwashed and not avoiding answering questions. I don't think it is as simple as that. I think you've taken your core state of mind and applied BKism (mixed with a bit of Christianity) onto it, and BKism is holding your personal development back.

'Responding with non-answers' and 'answering' are two separate things.
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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post10 May 2019

Hi ex-l,

1) You wrote: “We know how the BKs are taught to think, eg "If you mother dies, eat halva". What they call detachment is the ultimate, unfeeling insensitivity.”

This is not about insensitivity. It is told to the BKs who attend Murli class who are deeply convinced about eternally repeating drama of life. When I heard it first time in the Murli class I understood its essence behind those words. It’s all about asking us to view the death of a beloved one as a natural event — an event that took place under the influence of many factors and forces (discernible and indiscernible) — and in which soul changes its worn out costume to take a new one elsewhere — just like one changes his dress and puts on another one — an act it has done billions of time in the past and will be doing billions of time in the future. Even if one dies apparently prematurely, this too can be seen as natural with no need of sinking the ship in the ocean of sorrow, so to say. Because in view of eternity, one dies after/before 20 years, 10 years or after 10 minutes is not important.

2) You wrote: “And your analogy does not make sense from a BK point of view ... souls born in the second half of the Kalpa can never make it into the first ...it was predestined fixed in Drama to happen every 5,000 years. There's no question of them choosing ...”

The very fact that you chose to enter BK-ism and chose to exit BK-sim shows that there is choice.

The very fact God says if a BK engages in vices, he/she will no longer be BK, will forfeit his/her inheritance shows that there is choice.

Point to be noticed is that everyone is thinking that he is making choice, but in fact each one is only UNFOLDING according to his sanskar — which is, of course, fixed — BUT FIXED BY WHOM? — BY THE INDIVIDUAL HIMSELF.

For example, three persons go to ice cream parlor and each one “chooses” ice-cream according to his taste — each ice-cream in different taste and different flavor. Superficially, it would look that each one is choosing, but in reality each one is only unfolding according to his sanskar — he does things he enjoys doing.

Another example: One person is trying to cross a road in a busy street, and found an old lady who is blind too wants to cross the road. Though he wanted to pass as though he did not see her, he thought he is planning to contest election in the future — hence if I help this blind old lady, that will be an investment toward my good-will build-up. And he helps her. This too is not a choice in its real sense because he was doing this favor as an expression of his deep-rooted selfishness which is his original sanskar which is fixed—and he will always act in that fixed way of selfishness. Water goes upward as vapor when boiled — this is a temporary behavior under special circumstance. Remove that special circumstance, water will show its original sanskar of flowing downward. Humans too act in a fixed way so long as they are in body-consciousness.

Typical example is the wife of my client who came to me seeking advice on his plan of divorce. His wife is an air hostess by profession, but he wanted to divorce her because of her aggressive, rough behavior back at home — just opposite to her sweet, soft and lovely behavior towards passengers in the plane. I advised him “not to divorce her because her rough behavior with husband and dear and beloved ones is her original sanskar which she takes delight in. You are not the object of her behavior, she is only unfolding according to her sanskar.” And his problem with her wife is no longer viewed as a problem, but is viewed as her sanskar by him. Thus every one is unique, having unique sanskar which means people will act in a fixed way when under no pressure, but may act differently only under pressure.

This is true in the case of nations too. 11 countries (such as Switzerland ...) have never taken part in any wars in all their history, and other nations do not learn from this good example. There are countries such as Germany which opted for reunion. But this good example has no effect on other countries (such as South Korea and North Korean).

3) You wrote: “And still no explanation from you about how a universe can reset itself identically every 5,000 years according to the law of entropy. The law of entropy states that it cannot be identical and every other cycle you mention exhibits irregularity.”

God makes his descent in the concluding phase of each Kalpa TO TRAIN PEOPLE ON HOW TO BECOME A Golden Aged PEOPLE, not to teach the scientific details about how he resets each cases of entropy. When you occupy an advance-booked hotel room, you find the room contains things and provisions more than you imagined could be there. You would simply enjoy those provisions without going into details of how those provisions were being arranged there. So is the case with me. I am now leading a Golden Aged life, and God says such people will inherit Golden Age.

Yet if we act like Einstein, we can get some clue as to how he will renew the provisions for life’s enjoyment. In 1915, Albert Einstein realized that Newton's laws of motion and gravity did not apply to objects in high gravity or at high speeds, like the speed of light. In his General Theory of Relativity, Einstein envisioned gravity as a distortion of space caused by mass, and predicted existence of Gravitational Waves which are produced when two objects orbiting one another end up producing ripples in the actual fabric of space and time. Now see what happened after 100 years.

The 2017 physics Nobel prize was awarded for the detection of Gravitational Waves. This discovery is praised as so significant that it would usher in “a new era of astronomy” because it proved what Albert Einstein predicted in his 1915 Theory of General Relativity. It was scientists working in LIGO (Laser Interferometer Gravitational-Wave Observatory) who have detected Gravitational Waves from the violent merging of two Black Holes roughly a billion light-years away.

The amazing fact about this is that what scientists in LIGO have detected now with physical equipments HAD ALREADY BEEN SEEN BY EINSTEIN'S Third Eye, or eye of his intuitive wisdom or meditative eye. Similarly, each person should use his meditative eye to see how God renews this old decadent system of things.
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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post10 May 2019

vlakshmi wrote:In other words, both Judaism and Islam are inseparably connected—both originated from two sons of Abraham.

It seems that you don't read things or think about them before replying.

Then you equivocate but you don’t know that's what you're doing. Look it up, equivocation.

(It is a very common thing to do in such debates when maintaining a position is more important than finding the truth of a matter. The BKs do it habitually).

So, by your logic, there should only be one branch shown. So why is there two branches, one for ”Muslim Dynasty by Mohamed” but the other one is for ”Islam" by Abraham?

As for Ishmael and Isaac - you talk as if the Jewish line is irrelevant. Yet for Christians, they identify themselves as an extension of the Jewish faith with no direct connection to Islam.

Why does Christianity get its own branch then, seen as separate from Judaism, when Jesus was a good Jewish boy, a descendant of David etc, who tried to reform Judaism and was not concerned with creating a new one? Neither Jesus, nor the Jewish descendants of Abraham, called their faith Islam.

You do know why there’s been conflict in the Middle East since 1948, right?

BTW, Christianity was, in fact, started by St Paul of Tarsus who took it out of the Jewish tradition, so that branch should say Christianity by Paul of Tarsus. Many Christian historians and theologians would agree.

Why do all the miniscule sects and cults get a grouping onto branches yet major movements like Confucianism and Taoism or Shinto don’t even get a twig?

Ignorance to put it bluntly, although it may be kinder to say it reveals a understanding of the world’s religions by a person of limited education with probably more enthusiasm and intelligence than actual knowledge. (A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. Add some charisma to that and others get drawn in as well - as I a young idealistic trusting fool, was).

As we said in earlier post - it only takes one undeniable fact to the contrary to make any theory or view false.

The BK Gyan is full of words, but there are too many facts to the contrary, too many gaps in its logic, too much hard evidence contradicting it. Words aren't enough.
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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post10 May 2019

@vlakshmi

So, according to you, Einstein was BK. And you believe in gravitation waves. Why are you so selective when you trying to prove your point? How gravitational waves prove existence of your God?

Our mind and body is made of the same atoms which are empty. Science even says we do not even exist, do you believe in that?

There are billions of galaxies and universes. Do you think humans are centre of the universe? And beginning of the time when there was no sanskars how we acted ? How was this whole drama started? And what will happen to trees, bacteria, virus and other animals? Are they not of God’s interest ? And whatever you are writing it does not even matter.

Most of the religious people are biggest hypocrites; they talk one thing, and do something else. I have seen my mother and Father, they talk as if they are superior beings but when it comes to dealing with life they are worst than normal human beings. They talk about life is a Maya etc ... etc but when comes to cheating and making profit, all their philosophies go into drain.

When somebody touches their feet (Hindu tradition), they feel so proud that as if it is proved that they are superior and equivalent to God. They always seek validation.
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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post10 May 2019

Hi Pink Panther,
Pink Panther wrote:“Why do all the miniscule sects and cults get a grouping onto branches yet major movements like Confucianism and Taoism or Shinto don’t even get a twig?”

Answer is there in your question itself. The subject of religion is an ocean of confusion, as there are many religions and sects within each warring with each other. According to the Center for the Study of Global Christianity (CSGC) at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary, there are approximately 41,000 Christian denominations and organizations in the world today. And this will grow into 55,000 by the year 2025 So is the case with Hinduism (in which even Charvakas/atheism is a part of Hinduism), Islam, Judaism ... If the immediate disciples properly understood their leader, there would have been no need for sects and divisions which are caused by ego against which all religious leaders preached. That means there cannot be order and logic among religions and their sects, hence their size, order of development ... etc are not important in the total picturization.

Hence the Kalpa tree would picture only a GENERAL and BRIEFEST view of the various religious developments because the purpose [is not to give a picture in which every religion and sect receive exact and proportionate representation] is to show the intensity of confusion which arose as a result of forgetting the Heavenly Father, and how it will start all over again from a seed planted by the Supreme Seed.

That means one need to approach the Kalpa tree in the spirit of the famous saying: “cannot see the forest for the trees.”

“It means that if you look at things one at a time, you might not realize that a branch of separate "trees" go together to make a "forest." When you are too close to a situation you need to step back and get a little perspective. When you do you will notice there was a whole forest you couldn't see before because you were too close, and focusing on the trees. Simply that you have focused on the many details and have failed to see the overall view, impression or key point.”
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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post10 May 2019

Muhammad started receiving vision around 610 years after Christ, Islam was therefore founded about 1000 years after the BK god spirit or "Father of Humanity" said it was ... and Judaism was entirely missed out or, logically speaking, renamed Islamites ... and you sweep it aside saying that such a "small detail" is not important and one should not look at and consider such errors!?!

Is that really such a small detail?

Amazing ... it's impossible to have a serious discussion with such an insincere mental state.

Now ... seriously ... in your mind, vlakshmi, you *must* know how big an error that is to have made in 1966, a mere 3 years before Lekhraj Kirpalani's "perfection" and 10 years before the predicted Destruction in 1976 (and 18 years after the founding of Israel). There may have not been a synagogue on Mount Abu but Lekhraj Kirpalani had relationship with a friendly Christian priest there (however, there was one in Karachi close to the Amil Colony, and 6,000 Jews and 5 synagogues in Calcutta).

Stop being a 'BK bot' for one minute and tell me what would have happen had "God" spoken to the world and told the Jews they were, in fact, Islamites according to him (one year before the Six-Day War between Israel and the Arab states)?

Tell me what a impression Jews ... one of the oldest monotheistic religions ... and any half-educated Christian would have had of BKism and its god spirit at this time, before this error or failure was covered up and re-written?

I can tell you what you are doing.

You are not dealing in what is, but what should be ... what way of thinking is required in order to sustain faith in BKism. You are dealing in what kind of mental plugs are required to be hammered in in order to keep the sinking boat of faith in BKism afloat, and creating mental smoke screens (confusions) to hide the light truth from entering.

You know inside your heart these things are not true, do not work, would not convince any half-educated person ... so why do you persist in them?

Leaks are springing up everywhere and the water of truth and light is gushing into your BK closed mind.
Rita wrote:I have seen my mother and Father ... When somebody touches their feet (Hindu tradition), they feel so proud that as if it is proved that they are superior and equivalent to God. They always seek validation.

Hold on ... people touch their feet on the grounds of their involvement with BKism, and they allow it?

Really? BKism really has degraded to such a point it is just feeding people's ego and turning back into Hinduism.
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