What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to followers?

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vlakshmi

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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post27 Apr 2019

You don’t have to guess about my identity. I had already written (on April 25, 2019) to Pink Panther as part of my comments that I am a Clinical Psychiatrist, and got attracted to BK-system through my own experience through Past Regression. I am fully engaged with my secular profession during day, but I practice amrutvela meditation and attend Murli class thereafter. I am BK for more than 10 years. In the very first year of my practice of Rajayoga meditation, I began to enjoy the real connection with Baba. Nothing stops me from Rajayoga because the longer I remain connected to Him I enjoy it more and more because it gives me bliss for which there cannot be any substitute.

I came here in this Forum by chance - when I saw “Why I Cannot Believe in the Brahma Kumaris' 5,000 Year Cycle.” Then I thought of responding to it because I am as convinced of 5000 year cycle as I am convinced of Gravitational Force.
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Rita

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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post27 Apr 2019

Are you from India? Because in India this organisation is brainwashing and taking money from innocent old people and separating human beings on the basis on colour, religion and gender. I did not find this very appealing.

They are confused with their own teachings. They say all human beings are same, why then the separation of Brahmins and Sudras in your belief system? "Our God is the real God, and you body conscious people are worshiping fake Gods", why this separation?

I am from a Hindu family the same teachings are in our culture. What is the difference?

The only difference is who is taking the money, and running a fraudulent organisation. My family donated 4 lakhs last year without even consulting me.

And their teachings are so absurd that they teach not to lie, and yet they and their followers are the biggest liars.
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ex-l

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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post27 Apr 2019

vlakshmi wrote:I am a Clinical Psychiatrist ... [and] I am as convinced of 5000 year cycle as I am convinced of Gravitational Force.

Speaking as a Clinical Psychiatrist, do you have no concerns about BKism ... and its victims ... whatsoever?

Do you even recognise that it has made victims suffer?

Have you considered having psychotherapy or psychoanalysis sessions yourself?

To me, you come across as deeply compartmentalised individual, each compartment dislocated from others, the BK compartment being deeply irrational, whereas the medical side must at least be based on scientific procedure and rationalism.

The effects of gravity are rather easy to demonstrate ... you have told us - yet refused to demonstrate - that simple arithmetics convinced you about the 5,000 years and its 84 births. Instead, you presented to us such errors that an elementary student would not have dreamt of making.

Please explain the mechanism with which the entire universe resets itself, with atomic accuracy, precisely every 43,830,000 hours, including how photons (eg light coming from distance stars) manage to reverse themselves in space.

You claimed to understand entropy. Fine. Explain how it relates resets the BKs' 5,000 Year Cycle theory to us. (I won't expect the maths, but at least start with the theory).

Going back to your first posts, you said,
vlakshmi wrote:Worsening situations, such as increasing population and pollution, means everything had a perfect start. In the past many people knew that history as cyclic, not linear.

Now, as an academic, you will know that the first is a non-sequitor and the second is equally fallacious. "In the past", people thought the world was carried on the back of a giant turtle, or popped out of Vishnu's bellybutton.

Just because an idea is old, does not make it true.
“You can try BKs, they are the re-establishment of original Hinduism.

Only according to the BKs themselves, most academics believe in different, more ancient roots. That is circular logic ... and actually an incorrect statement according to BKism (the BKs believe Hinduism is an impure relfection and memorial of their original religion).
Rita wrote:The only difference is who is taking the money

You've nailed it in one, Rita.

When Lekhraj Kirpalani ran out of money for his vanity project he had to work out a way to financially support the women who had sacrificed their lives to him.

What is interesting is that this re-invention happened around the same time as they invented their new God, Shiva.

The introduction or invention of Shiva only happened around 1956 within BKism, prior to that Lekhraj Kirpalani was their God, he as known as "Divine Father" "Prajapati God Brahma". They turned their private cult into a money reaping business.

This time was known as "The Beggary Period" within BKism as they were so poor and, at times, surviving on "two rotis and some dahl" each day, they used to say.

Lekhraj Kirpalani would obviously know what sort of money flows into religion in India, as he himself used to throw small fortunes at gurus out of blind faith and in order to earn good luck. Even poverty wasn't enough to make them go out and get a real job though.

They turned to religion instead.
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vlakshmi

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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post28 Apr 2019

From my school days, I keep my life simple. In school, I did not bother about what could disturb me, but concentrated on my studies, and often scored the top rank. Wherever I am, I consistently practice this policy. I came to BK-system to know myself, God, history and geography, and I am more than satisfied with that. If I try to see the negative, naturally I cannot taste God, who is the fullness of all positives, which I consider to be the greatest loss.
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Rita

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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post28 Apr 2019

That is fine, you were good in studies. It does not mean that you have taken every right decision in life and you are authoritative to convince what is right and wrong.

From your comment, it is clear that you think you are rank holder so you can’t be wrong. Often I have heard my mother quote like that (I always used to search god during childhood and I used to visit every temple and saints, but did not find God). I think, they seems convincing for certain mindset of people.

God is everywhere, except in these fraudulent religious groups.
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Pink Panther

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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post28 Apr 2019

Thanks for reminding me, vlakshmi. I was going to follow that up.

Clinical psychiatrist, huh? So you did medicine first, then specialised in psychiatry?

How much of the psychiatry you studied is actual psychology?

What would you say to a person who would suggest that medical knowledge and treatment have deteriorated continually over the last 5000 years?

Besides answering that question, in the various posts and replies since you introduced yourself, a number of specific questions have been put to you and you haven't answered most of them except indirectly and equivocally.

Please if you don't mind, out of respect so that correspondence is not a waste of time, would you mind re-reading them and answering them as directly as possible, please?
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ex-l

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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post28 Apr 2019

I would like to support Pink Panther in his simple request.

You say "know the self" ... please, for a moment, stop and look at yourself as if you were a patient presenting themself to you. Would you pick up on their denial, equivocation or refusal to answer simple questions directly? Their discomfort at being held to their own claims or statements?
vlakshmi wrote:I try to see the negative, naturally I cannot taste God, who is the fullness of all positives

Is God not truth, and truth not God then?

Why would focusing on truth and truths separate you from God?

For me, that always brings one closer to godliness; and the Godly would not only never refuse to do so, but be easily and naturally attracted to that which is true.

Whereas I can admit that BKism is 'intoxicating', their adversity towards even simply truths - and their commitment to whitewashing and promoting falsehoods and revisions - makes me consider that the source of that intoxication is not of the highest Godly level.

It may frighten you now but I suspect that you too will come to this conclusion one day.
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vlakshmi

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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post29 Apr 2019

ex-l,

Yes, it is “intoxicating” to me towards the beneficial results of knowing the truth and living accordingly — for example:
    1) When they told me a holy life is possible even in this Last Days if you CHANGE YOUR THINKING—I put this to test, and I found that, YES, it is true. To my surprise, I found that holy life is as easy and natural as breathing. In sensual life, you will have to be constantly worried about its bitter consequences whereas in virtuous life there is nothing to fear — and you are liked by everyone. My non-BK family members do not like BK teaching, yet they like my BK character, and they even publicize this to others from whom I came to know this.

    2) When they told me Linking with God and the resultant bliss is possible -- I put this to test, and I found that YES, it is true

    3) I also do some pondering over BK teaching (rather than just mugging up what they teach). For example, When I see a flower, my reasoning goes like this: flower is not necessary for human existence, yet it quenches aesthetic sense of human beings — hence it speaks of God’s personality of providing in abundance. Everything was in abundance in the beginning, hence the earth was called prithvi by its early inhabitants [in India], and prithvi literally means “daughter of abundance”. Similarly, when I see many cycles on earth, I reason then it is all the more true that history is also a cycle.

    4) Knowing how to manage my restless mind is the greatest art and the ultimate knowledge, and this knowledge I owe to BK teaching.
After tasting the nectar, I have no reason to prefer water of Maya.

People act/react differently at the same subject. For example pregnancy — and reactions of people. When some people come to know that they are now pregnant, they express their delight by spreading the news and giving sweets to as many as people possible, whereas other people become so sad that they try to hide the news about this pregnancy from others and go for a secret abortion (annually, over 50 million according to WHO — it could be even more with all the unreported cases).

Hence no wonder that BKism could be liked by some and disliked by others. I am concerned only about practicing the BK teaching and giving my support to it. It is a well-known teaching among the BKs that one can support it by than (body) man (mind), dhan (wealth/talent) — and if you cannot spare portion of your money, don’t feel guilty about this but you do your service with body and mind. I have never experienced any compulsion from BKs in this regard. Even if someone feels compelled, he can still choose not to give anything. I can see many type of people within BK system:
    1) there are people who support this system 100%
    2) there are people who support just 1% or no support at all, and
    3) there those in between in all varying degrees.
If "brainwashing" exists as you claim, why do such a variety of people exist among BKs?
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Pink Panther

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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post29 Apr 2019

You should go into politics. Your ability to answer a different question to what is asked, to make false equivalencies, and false syllogisms is of the highest order; well, maybe not the highest, yours are easy to see through! If not a political party, maybe a religious cult would benefit from such talent. You could rise high up in such an organisation with such a talent.
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Rita

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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post29 Apr 2019

In my opinion, they are not trained to answer your questions. That is out of syllabus.
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vlakshmi

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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post29 Apr 2019

Pink Panther & Rita,
    1) Your site said “you don’t’ agree with 5000 year cycle of BK teaching — and I showed “Why I could believe it by providing a population chart".

    2) You said BKs are making money and brainwashing people, but I showed it is not true. Every time when I make my yearly visit to BK Head Office, they take only Rs. 3000 from me for food and accommodation for 10 days. This is equal to USD 42. How can this be a money-making business? I surely receive more than I give?!
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ex-l

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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post29 Apr 2019

vlakshmi wrote:I showed “Why I could believe it by providing a population chart".

How many times must we go over this?

Vlakshmi, from memory, you provided two "population charts", neither of which addressed the issue or bore any relationship to either reality, or BKism and its demographic claims. They were not population charts, just an abstract sequence of numbers.
    Would you care to try again and create a population chart according to the BK philosophy this time?
Your unwillingness to do so, despite being asked polite, is evidence to us of what the BK mind training is like, and what it does to people.
    Of 'How Brahma Kumaris communicate to outsiders' (see title above).
Neither did you address the anomalies, eg the BKWSU's ever changing demographic predictions, eg 5 ... then changed to 5.5 billion. The world population is now nearly 8 billion, and so the BKs have shut their god up about it, and edited out his past mistakes.
    Is it ethical to hide his errors?
FYI, as you were not a BK when this arose, around the time the world population increased beyond the 5 billion figure he predicted, the excuse they used was that any human being born after than date were basically not a human at all, as your Baba said, they were "like flies or insects" who came and died so quickly, therefore they were not accounted for by the BK Baba as "humans". That was when Destruction was moved from 1976 (which failed), to 1986 (which also failed).
    Is it ethical to hide such an error from newcomers?
The BKs don't "take" only Rs. 3000, you only 'give' 3,000 rupees for the retreat ... to which we add weekly/monthly contributions, special events ... and 100% your property/estate when you die (as you have no children), and the "1/3 of your parents' estate to the local centre and 1/3 of your parents' estate to Madhuban when they die" (official BK policy).

Seriously, you are an academic and a professional and you use an argument like, "The BKs cannot be making lots of money, because I don't give them very much when I go on retreat?". Is that logical, or manipulative of the truth?

OK, please provide for us a summary of the BKWSU's wealth and annual income. You won't because, again, you don't want to see reality.

And my nickname is Ex- L, not ex-l.
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Rita

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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post29 Apr 2019

@vlakshmi

It would be fine if they claim that they are running a resort or a meditation centre. Claiming that, "we have God on our side, we know everything" kind of attitude makes it a cult. Claiming that, "we know everything because God is giving us The Knowledge" are false claims, and makes us suspicious.

I am telling you my mother has paid 4 lakhs in spite of my warning. You say that they don’t take money, so from where are they getting money for new buildings and centres? Or are they getting money from politicians because you are the vote bank for the politicians?

Corruption is at every level in India. You never know what you are part of until you open your eyes and see.
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ex-l

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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post29 Apr 2019

Rita wrote:I am telling you my mother has paid 4 lakhs in spite of my warning.

4 lakhs ruppes is $1,154,000 USD.

That is how one of the cons works ... they play a 'long confident tricks', aka 'long con' or 'long game' and they followers like vlakshmi to be part of it, wuthout them knowing.

"Everything is free", or "the BKs never asked for money from me", or I got this great bargain - like vlakshmi says - of a holiday for 3,000 rupees is all designed to build trust and respect, like con artists do.

They are also not true. We were BKs, we know how the BKWSU works. We have the evidence of countless reports of vulnerable women, and families, being conned out of fortunes, village women being forced to hand over jewellery. girls being made to hand over dowries (to stop the poor dumping their children on them) etc.

I, personally, have sat in a room with Dadi Janki laughing as she said,
"First we tell them everything is free, then we take everything of theirs".

It is their business model. Low donors are "loss leaders" who provide free labour instead and make up the numbers to convince high donors to drop a lot of money on them. They lose a little money on the low donors (but gain their free labour), but then make their profit off the big donors ... hence all their attention on "serving" VIPs and having special treatments and centres for the wealthy middle classes.
Short and long cons

A short con or small con is a fast swindle which takes just minutes. It typically aims to rob the victim of everything in his wallet.

A long con or big con (also, a long game) is a scam that unfolds over several days or weeks and involves a team of swindlers, as well as props, sets, extras, costumes, and scripted lines. It aims to rob the victim of huge sums of money or valuable things, often by getting him or her to empty out banking accounts and borrow from family members.

vlakshmi needs to get the drugs out of their system and open their eyes to what is going on, and not be part of it.

Intoxicate means, to cause someone to lose control of their faculties or behaviour ... to poison. It is a dream in which the dreamer is told they are awake and everyone else is asleep ... and while BKs dream, they are robbed.
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Pink Panther

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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post30 Apr 2019

Dear vlakshmi,

I hope you are not feeling you are being ganged up on, you'd understand this is a forum for ex-BKs and family and friends of BKs to share their experiences, to find support and get some straight answers.

May I suggest that if you do not want to answer directly questions put to you, by quoting the question and answering it directly, you may better use your time and ours by doing the following:

Rather than solipsistically thinking your own experience is a universal reality, you may find it informative and educational to spend some time browsing this site to read what hundreds of people have said about their own BK experiences or those of family members and friends who were BKs. There are quite a number that would be of interest to a clinical psychiatrist or any person that still has some inquisitiveness and curiosity.

Wishing you broader horizons,

PP
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