What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to followers?

for discussing revisions in the history of the Brahma Kumaris and updating information about the organisation
  • Message
  • Author
Offline
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BK

  • Posts: 10209
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post10 May 2019

“Cannot see the forest for the trees” is not a BKism.

The biggest reason for the divergence of religions is the same as BKism ... control of money, property, terrtory ... more than just ideological differences. I am not sure ideological differences are all just "ego". Then there are cultural applications. However, they are all business empires right the way down to "cornershop churches". There's money for nothing in religion.

Albert Einstein based his ideas on prolonged study of science and advanced mathematics, not a "third eye" vision ... so what is the point to all that smokescreen? It does not answer the question at all.

Let's make it simple ...

How do you get the flag the Americans stuck in the moon back down to earth, and the metals buried deep within the Earth, in order to be in the same place so it can be repeated 5,000 years later?
vlakshmi wrote:11 countries (such as Switzerland ...) have never taken part in any wars in all their history, and other nations do not learn from this good example. .

Reality check ... List of wars involving Switzerland. Back in the Middle Ages, the Swiss were very good at winning wars, so good that they turned it into a thriving business; Swiss mercenaries.

Compulsory military service applies to all male Swiss citizens, budget about US$5 billion. Circa WWII,
according to TIME. “Man for man, Switzerland probably has the second best army in Europe today,” it concluded.
Offline

vlakshmi

BK

  • Posts: 83
  • Joined: 17 Apr 2019

Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post10 May 2019

Hi ex-l,

Of course there were wars fought—but by the precursors of Switzerland. That means you listed wars fought before year 1848.

When I mentioned Switzerland, it is the present form since the adoption of the Swiss Federal Constitution in 1848 (not the precursors of Switzerland which established a protective alliance at the end of the 13th century (1291), forming a loose confederation of states which persisted for centuries).

Here too, you missed the point—I was highlighting an important subject: 'GOOD EXAMPLES ARE AVAILABLE, YET THEY HAVE NO INFLUENCE ON OTHER NATIONS.'
Offline
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BK

  • Posts: 10209
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post10 May 2019

So, was it a good "example" or a bad "example" the British fought a war against Nazi Germany, or the Sikhs against the Mughals?

To be honest, I don't want an answer. My point is to underline what incredibly superficial and false examples BKs use to fool people within BKism, and that real life is a little more complex.
vlakshmi wrote:When I mentioned Switzerland, it is the present form since the adoption of the Swiss Federal Constitution in 1848

So when you mentioned Switzerland it is only the present form ... but when you mention "peaceful" India, it refers to the entire history before its creation in 1947 (and ignores all the wars between all the various empires and kingdoms)?

Would you care to do some simple arithmetic and add up how many Indians have been killed by other Indians in those wars? "India" being a sub-continent of kingdoms, like "Europe".

One of the ways Switzerland avoids invasion is by basically every adult male knowing how to fire a gun and 1 in 4 people owning one ... and every border point being designed to blow up on command. Not very Om Shanti.

The BK Baba has on occasions given advice to military personal and that is (approx), "everything is OK if you just remember me". Nirwair used to tell stories about his national service.

--

What I am doing, vlakshmi, is time after time deconstructing your argument point to show how many or how much of them is based on absolute fallacies or imagined falsehoods ... fallacies or falsehoods but stated with the kinf of absolute self-confidence (conceit, I would call it) both here and, I suspect, in real life ... to non-BKs and young BKs.

I think you should stop and really review not just your beliefs but also your methodology.

I think that is irresponsible and you should admit your errors ... especially if you consider yourself to be a "messenger of your god" (not my, the God, or any non-BKs' god).
Offline
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BK

  • Posts: 10209
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post10 May 2019

All this talk about forests and trees ... let's not beat around the bush.

The real reason that China and all the other philosophical schools aren't mentioned, and the mistakes were made, was because Lekhraj Kirpalani and "the Briginal Jewel BKs" were as 'stupid and uneducated' as they were 'conceited and deluded' even just 3 years before Lekhraj Kirpalani's "perfection".

You can re-write it however you can try ... but, invoking Occams Razor ... those are the simple truths.

And their god spirit cannot under any possibility be "God", to have allowed such nonsense to have arisen.

--

I've just been reading about the Vedic [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mīmāṃsā#History]Mīmāṃsā school[/url], of which I admit I knew nothing until today, and starting to imagine what a huge slap in the face Lekhraj Kirpalani's arrogance to the sincere and educated members of the Hindu community. From 2,000 years before BKism ...
The Mīmānsā school asserted that one must not only examine injunctive propositions in any scripture, but also examine the alternate related or reverse propositions for better understanding. They suggested that to reach correct and valid knowledge it is not only sufficient to demand proof of a proposition, it is important to give proof of a proposition's negative as well as declare and prove one's own preferred propositions. Further, they asserted that whenever perception is not the means of direct proof and knowledge, one cannot prove such non-empirical propositions to be "true or not true", rather one can only prove a non-empirical proposition is "false, not false, or uncertain".

Mīmānsākas welcome not only the demand for proof of an injunctive proposition such as "[this] leads one to heaven", but suggest that one must examine and prove alternate propositions such as "[this] does not lead one to heaven", "something else leads one to heaven", "there is heaven", "there is no heaven" and so on.

Mīmānsā literature states that if satisfactory, verifiable proof for all of such propositions cannot be found by its proponents and its opponents, then the proposition needs to be accepted as a part of a "belief system"

BKism is just a belief system, and a very poor one. Albeit it makes some people feel spaced out.
Offline
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BK

  • Posts: 10209
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post10 May 2019

vlakshmi wrote:'GOOD EXAMPLES ARE AVAILABLE, YET THEY HAVE NO INFLUENCE ON OTHER NATIONS.'

Why don't good examples have any influence on BKs?

So, allow me to ask again ...
    How do you get the flag the Americans stuck in the moon back down to earth, and the metals buried deep within the Earth, in order to be in the same place so it can be repeated 5,000 years later?*

* (There is no oxygen, therefore items do not oxidise ... If you are going to say it just magically falls back to earth, you could also explain how the Voyager probes are returned, or the ones that are orbitting the Sun "until the Solar System ends" are pulled back).
Offline

vlakshmi

BK

  • Posts: 83
  • Joined: 17 Apr 2019

Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post11 May 2019

Hi ex-l,

In fact, I too was thinking about Switzerland like you in the beginning. Change occurred during my college days. Students were asked to give a speech of 5 minute duration about each one’s own country. And my friend from Switzerland mentioned this non-warring aspect of her own country — Switzerland — as the most important highlight, and she felt proud of it.

If you don’t like this country, you may ignore it and even reduce the total number of 11 non-warring countries into at least one. Even this one country makes a startling and revolutionary point that:

"IF ONE COUNTRY CAN REMAIN WITHOUT ENGAGING IN ANY WAR, IT SHOWS ALL COUNTRY CAN DO SO", like the Air Hostess I mentioned yesterday. If she can behave softly, sweetly and lovely with passengers, she can also do so with her own family members back home -- but she won't. This is typical of many human beings. That is why the DRAMA has two halves -- first half for one type of people and second half for another type of people.

Now I can see a difference BETWEEN YOU AND ME:

I will use a simple illustration to make my point.
    When ‘apple’ is mentioned/brought in,
    you slip into a discussion of how it should be written--with capital letter 'A' or small case ‘a’ ... and so on, whereas
    I straight away start enjoying eating the apple — with no botheration about such things as whether first letter is capital or small case ... etc.
Offline
User avatar

Pink Panther

  • Posts: 1711
  • Joined: 14 Feb 2013

Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post11 May 2019

vlakshmi,

You just did it again. Diverted away from direct questions and criticised some secondary aspect.

Lets’ stay clear.
    You believe BK Gyan is from God, yes?
    God says everything repeats exactly every 5000 years, yes?
    By definition, by BK Murlis, God is Omniscient and speaks total truth , yes?
So, ex-l asked, if this Godly revelation is true, feasible then:
    Q1. How does US flag on the moon or the voyager probes get back to the same start point to be repeated?
    Q2. How do the materials in them, steel back to iron ore, plastics back to vegetation to become hydrocarbons, cloth in the flag back to the soil to grow again, how do they return to their point of origin?
    Q3. How do the photons travelling through space from distant stars find themselves back inside their original stars and wait there until they are released next cycle

I will add this - in the very first Avyakt Murli I heard live in Madhuban, ‘BapDada’ said the drama repeats identically down to the last atom. A fly landed on Gulzar’s face which a Sister shooed away, then ‘BapDada' said that even that same fly was repeating identically. We all went ”wow” .

Words are cheap. Every religion is full of words making big claims.

The followers all go ”Wow. Amazing, profound, what human could have come up with that? ” ( Even I used that rationale as an young BK - I was a BK until i was well past ”young” , too many years )

Christopher Hitchens famously said ”extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. That which can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence”.

Please answer ex-l’s questions directly.

If you don't know, be honest and say ”I don't know” .

It’s not that hard.
Offline

vlakshmi

BK

  • Posts: 83
  • Joined: 17 Apr 2019

Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post11 May 2019

Hi Pink Panther,

I already said, “I straight away enjoy the apple”, and you know what I meant.

I am not thinking about a flag or fly. I know things (macro and micro) repeat.

1) Death happens to everyone, yet most people live as though they won’t die

2) Body alerts through STOP-sign mechanism called disease, meaning: change your life-style, or else you will go into more trouble. Yet number of people falling sick only increases with more and more diseases being invited.

3) Histories of nations are the proof that there is consequence for every action, so is the case with individuals. Thus there is an ocean of proof for the fact that “you reap what you sow’ — yet most people repeat the attitude - I can do this and yet evade the consequence.

4) Gandhi, the main architect of India's freedom struggle, came into politics with no self-interests -- what a superb example. He did not attend even the swearing-in ceremony of the First Government post Independence India. Yet politicians REPEAT the same attitude of coming into politics with self-interest.

When you see large scale repetition, why bother about a poor fly?

I have heard some Westerners mocking Indians saying “you worship things such as river”.

This is the typical example of not seeing the essence. The ancient Indians worshipped river means they took care of nature, which is best understood against the present day contrasting situation of exploiting the nature.
Offline
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BK

  • Posts: 10209
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post11 May 2019

vlakshmi wrote:I already said, “I straight away enjoy the apple”, and you know what I meant.

I don't. I doubt Pink does.

But I guess it means ... you like getting high on sugar effect and don't like to think about things that challenge or contradict your beliefs, or that might question the effects of the "sugar" on your mind.

Gandhi did not miss the swearing-in ceremony "because he no self-interest" ... you create myths, in order to support and defend other myths (Gandhi was not in favor of the two-nation theory and the division of India and made a political point). Consequence and karma are two different things ( eg why did peaceful Aboriginal Australians get wiped out by violent Whites, they never invaded any other country?).

And why did Gandhi get assassinated if he was so peaceful and divine? (No answer necessary, please).

If you won't answer our questions, if you won't think, if you won't face reality and explore it, if you won't look at yourself .. why are you here?

--

I was going to respond seriously and accurately regarding your "11 countries" theory, we could discuss Gandhi and the Independence movement ... but what is the point?

You just want sugar to get you high. That's it.
Offline
User avatar

Pink Panther

  • Posts: 1711
  • Joined: 14 Feb 2013

Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post12 May 2019

vlakshmi,

I get your poetic idea of the apple. But it is, once again, beside the point.

There were three specific, numbered, direct questions. Direct evasion this time, no pretence to an answer at all. Not sure if that is an improvement. Instead of answering, we get -
vlakshmi wrote:When you see large scale repetition, why bother about a poor fly?

I will respond directly to your question.

Hey, it was not me who raised the ”poor fly". It was your self-anointed BK God who specifically made a big deal about the fly and said that each and every atom does exactly the same each Kalpa (being Ocean of Knowledge, understanding quantum physics is not a problem) and that was said as part of the formal Murli that would go out to all centres and students.

This is the BK dogma, it is not ‘correcting’, revising, reinterpreting or explaining away ”out-dated" Sakar Murli Gyan as some Avyakt Murli points did, it was reinforcing the point made many times before. This is the divine authoritative source of all BK teachings and practices you are dismissing wigth "why bother?".

It could have been stated that, like each year and each month is different but on the "large scale” they create a cyclic ”pattern", so too the world history is cyclic with some minor variations. No. It was not stated that way.

God Shiva/BapDada says it is identically repeating down to the last atom exactly every 5000 years. That no one gets more than 84 births precisely ... etc.

No approximations. Never does God use the word ”approximately” or any other synonym for such things.

Why does it matter in the big picture, you ask? Why bother?

Do you think that to claim you are God and to ask people to follow what you teach is a small thing? That one should never check such a claim, especially when hundreds of others who claim the same title or ownership of such things, and their followers are equally conviced they are right and others are not?

You could not bring yourself to say, ”I don't know” to those questions, or even think to say ”maybe others know the answer to those questions but I don’t”. You seems to lack honesty or humility.

Hey, look, I am OK if you want to say, ”I have chosen this Shiva Baba of the BKs as my god and it makes me feel good, so I don't care if everything said is factually true or not.” - then say that. I know a BK who has been honest enough to say exactly that.

Can you be that honest?
Offline

vlakshmi

BK

  • Posts: 83
  • Joined: 17 Apr 2019

Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post13 May 2019

Hi Pink Panther,

Before getting deep into BK-ism, a fertile ground had already been laid in my intellect through various phases:
    1) When I attended the International Association for Regression Research and Therapies (IARRT) Conference in 1996, in which Key Note Address was given by Dr. Michael Newton, my family belief in reincarnation got strengthened further.

    2) Then I had my own Past Regression done through Dr. Michael Newton. It gave me insight into many of my past lives. It gave me information not only about atma but also about the changing environment it passed through.

    3) Then after three years, I came in contact with BKs. When I compared the above information with BK teaching of world history revolving in cycles of 5 phases (Brahmins, Devi-devata, Kshatriya, Vaisyas, Shudras) in declining quality, it was as though I was seeing a picture of an apple after having really eaten countless apples through centuries. [It means I HAVE NO QUESTION ABOUT DETAILS OF APPLE PICTURE.]

    4) On the 7th day (final day) of my course, BK teacher briefed the teaching this way: Thus we are like children descending from our house to play in the ground outside, each one AT VARIOUS TIMINGS, in numberwise order, and returning home all together AT THE SAME TIME. Then again we, the children, come out to play, and return. And identical Drama repeats endlessly. Each time when drama begins, we know that we are now (abi) starting new (naya). Hence the word abinaya is used by Indians for acting in dramas and films. [means: again I HAVE NO QUESTION ABOUT THE DETAILS OF PLAY, BECAUSE IT IS A PLAY and it is also my own solid experience that things--MACRO and MICRO--repeat]
If the above explanation is really understood, then there is only Awe!!!, Awe!!! and Awe!!! ... !!! [no WHY ??? ...], because players already know why of everything that happens.

Thus
    I have no questions because of my special background.
    You have many questions because of your special background.
Those who have already lived through all five stages of each cycle are like a person who has lived and worked through five countries spending enough time in each country, and later saw the maps of those five countries. Such ones will have no doubt or no questions about the details of maps.

Now look at one's own body. I am a combination (metaphysical) atma (which is OLD) and physical body (which is NEW). This knowledge helps me to understand others behavior better. Interestingly, this is what history too is—it is composed of two halves — NEW half and OLD half. Things once NEW becoming OLD is our experience — whether it happens identically same or not is a matter that can be revealed by God whose vision far better than ours. When He says history repeats identically, then it means what it says: History IDENTICALLY repeats itself.

How many people would accept this truth is a different matter over which God has no control. By accepting this truth, one creates his destiny. And by rejecting this truth too, those create their destiny.
Offline
User avatar

Pink Panther

  • Posts: 1711
  • Joined: 14 Feb 2013

Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post13 May 2019

Vlakshmi,

This post is seriously breaking the thread of the conversation. You are neither answering the direct questions nor even connecting to anything said by previous posts in this thread.

You were requested that if you want to introduce yourself and tell your story, to start a new topic elsewhere rather than hijack this topic - which you have done while not actually directly engaging in an actual conversation. You are always going off on tangents and not relating back to point, and you are doing it again here.

You can copy and paste your last post (13th May 2019) into a new topic and delete it from here if you don't mind.
Offline

Rita

  • Posts: 77
  • Joined: 25 Sep 2018

Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post13 May 2019

Pink Panther,

You are expecting too much from a brainwashed individual.
Offline

vlakshmi

BK

  • Posts: 83
  • Joined: 17 Apr 2019

Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post13 May 2019

Hi Pink Panther,

Your several questions put together was “Does God say ‘history repeats identically, and do I agree with it’?”

I have answered both questions DIRECTLY and UNAMBIGUOUSLY. To help you understand why I agree with it, I brought my background because anything is better understood against its background. If I say just "yes" or "no" answer without enough explanation and background information, you would say 'I am brainwashed.'

An open-minded student has no problem with understanding BKism. He knows how to look for essence behind the details. For example,
    1) Ears of those who do not understand what God says is locked by “GODREJ LOCKS” [here what is important is not which company is making the Lock because no company can make Locks for the ear of the mind]

    2) History identically repeats every 5000 years.

    3) If a BK commits a vice, he/she will forfeit his/her status; will have to receive 100 times punishment.

    4) In the kingdom of Ravan people become like salt water whereas in the kingdom of Rama everyone lives together like milk and sugar. [How is one "become like salt water" no explanation is given - but student has to use his dynamism]
Offline

Rita

  • Posts: 77
  • Joined: 25 Sep 2018

Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post13 May 2019

Repeating same baseless words like your Murli, do not make any difference. If you are so convinced, why are you here?

You are here for validity otherwise you would have been doing your hypnotic meditation (to say even "meditation" is insult to meditation word).

We have seen enough brainwashed tricks. Do not play same thing here.
PreviousNext

Return to The BKWSU

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests