The Cycle, belief in identical world events every 5000 years

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ex-l

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Science and The Cycle

Post01 Sep 2006

Hi.

The usual Cycle busting science question ; Death of a Star.
For the first time, scientists have observed the spectacular death of a massive star in real time. The supernova lasted for nearly 40 minutes, NASA's Swift satellite was able to turn its lens towards the explosion to observe the star's slow death. The burst occurred in February when a massive star, located 440 million light years away in the Aries constellation, collapsed.

The speed of light is constant and a measurable fact. So what they are saying is that this event actualy took place 440 million years ago. Whether it did or did not ... we know that the star existed there before February.

So, how does the star get put back there for the same time next cycle?

freefall

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5000 year cycle

Post14 Oct 2006

OK. This topic has already been discussed in various BK forums. Here it comes again.
    If everything repeats itself exactly after 5000 years, what is the point of BKs doing any sadhana?
After all if they did so 5000 years ago, they will do it now again; otherwise they cannot. What is the point of giving BK teaching to anyone? What is the point of trying to become devata? Only those are going to become devatas anyways who did so 5000 years ago. So what is all this fuss about?
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john

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Post14 Oct 2006

Dear Freefall

Speaking from within the BK knowledge revealed in Sakar Murlis, it is said. "Those that don't make any effort, won't even receive a glass of water." In other words it is only wth the karma/action of making effort, will there be any reward. It is also said those that sit back and think 'if it is in drama I will become or not', in other words, don't make the effort because they think it is fate anyway,will lose out.

So overall, even if it is predestined, efforts will still have to be made to get a result, as per the karma teachings in Gyan.

freefall

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Post15 Oct 2006

Thanks John for your response. I wonder how anyone can gloss over this evident contradiction.

'Those who don't make effort will lose out' is fine but can they really do it otherwise if everything is predestined?

In a way it means that the losers will be punished for no fault of them; meaning that BK theory of karma is false.
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john

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Post16 Oct 2006

Hi Freefall
In a way it means that the losers will be punished for no fault of them; meaning that BK theory of karma is false.

Yes, that is a good point, even though someone does an action and reaps the benefits or otherwise according to karmic laws, yet still they have no say in it because it is all predestined, therefore should they be held accountable....

I have no real answer for that, except to say karma is a law of life and it is not Shiva's law or BK or anyone's law. I, myself, haven't been able yet to read all Sakar Murlis, so my understanding is limited as to how Shiva fully explains (or not) the Laws of Karma.
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Mr Green

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Post16 Oct 2006

5000 years? Get real already :lol:

bansy

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Post19 Oct 2006

BK theory of karma is false.

The problem of the Raja Yoga theory of karma is that it is enclosed within the 5000 year cycle. So far, no one is able to explain clearly how negative karma creeps into the entire cycle, since everything was perfect at the beginning. The closest explanation has been that Golden Age souls have inherent "dormant" vices that spring to life after natural degradation over time (which also does not fully explain how natural nature itself gets worse if everything was perfect, and how the apples and grapes in the Golden Age become less tasty over time). One day, maybe during the Copper Age (or even before ?) I suddenly become lusty, and a few days later, get angry because my atttached partner has been greedy and eaten all the chapattis, and so all hell breaks loose thereafter.

I agree with John, that karma, at the outset, looks like a simple understanding of receiving the benefits or punishments from your actions. However, you only reap the benefits when you are UNAWARE of your actions, however we are told to do service and have positive actions and thoughts in order to achieve a high status ... which means you are aware of your actions so as to produce good results, which therefore defeats the very objective from the start. If you are pure enough to know that that you do not even know or aware that you have become pure, then I believe you have reached your goal. But in Raja Yoga, you are told to be number one, to be equal to God, in which case you are continously measuring yourself, and in essence proving something which is unattainable.

I do believe in doing good things for things and others, but not for the sake of what is around me, but for the conscience that is inside me. Whether it is within 1 year or 5000 years, with destruction or no destruction. Have seen many souls "fear" of doing certain things in case it turned out to be bad karma, which again really means they are expecting to reap the benefits before they even start out the very action.

Anyway, have yet to fully understand what is "karma", although someone else previously has said it is just something humans have made up since God does not need it.
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pbktrinityshiva

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Post20 Oct 2006

The rehersal for the universal drama is now being held ... whether we like it or not the soul is set to record. Not God's choice, just how it is buddy.

The director is in his chair giving directions. He's a good director, director of the directors ... trust me, take his tips on how to act and you'll get the part you desire ... he's been in the business for an eternity.

Wanna be the hero or heroine of the show? or a main character? Or are you happy just having any part? Didnt wake up and missed rehersal ... director will give you another chance ... but hey we gotta record this thing sometime do not we?

Think you can direct better? Here have your own mini-series ... just do not complain if it doesnt turn out the way you planned. Better keep in touch with the director. He's good at this stuff.

And so the reel of your births spins ...

freefall

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Post20 Oct 2006

pbktrinityshiva wrote:Wanna be the hero or heroine of the show? or a main character? Or are you happy just having any part?

You think you can change your part? Don't fool yourself. Your part was already decided 5000 years ago and another 5000 years ago and another...
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pbktrinityshiva

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Post21 Oct 2006

Of course ... but if i make effort now i will have always have made effort.
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tinydot

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Identical World Events every 5K "Godly" year-units

Post13 Dec 2006

What does an identical WORLD cycle really imply? It cannot be a fact. It's only a belief. We would never know the truth about it. And there is no need to know. There is no need to defend that which cannot be proven. It has been told to us by Shiva/Brahma. Just take its face value about it! Well, the fact is, events may be similar.

Our freedom to choose had already happened last cycle. Is this the BK line of thinking? Whether it is understood correctly or not, it breeds the feelings of helplessness, arrogance and inequality, and it raises the question of being free at all. It doesn't really solve the issue of freewill assuming it exists. If you believe in predetermination, please, oh please, do not preach the value of freewill.

If souls were equal then there are equal chances of becoming great/ungreat, of becoming kings/subjects relative to the infinite number of events. Similar reasoning of flipping a coin a thousand times, proves that head (or tail) comes out close to 50%. You may be a subject in the Golden Age many times, but in the eternal periodic world events after every major world renewal/catastrophe, you can become an emperor some time. There is no need to think of being punished by Dharamraj. There is no need to think of subtle punishment. You reap the effects of your actions in this life and in your next life. That is already your punishment. We are being continuously re-numbered depending on how we live our present life. That is absolute justice in my perspective.

Why do we say that the World Drama is perfect and beneficial at every step, when we cannot physically settle the karmic effects of our own actions at the time of destruction? We then passed it on to the "catch-all" theory of subtle punishment to resolve the unfairness we see in the physical settlement, and then we apply the fixing of our numbers in Paramdham. Is this the truth BKs convinced themselves in. I can smell some form of arrogance in this. I'd like to think all souls (those pure points of beings) are equal on every footings. Numberwise is true in a relative way. We are numberwise relative to the previous world ages.

Well, that's only my opinion but I am comfortable to hold on to my beliefs about it and I have bet my life and principles on it. There is nothing really to worry and be jealous about who gets the bigger slice of pie this time. We have equal chances of being great in the infinite number of world events. WE ARE EQUALS, HEADS AND TAILS OF THE SAME COIN!!!

~tinydot
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john

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Post13 Dec 2006

Yes, if you say all are equal. then still some choose to be bad and some choose to be good. Tell a criminal about spiritual principles and he will most probably laugh in your face. Every soul has an equal chance to seek out goodness, spirituality, God, but they don't, so there you get the inequality.

If the Law of Karma is true, then it is an undeniable law, a principle of life, which through rebirth we forget about and through spiritual birth we are reminded of. Shiva doesn't make the law he just reminds us of it and explains the implications and consequences, then we choose to believe or not.

To me the identical cycle of 5,000 is the only way there can be an absolute truth, because nothing can be changed and therefore what is told by Shiva can be absolutely true.
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tinydot

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Post13 Dec 2006

John wrote:Yes, if you say all are equal. then still some choose to be bad and some choose to be good. Tell a criminal about spiritual principles and he will most probably laugh in your face. Every soul has an equal chance to seek out goodness, spirituality, God, but they don't, so there you get the inequality.

Honestly ... I don't see really a criminal. I see a soul. And this soul will play a role of being great as we see the eternal infinite spiral of events. Please don't expect him to be a criminal next cycle, :-).

I disagree with the Christian point of view of eternal damnation which is the same as being a criminal in a prison every cycle.
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john

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Post13 Dec 2006

I don't see really a criminal.

That is very noble. When a criminal rapes or kills a member of your family, will you still feel so noble?
Please don't expect him to be a criminal next cycle, :-)

Well they did it last cycle, so why do they do it again?
I disagree with the Christian point of view of eternal damnation which is the same as being a criminal in a prison every cycle.

Yes that is good, but no one outside of spiritual life will listen to you, so therefore will continue on there own path. Because you have listened to this knowledge you now at least have some kind of choice, whether you take it, believe it or not is different.

I feel the important thing is to keep trying to understand knowledge on a deeper level and also a more practical level, if we don't understand properly , how can we put the principles into our daily life...OK someone may be able to for a while, but old sanskars will spring back without proper understanding and continued effort.
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Mr Green

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Post13 Dec 2006

I take a slightly different view on knowledge John, but similar too in that I don't think there is any 'depth' to it, looking for the jewels or churning the butter is all just religious masturbation

Read the Murlis, see what's good for you take it in your life and move on, one of the obvious proofs that the BKWSU is a religion is the fact they encourage you to pour over the same texts day in day out in a religious way ... over and over so you develop the idea that if you do this enough you wil change or become 'pure'.

No different to reciteing the Koran over and over.

My point is, and off topic I know, to just assimilate The Knowledge that has meaning for you in a simple way, forget all this extrapalation and dissection. It's just the life of a pundit and serves only to harden the ego.

Just my opinion :lol:
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