The Cycle, belief in identical world events every 5000 years

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john

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Post13 Dec 2006

Mr Green wrote:My point is and off topic I know, is just assimilate The Knowledge that has meaning for you in a simple way, forget all this extrapalation and dissection, it's just the life of a pundit and serves only to harden the ego.

Yes I think it is a good idea to take from The Knowledge what has meaning to oneself. I think The Knowledge as revealed by BKSWU is just the start, the basic foundation. Looking into the BKSWU after a long absence I can see there has been no developements in the level of knowledge. I was expecting to find great revelations, but found none that I hadn't known about before, decades ago.

I think all the developements in knowledge are coming from the PBKs.
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tinydot

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Post13 Dec 2006

John wrote:That is very noble. When a criminal rapes or kills a member of your family, will you still feel so noble? Well, they did it last cycle, so why do they do it again?

Let's get things straight pertaining to world events. Cyclic concept is not a fact, it is a belief. Spiral concept is a fact. I am happy to get out from the jail of cyclic thinking. BK cyclic concept though helped me in the refinement of my beliefs and relationship with the Supreme.

Yes, I would feel mad at the rapist and will bring him to legal justice. But I will hold on to my belief that the original nature of a soul is pure, and that doesn't exclude the rapist. He chose to be bad this lifetime, but the question is, could he have chosen to be good? The answer is yes. The possibility exists. If you say no because he had chosen the same act last cycle, then how can we get out from the chicken and egg idea. If we go deeper, we realize that he chose that rape act because that is part of his soul. Then how could the soul be considered pure? And then please don't have the slightest impression that my Sister was raped because "(s)he (in the previous birth) raped someone else. And who committed the first rape, Brahma?

I feel we have to open up our minds with other good possibilities. The only way to have a vision of equality of souls is to accept the eternal spiral nature of time.
Yes that is good, but no one outside of spiritual life will listen to you, so therefore will continue on there own path. Because you have listened to this knowledge you now at least have some kind of choice, whether you take it, believe it or not is different.

Doesn't bother me at all. I am out of religious way of thinking, including the BK concept of time.

Mr. Green ... you made me laugh!

~tinydot
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john

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Post13 Dec 2006

Let's get things straight pertaining to world events. Cyclic concept is not a fact, it is a belief. Spiral concept is a fact.

What do you mean spiral concept is a fact?
Yes, I would feel mad at the rapist and will bring him to legal justice. But I will hold on to my belief that the original nature of a soul is pure, and that doesn't exclude the rapist. He chose to be bad this lifetime, but the question is, could he have chosen to be good? The answer is yes. The possibility exists.

If you say no because he had chosen the same act last cycle, then how can we get out from the chicken and egg idea. If we go deeper, we realize that he chose that rape act because that is part of his soul. Then how could the soul be considered pure?

As you say the original nature of the soul is pure. That doesn't mean it will always remain pure. the potential rapist in his pure original state would not rape somebody only later on in his degraded form would this happen.
And then please don't have the slightest impression that my Sister was raped because "(s)he (in the previous birth) raped someone else. And who committed the first rape, Brahma?

No, actually I never said that, maybe some BK said it to you, but I never did.
I feel we have to open up our minds with other good possibilities. The only way to have a vision of equality of souls is to accept the eternal spiral nature of time.

But if someone doesn't consider it to be true why should they accept it.
Doesn't bother me at all. I am out of religious way of thinking, including the BK concept of time.

Yes, you should believe what you feel is right, but that doesn't stop the possiblilty of the cyclic nature of time being true, however many people disbelieve it.
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tinydot

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Post13 Dec 2006

John,

Jagdish book "Eternal Drama" part two has the concept of spiral nature of time. He tried to disproved it by associating it with linear concept. Though, I don't agree with his line of thinking.

Yes, you never said that "She raped someone ...", I apologized for misunderstanding. I am refering to "impression (non verbal)", which I take to the BK line of thinking in general.

The concept of exact cyclic global events every cycle can be true but it can never be a fact. I sleep everyday but not at the same clock time and in different positions. That is the concept of spiral nature of time.

~tinydot
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tinydot

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Post15 Dec 2006

John wrote:As you say the original nature of the soul is pure. That doesn't mean it will always remain pure. the potential rapist in his pure original state would not rape somebody only later on in his degraded form would this happen.

Degradation of quality (physcal or moral) is a fact. But there is no reason to believe that the SAME VERY ACT will happen at the SAME POINT IN TIME and LOCATION next Kalpa. What if the rapist's car tire got flat along the road and my younger Sister had already flown to India? He would then rape my Sister's twin (my youngest Sister). And there you go ... the spiral nature of time.

We observe the spiral nature of time in every activity of any living beings. Why then do make a leap of faith in favor of the exactness cyclic nature of time?
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tinydot

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Post15 Dec 2006

I have no idea ...

If that can happen to our own sun, we see how the concept of non-total annihilation of the world cannot be true at all in the literal sense.

We don't know for sure if all stars die ... I hope not. Even if the sun dies, I believe that energy has an intrinsic property of salvaging its lowest form and organizing itself into complicated structure. We know that the space background is at 4 degrees Kelvin. Any form of perturbation or organization in space creates a slightly lower temperature background within the vicinity of the organized structure. We observed 3 degrees Kelvin in the lab.

My only guess is the interplay of material particles in space is eternal and completely reversible. Though a lot of scientists still believes that the second law of thermodynamics to hold true in the cosmic level.
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celtiggyan

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Post16 Dec 2006

It is not really known that the speed of light is a constant throught the Universe since it has never been measured elsewhere - but we assume it is. However, your point about The Cycle. In this Universe things cannot repeat - of course not. The only way it could happen would be if there was some form of parallel Universe where we transfer onto! Either that or we live in a Matrix (i.e. like the film)!

C
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Mr Green

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Post17 Dec 2006

One of the BKs favourite arguments for 'proving' that things repeat was the idea of deja vu, they said this is the soul remembering the last time.
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ex-l

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Post17 Dec 2006

tinydot wrote:Jagdish book "Eternal Drama" part two has the concept of spiral nature of time. He tried to disproved it by associating it with linear concept. Though, I don't agree with his line of thinking.

I was looking at a romanesque cauliflower, click for link, yesterday and was inspired by the spirals nature of it; how one spiral breaks up into minor spirals in a fractal like manner.

Then thinking of the nature of shells and the Golden Ratio which again is a spiral, knowing that it is found all through biology. Where do simple Cycles fit in nature apart from mechanical functions? I am not a scientist soul so I make no claims in this department. The lazy mind craves simplicity but I have to believe that reality, even spiritual realities, is a lot more extensive.

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tinydot

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Post25 Dec 2006

John wrote:I have no real answer for that, except to say karma is a law of life...

If theory A and theory B contradict each other, then it is safe to hold theory A and match it with theory C and set aside theory B. Or, hold theory B and match it with theory D and set aside theory A. For me, that is the basis of being rational, and you can honestly say, I don't have the answer for my non-contradicting theories, but I am comfortable about them because they are compatible (forget for the meantime scientific evidence, that can be an additional consideration later). However, once we resolve the contradiction between contradicting theories, then we can always come back to our original theories. We become detached observers, and nobody will punish us for being rational and doing our home work.

I find it ridiculous to accept contradicting theories and just say ... I don't have the answer. Well, who are we trying to fool here except ourselves. Just reminds me of a Christian who ask a Mormon, "If somebody threw the Bible and Mr. Smith's Book at the same time into the fire, and you have equal chances of catching EITHER the Bible or Mr. Smith's Book but not BOTH, which book would you save? We cannot be that greedy ...

So for me, it is better to have, even in this lifetime, to hold own principles, our own non-contradicting theories, as long as we don't get attached to them to the point of being blind.

That to me is the basis of living a sound and honest life.
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Mr Green

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Post25 Dec 2006

Everyone knows the BK theories of drama and karma contradict themselves, it does not add up at all.

freefall

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Post25 Dec 2006

pbktrinityshiva wrote:of course ... but if I make effort now I will have always have made effort.

You have just put it on its head. Does future come after past or earlier?
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tinydot

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Post26 Dec 2006

My brain is not circular and therefore, this circular reasoning doesn't work.

OK, let's get things straight. What do souls have in the Soul World? Merged qualities of good and bad. Is that all? Nope. What about that "merged tendency" to kill on September 11, 2001, of that specific soul (ranking in the 6 Billionth)? Is that "merged tendency" to kill on that specifc date and time, PART and PARCEL of that specific soul?

If YES, I would STOP here (I can smell racism even in Paramdham) ...

If NO (i.e. not part and parcel), what causes that same soul to kill on that same specific date and time? His choice. Well, does he have any other choice? Certainly, he does!
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andrey

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The one who has done the terrorism will appear to be happy w

Post26 Dec 2006

If theory A and theory B condradict each other, then it is safe to hold theory A and match it with theory C and set aside theory B. Or, hold theory B and match it with theory D and set aside theory A.

That’s why we just hold only one theory, we don’t need B or C. We just need one theory, because truth is one and everything else will be proven false. It is even easier, there is no internal conflict. We just put all our’s sake on one. Then if we win…we win a lot. If we lose – we lose everything, but it is more exciting like this. And of course we bet on what we really think is true. At least we’ll be clear with ourselves.
Everyone knows the BK theories of drama and karma contradict themselves

In what way the theory of Drama and of karma contradict to each other? Future becomes past and past becomes future in exactly the same time. Its because the Supreme Soul Shiva knows that He plays exactly the same role, so why should anything else be different. Karma becomes akarma in the Golden and Silver ages, however the role still is fixed, then our actions become negative and still this is fixed. Then it is fixed for us to become karmateet. What part of the drama are we now. Each soul has its own cycle in the big cycle.
I can smell racism even in Paramdham

Yes, souls do reside in their own sections in the Soul World. The Supreme Soul resides the furthest away. He has The Knowledge of the drama and does not think – what would it be if ... He knows what happens when ... The same way we can accept the past as part of the drama, the present and the future too. Then souls does not have choice, but since we don’t know our part we try to play a good one, still it will appear we had no other choice. And now is the time that every soul gets to know his part (section) and also becomes contented with it, because drama is created in this way – a perfect drama, we see that we lost something – only at first glance – we won something else, we also, when we become knowledgeful we don’t blame others, because no one is to blame. The one who has done the terrorism will appear to be happy with it and the ones who have died will appear happy with this part and the ones who had attachment with those who died will realize that, "oh, I did not have the chance to be good to this soul now he’s gone, now I don’t have a chance to be good with him, I’ll change myself and be good to others from now on", for example, and there will happen to be benefit for them too.
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ex-l

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Post26 Dec 2006

tinydot wrote:What about that "merged tendency" to kill on September 11, 2001, of that specific soul (ranking in the 6 Billionth)? ...

andrey wrote:The one who has done the terrorism will appear to be happy with it and the ones who have died will appear happy ...

What makes the theory even more difficult is that the souls that committed the 9/11 attacks were a "BETTER, MORE POWERFUL, GREATER EFFORTMAKER LAST CYCLE" than a soul taking its first birth today, or in the last 5 or 10 years ... so how is better and worse measured? Were there more virtues in such acts or are newer souls going to commit even worse act ... but aren't new souls meant to be having their little Golden Age when they first incarnate?
The Supreme Soul resides the furthest away.

How do you make a relative measurement in a matterless infinity or is Paramdham not infinite?
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