The Golden Circle

I do remember Sister Jayanti speaking about this trance messenger who disagreed with Baba's views, considered herself as important, and left because of clashes. I remember recollecting that from my memory after the bhathi, and I have a strong feeling that it could be Gita Mata at the beginning of the Yagya.

Lekhraj Kirpalani only started to be Shiv's Chariot in 51. Before that it was her (or Sevakram) who used to be the chariots, and dictated the classes to Lekhraj Kirpalani, who would read it in class. This is what I was told. I don't remember if that comes from the bhatthi or a clarification. It is understandable that the BK institution want to hide this and turn the story in their advantage, and change the role of Gita Mata in one of the medium with a big ego trip, daring to disagree with God/Lekhraj Kirpalani.

This is the way Sister Jayanti presented her.

Sister Jayanti has not witnessed the happenings. She speaks only of whatever she has herself heard from Dadi Janki, most probably, who is only an ordinary human being and as anyone has her own subjective perceptions. For example, once asked a man from the station at Abu Road who knew Lekhraj Kirpalani has said that, "yes, i knew this man. He was definitely a very good man, but was definitely not God". There are a variety of perceptions; one can call him God, other not.

Golden Circle could have existed at that time, like people talking amongst themselves and creating this name, but it is one thing what people think and something else that God reveals through his knowledge. Like now, no matter in the latest Avyakt Vanis Avyakt BapDada may say that numbers are not fixed, you may love the Dadis, but the numbers are not fixed, some may think that BapDada is just speaking like that and Dadi is definitely a fixed number.

The only pure and reliable source of information is the Murli. There is difference between historical, scientific and other type of knowledge we may get from human beings - be it in a form of sentiments from the past, or something they could have learned themselves. There is only one source of spiritual knowledge that gives it without study. This knowledge is new and new points emerge all the time. It cannot be found in any book, the recollections or recordings of any human being, even in the Murli. It concerns the matters of the soul, the Supreme Soul and the world drama.

Yes, I do agree with you Andreybhai.

The point I was trying to make is that Sister Jayanti, I am pretty sure, knows about Advanced Knowledge. So whenever she gives talks and casually speaks about events in the past, it strongly feels like it is to undermine what is being said in the Advanced Knowledge. The way she presented the Sister who might be Gita Mata with contempt, amongst other stories of some who had ego trips believing that God talked through them, and living the Yagya, she managed to push a main actor in the drama at the level of an insignificant role in a side story.

Remember that all the beginning of the Yagya, the presence of Sevakram, Gita Mata, Radha bachi, who were themselves teachers of Lekhraj Kirpalani and Om Radhe, the old Murlis called the Piu Vanis, all of this has been totally erased from the official history of the Yagya. So when one aspect of it sprouts out, they just want to make sure no one can believe it.

When we were chucked out fom our center, there was a very strong talk from Sister Jayanti about what they call the "Shankar Party". Again, as if the conversation derived naturally from the current subject, very well planned, with some Sisters asking the right questions at the right time. It was total defamation of the Advance Party.

She even said that, "they are not pure". When you know that amongst PBK the Kumaris and Kumars are not even allowed to talk to each other, they even avoid to look at each other, and sometimes they put a lock between the Brothers part and the Sister's part of the building. If you compare it with the level of liberty that is given between Brother and Sisters in the BK environment, who are the purest?

For example, once asked a man from the station at Abu Road who knew Dada Lekhraj has said that, "yes, I knew this man. He was definitely a very good man, but was definitely not God". There are a variety of perceptions; one can call him God, other not.

Andrey, there is something wrong with your mind. I do not mind saying this to you outright. Others are complaining, you need to check and discuss this.

I do not know what goes wrong with you. You are obviously intelligent and dedicated, but at others times you go about like a caveman with a club beating anything and anyone down. On that club it is written, "there is only one God ... only one God ... there is only the Murli ... only the Murli", and that is it. No discussion, no depth, no subtlety; just beat, beat, beat. It is almost as if the revelations on this forum make you so confused or so unhappy that you have to beat them down flat so they do not exist any more.

Aimée makes some very good, and subtle, points here. I would agree with her analysis of Sister Jayanti as a very skillful, calculating and incisive (means cutting) person. But as one of the BKWSU's leaders, evidence shows that she is just as capable of dishonesty or manipulation over the history of the Yagya as the rest of them.

If you used your brain rather than your club, you might see what was going on here. Jayanti has had long-term, direct access to all the Dadas and Dadis.

Do you think that they do not discuss such matters?
Do you think that they have not sat down and discussed "policy" over such matters?

It is a dangerous vulnerability to be so naive.

The Murlis maybe part of your best bet, but they are no longer either pure or reliable sources of information that is why we have to look for other sources of evidence. We know they are being re-written and re-edited ... it is ridiculous to suggest that 5 years chopped out of no where signifies anything. Aimée mentions here the Pui Vanis, I mentioned the English written "Divine Decrees". Virendra Dev Dixit offers his clarifications ... what are you talking about?

Now let me go back and finish what I wanted to post about Vishwa Ratan's book ...

Andrey Bhai

I think the main thing you are missing is that the idea of the Golden Circle and the ideas given in Advanced Knowledge match up. If anything you should be encouraging investigation of the Golden Circle because it lends great weight to the revelations through Virendra Dev Dixit.

The question on my mind is, how did Virendra Dev Dixit already know these things, were they common knowledge in 1969 when he joined the BKWSU?

Piu Vanis are believed to also be the words of ShivaBaba, then the Murlis through BB is ShivBaba in the form of a mother, and the clarifications are the Murli in the form of the Father. Divine decrees are like written, compilation-like presentations of The Knowledge, like advertising. Then any book is totally of a human being. Of course there may be points of knowledge there, but who wrote them, how did he understand them, what did he mix from his own, these are bound to be in such cases, as with the case when narrating. There is no cutting, edition or mixing in the clarifications.

All the details around the history of the Yagya should surely be known. The books we take reference to and Murli points we refer to have always been there, then why did nobody make such speculations or sensation about this? If one understands it is for him. I just appeal for concentrated, thorough, indepth reserch, quiet and fruitful. We should not seek sensation, because it lasts only 2-3 days then we are left with the old effort do do. The old efforts we have to do will always remain, we'll have to do it, no matter which year Murlis started. Understanding some details or depths of The Knowledge will make one more tolerant. We should not use it in any way to harm other, put blame, agitate etc.

We all come here due to free will to express ourselves and share willingly. There is no need for encouragement in this. We also need not stop anyone in doing anything. We are free. It is said that every important task we should start doing ourselves, then if you say someone has got to go to India, do this and do that, then yourself you do whatever you say others should do.

The only pure and reliable source of information is the Murli. .

Good Morning Andreybhai!

Once again you've proved to this forum of your inability to accept what anyone else says, feels or wishes to share, despite your comments otherwise. I take personal affront when you post such inane comments that reject any other ideas or processes. To say that the Murli is the ONLY pure and reliable source of information is downright ludicrous to say the least.

You need to re-read (within this BKWSU History forum) that the (BK-version) Murli has been subject to so many changes in the past and has been edited to suit current BK needs. Considering your current title of PBK I do recognise that you may probably not be speaking on behalf of the BKs but has it ever entered your head that us ex-followers may have found other sources of what we consider reliable and pure information which works for us and our current spiritual journey? You have not indicated this and I fear that you are incapably of administering this concept to yourself one iota.

Once again the call has gone out to all members of this forum, either active or not, to supply Murlis in full, in order for all of us to accept the authenticity and to engage in open and fair discussion of same.

Kindly take into consideration that you have a closed mind and closed eyes before loading your comments and directing them at us in such a dogmatic manner, we've all been done that path and by being here most of us have CHOSEN to walk our talk in a different more open and loving manner.

Dear Brother,

If you have a path to walk, and be happy, then this is very good. The Murli is also only basic knowledge which is not very clear. Now there is clear knowledge in the form of Advanced Knowledge.

It is for those who are poor, weak, lost and unhappy, who don't have a path, who don't feel comfortable anywhere else. Who do not find happiness in the world. The Father gives them big responsibility that now unhappiness in the world is going to increase, mountains of sorrows will fall, but you have to stay firm, tolerate and be happy.

In the Gita it is said that, "those who worship the spirits, receive benefit from the spirits, those who worship deities receive benefit from deities, and those who worship me receive benefit from me"

PS: You are from South Africa. Is Africa East or West?

Now there is clear knowledge in the form of Advanced Knowledge. It is for those who are poor, weak, lost and unhappy, who don't have a path, who don't feel comfortable anywhere else. Who do not find happiness in the world. The Father gives them big responsibility that now unhappiness in the world is going to increase, mountains of sorrows will fall, but you have to stay firm, tolerate and be happy. PS: You are from South Africa. Is Africa East or West?

My response:

re: Advanced Knowledge comment: What are you saying? Are you stating that I need to learn Advanced knowledge?

re: Gyan is for those who are poor, weak and lost etc. The point has been raised many times within this forum about the 'type' of person attracted to the BK's and/or its splinter groups, so you have just proved that the BKs probably leech off this type of person and only use VIP's to enhance this process. Thank you for posting that confirmation.

Re: South Africa, East or West. Why should there be a difference? and this is exactly what I have been saying, all you are doing is trying to categorise someone in terms of their philosophies and faith, so that you can determine how open one will be to reading your Gyani postings so that perhaps you can convert them. A quick look at any world map will show Africa to be situated exactly between East and West and us here down South don't subscribe to either ... you are welcome to come to Africa and do some real service in the poor, lost and extremely weak areas we have in this continent.

I note that we are not able to have an open conversation on any level with you, your intellect is unfortunately stuck in one understanding only, so I will stay firm, tolerant and happy as you suggest. Thank you for giving me this blessing.

Dear Brother,

Yes, please excuse me. It was speculation. I mean that The Knowledge is for those who are happy with it. If you feel some pressure, then it is my fault. I know people engaged in spirituality, are all different, like different things, i mean this is for those who like this. If one likes it a little and other things a little, then everyone is free. It is said in the Murli that there can be only one spiritual knowledge. The supreme spirit is also one but this idea cannot be forcibly implied.

Baba via Virendra Dev Dixit says that heaven will not be created by giving donation to the poor. Everyone now understands it is the end, what has to be done etc, no one knows. I just feel it very precious knowledge for the one in need. It is said that those who are thirsty will get their thirst fulfilled, those who are hungry will have their hunger satisfied.

It is said that those who are thirsty will get their thirst fulfilled, those who are hungry will have their hunger satisfied.

What about those that follow blindly, will they get their sight restored?

It is said that there is benefit in following the Murli with closed eyes. It is different. If you have faith that these are words of God, it is not blindly. Sight is of knwoledge to know yourself God, drama.

There is also this example of the blind and the lame, they both help one another to cross the river of poison. The blind cannot see, but can walk - it is a matter of the power of purity, these souls does not have knowledge but have power of purity. Others have knowledge but are lame to purity. None of them can cross on his own. The blind gives support with his body and takes the lame on his shoulders and the lame shows the way.

Anyway back to the Golden Circle.

AndreyBhai,

Have you asked Virendra Dev Dixit about the Golden Circle yet? You say it is just gossip, but have you checked?

Yes, i have.

It is said that there is benefit in following the Murli with closed eyes it is different. The blind cannot see, but can walk - None of them can cross on his own. The blind gives support with his body and takes the lame on his shoulders and the lame shows the way.

Ahh - thanks for your answer, the blind indeed cannot see. Its much like the donkey following the carrot ...