The Golden Circle

for discussing revisions in the history of the Brahma Kumaris and updating information about the organisation
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Mr Green

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Post17 Oct 2006

Do you know about the Golden Circle?
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ex-l

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Post17 Oct 2006

Mr Green wrote:do you know about the golden circle?

Not at all ... the mysteries keep unfolding ...
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Mr Green

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Post19 Oct 2006

ex-l wrote:Not at all ... the mysteries keep unfolding ...

There was a girl in the early days who used to 'be entered' by Shiva ... I've been watching too many "Carry on" films :lol:. She used to relate Gyan to Brahma in the very early days ... He was not the medium. This came about later.

They took great care and attention of her and some say she was given new clothing etc every time this took place, in the same way as they do now with Mrs Gulzar. Now, the BK version of events, and Sister Jayanti told me this story, was that she started to develop too much self-importance and Brahma felt she was becoming too big headed. She felt that, because she was the medium, she should have more say in the running of the Yagya. There were others that agreed with her who felt that she had more authority than Brahma. The story follows that eventually she and her circle of supporters came to be known as "The Golden Circle" (with its "maya-istic" connotations) and they were eventually ejected from the Yagya, she and her supporters ... The Golden Circle.

The two children; what I heard about them was they would be dressed as Krishna and Radhe (the first princess of the Golden Age) and they would allegedly go into trance and manifest the Golden Age consciousness, acting as if they were in the future age. This sort of thing used to go on a lot. People entering each other all over the place, Mama's soul coming back after her death etc, all sorts of 'Carry Ons' ...

I was a good friend of Satish from Ilford. Before he died, he used to tell me about all sorts of freaky goings on in the early days.
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john

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Post19 Oct 2006

Mr Green

A great bit of information cheers! This is not told at all in the Biography of Brahma Baba by Jagdish. It just says, "Brahma is the medium", whether Jagdish knew or not?

It does sound a bit like what the PBKs are trying to say about the early days. Are there any Seniors you know of in the UK, who could or would still relate such stories?
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ex-l

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Post19 Oct 2006

Mr Green wrote:She felt that because she was the medium that she should have more say in the running of the Yagya, and there were others that agreed with her and felt she had more authority than Brahma. The story follows that eventually she and her circle of supporters came to be known as the Golden Circle (with mayaistic connotations) and they were eventually ejected from the Yagya, her and her supporters ... the Golden Circle.

Well, I suppose that I can understand why they might want to give God his own pair of clean knickers but a completely new outfit each time does seem a little excessive. I mean, could they not just keep one outfit aside especially for him and clean it regularly? (Is this Shrimat or Bhakti) Does Gulzar get to keep his brassieres to wear afterwards or are they all just thrown out!?! The mind boggles. Personally, God is a lot more like Gandhi in my book and so I would have expected him to be happy with something simple and cheap and well worn.

With regards to the Golden Circle ... is this then the same group that the PBKs refer to that included Sevak Ram and Mata? And is there where the start of the bad blood between BKs and PBKs began? I never actually gave Jagdish any credibility. For all his efforts, he was loved but ridiculed in the West. If this is true and there is more to come out as I believe it to be, this historical re-writing on top of the Murli re-editing utter condemns the integrity of the BKWSU organization and makes them look very immature.

I am very interested in all this, we may be able to piece together a more complete and objective picture of the history of the Yagya despite their efforts to bury the truth yet.
    • Any PBKs care to fill in details here?
If I just add a couple of thoughts here. "Take control" may just be the BKs point of view. May be, as the PBKs say there were issues on both sides. The BKs say the Golden Circle were kicked out, but were they kicked and by whom; or did they walk out of principle? Was there some competition between a group with the BKs and them for BB's kingdom? Did BB and Shiva Baba do the chucking out? If it was the proto-PBKs, may be they did do wrong but had to be thrown out of the kingdom to learn some lesson. It all sounds like some courtly drama out of a Bhakti story and more like the story of the Pandavas and the Kauravas than anything the BKs told me.
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Mr Green

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Post20 Oct 2006

Yes, it is possible they upped and went, quite likely in my opinion. You could imagine how uncomfortable things must have become

There are maybe only a few people left in this country who could relate tales of the early days, but as to whether they would I do not know ... There is Manju from ilford, who is unlikely to share unless Dadi said it would be alright, and Jayanti too who would maybe share, I don't know ...

Satish told me that at one time there was another Brahma in the Subtle Region, but that is something I could never get my head around ... that aspect of Gyan is so steeped in Indian mythology, (the Trimurti, i mean). It cannot really have anything but a religious based meaning for Westeners
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john

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Post21 Oct 2006

Mr Green wrote:I was a good friend of Satish from ilford, before he died and he used to tell me about all sorts of freaky goings on in the early days

Well, if you can recall any more stories we're all ears.

According to the book 'Peace and Purity' (story of BKs) by Liz Hodgkinson, Jagdish 'dedicated' to the BKs in 1953, so there's a very good chance he knew what happened in the early years, yet he doesn't document it in his book AdiDev ... So is it a cover up or did he just not think it relevant to his book ...

Also in this book (Peace and Purity), it says Brahma Baba died from a heart attack, which I am sure it doesn't say in the Jagdish book.
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ex-l

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Post21 Oct 2006

John wrote:Also in this book (Peace and Purity), it says Brahma Baba died from a heart attack, which I am sure it doesn't say in the Jagdish book.

This is what the PBKs say, so another point to them for being truthful.

Its funny but in India, the big name gurus die in true yogi style. Knowing the time of death or chosing an auspicious one, they sit and then leave their body at will. It sounds as though Lekhraj Kirpalani still had some karma to deal with and reality has been airbrushed out again.
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ex-l

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Dadi Janki Sister and The Golden Circle

Post06 May 2007

I heard that Dadi Janki's Sister was one of The Golden Circle, is this true?

Is she part of her family that Janki meets secretly whilst she talks to the rest of us about how detached from lokiks she is and we should be?
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john

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Post07 May 2007

I am wondering how widespread the information of the Golden Circle was in the BK world.

It may be that the leaders from splinter groups had received all this information and then 'decided' they were the reincarnations of these souls to give themselves importance and some kind of credibility. I think the Golden Circle era is well worth investigating. Maybe a lot of information we seek is already there.
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Mr Green

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Post07 May 2007

I too have heard this about Dadi Janki, that her Sister was one of the number that left under the mantle of The Golden Circle and that this is a great issue for Dadi Janki.

I heard this from a high ranking SS who seemed very serious about it

The girl who was the medium was very young as well.

vivaespana

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Post07 May 2007

All of this stuff sounds quite spooky and too good to be true don't you think !!! It brings shivers down my spine to know that I have been involved with such and organisation for so many years. The more I think about it, the more spooky it feels.

Vivaespana
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andrey

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Post27 May 2007

Golden Circle is not mentioned in Murli, nor in any book. Baba (via Lekhraj Kirpalani) has not given this name. People could have given. "Heard" and "narrated" matters are called "gossip". Like there can be gossip who is in the 8 etc.
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john

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Post27 May 2007

andrey wrote:Golden Circle is not mentioned in Murli, nor in book. Baba (via DL) has not given this name. People could have given. Heard and narrated matters are called gossip. Like there can be gossip who is in the 8 etc.

There are lots of things not mentioned in Murli (1965-1969), but they have been edited and that period is not the complete set of Murlis. What is in the other 30 years worth of Murlis?

Maybe, just maybe you might now understand why we have been wanting all Murlis and documents available.

Was it ever mentioned in Murli that Brahma was God Father? No, yet early documents reveal this was how he was seen by BKs in the earlier days , maybe until 1949.
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paulkershaw

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Post28 May 2007

andrey wrote:Golden Circle is not mentioned in Murli, nor in any book. Baba (via Dada Lekhraj) has not given this name. People could have given. "Heard" and "narrated" matters are called "gossip". Like there can be gossip who is in the 8 etc.

Andrey

John has a point - what us ex-BKs are saying is that there are great differences in the BK/PBK teachings and the Murli's. I personally would accept the Murli's as 'truth' if there were not so many discrepancies in the history of the Yagya. Just to tell us that these points are not raised in a Murli or a book is not good enough for us. Whilst you may choose to believe that the Murlis (for you) are the truth, we are questioning the validity because the past discrepancies are not being cleared up either by the BKs or the PBKs.

I believe they cannot be cleared up because they have been changed and edited to suit a particular need within the original organisation. Whilst the PBKs have probably done a great job of splintering away from the original group due to them, questioning the validity of the original BK knowledge, we still need clarification. Whilst I respect everyone's viewpoint, not everyone on this forum believes the Murlis or gayni points raised to be true.

Because a Murli, or a book, does not mention the 'Golden Circle' does NOT mean it doesn't or never existed, quite the contrary indeed.

Please help by providing all complete relevant Murlis, or specific viewpoint, so that we can all stay away from what you are calling 'gossip' and create a truthful and factual, provable forum expereince.

Ta Much
~p~
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