Who is teaching RajYoga?? [from when and to whom??]

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arjun

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Post21 Dec 2007

shivsena wrote:also if Krishna is adulterating the Advanced Knowledge with his own manmat, then why are the PBKs insisting to drink this adulterated knowledge as given by ShivBaba; it has been said in cds that if a drop of poison is added to a pot of milk, then the whole milk becomes poison and knowing this fact PBKs still take pride in drinking this poisoned milk;

But it has also been said in the Murlis that even if any mistake is committed by Brahma, ShivBaba takes responsibility for the same and corrects it. :)
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shivsena

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Post21 Dec 2007

arjun wrote:But it has also been said in the Murlis that even if any mistake is committed by Brahma, ShivBaba takes responsibility for the same and corrects it.

This is what the BKs also say about the Murlis when PBKs give them Advanced Knowledge and now the PBKs say the same. The question is: why first allow Brahma to interfere and divide the family and cause subtle bloodshed (sankalpon ka khoon) and then ShivBaba comes in the end to take the responsibility for seperating and then rectifying things.

shivsena.
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ex-l

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Post21 Dec 2007

shivsena wrote:The question is: why first allow Brahma to interfere and divide the family and cause subtle bloodshed (sankalpon ka khoon) and then ShivBaba comes in the end to take the responsibility for seperating and then rectifying things.

Because it fits in with concepts of God and Godly behavior already present in Hinduism that Indians are happy with; wrathful gods, warring gods, tricky gods, lustful gods ... stuff the West gave up somewhere between 2,000 years ago after the fall of Greece and the death of the Pagan Gods and The Enlightenment.
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andrey

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Post22 Dec 2007

The idea is that Hindu Gods have been taken by the Greeks and then Rome. Initially there also used to be only one God. Then with time adultery crept in.

In this same way, in Christianity, now there is worship not only of Christ, but Mother Mary, the 12 saints, other saints and ordinary human beings and our contemporaries who have been proclaimed as saints by the church. This is a natural process of disintegration that we see in the BK/PBK familly also.
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ex-l

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Post22 Dec 2007

andrey wrote:The idea is ...

Would you care to provide any historical references for such outstanding claims!?!

Do you have an equivalent claim for the Celtic, Nordic and African gods?
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andrey

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Post22 Dec 2007

I mean in Hinduism in the beginning there used to be only one God also. I don't know about the Greeks. It is possible that they have taken the Gods in their adulterous stage when they had become many.

Raja Yoga can be said to has been thought in Karachi and Mount Abu also through Dada Lekraj, because as we know from the Murli there are 8 Narayans in the Golden Age, so when did these Narayans claimed their thrones and through whom?
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ex-l

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Post22 Dec 2007

andrey wrote:Raja Yoga can be said to has been thought in Karachi ...

BKs can and will say anything against all evidence. So what does that prove? And how ... because there was no mention or consciousness of Shiva until ... when ... post 1950? We still don't know and have no evidence of when Shiva entered into the equation.

If you don't know anything about history, demand to remain wilfully ignorant and cant prove your point with either a historical fact or a Murli, please just don't start typing andrey.

Its only BK faith and propaganda that states that in Hinduism there used to be only one God ... its your imagination to suggest that the Romans, Greek and everyone followed en suite.
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alladin

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Post22 Dec 2007

I am not a theologean but according to what we studied in school and historical and archeological evidence, the ancestors of romans and greeks, whose religions were polytheistic, were animists. They worshipped nature, like in all tribal societies; no name, trace or mention of monotheism.

Animism survives and underlies any religion and regime, even very strict ones like Islam. It is a very deep sanskar in the human world. We can see it in the BK family as well (worshipping portraits, katoris, Baba's sponge and towel ...). But these points are all listed in the relevant topic about Bhakti and BKs.
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andrey

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Post23 Dec 2007

Maybe topic should be separated.

In the Greek mythology there is also the story that Zeus decided to destroy the human race and only Deukalion and Pyrrha got saved. (Shankar and Parvati). Then they started throwing stones (souls) all arround. The ones Deukalion throwed became males (rudramala). The ones Pirra throwed became females (vijaymala). From one stone came the greeks.

Most part of the Europe history is based on what is written by the greeks Herodothos, Tukidith. There is no reason to believe that their view was not partial. They also did not know where did their nation came from, how did it originated.

Before peole got in contact with the Indian culture they thought that these myths originated in Greece. Science, culture, astrology has been learned by those who has previously developed it. I think no one argues that the Indian civilisation is older than the Greek.

This same way Rome does with the Greek civilisation. Obviously Greeks have taken the culture in its already degraded stage. This is not a new idea that all nations originate from one place. This process is visible in the economy now that to one and the same manufacturer, just a new brand is put. It must not be just a coincidence the similarity of the mythology of African, Nordic, Celtic nations.

The way to look for our past is from written documents, remains, and from the language. Hindi and most of the European languages belong to one and the same group of languages and there are similarities.

Here is whatever it is said about research of bones. It is written in 1859, "... nature itself shows each minute that there is change at grand in each animal, so how about few centuries of no change of the remains of the first men and their dead heads, even more in the ground. We see each day that one animal or plant that is moved to a different place where there is different air, starts changing and becomes different altogether. To such laws is subject the man, the creature with speach, so if we like to know to which of today's tribe did some head belonged from dead and decayed bones it is like trying to take the reflection of the moon out of the water or fighting the wind ..."

Somewhere in the PBK literature it says the role through Brahma Baba starts 51.
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ex-l

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Post24 Dec 2007

andrey wrote:It is written in 1859, "... nature itself shows each minute that there is change ... so if we like to know to which of today's tribe did some head belonged from dead and decayed bones it is like trying to take the reflection of the moon out of the water or fighting the wind ...".

I think science, technology and common knowledge have moved on a little bit since 1859 ... is this a Jagdish Chander quote?

Amongst the Proto-Indo-European religions exist Prithvi mata ("Mother Earth") and Dyaus pita ("Father sky") from which we get Zeus, Deus etc. Originally it was one word meaning "heaven and earth". They predate Shiva and Somnath significantly. Other gods include the god of thunder, god of dawn etc. I go along with alladin that the first religions worshipped nature, the natural universe (Sun, Moon), trees (because they reach up to heaven) and then ancestors.

Rather than the physical Sun being a memorial for ShivBaba, I would say from the other evidence we have that it is the other way around. ShivBaba has supplanted him or themselves UPON the already existing common symbolism and said ... "that is me and mine too". Any and every god. Each and every time they came over another god or religion, it was chopped up and stuck in the soup so every one would taste a bit of their own and be attracted.
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andrey

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Post24 Dec 2007

Dear Brother,
It is not Jagdish Chander. Can this be in 1859. It is just a non BK literature reference that I found interesting for so long ago it raises the same issue that we have available now.

Other point was where do we have reference for our history from. If we have it from a human being he will always be partial. for eg scientist reserchers, historians they all search in their own direction.
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shivsena

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Post24 Dec 2007

Murli point on RajYoga:

Murli 6-2-03; Shiva says, "The Father teaches RajYoga only when hatyoga ends. Hatyoga and RajYoga cannot be taught together".

In the above Murli, Shiva is clearly speaking about RajYoga being taught in future by Father Ram, when hatyoga taught by Krishna during the shooting period of Dwapur and Kaliyug ends(from 1989 to 2010 ). There cannot be any RajYoga study during the period when the Murlis were spoken by Shiva from 1947 to 1969 in front of BKs; nor there can be RajYoga study during the period when Murlis are being revised every 5 years.RajYoga can be taught only by the no. 1 soul (Ram's soul) who first controls his own sense organs by achieving the 100% nirakari stage and only then He is qualified to teach RajYoga to 108 souls when He becomes Ramshivbaba.(a doctor can make a doctor, a engineer can make a engineer. a lawyer can make a lawyer; so only world controller Ramshivbaba can teach 108 souls first to control their sense organs and then to rule their respective sections of the world. Bindi ShivBaba is not world controller.)
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pbkdivya

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Post25 Dec 2007

shivsena wrote:RajYoga can be taught only by the no. 1 soul (Ram's soul) who first controls his own sense organs by achieving the 100% nirakari stage and only then He is qualified to teach RajYoga to 108 souls when He becomes Ramshivbaba

Dear Brother,

Can you produce any Murli quote which directly says that raj Yoga can be taught by Ramshivbaba. But on the other hand there are Murli quotes which say the sermonizer of Gita is trimurthi Shiva.
shivsena wrote:Since you are aware that Krishna is interfering in Advanced Knowledge, then many more queries arise; Why does the all-powerful ShivBaba allow Krishna to interfere with The Knowledge and what is the objective of Krishna interfering and mixing his manmat with that of ShivBaba; also if Krishna is adulterating the Advanced Knowledge with his own manmat, then why are the PBKs insisting to drink this adulterated knowledge as given by ShivBaba

The simple fact that Krishna is interfering is because he is given shelter in a corporeal body. Any soul that is given shelter will definitely interfere. Does it make any difference whether Krishna interferes or not. is not everyone's upliftment depends on one particular soul only? Everyone's upliftment has nothing to do with Krishna's interference. If Krishna hasn't interfered, then it will be only ShivBaba speaking and from the beginning till the end , it will be the true Gita only. Then the whole concept of this study will be false.
it has been said in cds that if a drop of poison is added to a pot of milk, then the whole milk becomes poison and knowing this fact PBKs still take pride in drinking this poisoned milk; that also explains why the PBK family is going downhill spiritually and splitting into various groups and those who remain as PBKs also have different views about the same Murli point; these are the points which need to be highlighted and addressed.

The speciality of PBKs is that eventhough thay are aware of Krishna's interference, their mind is focussed on ShivBaba only. Krishna's interference in Advanced Knowledge doesn't have any effect in their faith on ShivBaba. It is just a matter of time. When the soul of Ram has equalized his stage to ShivBaba, then everything will be revealed. All PBKs (except you) read Advanced Knowledge as they are aware that Advanced Knowledge is not wholly Krishna's invention. Child Krishna's interference doesn't annoy or offend the PBKs.
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shivsena

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Post26 Dec 2007

pbkdivya wrote: Can you produce any Murli quote which directly says that raj Yoga can be taught by Ramshivbaba. But on the other hand there are Murli quotes which say the sermonizer of Gita is trimurthi Shiva.

Dear divya.

I have given enough quotes from Murlis stating that 'Ram is Father', 'Ram is ShivBaba', 'Ram is bhagwan'; and there are enough quotes stating that 'Father will teach RajYoga'; so combining the above statements any blind person can also say that it is Rambap who will come and teach RajYoga to only 108 souls. Trimurti Shivbindi cannot teach RajYoga as He does not become world controller; only world controller Rambap can teach how to control the senses and the world.

Also one Murli point does not prove or dis-prove anything; every Murli point has to be viewed with reference to other Murli points and collectively all points have to be reviewed carefully and logically to arrive at a conclusion. Also i have quoted many points on Ram and PBKs feel that all these points are applicable to Shivbindi and not to nirakari stage of Ram; so if i quote any point which says that Ramshivbaba is teaching RajYoga then PBKs will again say that it is refering to bindi Shiv and not to Rambap; this will go on and on and there will be no end to any debate.

shivsena.
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arjun

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Post26 Dec 2007

shivsena wrote:I have given enough quotes from Murlis stating that 'Ram is Father', 'Ram is ShivBaba', 'Ram is bhagwan'; and there are enough quotes stating that 'Father will teach RajYoga'; so combining the above statements any blind person can also say that it is Rambap who will come and teach RajYoga to only 108 souls. Trimurti Shivbindi cannot teach RajYoga as He does not become world controller; only world controller Rambap can teach how to control the senses and the world.

Dear Brother,
When pbkdivya asked you to produce Murli point on Ramshivbaba teaching RajYoga, you produced different Murli points and expect us to combine all these to infer that RamShivbaba will teach Rajyog, but when PBKs use the same formula to infer that the role of Shankar, Prajapita, Bharat and the Confluence-Aged Ram/Krishna is played by the same personality, you say that there is not even a single Murli point.

I still await proof from your end regarding the mention of the word 'RamShivbaba' in any of the Murlis/Avyakt Vanis.
Also one Murli point does not prove or dis-prove anything; every Murli point has to be viewed with reference to other Murli points and collectively all points have to be reviewed carefully and logically to arrive at a conclusion. Also I have quoted many points on Ram and PBKs feel that all these points are applicable to Shivbindi and not to nirakari stage of Ram; so if I quote any point which says that Ramshivbaba is teaching RajYoga then PBKs will again say that it is refering to bindi Shiv and not to Rambap

This is what we want to convey to you that only one Murli point does not prove or disprove anything.

PBKs generally don't view Shiv as a point of light, but as a combination of the incorporeal Father and His appointed corporeal Chariot. Just as you do not get tired of writing such statements about PBKs, I think we should also learn something from you and tirelessly continue to give you clarifications :D. But I don't know how long Admin. will allow us to repeat the same statements over and over again. So, I hope we reach some understanding as to our beliefs. Each one is free to have his own belief, but ... :).

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun
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