PBK Shivsena's beliefs

you must also know that anything which can be challenged, defied or criticised cannot be the truth or the Word of God (as no soul in the world has the guts or power to criticise Supreme Soul's words, just as the sun's brilliance cannot be challenged by anyone).

Logical fallacy, unsustainable presumption with plenty of contrary evidence to suggest it will be not only challenged ... but used to start cults, religions and splinter groups.

But, come one Shivasena ... make more to your life than being the thorn in Arjun's side. Why not put a fraction of effort into laying down the foundations so that ALL might have the opportunity to study in at least English and Hindi?

Please see latest find of original 1942 Hindi Mahabharata as in other recent post. Your comments welcome.

And indie, and all others, it is 'ex-l' (as in loser), not 'ex-one'.

It is so bizarre that you have remembrance with a dead personality but you discourage PBKs not to waste time on ghost stories spoken by the same dead person that you are having Yaad. It is just like asking guidance from the late Indira Gandhi rather than the present Manmohan Singh.
Om Shanti -- indie

Dear indiana.
You can see the bizarrness in the churning of one soul, but it is a pity that you cannot see the bizarrness in the PBK Godly family.

The most bizarre thing in this world is the PBK Godly family, where one gives a letter of faith in writing to alokik parents (jagatpita and jagdamba) and the parents in turn address the children as "Bhai-behan" and not as "baccha-bacchi", and new PBKs are born even though the parents have been seperated. This bizarre ritual just beats everything else in the world.

PBKs point a finger at BKs saying that how come BKs are born after 1969, when there is no Brahma with them in Sakar, but they forget to look at themselves and ask how PBKs are born, when mother jagdamba is not in the Yagya.

shivsena.

You can see the bizarrness in the churning of one soul, but it is a pity that you cannot see the bizarrness in the PBK Godly family.

Dear shivsena Bhai,

I did not say that your churning is bizarre but your Yaad is bizarre. Moreover you dissuade PBKs not to read Advanced Knowledge (i.e. ghost stories as per your presumption) but you are remembering the same ghost who intervenes Advanced Knowledge. It is absolute hypocritical of you to remember the ghost when you dissuade the others not to read his versions. It is similar to that of an atheist who wants to have a temple wedding.

The most bizarre thing in this world is the PBK Godly family, where one gives a letter of faith in writing to alokik parents (jagatpita and jagdamba) and the parents in turn address the children as "Bhai-behan" and not as "baccha-bacchi", and new PBKs are born even though the parents have been seperated. This bizarre ritual just beats everything else in the world.

You get agitated for a simple procedure of giving a letter of faith. The most fundamental aspect is that, Father is there and nothing else matters. If we are being addressed as "bhai-behan", then one should have the awareness that it is Brahma alias Krishna soul is calling us that. I don't know what's eating you, but most PBKs are aware of Krishna's interferrance in Sakar Murlis and also in Advanced Knowledge and that it is just a matter of time that Rambap will attain his 100% nirakari stage and the settlement of dispute of knowledge will end.

PBKs point a finger at BKs saying that how come BKs are born after 1969, when there is no Brahma with them in Sakar, but they forget to look at themselves and ask how PBKs are born, when mother jagdamba is not in the Yagya.

Is not there a Sakar Brahma in the PBK world as it is said in the Murli "Whoever I enter will be called as Brahma." At least we have a personality in the PBK world whom we can address as "Baba" but the BKs don't have a Sakar "Baba" in their community. Also the PBKs do not point a finger at the BKs; they are only trying to reveal the appointed Chariot of Supreme Father Shiva.

Om Shanti -- indie.

But, come one Shivasena ... make more to your life than being the thorn in Arjun's side. Why not put a fraction of effort into laying down the foundations so that ALL might have the opportunity to study in at least English and Hindi?

Dear ex-l.

I have no intention of being a thorn to anybody. My pure intention is to wake up the PBKs to the happenings in the PBK family and let them know that the Advanced Knowledge is not the clarification of Murlis given by ShivBaba but it is manushya mat which is causing the downfall of PBKs. There are many PBKs who are having doubts about the Advanced Knowledge but do not know the reason behind its degrading ambiguous nature nor where to find the answers. So I just want to share my research with them and guide them to the study of Murlis and Vanis (as all the answers will be found there).

As regards your repeated requests to upload the Murlis for study, then I feel that it is not necessary to read the whole Murlis to understand The Knowledge. Most of the Murlis contain repetitions and general talk with few gems spread out in between and those gems of Murli points are being quoted on the forum by various Brothers and there are enough points on the site http://www.PBKs.info which can be churned individually and one can make his own conclusions.

Also if one is really interested in acquiring the Murlis with a true heart, then one has to just remember ShivBaba and he will send the Murlis to you, just as I got all the Murlis sitting at home. (As it is said in Murlis that ''ShivBaba is children's most obedient servant''), so HE will see to it that children's needs will be met. (I have experienced it in practical, as I am still getting all the Murlis sitting at home ). As regards avaykt Vanis they can be bought at any local BK centre, just as I have purchased the whole set of Vanis (Rs 20/- per Vani) from 1969 to 2005 from BK center through my BK friend.

shivsena.

I agree with what you say but I think the need for the "complete Murlis" is really to do with gaining individual's trust that what they are being given is the true and complete thing.

I think this is the main weakness in your policy. Individual's only have your word that what you have taken is in taken context and I think most will be suspicious or defensive against that. Additionally, by being a master donor, you will also gain their respect and gratitude, hence they will be more open to what you are saying.

It takes a long time for individuals to at first grasp the basic knowledge, then risk their faith questioning it to gamble on uncharted territory with no obvious support from the leadership they are addicted to. I can see the theory you propose. I do not think it is contrary to the possible message or meaning. But it is unproven and hence needs very broad and wide study first by as many individuals as possible.

I also see that the de-centralisation of the current BKWSU is attractive and the empowerment of all essential. So give them what they want and let them start to make their own assumptions of it. If what you say is true, the chosen few will find their way there.

Shivsena doesn't need to worry of his future status as he is the deputy of ShivBaba.

Dear indiana.

We all are numberwise deputy (children) of ShivBaba who are trying to reveal ShivBaba in their own way.

You are trying to reveal bindi ShivBaba through Advanced Knowledge and I am trying to say that personified Ramshivbaba (Gita sermoniser) will be revealed only in future when Brahma ki raat is over and Krishna becomes 100% brashtachari. (Murli point: 'Behad ka bap behad ki Brahma ki raat ke anth mein aate hain")

So there is nothing wrong if you call me deputy of ShivBaba.

shivsena.

You are trying to reveal bindi ShivBaba through Advanced Knowledge and I am trying to say that personified Ramshivbaba (Gita sermoniser) will be revealed only in future when Brahma ki raat is over and Krishna becomes 100% brashtachari.

Dear shivsena,

Have I ever stated in any of my postings that ShivBaba can be revealed through Advanced Knowledge? Whenever there is the interferance of Brahma, alias Krishna's soul, ShivBaba cannot be revealed. As ShivBaba is neither revealed in Sakar Murlis nor in advanced knowledge.

(Murli point: 'Behad ka bap behad ki Brahma ki raat ke anth mein aate hain")

Can you translate the Murli quote in English for the non-hindi speaking souls.

So there is nothing wrong if you call me deputy of ShivBaba.

I am glad that you are elated when I have referred you as the deputy of ShivBaba.

Om Shanti -- indie.

Have I ever stated in any of my postings that ShivBaba can be revealed through Advanced Knowledge? Whenever there is the interferance of Brahma, alias Krishna's soul, ShivBaba cannot be revealed. As ShivBaba is neither revealed in Sakar Murlis nor in advanced knowledge.

Dear indiana.
If you and other PBKs are not revealing ShivBaba through Advanced Knowledge, then who are PBKs trying to reveal. Please specify.

(Murli point: 'Behad ka bap behad ki Brahma ki raat ke anth mein aate hain")

It means that the ''behad ka Father will come at the end of Brahma's night''. (sometime in future)

shivsena.

If you and other PBKs are not revealing ShivBaba through Advanced Knowledge, then who are PBKs trying to reveal. Please specify.

Dear shivsena Bhai,

The PBKs are trying their level best to clarify that the Almighty Authority Shiva hasn't left this hell yet as promised by Him that He will never leave till paradise is established and after the demise of Brahma Baba, Supreme Soul Shiv is residing in the appointed Chariot (i.e. Baba Virendra Dev Dixit). They are revealing the permanent Chariot of Father Shiv. If one doesn't know where to link their intellect with ShivBaba, then there is no development. Also the PBKs are aware that when Baba Virendra Dev Dixit has attained the 100% nirakari stage, then the role of shiv-shankar will commence. Moreover the PBKs also have the awareness that as long as Brahma alias Krishna's soul interferes, no knowledge can be termed as the "true Gita." Satisfied??? Anything else???

Om Shanti -- indie.

The PBKs are trying their level best to clarify that the Almighty Authority Shiva hasn't left this hell yet as promised by Him that He will never leave till paradise is established and after the demise of Brahma Baba, Supreme Soul Shiv is residing in the appointed Chariot (i.e. Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit). They are revealing the permanent Chariot of Father Shiv. If one doesn't know where to link their intellect with ShivBaba, then there is no development. Also the PBKs are aware that when Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit has attained the 100% nirakari stage, then the role of Shiv-Shankar will commence. Moreover the PBKs also have the awareness that as long as Brahma alias Krishna's soul interferes, no knowledge can be termed as the "true Gita." Satisfied??? Anything else???Om Shanti -- indie.

Dear indiana.

You have still not answered my direct query: if Advanced Knowledge is not ''true Gita'' then what can it be called??? Why are you afraid to say openly, that Advanced Knowledge is ''Krishna ki jhooti Gita'' which is establishing jhoot khand in the Advance Party.

For almost 10 years, I was under the impression that Advanced Knowledge is ShivBaba's clarification of Murlis. Then from 2001to 2003 i was also accepting that Krishna is interfering with Advanced Knowledge. But since 2003 onwards(after study of Murlis and Vanis) I am now convinced that the whole Advanced Knowledge is nothing but Krishna ki jhooti Gita, which is establishing hell in Advance Party and only when Ram=Shiv=Ramshivbaba, then sacchi Gita will come forth from the Chariot and paradise will be established.

I cannot accept the concept of ''half truth and half lie'' (because it is said "half truth is worse than a lie", as it gives you a false sense of security) and very soon the whole PBK family will have to face this bitter truth.

Whatever one has to say, one must have the courage to say it with 100% confidence.

shivsena.

You have still not answered my direct query: if Advanced Knowledge is not ''true Gita'' then what can it be called??? Why are you afraid to say openly, that Advanced Knowledge is ''Krishna ki jhooti'' which is establishing jhoot khand in the Advance Party.

Dear shivsena Bhai,

I am unafraid to speak my mind and there is nothing to be afraid of when discussing knowledge. I believe that the soul of Ram churns and speaks advanced knowledge as it is said "this Father churns and relates to you" but it cannot be termed as the true Gita because of Krishna soul's interferrance and causing ambiguities. Moreover whatever the soul of Ram speaks in advanced knowledge cannot be termed even as the true Gita because He still hasn't attained the 100% nirakari stage yet.

Only a 100% nirakari stage can speak true Gita. It is up to you whether you desire to call advanced knowledge as "Krishna Ki Jhooti" or anything else, that is your prerogative. As for me, I am aware of Krishna soul's interferrance in Sakar Murlis and in advanced knowledge, so it doesn't trouble me in any aspect. I just ignore the ambiguities that are caused by Krishna's soul and have the awareness that it is part of the drama for Krishna's soul to intervene. So my faith never 'die away' from this knowledge or ShivBaba.

It is nerve-wracking to you but not to me. Also I will not consider the whole of advanced knowledge to be false as there is some truth in it for e.g 'it is said that Supreme Father Shiva is the Father of souls', 'we have to get the inheritance from Him', 'if you keep remembering the Father, happiness will increase', 'the inheritance of peace and happiness is received by you children', etc. Don't you agree that there is some truth in advanced knowledge and not consider the whole of advanced knowledge as false.

only when Ram=Shiv=Ramshivbaba, then sacchi Gita will come forth from the Chariot and paradise will be established.

I agree with you that Ram will equate his nirakari stage to that of Shiv but till date you haven't provided any Murli quote to corroborate your perspective that Ram is the sermonizer of true Gita.

I cannot accept the concept of ''half truth and half lie'' (because it is said "half truth is worse than a lie", as it gives you a false sense of security) and very soon the whole PBK family will have to face this bitter truth.

Everyone loves truth and when there is awareness, then there is nothing to jeopardize one's security. If truth is bitter, then let's face it with courage and truth shall open our eyes.

Whatever one has to say, one must have the courage to say it with 100% confidence.

I have said my part and i don't practise hypocrisy. The pleasure is yours to say what you like.

Om Shanti -- indie.

Dear shivsena Bhai,

I believe that the soul of Ram churns and speaks advanced knowledge as it is said "this Father churns and relates to you" but it cannot be termed as the true Gita because of Krishna soul's interferrance and causing ambiguities. Moreover whatever the soul of Ram speaks in advanced knowledge cannot be termed even as the true Gita because He still hasn't attained the 100% nirakari stage yet.

Dear indiana.

This is something absolutely new to me and most PBKs, who have so far believed that the whole Advanced Knowledge is spoken by ShivBaba and now you say that the whole Advanced Knowledge is Ram's churnings with Krishna's interference. Can arjunbhai or any other PBK confirm what indiana says.

And what is the role of ShivBaba, when Ram and Krishna are both making a total mess of Advanced Knowledge. Is ShivBaba just a silent observer ???

shivsena

This is something absolutely new to me and most PBKs, who have so far believed that the whole Advanced Knowledge is spoken by ShivBaba and now you say that the whole Advanced Knowledge is Ram's churnings with Krishna's interference.

Although it is believed that around 1976 it was the churning of the soul of Ram (Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) that laid the foundation for the Advance Party (of PBKs) but once Clarification Murlis began to be narrated, by ShivBaba (through Veerendra Dev Dixit), it is believed that it is Shiv who narrates the Advanced Knowledge (clarification of Murlis/Avyakt Vanis) while the soul of Krishna (Dada Lekhraj) reads out the Murlis/Avyakt Vanis, besides interfering in the clarifications sometimes in between.

... while the soul of Krishna (Dada Lekhraj) reads out the Murlis/Avyakt Vanis, besides interfering in the clarifications sometimes in between.

Although I understand that it is the practise to have faith that this is happening in a literal sense, is there any chance that it is meant in a more metaphorical sense, e.g. that the "spirit of Lekhraj Kirpalani" is not a literally spirit-soul but the metaphorical influence of Lekhraj Kirpalani's thinking and the mental conditioning based on it, to the BK movement?

... while the soul of Krishna (Dada Lekhraj) reads out the Murlis/Avyakt Vanis, besides interfering in the clarifications sometimes in between.

Although I understand that it is the practise to have faith that this is happening in a literal sense, is there any chance that it is meant in a more metaphorical sense?. I mean that the "spirit of Lekhraj Kirpalani" is not literally a "spirit-soul" in Virendra Dev Dixit's head but the metaphorical influence of Lekhraj Kirpalani's mixed up thinking (e.g. the remaining egregore), and the mental conditioning the Brahma Kumaris use, over the followers of BK movement?

Simple version; real spook or psychological, sub-conscious effect that few realise?