Murli points on Ram

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shivsena

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Re: Murli points on Ram

Post17 May 2008

arjun wrote: She said that as far as she knew it was the PBKs from Karnataka, who started calling Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit and Kamla Devi as Baba and Mama in 1985/86. She also informed that it was only in 1985/86 that the name of Kamala Devi was added in the letters of faith Arjun

Dear arjun Bhai.

Whether it is 18 years or 20 years, the question still remains : why did it take omnipotent Shiva (bap-teacher-satguru) 18/20 years to come out of the womb of Advanced Knowledge and be revealed as "Baba"???

As regards the nischay-patra, there are many souls who have not studied a single Murli or Vani on their own and realised Baba's part, but they have given their letter of faith just because the soul who introduced them, made it compulsory to write the letter of faith before meeting Baba; there maybe more than 80 % of souls who have given the nischay patra because they were shown only those Murli and Vani points which probably and possibly point out towards Chariot (Brahma's part) but when scrutinised deeply, none of the Murli points or Vani points (as well as practical happenings) give any indication that it is ShivBaba who is riding that Chariot at present during Brahma ki raat.

So giving nischay patra mentioning Virendra Dev Dixit being ''Baba'' and Mama as ''Maa" has no bearing or binding whatsoever on any soul who is giving his letter of faith (he can very well alter his faith after some time). Due to ignorance and with due respect to the Chariot, Brahma can be called as 'Baba' during Brahma ki raat, but ShivBaba (whether Shiv or Ram) has no role whatsoever to play during the night of ignorance.
This is what i strongly feel.

shivsena.

shivsena

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Re: Murli points on Ram

Post14 Jun 2008

Dear PBK Brothers.

In south India 'Ram' is usually pronounced and written as 'Rama'.

Just read on the internet that south Indian bhakti-marg scholars have described the meaning of word 'Rama' as 'Ra' meaning 'Ishwara' and 'ma' meaning 'Maya' (just as in picture of ardh-nari-ishwara, Shankar=Ram=Ishwara and jagdamba=Brahma=nari )
shivsena


mahashivratra1.jpg
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shivsena

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Re: Murli points on Ram

Post15 Jun 2008

Dear PBK Brothers.

Just read on the internet the significance of the mystical number 108 and wish to share it with you.

shivsena.

The Significance Of The Mystical Number 108.

Have you ever wondered why a typical beaded neclace from the East, called a mala, is always strung with 108 beads? You'll find this to be the case not only in Hindu traditions but also Buddhist, Sikh, Jain and virtually any tradition that has it's roots in India. If you've ever been initiated into the use of a mantra you've probably been told to chant your mantra at least 108 times a day, not fifteen minutes a day. Why? In Japan the Zen temple bells ring 108 times to bring in the New Year. Obviously this number is significant. But why not a more round number like 100?

The early Vedic sages were renowned mathematicians and in fact invented our number system. 108 was definitely the number of choice for this simple reason: 108 represents the whole of existence. Here's some interesting reasons why:

1. The number 9 represents wholeness and 108 when added together equals 9. 1+0+8 = 9. Interestingly, if you multiply 9 times ANYTHING, the answer is always 9 when you add the numbers together. Try it! 1x9= 9. 2x9=18 1+8=9. 285x9=2565 2+5+6+5=18 1+8=9. 8543x9=76887 7+6+8+8+7=36 3+6=9 The logic behind this is that 9 represents wholeness or God and God times anything is always God since God is all there is!

2. The 9 planets travelling through the 12 signs constitutes the whole of existence. 9 x 12 = 108

3. The 27 nakshatras or lunar constellations spread over the 4 elements - fire, earth, air, water or the 4 directions - north, south, east, and West. This also constitutes the whole of existence. 27 x 4 = 108

4. Consider the powers of 1, 2, and 3 in math: 1 to 1st power = 1; 2 to 2nd power = 4 (2x2); 3 to 3rd power = 27 (3x3x3). 1x4x27 = 108. The logic behind this is that 1 represents 1 dimensional reality, 2 represents 2 dimensional reality, 3 represents 3 dimensional reality. When you mulitply their powers together then you encompass the whole of existence.

5. The universe is made up of 108 elements according to ancient texts. The current periodic table claims a few more than 108.

6. The diameter of the Sun is 108 times the diameter of the earth (give or take a few miles).

Jai Sri Ram

For more detailed information on 108 you can type '108 significance' on google search and get a very comprehensive list of attributes linked to mystical 108.
shivsena.

shivsena

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Re: Murli points on Ram

Post12 Sep 2008

Dear indiana, arjunbhai, suryavanshi Bhai, and PBK Brothers.

Sacchi Gita khand 1 says that "prajapita Brahma ko Ram kaha jaata hai" (Murli 6-2-76) and all PBKs quote this point to argue that Ram is prajapita.

I have just uploaded the original Murli dated 6-2-76 which clearly shows that there is no such point in the original Murli which says that "prajapita Brahma jisko adam kaha jaata hai ... "

Now i do not know if this was a delibrate attempt on the part of personified Maya (who invented the Advanced Knowledge) to mislead the PBKs or it was a misprint which was overlooked by ShivBaba. If it was the former, then the whole Advanced Knowledge needs to be re-assessed and if it was overlooked by ShivBaba, then who is responsible for mis-leading the PBKs into believing that Ram is prajapita.

This should serve as a wake-up call for all those PBKs, who have just been reading and accepting the clarifications of Murli points offered to them during the Advance Course blindly and now they should realise that it is very important to read and churn the Murlis themselves and not rely on what is offered to them on a plate.('apni ghot toh nasha chade')

Please refer to download page and click on the link sm-06-02-76 pg.1.jpg

shivsena.
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arjun

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Re: Murli points on Ram

Post12 Sep 2008

Omshanti.
Brother new_knowledge had raised this issue and I had written to Baba to check with the book and the original Murlis. They did not find any such reference and sent the entire scanned Murli for information along with some Murli points which I passed on to Brother new knowledge. I don't know if you have received it from him or whether you have checked your own record and produced this Murli here. If you have really received it from some other source (including new knowledge) then you should have mentioned it. I did not produce that Murli on the forum as that was requested for Brother new knowledge through email. If he wishes he can produce them on the forum or if he permits I will do it.

Anyway, for everyone's information I would like to clarify (I think I have done it before too) that the literature printed by the Advance Party before the start of the use of computers in AIVV were produced by individual PBKs. There were very few nimit Sisters at that time who used to live at Kampil, a remote and small village with not even basic facilities like electricity, etc. So, those books could not be verified by the nimit Sisters or Baba personally. Now that there are enough nimit Sisters to do this job, the verification of the Murli points with actual Murlis is going on. I have heard that a revised True Gita Vol-I has been published in Hindi. By the way, if I am not wrong, the original unverified Sachchi Gita (True Gita) Vol-I-III were compiled by ex-PBK Dashrath Patel who now heads the Vishnu Party.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

shivsena

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Re: Murli points on Ram

Post12 Sep 2008

Dear arjun Bhai.

I am not able to understand what you are trying to imply. Are you trying to say that the Murli emailed to me by new knowledge is a manipulated Murli and that you have the original Murli 6-2-76, which says what is printed in Gita khand 1.

To solve all mis-understandings, please produce the original Murli dated 6-2-76 and all speculation will be put to an end.

shivsena.
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arjun

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Re: Murli points on Ram

Post13 Sep 2008

shivsena wrote:i am not able to understand what you are trying to imply. Are you trying to say that the Murli emailed to me by new knowledge is a manipulated Murli and that you have the original Murli 6-2-76, which says what is printed in Gita khand 1.

Dear Brother,

Omshanti. I am not saying that the Murli produced by you is a manipulated one, but that it was originally sent by AIVV to new_knowledge through me. But you simply used it as a stick to make accusations against AIVV without knowing the background.

Bro. new knowledge had asked me to find out from Baba whether the point "Prajapita is called Ram" is available in the Murli dated 6.2.76. I received a reply from the nimit Sisters that this point is not available in the above Murli. They sent the entire scanned Murli.
But they also sent the following Murli points:
" Ram kaha jata hai bap ko." mu. 24.8.04 pg-3 (The Father is called Ram)

"... Krishn kisi ka bap ho nahi sakta. Vah to chhota baccha , Satyug ka prince hai. Vah teacher bhi nahi ho sakta. Khud hee baithker teacher se parhte hain." Mu. 17.11.00 pg-1 (Krishna cannot be anybody's Father. He is a small child, the prince of the Golden Age. He cannot be a teacher too. He himself sits and studies from a teacher)

Since I am on a tour now, I cannot upload the entire Murli dated 6.2.76, but if you can request new knowledge he can send the entire Murli to you for being uploaded on this forum.
OGS,
Arjun

shivsena

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Re: Murli points on Ram

Post13 Sep 2008

Omshanti. I am not saying that the Murli produced by you is a manipulated one, but that it was originally sent by AIVV to new_knowledge through me. But you simply used it as a stick to make accusations against AIVV without knowing the background.

Dear arjun Bhai.

I am not making any accusations against anybody or against AIVV. A important error had been made which required to be highlighted and brought to the notice of AIVV.

Many PBKs with whom i am discussing my churnings are quoting the Murli point in 6-2-76 and are not getting convinced about 'Ram not being prajapita', till i produce the original Murli and so i requested new knowledge to search for the original Murli and when i received the scanned Murli from new knowledge, i just put it on the forum to let the PBKs know the truth. I did not know that the Murli was sent to new knowledge by you.

Now that AIVV knows that the Murli point in Gita khand 1 is a misprint, then what is being done to rectify it, because it is mis-guiding many PBKs.

Also it is unfair to blame dashrath Bhai, who was just instrumental in printing the compiled collections of Murli points into Gita khand 1-2-3. He never compiled the Murli points himself. The part of checking and correction should have been done by the nimit Sisters in Kampil before distribution.
shivsena.

new knowledge

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Re: Murli points on Ram

Post13 Sep 2008

Brother arjunbhai, I forwarded to shivsena that e-mail (sent by you) by deleting your bodily name, mentioned in that e-mail. And I forwarded that e-mail with your permission.

But Brother shivsena, you must have to clear your point of view about the query,
"if you view Ram as God in 100% Nirakari stage; then who is that Ram whose idols in corporeal form are being worshiped in the worship cult? And ... and there is no any clarification of failure Ram in any of your more than 500 posts in this forum. You must be clear about this failure Ram.

And arjunbhai, you too. Who is that 'Bap' (lokik, alokik, parlokik) who is entitled as 'Ram'? How many 'Baps' have I? And out of that so many Baps, who is/are worthy of the title Ram'?

Also, what is difference between Sangamyugi Ram, failure Ram & Treta ka Ram? Who is Treta ka Ram? - Vedanti or Baba Virendra Dev Dixit?


Most important. Dear arjun & shivsena, who is that Ram whose Seeta was kidnapped (symbolically?) by Ravan? Who is this Seeta? Is she Yugal (couple) of 100% Nirakari Ram, i.e, (Ramshivbaba?)? If He is alone (i.e, if He does not have any Yugal Seeta); then ... then, why is it sung that "[U]Raghupati Raaghav RajaRam, patit paawan Seeta-Ram"? If 100% Nirakari Ram (who is patit-pawan Ramshivbaba?) is not coupled with Seeta; then who is this couple of Seeta-Ram who are sung as 'patit-pawan'?

shivsena

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Re: Murli points on Ram

Post13 Sep 2008

Dear new knowledge Bhai.

Your queries are quite valid. I have done research and churning about only Ramshivbaba (one who attains 100% nirakari stage = incorporeal Shiv) and i too have similar queries about tretawala Ram and chandravanshi Ram and Ram who failed and the idol Ram who is worshipped in Bhakti. At present i have no answers to your queries.

When Ramshivbaba touches my intellect (as He has done in past) then i will put my views on the forum.
But one thing i know for sure that during the shooting period of Brahma ki raat there cannot be true Gyan of ShivBaba and we all PBKs are listening to jhooti Gita of Krishna and going towards durgati and not sadgati.
This is the basis of my churning.

shivsena.

shivsena

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Re: Murli points on Ram

Post14 Sep 2008

arjun wrote:I did not produce that Murli on the forum as that was requested for Brother new knowledge through email. If he wishes he can produce them on the forum or if he permits I will do it.

Dear arjun Bhai.
When you came to know that the original Murli 6-2-76 does not contain the point that "Prajapita Brahma is known as Ram", then was it not your immediate duty to put the original Murli on the forum and inform the PBKs about the grave error in Gita khand 1. Why do you require new knowledge's permission to put it on the forum. I was searching for this original Murli for last 4 years and If new knowledge had not sent me or posted it on the forum, then many PBKs would still not know the truth.

shivsena.
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arjun

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Re: Murli points on Ram

Post14 Sep 2008

shivsena wrote:When you came to know that the original Murli 6-2-76 does not contain the point that "Prajapita Brahma is known as Ram", then was it not your immediate duty to put the original Murli on the forum and inform the PBKs about the grave error in Gita khand 1. Why do you require new knowledge's permission to put it on the forum. I was searching for this original Murli for last 4 years and If new knowledge had not sent me or posted it on the forum, then many PBKs would still not know the truth.

I had informed new_knowledge that he can post the Murli on the forum or send it to anyone. It is not my mistake if he did not post it on the forum. Moreover, since the uploading of Hindi Murlis has been put on hold due to space constraint on the forum, I did not upload it myself. I have about two months of scanned Hindi Murlis from 2008 which can be uploaded on this forum if the Admin. permits.
shivsena wrote:Also it is unfair to blame Dashrath Bhai, who was just instrumental in printing the compiled collections of Murli points into Gita khand 1-2-3. He never compiled the Murli points himself. The part of checking and correction should have been done by the nimit Sisters in Kampil before distribution.

I am not blaming Dashrath Patel Bhai for those mistakes. I simply said that the number of surrendered Sisters (that too well educated ones) was very less when the book was printed and may be it could not be cross checked with the actual Murlis. In fact when I became a PBK around 1996, I was told by Baba himself that there are some mistakes in the book. Some AV points had been quoted as Murlis while some Murlis had been quoted as AVs. Now that there are enough nimit Sisters they are on the job. Even now the number of well-educated surrendered PBK Sisters is very less and they are over burdened with service all the time.

When compared to thousands of surrendered BK Sisters, the number of surrendered PBK Sisters may be just around 400 and even among them those who can do the service of checking translations, literature, replying mails on behalf of Baba, monitoring the websites, etc. is very less. When the book was published in early 1990s, I think there were just handful of surrendered PBK Sisters, who used to remain busy throughout the day in giving courses, cooking, and other works. So, it is easy to blame the nimit Sisters for the lapse of those who compiled the Murli points.

shivsena

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Re: Murli points on Ram

Post15 Sep 2008

Dear arjun Bhai.

So according to you, no one is responsible for the grave error which has misled many PBKs in past. When no one owns the responsibility, then one can easily blame Drama. It is the easiest thing to do.

shivsena.
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arjun

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Re: Murli points on Ram

Post15 Sep 2008

shivsena wrote:So according to you, no one is responsible for the grave error which has misled many PBKs in past. When no one owns the responsibility, then one can easily blame Drama. It is the easiest thing to do.

No, I am not saying that nobody is responsible. When the time comes responsibility will definitely be fixed. If the compiler of that book committed any mistake deliberately he will have to bear the responsibility. And if anyone else was given the responsibility to check the contents, but did not do so deliberately will also have to bear the responsibility. Nothing will remain hidden in this Confluence Age.

shivsena

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Re: Murli points on Ram

Post18 Sep 2008

Dear PBK Brothers.

A important Murli point about ''Ram and Ravan''.

Murli 12-5-94 says, "Tum bap ko Yaad karte ho toh Maya vighna dalti hai kyonki maya-ravan ko irshaa hoti hai. Tum Ram ko Yaad karte ho toh Ravan ko jalan hoti hai ki hamara murid Ram ko kyon Yaad karta hai. Yeh bhi drama mein noondh hai." (meaning: When you remember the Father, then Maya opposes you because maya-ravan gets jealous. When you (108) remember Ram then Ravan feels jealous as to why my follower is remembering Ram. This is also as per drama.")

In the above Murli, Shiva is clearly emerging 108 rudrabeads and is describing them about the future behad ka ravan-rajya where anyone who remembers Rambap will face much opposition from personified jealous maya-ravan whose main aim is to lead the PBKs away from Ramshivbaba (as it is evident from the discussion cd no 151/152).

shivsena.
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