Who is Maya ???

I have nothing against rational arguments with reference to Murlis and Vanis, but against irrational arguments for the sake of arguments; I just made a statement of what I observed and if you feel otherwise then it is just a difference of opinion (nothing personal against anybody). Nobody is doing any favour to anybody by expressing his views and taking part in this forum. We all are doing it because we have the time and inclination to share our views.

Thanks for the reply.

First of all the introduction is not direct, because he has not used the word "I", he has said "bap". Secondly, IF it was Shiv he cannot say "I" since he is Nirahankari. Thirdly, Who ever calls himslef GOD is Hiranyakashpa. So, IF it was Shiv, he cannot I am GOD.

Dear cal Bhai,

Father Shiv is God, so why shouldn't He says that He is God. When the term "GOD" is mentioned, then naturally GOD comprises of the three stages of nirakari, nirvikari and nirenhankari. Human beings cannot call themselves as GOD because no one (except Rambap) will emulate the stage of GOD Shiva. Also I have come across in Murlis, the term "God Shiva" is mentioned. Also it is stated in the Murli that "When the dot is combined with Alaf, benefit follows in."

So is it that God Shiva is waiting for Rambap's 100% perfection for God Shiva to declare himself as GOD. Also when Rambap has attained that 100% stage that is equal to God Shiva, then only it is said as 'ShivBaba.' As the 100% perfect stage of Rambap = God Shiva and then only it is said as ShivBaba. When it is said ShivBaba, it is said for both of their incorporeal stages.

It is always mentioned in Murlis as "ShivBaba says this, ShivBaba says that" and not said as "I", because the dot Shiv cannot do anything without merging into the incorporeal stage of Rambap. As there is a saying, it needs two to accomplish a task.

because the dot Shiv cannot do anything without merging into the incorporeal stage of Rambap. As there is a saying, it needs two to accomplish a task.

Dear indiana Bhai.
Welcome to the PBK forum.
I fully agree with you that neither Shiva or Ram alone can accomplish anything. Only when they combine to become parampita paramatma, then Godfather Ramshivbaba will be revealed to the PBK world. This is what i have been stressing in all my posts.
shivsena.

dot Shiv cannot do anything without merging into the incorporeal stage of Rambap. As there is a saying, it needs two to accomplish a task.

Omshanti and welcome to the forum.

I wish to know what you mean by merging of dot Shiv into the incorporeal stage of Father Ram.

I agree that neither Shiv nor Ram can do anything alone. That is the reason why Shiv enters into the corporeal medium. But even when both are in the same body, whom should we see? Or who is more important?

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

dot Shiv cannot do anything without merging into the incorporeal stage of Rambap. As there is a saying, it needs two to accomplish a task.

Dear PBKIndiana:

Welcome to the forum.

Why does Shiv have to merge in the incorporeal stage of Rambap to acccomplish? When Shiv entered Brahma and accomplished the task of delivering Murlis, Brahma was not incorporeal.

Sorry for my ignorance but the saying "it needs two to accomplish a task" is new to me.

Om Shanti -CAL

I fully agree with you that neither Shiva or Ram alone can accomplish anything. Only when they combine to become parampita paramatma, then Godfather Ramshivbaba will be revealed to the PBK world. This is what I have been stressing in all my posts.

Dear Brother,

You always stress that Ramshivbaba is the sermonizer of true Gita to which I disagree. I believe that the sermonizer of true Gita is Trimurthi Shiva as there are direct Murli quotes indicating who is the sermonizer of true Gita. I feel that Godfather Shiv is waiting for Rambap's 100% incorporeal stage so that new knowledge can be revealed. Also i feel that Shiv is higher than Ram because it is Ram who has to make efforts to become like Shiv and not vise-versa. As it is said Shiv-shankar and never shankar-shiv.

As per your views, you are having remembrance with the nirakari stage of Ramshivbaba but like most PBKs, i too am having remembrance with ShivBaba. I feel it is not logical and fruitful to have remembrance with someone who still hasn't emulate his stage to ShivBaba. As it is always said in the Murlis that "remember me in this body," or "remember the incorporeal in the corporeal."

I wish to know what you mean by merging of dot Shiv into the incorporeal stage of Father Ram.

Dear arjun Bhai,

I did not say that both of the souls of Father Shiva and Rambap will merge. What I have said is the merging of their incorporeal stages. As we all know that a soul cannot merge into another soul but their incorporeal stages can merge. Moreover because of the merging of their incorporeal stages, in bakti it is said that Shiva is Shankar. They have mixed up Shiva and Shankar in bakti just because now in Confluence Age, both of their (Shiv & Ram ) incorporeal stages are going to be equal and runs parallel to each other. Only then new knowledge can be delivered and everything will be revealed. Also it is said that "the dot cannot do anything without alaf."

I agree that neither Shiv nor Ram can do anything alone. That is the reason why Shiv enters into the corporeal medium. But even when both are in the same body, whom should we see? Or who is more important?

Definitely it is ShivBaba that we should have connections with. Also Shiv is higher than Ram but eventhough Shiv is higher than Ram, He (Shiv) is unable to accomplish anything without Rambap. When we say God speaks, then it is compulsory for the corporeal body in whom Shivbap is residing to emulate the same stage as Shiv, as it is said that the incorporeal stage will make others bow.

Why does Shiv have to merge in the incorporeal stage of Rambap to acccomplish?

Dear Brother,

Why is not there any happiness practically in the PBK kingdom? I agree that Shvbap is constantly incorporeal, viceless and egoless but why is the ever-pure Shiv unable to bring heaven to the PBK kingdom to-date? I feel that when the soul of Ram emulates Shivabap's 100% incorporeal stage, then both of their incorporeal stages merge to become shiv-shankar. Even when both of their stages merge, it is still Shiv who is higher than Ram.

When Shiv entered Brahma and accomplished the task of delivering Murlis, Brahma was not incorporeal.

Yes, Brahma was not incorporeal and that's why he left his body. Someone who has an incorporeal stage is immortal. Also an incorporeal stage can control the world to which Brahma couldn't even control the BK world. Eventhough Brahma Baba was in a male form, he has female sanskars and it is for him that it is said, "He is the true elder mother." Also no mother can emulate like Brahma Baba as there is no other soul except Rambap who can emulate ShivBaba's 100%incorporeal stage. Everyone loves to have a mother like brahmababa and when the world celebrates mothers day, it is actually dedicated to Brahma Baba who is the mother of all mothers.

Sorry for my ignorance but the saying "it needs two to accomplish a task" is new to me.

I am sorry too that I am unable to produce any Hindi phrases as I am a foreigner and I don't speak or understand Hindi.

Om Shanti.

Brother pbkindiana, which are the attributes, virtues & qualities of dot Shiv? Is it possible for Him to experience complete peace, bliss without entering into the 100% incorporeal stage of Rambap? Or is it possible for Him to be omniscient without entering into the 100% incorporeal stage of Rambap?

geometry and algorithms.

Could there be folks in this forum whose previous births were freemasons ?

Well Mozart, amongst others, was a mason and he did write the "Magic Flute"

Sorry for my ignorance but the saying "it needs two to accomplish a task" is new to me.

I am sorry too that I am unable to produce any Hindi phrases as I am a foreigner and I don't speak or understand Hindi.

Dear Brother,

Thanks for the reply to my post.

As regards the above mentioned phrase, there a saying in Hindi - ''ek say bhaley do'', i.e. two are better than one, i.e. two can accomplish a task better than a single person.
I don't know if this is what you wanted to write.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

As per your views, you are having remembrance with the nirakari stage of Ramshivbaba but like most PBKs, I too am having remembrance with ShivBaba. I feel it is not logical and fruitful to have remembrance with someone who still hasn't emulate his stage to ShivBaba. As it is always said in the Murlis that "remember me in this body," or "remember the incorporeal in the corporeal."

There is no doubt as to Supreme Soul Shiv is greater than Soul of Ram. But according to the Murlis both are our Father. So, which Father has to be remembered? Father of Souls(Supreme Soul Shiv) or Father of Human tree(Soul of Ram) ?

The basis for the above question is this :

1) Soul of Ram is present on this earth for entire 5000 years in various bodily forms and Supreme Soul Shiv is present in this drama only for 100 years of Sangamyug. It is said that whatever shooting of thougths occurs in this shooting(or rehearsal) period, the same role we will have to play in the broad drama of 5000 years. It is said that Brahma created this world through thoughts. So, if we remember Supreme Soul Shiv, then we will be 4900 years in Paramdham with Him because whatever thoughts we have now in the shooting period accordingly will be our fate in the broad drama. But if we remember Soul of Ram who will be playing His part for 5000 years, then according to our shooting of thougths we will spend the entire 5000 years in close relation to Him and that is our aim.So, should we remember soul of Ram?

2) But again, since soul of Ram himself becomes impure at the end of many births and has to make efforts to become pure, so He is not the Supreme. He is definitely not higher than Supreme Soul Shiv who is flawless. So, should we remember Supreme Soul Shiv?

Also, Murli says that both are our Father (I can quote the Murli point if required).
So, if we relate to Supreme Soul Shiv as our Father, Teacher and Satguru, then How are we related to Soul of Ram who is also our Father according to the Murlis ?

1) What is obtained from the Father of Souls(Supreme Soul Shiv) and
2) What is obtained from the Father of Human tree( Soul of Ram) ?

1) What is obtained from the Father of Souls(Supreme Soul Shiv) and
2) What is obtained from the Father of Human tree( Soul of Ram) ?

Dear suryavanshi Bhai.

I have repeatedly said that no one gets varsa from bindi Shiv (as no BK or PBK has received varsa from Shiv in last 70 years); souls will get varsa in one second, only when Ram reaches his nirakari stage, and only those souls who can recognise and acknowledge Ramshivbaba as their spiritual Father will get inheritance of vishwa ki badshahi.

shivsena.

Dear PBK Brothers.
Murli 23-4-03, Shiva says, "Baba is rahamdil; Maya is be-raham. Maya ne satyanash kar diya." (meaning that 'Baba is merciful and Maya is merciless. Maya destroys the truth.)
Who is this chaitanya (personified) Maya who is merciless and who destroys the truth????

shivsena.

Does Maya have one form or many forms? What is said in the Murli?

Murli 23-4-03, Shiva says ... Baba is merciful and Maya is merciless. Maya destroys the truth. Who is this Chaitanya (personified) Maya who is merciless and who destroys the truth????

Great! Possibly you are the first person in BKWSU who identified the personified form of Maya. According to Nijaanand Sampradaay, Maya is not direct creation of the Supreme Father (analogous to the concept of RamShivBaba); rather Maya is slumber or dream-like stage of Aadi Narayana, i.e, Maha-Vishnu. (analogous to the concept of Prajapita?).

Just as you (respected shivsena Bhai) think that Prajapita is not the Supreme Father, i.e, RamShivBaba. Njaanandis also claim that Aadi Narayana is not the Supreme Father. And just as you think that the Prajapita is the most powerful being (only) in this corporeal world, Rudra-Maala souls also come under his influence & as long as he does not awake from the slumber of ignorance, the upliftment of anybody is not possible. Similarly, Nijaanandis also believe that Aadi Narayana is omnipotent is this perishable universe, even Brahm-Shrishti souls (analogous to Rudra-Maala souls) are under his influence & when he awakes from his slumber or dream-like stage, Maya disappear & Maha-Pralaya (Final Distruction) takes place & all souls are liberated from the bondages of Maya.

Does Maya have one form or many forms?

One personified form of Maya assumes many many forms. Maya may assume xerox copy of God.

But is there only one corporeal pesonality that represents Maya and who is this. Why is it said that Maya can come as some or another person, some situation. People that we have been in contact with in the past come in our mind as Maya to distract us from our remembrance. Maya also become those who take us away from the Father. But, yes there is also a personality that represents Maya in seed form and also root form. It gets revealed from the acts.

We are also told that we should copy (xerox) Baba, to just put the steps in the footsteps, but are we being asked to become Maya?