Accurate Yaad (Accurate Remembrance)

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mbbhat

BK

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Re: Accurate Yaad (Accurate Remembrance)

Post02 Jul 2008

Dear Global soul,

1) There are many BK families who remain pure and in BKs knowledge. Both husband and wives come into knowledge.
2) In my house, my mother is a BK. Father is not a BK. But there is no problem for purity from my Father to my mother. We all live in one house.
3) There are 26 cases where some Brahmakumars are married into BrahmaKumaris during the beginning of Yagya. They are called as Baala- brahmaachaari couples.

Aren't these household path?

4) Initially, there was good purity in Yagya. Now BKs are not so stable but the quantity is increased. I belive that at the end, out of these, the required quality will come up. Let us see. Do you need more explanantion?

Dear ex-l,

BKs call outside people as Shudra but also call themselves as half-caste (imperfect Brahmin). Baba has also said in Murli that if a BK has lust, he is not eligible to be called as BK! What else do you need? Baba has also said for third class BKs, "in lokik world, a Father thinks about his useless, third class children, "It would have been better if such children would have not born. Similarly Baba also says the same thing to the ones who do disservice". BKs also agree that punishment to them is 100 fold!

Dear Souls,

When you take admission to a college, you see the syllabus first. If satisfied, next you see the fee structure, staff and building, laboratory facility, etc. You do not see who was the founder, when it is constructed, what is the total square feet of the campus, how many trees are there in the campus, how many becches and desks are there in the college, etc.

Similarly, in BK, we should see whether the syllabus is OK or not. Here there are no fees. The building is also not needed. You need just for two hours per day. No need of staff if you understand Hindi or get translated by your own person into English. (The speciality of RajaYoga is - the first lesson is the last lesson. There is no need of Murli if you have 100% love towards Baba. Just remember him).

You said, Murli are read falsely. I do not agree with this. They read Murli rightly. But do not follow to the extent required. That is all. But what about you? You left the college itself! They can at least dream of passing. What about you? You still are commenting about them outside. What a hopeless state is yours! Just see God has selected Indian women for his task. Foreign people are egoistic and just check for everything. It will be difficult for them to digest. They cannot adjust. That is why divorce cases are very high. They cannot tolerate.

Just see, Brahma Baba and the 70 Dadis experienced the Beggary part for four years. Do we have the capacity to remain hungry for at least one day happily? Yesterday, I had told (by mail) the administrators that I would not post for few days. But today, there was a question from administrator. So I replied here.

Mr global soul,

You should have asked PBKs whether they call their Virendra Dev Dixit as Shankar or not before reacting to me. Anyhow, it is OK for me. If I write full explanation, I get a suggestion from administrator to reduce the length. But there are very, very lengthy postings! When a right person speaks, his mouth is closed from all the sides. You are commenting against BKs. In your own website, there is a letter of 2 or three pages in Hindi, "aaj kaa shaitaan" written by a Sister which states that "Virendra Dev Dixit is Ravan. He does sin in the name of God". Have you put the same (equal to this) effort to check it? It is better to be dull head than egoistic.

[One thing: BKs and PBKs are the one who have highest ego. Why? Because both consider them to be knowledgeful. So this is the reason of disservice there. What you are doing? Repeating the same!] Please note that I have written all the above not for you. I was just murmuring.

Dear John Soul, Thank You.

There is a saying, "Four men bring can bring horse to a pond. But forty men cannot make it drink." So all will happen according to Drama. But my destiny is in my hand till I am alive. I cannot be sure of others. One thing John, this is a point which I keep myself detached from anybody. In life, everybody needs lust, food and sleep. For the one who has conquered lust, there is no need of help from others. In the sense, he will have no complaints from others.

Again, we cannot make a person to conquer lust. Each person has to put self effort to conquer it. A person having lust will definitely have one or more complaints. So how can I help somebody? So in this Drama, no one can really help another. One can just motivate; That's all! I think bettery to say. One can just try to motivate. No, sorry. It is better to say one can just try to, try to ... try to motivate. That's all!

So forget about others. Just do Self Transformation. That is why BKs' slogan is "Self-Transformation leads to World Transformation".
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ex-l

ex-BK

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Re: Accurate Yaad (Accurate Remembrance)

Post02 Jul 2008

There is really no big deal about the Beggary Period ... Why did they go and get jobs like the rest of us rather than poncing off donations even back then? Who made then have to live without working?

It only came about because the prediction of Destruction to happening around 1950 -51 did not happen. The prediciton they wrote out of their official history. Their sugar daddy Lekhraj Kirpalani ran out of money. It is a utterly false myth. No money ... go into business or get a job ... it is as simple as that.


1) Actually, it is very easy to make a horse drink. A single child could do it. All you have to do if give it a salt stick to lick. It will because that is the horse's nature. They very soon after it will start drink a lot. Another false myth ... and this has both a practical and metaphorical meaning. BapDada starved the horses and fed them salt and when they came out of the stable ... they were ready to eat the wallets of their followers.

2) Then BKs do not call themselves "Half-caste" Brahmins. That is also not true. "Half-caste Brahmin" has a specific meaning within BKWSU. There are many other similar errors in your posts. You seem to think that by flooding people's minds with so much stuff you can appear correct. I don't understand why someone that cannot even go to morning class is here pretending to be the embodiment of The Knowledge. If the BKs insist on "serving us" ... cant they send someone more pukka?

3) We know that the Yugya marriages were either fake ... for the sake of service or saving some Sister ... or latterly to cheat immigration it would appear. 26 out of 900,000 ... hardly a strong argument. The leadership are all virgin crones or left their husbands and their families. Fact. Show us one living as or in a family. Another falsehood ... "you do what we say but not what we do".

4) Lastly, if all it takes is one lesson and two hours a day, why the BKWSU needs to squander multi-millions of its donors' income every year? On this matter, I agree that by all accounts Lekhraj Kirpalani envisaged a "household path" ... family homes being the centers and not buying big property. I think it is far more likely, as the PBKs interpret, that the bodily gurus, sanyasis and palaces that Baba talks about are the BKWSU leadership.
mbbhat wrote:Visit their website and you can see. Now my question is, is not a website advertisement?

I answered this and we have discussed it before on the forum. What we have been told is that the PBK websites you see are are not 'official' websites, just those started up by followers.

I had a look at two.

1) The PBKs ones provide information, their philosophy/dogma including Murlis etc. The BKWSU put up lots of happy smiling faces, online shops, misleading seminar advertisements and exaggerations of their importance relating to Kaliyugi organizations like the United Nations.

2) So, in balance, I would say no. The one is for education, to serve the goods themselves. The other is for advertising products and services, "the goods" are hidden form the public's eye. The BKs want to hook the customers with a 'soft sell' first, get them commitment before delivering the 'contract'. The 'BK contract' involves more than just monetary fees ... it includes Wills, properties, wages, spare time ... etc. "Everything", as Dadi Janki said.

I know this to be true.

global

ex-BK

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Re: Accurate Yaad (Accurate Remembrance)

Post02 Jul 2008

mbhat,

Which website? I see no official website.

I have seen some PBK posts here and have also seen the words Sister used.
BKs consider all males because they say to forget body and consider soul only.

Are you kidding me by this? Why are the Seniors seen as Sisters?

If you do not believe in advertising than why on the main site do you mention your UN relationship?
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john

reforming BK

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Re: Accurate Yaad (Accurate Remembrance)

Post03 Jul 2008

mbbhat wrote:You said, Murli are read falsely. I do not agree with this. They read Murli rightly.

Which Murlis? The original ones or the re- written/amended ones?
Foreign people are egoistic and just check for everything. It will be difficult for them to digest. They cannot adjust. That is why divorce cases are very high. They cannot tolerate.

That's a very sweeping statement :shock:.

global

ex-BK

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Re: Accurate Yaad (Accurate Remembrance)

Post03 Jul 2008

mhbhat,

Your beginning to sound like a parrot. I asked you if you are married, are you?

Listen, foreigners don't worship rats or statutes of elephants with multiple arms (at least the ones born here don't). So please don't go there with this foreigner are ignorant.

Divorce cases are high because one tries to in pose their beliefs on the other party in a very selfish way.

To me most BKs are selfish will leave family, friends loved ones for what?

pbkindiana

PBK

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Re: Accurate Yaad (Accurate Remembrance)

Post03 Jul 2008

mbbhat wrote:Foreign people are egoistic and just check for everything. It will be difficult for them to digest. They cannot adjust. That is why divorce cases are very high. They cannot tolerate.

Dear mbbhat,

Only in India the brides are splashed with kerosene or gasoline and burned to death just for not paying dowry. This atrocity is taking place till today. The cruel act of killing innocent wives by setting fire on them is most sinful than divorcing.

Om Shanti -- indie.

bluesky

questioning BK

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Re: Accurate Yaad (Accurate Remembrance)

Post03 Jul 2008

Dear Mbbhat Bhai,

I would like to say few things. I understand what your arguments are, and especially commend you for your firm faith in BK. But you have to understand there are varieties of people here. Firstly, there are many ex-BKs and questioning BKs in this forum. Many of us have gone through unpleasant experiences in BKs and we are discussing those experiences here so that others can be cautious about what is happening and also how to help ex-bks move on. We are discussing about people, leadership, meditation, teachers, BK policy in ways that affected (or is affecting) people (especially in an unpleasant way).

Most of us are familiar with BK knowledge to the core and what you’re saying is not only understandable but also a repetition of what we heard. My hunch is that you could contribute a lot more in The Knowledge section of the BK forum, where people who are interested in knowledge could benefit your input and churning.

About Eastern and Western culture, it is an ongoing debate. No matter what we are, we should accept each others culture. I know a lot of Western people admire Eastern culture and hold down to it dearly, and so do the Eastern people. You have to understand that Western culture is built on reason and freedom, whereas the Eastern is built on faith (mainly), and reason as well. In the Eastern culture, hierarchy is prominent, but freedom is more sought in the Western culture.

Both hierarchy and freedom have caused progress and downfall. I think we have to be wise to understand this and discuss in a more acceptable ways considering these cultures. I know you could accept hierarchy (like Dadis, Seniors etc) easily because you come from the Eastern culture but not everyone will. We cannot blame anyone and we cannot change anyone. We have to flow with it and learn to live together, balancing both aspect of it. I think knowledge teaches us to be wise, is it not? Those are my thoughts. Good luck to you in your BK life, Mbbhat Bhai.

Bluesky

global

ex-BK

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Re: Accurate Yaad (Accurate Remembrance)

Post03 Jul 2008

pbkindiana,

Thank you for sharing this with me. I was not aware of such brutality.

The Western woman would not allow such a thing. I do respect that the BKs try to empower woman but "East is East and West is West".

I have seen many European men, especially the older ones, still have the mentality of I am the boss and the woman is the slave. Pretty sad indeed. Then again I have also seen woman here act in ways that are not lady like and in many ways are more aggressive sexually than men.

I am still trying to figure out how a BK is able to identify their point of light being different from Shiva's point of light, or anyone else's. How do they know they are remembering the right point of light?
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arjun

PBK

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Re: Accurate Yaad (Accurate Remembrance)

Post03 Jul 2008

mbbhat wrote:Due to the impurity present in this physical body, Baba says do not remember even Brahma Baba, do not keep his photos, etc. But children cannot become soul conscious immediately. So their mind goes on thinking many people. That is why Baba sometimes says remember Brahma Baba also. Remembering Brahma’s body is better than remembering other people of Kaliyuga. Remembering ShivaBaba in Brahma is completely safe. But you will not get full power. For full power, you have to think just pure things, that too point form is the superb.

But this is what Baba is telling in a Murli point posted in the BK Section recently:
220.
“The Father says you should not remember any subtle or corporeal or incorporeal picture. You are given a target; people remember (God) by seeing pictures. Baba says – stop seeing pictures. This is a path of worship....He says – Children, do not look at any picture. Remember Me alone. Connect the intellect above. We have to remember the one where we have to go. One Father, that is all, none else. He alone is the true paatshaah, the one who narrates the truth. So, you should not remember any picture. You should not even remember this picture of Shiv because Shiv is not like this. Just as we are souls, He is the Supreme Soul. Just as a soul lives in the middle of the forehead, Baba also says – I occupy a little space adjacent to the soul and sit. I sit as a charioteer and give knowledge to this one. The soul of this one did not have knowledge; he was sinful. Just as his soul, the charioteer, speaks through the body, similarly I speak through these organs. Otherwise, how would I explain?” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 20.02.08, pg.3 published by BKs in Hindi, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba; translated by a PBK; the words within brackets in the English version have been added by the translator to clarify the meaning)

"Always think that it is ShivBaba who is speaking. Do not keep even his photo. This Chariot has been taken on loan. He is also an effort-maker. He also says, 'I am obtaining the inheritance from Baba.’ " (Revised Sakar Murli dated 21.07.05, page 3 published by BKs,in Hindi, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba; translated by a PBK)

The above extract clearly mentions what is the wrong way and what is the correct way to remember ShivBaba. It says remembering ShivBaba as pictures (like Brahma Baba, Dadis, etc.) or as a point (a point of light marked on a casket of red light) is wrong, while remembering incorporeal Shiv through the corporeal body is correct.
Regards,
OGS,
Arjun
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arjun

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Re: Accurate Yaad (Accurate Remembrance)

Post03 Jul 2008

mbbhat wrote:1) Brahma Baba becomes first prince in Satyug (Golden Age) and rules the whole world. He will be in royal family till the end of Tretayug (Silver Age). Then in Dwaparyug, it is Brahma Baba who becomes Vikramaditya and constructs the gloriest temple SOMANATH, fully made from Gold and Diamonds. So he is King even in Copper Age. We do not know the rest of his births.

Dear Brother,
Is there any proof in the Murlis to say that Brahma Baba's soul will be in the royal family till the end of the Silver Age?
Is there any historical proof that the temple of Somnath was fully made of gold and diamonds?

2) The most important thing is, after Copper Age Brahma Baba gets the name of Gita Sermonizer and till the end of Kaliyug (Iron Age), people consider Sri Krishna himself as the sermonizer of the world’s highest scripture. What a glory of Brahma Baba!

ShivBaba condemns the Bhaktimarg tradition of Krishna (alias Brahma Baba) being considered as the Gita Sermonizer and you are glorifying Brahma Baba for this biggest sin (according to Murlis). Is it good if a son takes credit for his Father's hard work?
3) Even in Sangamyug, ShivaBaba entered his body and narrated Godly versions. All BKs love Brahma Baba also very well. They salute him and consider next to God. Everywhere in BK centres you can see Brahma Baba’s photos. Ordinary people still think that it is Brahma Baba who has established BrahmaKumaris institution.

In every Murli Baba refrains us from keeping Brahma Baba's photo and you feel proud of it?
You are correct in your analysis that ordinary people still think it is BB and not ShivBaba who established BKWSU. This is the reason why Krishna (alias soul of Brahma Baba) has been considered to be God of Gita instead of ShivBaba.
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john

reforming BK

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Re: Accurate Yaad (Accurate Remembrance)

Post03 Jul 2008

arjun wrote:The above extract clearly mentions what is the wrong way and what is the correct way to remember ShivBaba. It says remembering ShivBaba as pictures (like Brahma Baba, Dadis, etc.) or as a point (a point of light marked on a casket of red light) is wrong, while remembering incorporeal Shiv through the corporeal body is correct.

Arjun,

Whilst explaining how not to remember the above passage does not give an explanation of remembering Shiva Baba in the corporeal.

What it does say is
Connect the intellect above. We have to remember the one where we have to go
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ex-l

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Re: Accurate Yaad (Accurate Remembrance)

Post03 Jul 2008

mbbhat wrote:1) Brahma Baba becomes first prince in Satyug (Golden Age) and rules the whole world. He will be in royal family till the end of Tretayug (Silver Age). Then in Dwaparyug, it is Brahma Baba who becomes Vikramaditya and constructs the gloriest temple SOMANATH, fully made from Gold and Diamonds. So he is King even in Copper Age.
arjun wrote:Is there any proof in the Murlis to say that Brahma Baba's soul will be in the royal family till the end of the Silver Age ... Is it good if a son takes credit for his Father's hard work?

Please do not let me interrupt this line of question, it is very important to discover from where the BKWSU has created its mythology as it sheds credibility on the rest of the teachings.

But please also allow me to remind mbbhat, that for the first 20 years Lekhraj Kirpalani and the early Brahma Kumaris did think and call himself Prajapati God Brahma, the Gita Inventor ... and there was no mention of Shiva until after 1950 according to the publish documents we have here.

Your response please.
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paulkershaw

ex-BK

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Re: Accurate Yaad (Accurate Remembrance)

Post03 Jul 2008

To add to this: Is it not possible that one is being taught to remember 'one-self" and not the No. 1 "head of the family"?
The original wording and teachings of Dada (in whateverr form he presented himself as we went along) could have been misconstrued and mis-read until it became the 'real' thing to follow in his 'foot-steps'.

Many teachings and spiritual teachers working on the planet will tell you that you're the first, and that you're No.1 in the line - up of things to come, if you would just 'make effort' to understand the teachings a bit better you'll be it. I've come across this 4-5 times in the previous month or two from different sources. By responding as we do (or 'did' for most hereon this forum), it shows certain internal perspectives at play on an individual and on a collective consciousness.

Dada Lekraj/Brahma Baba was not the first to speak of this, nor shall he be the last (sister in charge).
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arjun

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Re: Accurate Yaad (Accurate Remembrance)

Post04 Jul 2008

john wrote:Whilst explaining how not to remember the above passage does not give an explanation of remembering Shiva Baba in the corporeal.

Dear Brother,
Omshanti. It is nice to see you participating in the discussions after a long time. Did you take abk with you on vacations and leave him there? :D We missed you and continue to miss abk.

As regards your above statement, I expected someone to raise this issue. Yes, it is not directly said in the Murli point under reference that the incorporeal should be remembered through the corporeal, but it has been clearly said that one should not remember the 'incorporeal' picture as well. So, if you say that connecting above means remembering the incorporeal, then that has also been ruled out by Baba. Whereas He has repeatedly said that He is sitting beside Brahma's soul and teaching. So, He is indirectly hinting to the children to remember him through the corporeal medium. Here is another Murli quote that underlines the importance of remembering the Supreme Soul through the corporeal medium:
“Baba speaks to the souls. Instead of aatma (soul) it will be called a jeevatma (a living soul, i.e. soul+body) because when a soul is single (i.e. without body) it cannot speak. Without a body, a soul does not speak to (another) soul. Will the Supreme Soul talk to a soul in the Supreme Abode? Although it is said that Christ was sent (to Earth) by the Supreme Soul, but there the Supreme Soul does not speak. There is not even gesture there. According to the drama a soul comes down on its own to play its part. The part (i.e. role) is recorded in the soul. So the soul comes down and plays its part by assuming a body.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 08.10.07, pg 1&2 published by BKs)

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

global

ex-BK

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Re: Accurate Yaad (Accurate Remembrance)

Post05 Jul 2008

Can a PBK and a current BK.Share exactly how they do Yaad?

What do they remember exactly? (I think this is very important to understand this)

I am trying to understand if both the PBK and BK are doing correct Yaad.

Please be as descriptive as possible.

for. example do you remember someones body (which one) or no body and do you remember anything else?

Thanks,
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