ShivBaba and Prajapita

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cal

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Re: ShivBaba and Prajapita

Post28 Mar 2008

Dear Brother shivsena:

I have been reading all your quotes and I have to admit one thing - you have been completely logical and been completely consistent in your views. I have not found a single fallacy in your argument so far, as a result of which I never jumped in your responses on this forum. I am not here to say that you are right or wrong (like you have said only time will tell that), but you have very rightly pointed out the various contradictions.
shivsena wrote:i have wasted precious time (neglecting my family and profession)

After reading this, I could not resist writing and I salute you for this bold acceptance.

Om Shanti = cal

shivsena

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Re: ShivBaba and Prajapita

Post28 Mar 2008

Dear suryavanshi Bhai.

What you have written is very true. Murlis will be interpreted differently by each soul (including Krishna) during the shooting period and the final interpretation by Ramshivbaba in 100% nirakari stage will be the absolute truth (sacchi Gita). This is what i want to bring to the notice of my PBK Brothers who feel that Advanced Knowledge is the final truth; it is an illusion created by mayavi Krishna to fool the PBKs (to make souls numberwise). Just as the worldly souls say that this whole world is nothing but Maya and only those who overcome Maya can reach God, similarly i too believe that the whole basic and advance world is living in an mayavi illusion (subtle shooting done by basic and advance) that Godly knowledge they possess is complete and only those souls (108) who are able to break away from this mayavi illusion will be able to listen to sacchi Gita, when the practical form of God Ramshivbaba is revealed through' the present Chariot.

I have never said that whatever i am saying is the final truth. I have always maintained that the final and absolute truth is yet to come in the near future. You can accept or reject or critisize my manthan as per your intellect, but ignore it at your own risk.

shivsena.

jann

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Re: ShivBaba and Prajapita

Post28 Mar 2008

shivsena wrote:I have always maintained that the final and absolute truth is yet to come in the near future. You can accept or reject or critisize my manthan as per your intellect, but ignore it at your own risk.

You sound like a doomsday cult leader!
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arjun

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Re: ShivBaba and Prajapita

Post29 Mar 2008

shivsena wrote:Murli says ''Bhakti marg is waste of time, waste of money, waste of energy"; Shiva is hinting about this behad ki Bhakti which the PBKs are doing since the shooting period of Copper and iron age (from 1988-89) ; i have wasted precious time(neglecting my family and profession) and i wish that my Brother PBKs be forewarned about this behad ka Bhakti-marg, which is nothing but durgati-marg and the earlier this fact is known to PBKs, the better off they will be in future.

Dear Brother,
Omshanti. I wish to know as to whom do you hold responsible for neglecting your family and profession? I suppose you will say Mayavi Krishna's soul through the body of Baba Virendra Dev Dixit, but even the Murlis spoken by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba did not advice the Brahmin children to neglect their families/profession. Given below is a Murli quote taken from the BK section:

117. “One also has to maintain relationship with the one with whom one develops relationship. Therefore the Father says – one should maintain relationships with the lokik family also till the end ... So, the Mother and the Father explain to the children – one has to maintain relationship with the lokik relatives also. If not today, tomorrow it would fit into their intellect also. They will see that this is correct." (Revised Sakar Murli dated 12.12.07, pg 1 published by BKs in Hindi, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba; translated by a PBK; the words within brackets in the English version have been added by the translator to clarify the meaning)

You can neglect this question if you feel I am interfering in your personal life, but your statement leaves the readers in doubt whether you are holding ShivBaba responsible for the situation in your life.
Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

shivsena

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Re: ShivBaba and Prajapita

Post29 Mar 2008

arjun wrote: You can neglect this question if you feel I am interfering in your personal life, but your statement leaves the readers in doubt whether you are holding ShivBaba responsible for the situation in your life.

Dear arjun Bhai.
I am not blaming anybody (neither Shiv nor Krishna) for what has happened in my life. I take full responsibility on myself alone for the present situation in my life. In Murlis it is said that "bhakti-marg mein atma swayam hi apna shatru hai aur Gyan marg mein atma swayam hi apna mitra hai"(meaning that "the soul is its own enemy in bhakti-marg and when the real Gyan marg starts in future, the soul will become its own best friend''). By sharing my life situation, i just want to make the PBKs aware that they do not make the same mistakes which i have made.

I was practising Bhakti for 9 years as a BK thinking it was Gyan marg, and in Advanced Knowledge i was practising Bhakti marg thinking that God is with me, but now i know that bindishivbaba is not God of Gita in Lekhraj Kirpalani, nor Bindishivbaba is God of Gita in Virendra Dev Dixit, but it is Ramshivbaba in 100% nirakari stage (Ram=Shiv) who will be Gita sermoniser and Bap-teacher-satguru in practical in future.

This is what i want to convey.
shivsena.

shivsena

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Re: ShivBaba and Prajapita

Post29 Mar 2008

cal wrote:After reading this, I could not resist writing and I salute you for this bold acceptance

Dear cal Bhai.

Many thanks for your appreciation of my thoughts. I am glad that someone could make some sense of my views on the forum; my aim on the forum is to create an awareness among the PBKs that the whole Advanced Knowledge is the subtle shooting of bhakti-marg (jhooti Gita) and the true Gita is still to come in the near future; just go through the very important Murli point below and it will become more clear about what i am trying to say.

Murli 31-3-85, Shiva says, " Sacchi Gita toh saccha bap hi aakar sunate hain - seedha batao, yeh krishnabhagwanuvach ki jhooti Gita padte padte bharatwasi ne durgati ko payaa hai; shivbhagwanuvach ki sacchi Gita se sadgati ko paate hain. Tum likh sakte ho ki jhooti Gita se Bharat hell banta hai aur sacchi Gita se Bharat heaven banta hai. Sacchi Gita aur jhooti Gita mein raat-din ka farak hai".
In English: " The true Father only comes and speaks the true Gita"(who is this true Father whom Shiva is speaking about; it is certainly the Father Ram in 100% nirakari stage, who will come and speak the true Gita in future.)
"tell them directly, that this Krishna's false Gita has led to the downfall (durgati) of bharatwasis (PBKs) and only Shiva's Gita (ie Ramshivbaba and not bindi Shiv) is going to give them sadgati (salvation)".
"You can write that Bharat (Krishna) has become hell by false Gita and Bharat(Krishna) will become heaven by true Gita (in future)".
''There is a day-night difference between true Gita and false Gita'' ( meaning that false Gita makes night of Brahma and true Gita will make day of Brahma). (explanation in brackets are my interpretation)

From the above Murli, it is very evident that Shiva is talking about the Krishna ki jhooti Gita of behad ka drama of Sangamyug and not about the Gita of broad drama. He has forseen the whole behad ka drama which is going to happen in future and has described it in Murlis, but the BKs and PBKs read and apply everything to the broad drama and hence not able to see the truth in Shiva's Murlis. Also it has been said in Vanis that " Exam paper toh pahele se hi out kar diya hai; ab dekhenge ki kitne pass hote hai aur kitne fail hote hai". (The exam paper, i.e. Murlis have been out from 1965 to 1969 in which Shiva has spoken in subtle form, about what is going to happen in future in the behad ka drama, but those BKs and PBKs who do not have the eye to see things in the proper perspective, will definitely miss the bus of 108).

I have read the above Murli point several times and i am 100% convinced that Shiva is talking about the Advanced Knowledge as jhooti Krishna ki Gita; i have discussed this point with many PBKs and they are do not have any answer.

What is the opinion of the PBKs on this forum? i would very much like to know.

shivsena.
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andrey

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Re: ShivBaba and Prajapita

Post29 Mar 2008

Dear Brother shivsena,

In the 1st quote it is said that Father "comes". Can this term be used for the Rams soul who is always here?

And in the third quote you say Krishna is Bharat. Do you say that Krishna himself is speaking the false Gita to cause his own degradation?
ex-l wrote:I follow this debate because at its heart, there is the exact same quandary the BKWSU suffers from. The faith that all of Lekhraj Kirpalani's written down words were at all times Shrimat/God inspired/God speaking through him ... AND applicable to all times after. ... but when are we ever going to grow out of the child-like - and very bhaktish - addiction to "the Word of God".

Christians, Muslims and other religious people also take for granted their scriptures.
What would happen if Veerendra Dev Dixit died?

You may not be the only one to wish him dead. When one is unable to decide whether this is right or that is right, it is easier if one of the sides just disappears.
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ex-l

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Re: ShivBaba and Prajapita

Post29 Mar 2008

andrey wrote:You may not be the only one to wish him dead. When one is unable to decide whether this is right or that is right, it is easier if one of the sides just disappears.

Andrey, I never said that. I have never thought that. He is an older man under a lot of stress ... it is inevitable one day. I just stated the obvious and posed the question. The BKs thought that their Mama would be with them to the end, Lekhraj Kirpalani would be, Dadi this, that and the other would be etc ... "In this world, nothing is certain but death and taxes" (Benjamin Franklin).

shivsena

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Re: ShivBaba and Prajapita

Post30 Mar 2008

suryavanshi wrote:Ambiguity is created but there is no ambiguity.

Dear suryavanshi Bhai.
Yes--you are right by saying that ambiguity is created, but who created that ambiguity in the first place; Did Shiva create an ambiguity by first giving basic knowledge to BKs and then a different interpretation of the same knowledge, thereby creating a rift between the BKs and PBKs. Is this the work of Shiva to divide the Godly family in two groups and create friction and hostility between them? Or is this the work of mayavi Krishna (as per drama) to seperate out the ordinary praja, royal praja and the kings (108) into 3 different groups. In Murli 26-1-1967, Shiva clearly says that "Maya aisi hai jo tum bachon ko aapas mein ladva deti hai. jo apas mein ladte hai Baba samajte hain ki woh nidhanke hain", (meaning that ''Maya is such that it creates a fight between the children and those who fight, Baba thinks that they have no Father to guide them"). So there is no doubt whatsoever, that it is mayavi Krishna who has been given the part to cause friction between the BKs and PBKs and to further split the PBKs into various 9 groups by inventing Advanced Knowledge and creating ambiguity.

Also it has been said in Murlis that "Krishna aur christ ki raashi milayee jaati hai" (meaning there is similarity between the sanskars of Christ and Krishna). Christians, who are followers of Christ, have this sanskars of ''dividing and ruling''; and the same sanskars of "Divide and rule" are there in mayavi Krishna, who at present is dividing the BKs and PBKs and enjoying the show at the same time. (This cannot be the work of bholanath ShivBaba). Just think about it.
shivsena

shivsena

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Re: ShivBaba and Prajapita

Post01 Apr 2008

jannisder wrote: You sound like a doomsday cult leader!

Dear jannisder Bhai.

I am just a simple seeker of truth who is sincerely trying to understand the Murlis of Shiva, and sharing my views on this forum.
shivsena
.

suryavanshi

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Re: ShivBaba and Prajapita

Post05 Apr 2008

"Tum aatein hi hon ShivBaba ke paas. Woh toh Niraakar hain aur creator hain. Prajapita ko bhi Creator kahaa jaataa hain." mu 27/7/1965

Nirakar Shiv is called creator only when Nirakar Shiv becomes ShivBaba. So, ShivBaba is called Creator as per Murli point above. But Prajapita is also called Creator because Nirakar Shiv becomes ShivBaba or creator through Prajapita.So, Prajapita is creator and not creation whereas soul of Brahma/Dada Lekhraj/soul of Krishna is the creation(child) and not the creator as per the Murlis.

shivsena

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Re: ShivBaba and Prajapita

Post05 Apr 2008

suryavanshi wrote:"Tum aatein hi hon ShivBaba ke paas. Woh toh Niraakar hain aur creator hain. Prajapita ko bhi Creator kahaa jaataa hain." mu 27/7/1965

Dear suryavanshi Bhai.

The above Murli can also be interpretated as follows:
Tum aate ho (Ram)ShivBaba ke pass(beacuse it is said in Murlis that ''ShivBaba ko Ram kahete hai'').
''Woh toh nirakar hai aur creator hai'' (meaning that Ramshivbaba is nirakari stage wala bap and bap is main actor, director, creator) ; nirakarbindi cannot be main actor, director and creator.
"prajapita ko bhi creator kahaa jaata hai"; since Ramshivbaba and prajapita(Krishna) are revealed through the same body, both become creator (Ramshivbaba becomes actual creator and prajapita gets the title of creator (kahaa jaata hai par vastav mein hain nahin)

I have said previously many times that the Murlis of Shiva can be and will be interpreted differently by different group of souls; the same point will be interpreted differently by BKs; you have given me your interpretation and i have given you my view.
Which view is correct that only time will decide.
shivsena.
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andrey

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Re: ShivBaba and Prajapita

Post05 Apr 2008

If Krishna is Prajapita and also Maya then we are children of Maya, then will we ever be able to be free from Maya, if our Father is Maya himself we will be also Maya itself. Either the soul of Krishna is not Maya or is not Prajapit or it is not the two.

Everyone can interpret the Murlis differently but only the Father will clarify them correctly, everyone else will interpret them wrongly according to their capacity . If you are not claiming to be the Father then on which basis do you expect that we listen and accept your interpretation which according to you also will have to be wrong.

suryavanshi

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Re: ShivBaba and Prajapita

Post05 Apr 2008

since Ramshivbaba and Prajapita (Krishna) are revealed through the same body, both become creator

Dear Brother,

No where in the Murli, it is said that Krishna is the creator. Also, no where it is said that Krishna is the Father(Prajapita).
In fact, the Murli says that " Krishna kisi kaa baap ho nahi saktaa" mu 17/11/2000. To call Krishna as Father is clearly man mat since it is against the Murli.
Also, it is said that " Rachnaa(Creation) kaa Gyan toh Rachtaa(Creator) mein hi hogaa na. Shri Krishna ko Rachnaa(Creation) kahaa jaataa hain. mu 27/4/2001.

How can one call Krishna as Creator when Murli itself says that Krishna is the Creation and not the Creator? This is again manmat. Also, it is said in the Murli that " Rachyita aur Rachna ke baare mein jo manushya kahenge wah jooth" mu 5/9/1986.

This above point again shows that it is futile to even attempt to give one's own explanation about creator and creation because human beings cannot explain creator and creation.So, whatever is explained by ShivBaba through Virendra Dev Dixit is the Truth (Shrimat) about Creator and Creation and rest is manmat(untruth).

You have called Krishna as Prajapita in your quote above. Below is the Murli point, which clearly says the reverse without any need of anyone's interpretation.

"Krishna ko kabhi Prajapita nahi kahaa jaataa" mu dated. 4/3/1988

shivsena

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Re: ShivBaba and Prajapita

Post06 Apr 2008

suryavanshi wrote: You have called Krishna as Prajapita in your quote above. Below is the Murli point, which clearly says the reverse without any need of anyone's interpretation.
"Krishna ko kabhi Prajapita nahi kahaa jaataa" mu dated. 4/3/1988

Dear suryavanshi Bhai.

You have quoted a very good Murli point "about Krishna not being prajapita"; i was hoping that someone would raise that point and i am glad you raised it. But before we can understand this Murli point, i wish to know one thing from you, because the answer to your query lies in the answer to this query. Do vijaymala souls, who come in the end, take Advance Course and accept Ram as prajapita Brahma and become PBKs in the end? If you can answer this query then i will answer your query.

This will also open a new discussion about various Murli points like who are ''Brahmin so farishta so devta''; who are ''manushya se devta in one second". What is the difference between farishta and devta? What is the difference between Brahmins and devtas? And many more interesting points.
Awaiting your reply.
shivsena.
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