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Sitting with, living with, knowing ShivBaba

PostPosted: 15 Aug 2006
by button slammer
surya2037 wrote:ShivBaba...Supreme Soul plus body...explained on: VCD* - Portugal, Canada, London, Malasia

'Sitting in the body' - Now what does that mean exactly?

Supreme Soul has no awareness of the body. So how can a being who is ignorant of eyes, ears etc operate through a body? What is the medium for communication?

I think the corporeal body the Supreme Soul 'sits' in refers to the intellect. In this case an intellect that has become degraded/influenced by corporeal beings, and under the impression of duality. 'The incorporeal in the corporeal'. The force of undiluted spiritual power creates an upliftment within the corporeal awareness of the intellect of the Father of Humanity/Prajapita. So the corporeal 'physical' body is initially required as a means of focusing the intellect of new students to a particular location. ie Kampil. An example is a temple which is a location, within the location is a 'voice' that disseminates infomation. It is not the temple that is worshipped but the ideas/principles that have to be understood and assimilated. A physical body/matter cannot be understood, only the actions of the mind/intellect that propel it.

So we understand/catch the unlimited dynamic subtle actions/meanings of the Supreme Soul operating through the only Intellect on the planet, capable of apprehending the meaning of pure spiritual intelligence, and surrendering to that instruction. We observe and listen to the 'Incorporeal in the corporeal' and make note of the drama that unfolds (study) it is as if an original blue print, (of creation) is made so we can adapt ourselves also, as required, to the tranformative process.

I understand that knowledge refers to the transformation of the intellect. So many times the intellect is refered to as 'stomach of the intellect' 'hand of the intellect', 'third eye of the intellect' and so on. It is as though the intellect represents an entire map of conciousness. All of history can be assigned to the rise and fall of intellect. Intellect=subtle blue print of conciousness/creation.

So when I hear the phrase 'Incorporeal in the corporeal' It is not simply the physical presence that is appreciated I 'see' the entire drama unfolding I 'see' the entire cosmos from inert seeds in my hand, to galaxies, drifting and weaving through the vast interstellar reaches of outer space. 'Incorporeal in the corporeal'cannot be explained. It is something to be understood.

Just thinking out aloud, don't mind me :idea:

'Sitting in the body'

PostPosted: 15 Aug 2006
by surya
Button Slammer wrote:'Sitting in the body', now what does that mean exactly?

I think the corporeal body the Supreme Soul 'sits' in refers to the intellect

Dear Divine Brother,

Thanks for your views.

Once I read in one Murli the meaning of “sitting in the body” and the explanation was: Shiva comes and sits next to this one...meaning two souls sitting next to each other in the same body. Supreme Souls takes this body on loan enters and sits next to this one.

Hope you can see the meaning of this explanation, to me does make sense the fact of entering and sitting next to each other.

kind regards


PostPosted: 15 Aug 2006
by john
Some nice ideas from Button Slammer.

surya 2037: Thanks for all the references and points greatly appreciated!

PostPosted: 16 Aug 2006
by andrey
Dear Brother,
In the older days, when the children had been coming to Brahma Baba the question before them has been asked “Children, whose lap have you come to?” Those who said ShivBaba and who had such understanding - passed. In the Murlis it is said that if one understands he has come in the lap of Brahma /the body Shiv enters/ becomes impure. So was Brahma Baba ShivBaba?

ShivBaba is one. The whole matter, it is said in the Murlis, is over this one matter that has to be proved – who is the God of the Gita. It should be proved that Krishna is not the God of the Gita. How? In the Murlis it is spoken about temporary and permanent Chariot. One cannot possibly have conection with Shiv without a body. Shiva without a body is nothing. He is not even God. He becomes God only when he comes in a corporeal form. So was Dada Lekraj the form of God – ShivBaba?

One cannot see with the eyes and cannot know looking the body. One cannot know when He /Shiv/ comes, when He goes, when He speaks, when someone else speaks. It is said we should consider it is only ShivBaba speaking. So the form of ShivBaba is permanent. Whether Shivbap is inside or not. We can know Shiv only through The Knowledge He gives. We cannot know the stage inside. Yes, based on the declaration /based on knowledge/ about 76 we can know who reached - which stage.

The Knowledge that is given is higher, because the stage is higher – incorporeal – not corporeal through Brahma Baba. The Knowledge itself is only a recognition of the Father. The Father introduces Himself. And it cannot be that the Father leaves in between, because he has promised to live together, to go together. Even if we can keep our promises cannot he does too. It it just that through Brahma Baba this is not the part of the Father. Yes in the beginning it is the part of the Father of sowing seeds, but it is because it is the same soul. Here even the Mother /Brahma Baba/ cannot show the Father because he/she does not know. What is spoken through him he did not know. And what has been the practice of rememberence of Brahma Baba. He did not remember Shiv in any body.

Yes, he had the firm faith I am Krisha, based on the divine visions, but also based on The Knowledge someone in corporeal gave him through the mouth that you are Krishna. no one can open his /Prajapita's/ part, but he opens the parts to others. Like when the children are small, some things of their life they don't remember fully, but because their parents at that time are mature and in full conciousness they can later ttell them /the children/

The role of Prajapita is also based on knowledge so as that he can say I am Prajapita. We should also make the same effor of Who am I, is not it?
Otherwise knowledge itself is of no use, it will be even forgotten. It is like we study but don’t practice. Salvation cannot be received by scripture – Murli. ShivBaba himself gives salvation.

Of coarse the soul of Ram falls, the soul of Krishna falls, but which is this one form of God – ShivBaba in corporeal form. There cannot be two – tree ShivBabas. So, through the body of which one soul is this role played? It is through the body of the soul of Ram. That’s why it is said there is fight between the devotees of Ram and Krishna.

It will make a difference as to what exactly “kaayam” means. I know “sadaa” means forever, always. If it means uniformity in stage than it cannot be about Brahma Baba, because he left the body. If it means all the time that cannot be for Shiv, because He comes only at the Confluence Age.

And because the Chariot that plays in the 5000 years drama, that Chariot of God that is fixed, there is guarantee for him, that’s why we stick to him in the drama, because finally Shiv will come there, and we’ll be close. It is said Shiv will go away, Ram and Krishna will stay, and we’ll live together. So should we run after Shiv when He leaves, leaving our bodies, or should we stay with the corporeal medium here on Earth?

PostPosted: 16 Aug 2006
by john
Dear Brother

I am finding it very hard to extract any relevance in your post to the thread?
If it is in answer to my queries could you please condence and keep it to relevant points.
If it is just a general post about Gyan not connected to the plot of the thread, so be it, but could you please confirm either way.

PostPosted: 16 Aug 2006
by andrey
Dear Brother,
Yes, it is regarding the points rised. The essence is: can we discuss the personality of ShivBaba without knowing who He is. No, we cannot. Knowing Him, means where, through which body, what part does He play. Then we may discuss if He is permanent or temporary etc.

PostPosted: 16 Aug 2006
by john
can we discuss the personality of ShivBaba without knowing who He is.

Murlis are here to provide us with this information, points raised in the above thread are to do with Murli points.

If you know of any other way to understand ShivaBaba please tell.

PostPosted: 16 Aug 2006
by andrey
Yes, to know Him personally. This is the aim, is not it? The aim is the meeting. Why should we put the nose in the Murli, when He himself is here? The Murli itself leads us to Him. It is like holding a map to go to...Tower bridge...and when you reach Tower bridge you don't lift eyes to see, you just stare at the map.

Om Shanti

PostPosted: 16 Aug 2006
by john
I see where you are coming from.

You are the second person recently to indicate Murli is not that important. One a BK and one a PBK. It seems like you are saying once Baba is found Murli (the map) is not needed?

I assume then you have met Baba. I wouldn't say a meeting is to know someone personally. In what way do you mean personally?

Murli clarification point
Whatever knowledge I narrate, if you listen to that knowledge and inculcate it then you will become a deity in the Golden Age." That is why Father explains, "I give the maximum number of lectures. I have to explain the most because I am ocean of knowledge.

PostPosted: 16 Aug 2006
by andrey
Yes, Murli is needed so that one can know Him. How can one know Him without Him revealing Himself through the Murli. But written Murli is 3rd class Murli. One can know another one by the expression of the face, by the language of the eyes, by the love of the eyes, by the light in the eyes, by the light on the forehead, by the gestures of the body, by the tone of the voice, by the smile on the face, by the way one moves, by the way one walks, by the way one eats, by the way one sits, by the way one drinks, by the way one laughs, by the way one sleeps, by the way one talks, by the stage of the soul inaide one can guess, by the breath one takes, by the vibrations one vibrates, by the thoughts one eminates, by the presence one presents, by the way one adresses another one.

One can also see oneself as in a mirror by the way one see oneself in front of Him. Personally i mean face to face. Personally i mean with the intellect to be in front of Him and not to wander arround, searching for Him.

Yes, about the Murli point ... does it mean ... listens personally, through the ears...

PostPosted: 16 Aug 2006
by john
Shiva the Supreme Father Supreme Soul does these things?

Then why does Murli say, Remember me and forget all bodily beings.

Then what does that mean?

I think things are getting off topic with the thread and original queries.

I begin to think maybe you are the PBK secret weapon for thread sabotage :D

PostPosted: 16 Aug 2006
by andrey
Sure He does. He says so in the Murli. To live together, to eat together etc.

He says like this because when He Himself does these He is not a bodily being.

PostPosted: 16 Aug 2006
by bansy
Living with ShivBaba...trickey topic
If ShivBaba is here, then why not drop everything, switch off this PC, take the next plane, and live next to or near Him. Live together, eat together, etc. We all agree that Madhubans and mini-Madhubans are great places to be. What's stopping you. Your mind would not wander at all. Then one need not be 3rd class, when you can have it 1st class.

One of the common reasons given for going back to your home is to settle your karma. Well, I think if you go to live with God, your karma is completely settled, He's the magician.

Of course, all of this is just subtle. Guess we're all numberwise.

PostPosted: 16 Aug 2006
by john
Andrey I am sorry to have to say that it appears you haven't answered anything, just a bit of waffle, albeit good waffle, but so irelevant to the points, lacking in focus and a distraction to the queries raised.

PostPosted: 17 Aug 2006
by andrey
Dear Brother John

What is the question?

People say it is impossible to meet God. The Confluence Age is the age to make impossible - possible.