On the Subject of Sorrow

• In this context, to cut to the chase, more pertinent question to ask would be;

if someone came to you and asked how they could abort their female foetus or get rid of their unwanted female daughter - as increasing practised widely in India, China and S.E. Asia - what would you say to them, or what practical alternatives should the Yagya offer those kunyas?

I would direct them to the abortionist, and help with the abortion if required.

In the early days of Yagya BKs had tight security, maybe they still do?

I remember as a child our home always had the doors open and we kids played in the streets. At night windows were open. Cars did not have alarms. Much has changed in a short time.

And it is surprising to know that the Yagya had to have tight security.

PBKs, is there tight security in Kampil ?

John, my reference to the break-in at Buckingham Palace was the intention of the man was, for my part at least, pure to want to meet the Queen because he adored her. Though I guess you already realised this point, just to clarify it for others unaware of the situation.

Not everyone who enters a building has the intention to cause harm, nor a result ends in tragedy even if the original intent was to cause harm. There was the case of the man who tried to kill Lekhraj Kirpalani but couldn't do so, eventually Lekhraj Kirpalani gave him some food and he left in peace. Then again, Gandhiji is walking amongst his followers, and gets shot.

John, my reference to the break-in at Buckingham Palace was the intention of the man was, for my part at least, pure to want to meet the Queen because he adored her ... Not everyone who enters a building has the intention to cause harm, nor a result ends in tragedy even if the original intent was to cause harm. There was the case of the man who tried to kill Dada Lekhraj but couldn't do so.

Michael Fagan. Not charged for trespassing in the Queen's bedroom since it was then a civil offence and proceedings would have compromised the Queen's position as head of state. Which says a lot all round for British darna. Could you imagine if the same thing happened in America? He was sent to psychiatric hospital.

The story I was told about the BB assassin was that he had a terrible vision and then ran out but it could have been myth making.

BTW, I was only teasing you about the cowabunga question bansy, so forgive me. But it is a good lesson for us all not to take the questions or propositions that life offers us at face value and watch out how we reveal ourselves.

Now, button slammer,I have a question for you;

what would you do if you discovered ex-l rummaging through your wallet trying to find $500? [ ... I have my bank account and code ready and accept Visa ... ]

OK. I am intrigued. This sounds like a classic Zen response and I am waiting for the one handed punchline.

Q. 'what would you do if you discovered ex-l rummaging through your wallet trying to find $500'?

A. the cub becomes a wolf....

only teasing you about the cowabunga question bansy, so forgive me.

Thanks. Don't worry. And same to everyone else in this forum, for expressing their opinions. Keeping an open mind, my own churning is as valid as each others, and for those still very active in meditation (whatever form you like), take a few minutes breather, your self traffic control, and we all come out better learned. I learn about respecting the replies from others, young and old, because I realise there's still so much I don't know.

This thread has turned out to be an interesting one, it could even be a seperate section called "applying in real situations" but without too much Yoga jargon.

Although we're equipped with "Gyan", do we really know what to do in a given situation ? Keyword --> practically. We can give a reasonable reply to a situation because we have time to think and type it out, but in Gyan your test papers come in a second. I feel we should NOT try to see so far into events (I certainly have a tendency to do so), as then it becomes an expectation and you've already made up your mind. I feel we don't have control of the actual result. If our current thought of a situation is positive and pure, then whatever the result is you can then be beyond and above it. It does help the more soul conscious (i.e. be in remembrance) you are.

I don't have $500.

You can keep my grotty purse, but give me back my photo of BB (ooops did I slip there ) There's two punchlines.

For its said by Baba in this particular Murli where this story was mentioned, the one who leads another to commit a wrong act would experience more downfall than the one who performed the act itself. So this is said for the religous preceptors who divert people away from God. Although we may narrate truth to some one, unless in giving that truth we will cause benefit then we should be careful.

I have heard that Murli too and fully agree with you.

pbktrinityshiva wrote:

For its said by Baba in this particular Murli where this story was mentioned, the one who leads another to commit a wrong act would experience more downfall than the one who performed the act itself. So this is said for the religous preceptors who divert people away from God. Although we may narrate truth to somone, unless in giving that truth we will cause benifit then we should be careful.

Regarding the cow-butcher theme (the cow being a virgin or mother)

I would direct the butcher to the cow and help him to kill it if required.

and regarding the unborn feotus,

I would direct them to the abortionist, and help with the abortion if required.

button slammer, in both instances you've given replies for actions to completed to the very end and assist in the final event.

Please can you share and explain your reasoning ?

PBKs, is there tight security in Kampil ?

Security is not over the top but none the less people are very watchful I noticed. It definitely is a rough area I do not think they take too many chances, especially with the number of virgins/mothers to protect. But yes really if somone wanted to get in I guess they could. Not sure if ShivBaba's Avyakt presence would keep them out ... maybe though

Regarding the cow-butcher theme (the cow being a virgin or mother)

I would direct the butcher to the cow and help him to kill it if required.

and regarding the unborn feotus,

I would direct them to the abortionist, and help with the abortion if required.

button slammer, in both instances you've given replies for actions to completed to the very end and assist in the final event.

Please can you share and explain your reasoning ?

Life and death situations lead to clarity, self realisation follows. Subsequent actions are based on purity of intent.
Never judge a book by its cover (of action).

1. Faith in the soul.
2. Faith in the Purifier Father.
3. Faith in Drama

'There is benefit in drama at every step...'

'The final scenes of destruction are not for the faint hearted...'

The butcher, the observer, the cow.....Who are they? I am the butcher, I am the observer, I am the cow...I the soul am an actor, playing a part, performing on the stage.... whatever your role ShivBaba accepts you totally. Every soul has to play its part. I am demonic and deity like. The Cycle continues to spin.

'There is benefit in drama at every step...'

Yes, but I think this point means that should an unfavorable situation or undesirable outcome behold to you, one should see the benefits. Which does not mean getting involved in everything that is happening simply for the sake of it. It is because of this involvement and interference the world appears to be in a current mess.

I don't think dieties (or angels) get involved in what actually happens everywhere, they just let it happen but are always there for others in need for forgiveness of their sin, or when others come to thank the dieties for their fortune. Hence be Godly, holy. Dieties are to be worshipped otherwise they are just plain ordinary humans.

But I do see your point that whilst we are not yet deities, one can get the full understanding when the full events are all completed, and not when partially complete, and ShivBaba does not mind whether you are in or out of the situation as long as there is Faith.

However, no-one needs to interfere with anything that is happening, does ShivBaba come to the rescue at every situation that is happening ?

I know this topics getting a bit ancient now but I thought i'd post a part of this Murli clarification ... I just read it and because it contains the point that was being discussed in this topic about the cow, thought it was worth posting.

VCD* No. 253, Audio Cassette No.734, dated 06.06.05, Ahmednagar, Clarification of Murli dated 23.09.66
Ref. No.VCD*., Email dated 21.10.06

"Even while talking, we must check that whatever we spoke; some people have a habit that whatever they speak, they spoil the vibrations. They will utter something which will increase the body consciousness. They do not feel comfortable without increasing the body consciousness. So (we must check) whether our speech is accruing any sinful act? Similar is the case with the bodily organs. There are other sense organs also. Eyes are the highest sense organs. There are other sense organs also. Ear is an organ for listening. Ear – an organ for listening; should we imbibe, assimilate whatever we listen through our ears or should we listen from one ear and leave it through the other ear? If someone narrates something which is in accordance with the Shrimat, then we must imbibe it. It will cause our benefit. It will cause benefit to others also. If we listen to something that is against the Shrimat; what? Which is the worst thing against the Shrimat in the world that was narrated to us by the people of the world? Omnipresence (of God). What? If someone narrates the matter of omnipresence, or any knowledge; if he narrates anything, then you must check – whatever he has narrated to us – does it prove the Supreme Soul Father to be omnipresent (sarvavyaapi) or does it prove Him to be present in one (ekvyaapi)? Whatever was narrated, whatever was narrated by the speaker; are his words proving Father to be omnipresent or are his words proving Father to be present in one?
OK, this Vishnu Party and this Krishna party – so many parties are emerging; whatever they are narrating; is it proving Father to be present in one or is it proving Father to be present in many (anekvyaapi)? (Someone said – It is proving Father to be present in many).

So, if he is proved to be present in many, then will it cause benefit or harm? We are performing the shooting of causing harm. We will perform the shooting of causing harm here also and then we will perform the shooting of causing harm from the Copper Age also. We will cause harm to the self as well as others. So what would happen? Our sorrowful births would increase and the births of prosperity would reduce. Father says – My children should enjoy the maximum births in prosperity. They are the children of the Father, who bestows happiness (Sukhdaataa Baap). What? Those religious fathers teach such knowledge that they become bestowers of sorrows (dukhdaataa). Their followers also become sorrowful (dukhee). Who is our teacher? Our teacher is the Father, who is a bestower of prosperity. His title is ‘Sukhdaataa’. What? Even if he looks through the eyes, it would cause pleasure. Whatever action He performs through the bodily organs would also cause pleasures. Whatever action He performs through the sense organs would also result in happiness. It cannot cause sorrows. His name itself is Shiv. What? He is benefactor (kalyaankaari) in every circumstance. He does not cause harm in any manner at all. So how should the children of the Sukhdaataa Father be? They must also be bestowers of prosperity (sukhdaayi).

Everyone performs actions, but what is the intention (bhaav) behind the actions? What? The intention is important (pradhaan). What is the intention behind performing any action? Suppose a cow is going (somewhere). A butcher is following the cow from behind. We speak a lie. What? The cow is not going this way. It has gone that way. So we spoke a lie. Although we lied, but what is the intention? The cow should be saved. The butcher will kill it. Now here it is not a matter of that cow. Which kinds of cows are present here? It is the human cows. These virgins and mothers are cows. Now-a-days butchers are chasing them. Somehow, the virgins and mothers avoid them and come to the Ashram to surrender (themselves); the butchers chase them. They start acting in an opposite way. It happens like this here in the ashram; and it happens like that here in the ashram. Arey, what happens in your world? Here the Father has revealed the secrets of everyone in the Murli. Father says – today a Father does not leave his daughter (without assaulting her); a maternal uncle does not leave her niece; a Brother does not leave his Sister. A brother-in-law does not leave his sister-in-law.

So what is happening in the world? Nobody in the world can give whatever the Father comes and gives. He is the bestower of pleasures (sukhdaataa). If anyone wishes to give Him the title of bestower of sorrows, then he cannot get it. If someone throws garbage on the Sun. If he collects garbage, then what would happen? That garbage would certainly come back. It will return and fall back on his face. It may take some time, but it come and will fall there only. That is why one must remain carefree (nishchint). Care free from what? If someone causes defamation, then one must not get influenced by it. If someone causes our defamation, if someone defames our Father, and if we get influenced; he acts in such a manner! I cannot hear it. I cannot listen. I will beat him. No. We should not become instrumental for that. We should listen from one ear and leave it through the other. Our ears are not weak. Our ears are strong. Someone may keep narrating to us to any length....."

Thanks for the Murli part pbktrinityshiva.

Yes, it is the "intention", so thus when the soul is pure, the intention is also pure, as your thoughts, words and subsequent actions. The result of a pure thought is always pure. Our impurities, however, often give rise to wrong results, wrong judgements and wrong interpretations. I equate it to mountain water, which is very cool and clear at the top and appears so, but by the time it reaches into the rivers and valleys below, it can be amongst a lot of soil and debris but the water is in essence still cool and clear, though our visual judgement we will see the water as being dirty.

OK, this Vishnu Party and this Krishna party – so many parties are emerging

What is the Krishna party ?