PBK Interpretations and Blasphemy

What I am talking about is does the BK form of remembrance cut sins

Dear John Bhai, in my experience the form of remembering God as a point of light definitely cuts my sins.

Remembering just a point also will lead to becoming a point. We should become complete souls whilst in the body.

Could you clarify, what you are trying to say here 'remembering a point also will lead to becoming a point'

Are you saying remembering a point is wrong?

Dear Brother John.
Of course we should remember ourselves as a point, Him as a point, others as points, drama as point. But by saing He is a point, His speciality cannot be known. To remember just a point of light is an old way. The easiest way is to remember Narayan [Virendra Dev Dixit]. Even if Shiva does not play a part anymore [because it is said Confluence Age of 40 years]. I come and depart after giving the kingdom. So if this kingdom is already given and He has departed, it doesn’t matter. We know who is Brahma, Vishnu, Shankar, Lakshmi, Narayan, Radha Krishna etc.

To remember just a point is wrong for the ones who has taken the aim to become from a man to Narayan. Just look at the BK film of what do they teach. At the time of destruction – Dadi will give a signal and we’ll all leave the bodies for the Soul World. Baba does not teach this. He teaches to die whilst alive to leave the consciousness of the body and not to leave the body physically. No one likes to die. And what happens then. Stars come on the earth in Heaven and become bodies like magic. It is really childish.

These used to be the visions of BB too, but is this possible? It is because BB too misses in between and does not become from man into Narayan in the same birth, but a man to prince in the next birth. He takes birth from his parents and what has happened meanwhile he does not know. Where would these bodies come from? Someone would have to remain, would not they. So if we remember just a point we may leave the body and miss in between. Just a point – without a body is non-living. When we remember a non-living entity, we’ll become the same.

Baba, the eternal surgeon, says a big operation is happening for the whole world. Those who cannot watch faint.

It is easier to feel yourself soul in the Soul World

A soul does not feel in the Soul World.

and He knows that

Can he know in the Soul World? The way we remember him – whilst we are in the bodies – the same way he remembers us.

Just a point – without a body is non living. When we remember a non living entity we’ll become the same.

Of course, this is not literally true, because Shiva would have moments of not living ... unless you're saying Shiva is always in a body in the Confluence Age? Also will that include subtle bodies or not?

Before you answer, bear in mind I did not say gone back to Soul World, what I mean is, is Shiva always in Virendra Dev Dixit, if not does he shoot (move quickly) from body to body or what? If you're not sure of the answer please don't move onto other irrelevant points to distract from that. Take a deep breath and simply write 'I don't know'. I promise it wont hurt Of course, if you do know the answer then great, but just don't pretend to.

I know from Murlis that he is not in the body all the time, no one can know when He comes and goes, that souls in Paramham are like non-living entities and that we should consider it is always ShivBaba apeaking. From my own self, I add that they are [the souls] living whilst in the body + whenever the child remembers I become present + no one can invoke me I come on my own. If it makes sense. For me there is a little contradiction too in how we cannot invoke but he comes. He comes pulled by the string love of the children, however it makes one think which for me is beneficial.

It is very strange the editing opportunity because ... it changes all the time, one replies and then it becomes obvious there is no need, or whatever he has replied seems irrelevant.

A soul does not feel in the Soul World.

If a soul doesn't think or feel in the Soul World, how does Shiva know what the Soul World is like?

How is it known that the Soul World is the pure Brahm element and the peace of the Soul World has to be brought down to earth?

If you say there is no experience in the Soul World, then how does any soul know what it is?

I think we should discriminate between the Soul World, that is the Soul World up there where the soul is without a body, where there is no time, space, feelling movement or consciousness. This world exists, as does the other Soul World that is here whilst souls are in the bodies. This Soul World down here is the Soul World where the world of souls has become of the soul-conscious stage which results in peace and silence. Shiva comes with this stage and cannot fall down from it, we can catch and drop, but can also become, because we did the last cycle.

Another question is how does He gives visions etc. from the Soul World after Copper Age. I know he has said - this is the key [of giving visions] I'll never give. I give you a kingdom instead. I sincerely don't know this point, but like to think about it.

Another question is how does He gives visions etc. from the Soul World after Copper Age. I know he has said - this is the key /of giving visions/ I'll never give. I give you kingdom instead. I sincerely don't know this point, but like to think about it.

I think the divine visions are dealt out in the Confluence Age, through some connection with Shiva because it is said Shiva only plays the part of the Confluence Age. I am not saying divine visions are only had in the Confluence Age, just that the part of receiving the ability to have them is gained from Shiva in the Confluence Age.

Still I have the query of how the Soul World (proper) is known about since you are saying there is no experience there. Actually, I am not saying I disagree with you on this point, but I am just wondering how these points tally.

If a soul doesn't think or feel in the Soul World, how does Shiva know what the Soul World is like?

How is it known that the Soul World is the pure Brahm element and the peace of the Soul World has to be brought down to earth?

If you say there is no experience in the Soul World, then how does any soul know what it is?

Dear John Bhai,
With reference to your above querries a/t Andrey Bhai, I would like to say that Baba has said that a soul without a body is like a non-living object. Whatever experiences are to be made should be made whilst in the body only. Similar is the case with the experience of the Soul World. Since there are no bodies there, there cannot be any experience of peace for the souls there. The world of sounds is this Earth. Since Baba is beyond The Cycle of birth and death He knows The Knowledge about the Three Worlds. He tells us about the atmosphere of peace in the Soul World. But that atmosphere of peace has to be experienced here in this world full of noise pollution while living in this body. I wish to quote a small Murli point which seems relevant to the context.

"The question of peace and peacelessness is applicable here in this world only. That is nirvaandhaam (Soul World), where the question of peace or peacelessness does not arise at all.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 21.09.05, page 1 published by BKs and narrated by Father Shiv through Brahma Baba)

With regards,
OGS,
Arjun

Of course, this is not literally true, because Shiva would have moments of not living ... unless you're saying Shiva is always in a body in the Confluence Age? Also will that include subtle bodies or not?

Before you answer, bear in mind I did not say gone back to Soul World, what I mean is, is Shiva always in Veerendra Dev Dixit, if not does he shoot (move quickly) from body to body or what?

Omshanti. I have a relevant Murli point which should clear your doubt as to whether Shiva always remains in the body of the corporeal Chariot or not. Although it was narrated during the time of Brahma Baba, it is applicable to the current corporeal Chariot of Shiva also (believed to be BabaVDD by the PBKs).

"Baba does not know how the soul of ShivBaba comes and goes. It is also not true that it (Soul of Shiv) remains in this body always.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 18.8.05, page 1 published by BKs, and narrated by Father Shiv through Brahma Baba)

There is another Murli point which should clear your doubt about as to whether Shiv always remains in Baba Virendra Dev Dixit or does He enter into the bodies of other souls also.

“This BapDada, both are combined, isn’t it? ShivBaba gives knowledge and then departs or what happens, who can say? If Baba is asked, ‘Do you remain (in this body) or do you go away? One cannot ask Father this question, isn’t it?’ Father says, ‘I show you the path to get transformed from a sinful one to a pure one. I may come; I may go; I have to do a lot of works. I also visit the children; I get work done through them. One should not raise any matter of doubt in this. Our job is to remember Father.....Children must first of all have the faith that Baba has come and is making us pure.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 23.12.05, page 3 published by BKs, and narrated by Father Shiv through Brahma Baba)

Since all the above Murli points are from last year's Murlis, you can verify from the local BK center records if you have access to them.

With regards,
OGS,
Arjun

Baba has said that a soul without a body is like a non-living object.

Then in that sense Shiva cannot function outside a body? Or does non-living body mean something else?

If Shiva is not permanently in Veerendra Dev Dixit, then he will have to be entering into other bodies or not functioning as a non-living object. Shiva doesn't have a subtle body of his own, so it sounds like he will always have to reside in someone or others body whilst here in the Confluence Age.

Arjun Bhai wrote:

Baba has said that a soul without a body is like a non-living object.

Then in that sense Shiva cannot function outside a body? Or does non-living body mean something else?

If Shiva is not permanently in Veerendra Dev Dixit, then he will have to be entering into other bodies or not functioning as a non-living object. Shiva doesn't have a subtle body of his own, so it sounds like he will always have to reside in someone or others body whilst here in the Confluence Age.

Omshanti. I remember some PBK having asked a similar doubt. I will check my records if I have that Q&A. Otherwise I would intimate after seeking answer from Baba.

With regards,
OGS,
Arjun

Admin,
In line with the last few posts above, maybe there should be a category "ex-PBK" who could answer some recent threads. Maybe this will attract some wandering ex-PBK googler to participate but they don't have a category to belong to. Just a hope. Do folks in this forum agree ?

It is very strange the editing opportunity because ... it changes all the time, one replies and then it becomes obvious there is no need, or whatever he has replied seems irrelevant.

Do you mean editing in this forum or in Murlis. I usually edit my posts long after a thread is complete, or just after submitting the post, due to grammatical tenses and spelling mistakes, just to make it easier for others to read. Of course, some posts are "edited" because they are crossing over each other at the same time.

Do you mean editing in this forum or in Murlis. I usually edit my posts long after a thread is complete, or just after submitting the post, due to grammatical tenses and spelling mistakes, just to make it easier for others to read. Of course, some posts are "edited" because they are crossing over each other at the same time.

Yes, I have experienced that a few times. I was still correcting a post when someone replied to the original version. Sometimes I like to submit it so that I can see how it looks and then SpellCheck it, lay it out or format it better. This happened with andrey recently.

On topic ... it is said that sometimes Baba overshadows the children to help or protect them. What happens then? Is he still at Kampil or in Virendra Dev Dixit?

Personally, I do not see why he cannot be in two places at the same time because from his point of view, or Paramdham, everywhere is here and all is one. There are accounts, I do not know of how true nor have I experienced such, of lesser saints being able to express such Siddhi powers ...

Murli quote supplied by ArjunBhai:

I have to do a lot of works.

Personally, I do not see why he cannot be in two places at the same time because from his point of view, or Paramdham, everywhere is here and all is one. There are accounts, I do not know of how true nor have I experienced such, of lesser saints being able to express such Siddhi powers ...

Yes, Shiva does seem to be a bit quiet about the 'other works' he does.

Maybe he goes for a kip with Brahma Baba in the Subtle Regions, but doesn't want children to know so they wont slow down their efforts.