PBK Interpretations and Blasphemy

Bhai,

I will view that VCD* today.

atma

that the explanation about the soul of Ram getting the title of ShivBaba after the departure of Father Shiv from this world was given

If you look at the picture of The Tree (available on this site) right at the end, bottom right hand corner is the writing.

GREAT BLUNDERS

By preaching that a human soul is Shiva or that God is omnipresent, the preachers have led mankind astray from me

I will view that VCD* today.

Dear Atma, Hi!

There are two different VCD* about the same subject. In one, the one you seen Baba just mention that he posted the letters to Mount Abu. But there is another VCD* where Baba is replying to questions about the subject and than he (Virendra Dev Dixit) also says that the post was refused by the BKs.

Now I need to see all my VCD* again to give you the exact number!!!!

Bhai,

On the VCD* with the Australian/London Party discussion Baba (Virendra Dev Dixit) says in 1975-76 all the 4 pictures and the cream of The Knowledge was sent by registered and was rejected. (Then afterwards I am unable to clearly here what else is said maybe someone with better audio can assist I believe it is around 51 minutes into the conversation.)

Now what does rejected mean does it mean rejected the mail or rejected The Knowledge?

atma

By preaching that a human soul is Shiva or that God is omnipresent, the preachers have led mankind astray from me

Hi John,

I tell you how I get my head around this, and it might be good advice to the PBKs. In the West, we are very word conscious. Words have tight meanings like trademarks and I think we conceive, or our consciousness demands that 'Shiv' or 'Shiva' has one fixed specific meaning. We are also frustrated by the Indian mind that seems to be able to hold two entirely different and even contradictory concepts at the same time and also embrace ambiguities as if they don't exist. I put it down to cultural difference created by one people with many religions living in one land together that have not had the Romans or Roman Catholic Church ride roughshod over their tribal religions and install One God and One truth and then evolve via The Enlightement into the Scientific Industrial Revolution. Largely, the village mentality is still tribal-medieval.

OK. This is a "20 word or less" summary of thought. In short the ambiguities they do not even see, frustrate the hell of of us. And, of course, a large part of The Knowledge is infantile because it was meant for women, children and entirely uneducated individuals as the Yagya largely consisted of at the time. We have come along way in 50/60 years.

I have start to think around this and question if "God's" name actually is Shiva. Whether Shiva is not a name as such, a trademark, but a description. And in that ShivBaba is fine because it is just a description as well. Shiva meaning " The Benefactor", ShivBaba meaning the Beneficial Father. A sort of junior beneficial one, a capital S and a lower case s scenario. I have no idea if what the PBKs are saying is true, I just wish that they would get over the Murlis, finding "proofs" or justifying themselves, and move on. Largely, that too is cultural. Punditry. Lengthy abstract scriptural debate. Mostly it is pointless because it is not the way that other folks are convinced.

I agree with you that you just cannot take one line out of the context of a Murli and apply it 30 years. The truth is, some of these quotes just do not resonate; some seem to be pretty desperate band aids to hold faith together. May be neither the BKs nor the PBKs and their respective channels really understand the nature of the Shivas whilst both are channelling it, him or they. Human conscious is limited. The BKs are obviously going to highly defensive and completely resistant to any challenge to their authority. I think what would erode their position more is accurate documentation of the history of Yagya.

Did PBKs see the post I stuck up on the BK forum?

Murlis: 15 June 1969, 28 May 1969, 2 June 1975, 28 May 1974
“At the beginning of the Yagna there were two female children who used to even direct Mama and Baba, used to be teacher and used to play superb part. They left their mortal coils.”
Murli: 23 July 1969
“The (male) person who was with him for 10 years, she (the female) used to go in trance, used to drill Baba (Dada Lekhraj) also. Entering into them Father (ShivBaba) used to give direction. How much status did they have! Today they were no more. (Because) at that time there was not so much of knowledge.”
Murli: 23 July 1969
“He was associated there for 10 years. (She) often used go into the trance. They even tutored Mama and Baba. Father (Supreme Soul) entering them used to give directions. So high was their status. Today they are no more. At that time so much of knowledge was not there”.

I do not know what or why the last "(She)" is put into brackets or who the other two female children were, what was going on then?

I just wish that they would get over the Murlis, finding "proofs" or justifying themselves, and move on

I can see that Murli points in a way become redundant, when so many interpretations can be put into them. Which brings me back to the point of having all Murlis available, because my knowledge only comes from about one and a half years worth and even they might be altered to give a different overall meaning.

Thanks for the summary of Indian thinking against Western thinking. I think you are right, well for me anyway tight definitions really help in understanding, but it doesn't look like that is going to happen, at least not yet. Actually, I was quite happy with one ShivaBaba ... easy

Now what does rejected mean does it mean rejected the mail or rejected The Knowledge?

Hi ... In my opinion and in the context of the conversation in the VCD*, I think by rejecting the post they are rejecting The Knowledge automatically.

When I meet Baba I remember he, Virendra Dev Dixit, saying that there is a lot of information going and coming like in a "black market" thing. That there were souls in the PBK side doing this and in the BKs also. That is the way they get all the VCD* and clarifications.

surya

that the explanation about the soul of Ram getting the title of ShivBaba after the departure of Father Shiv from this world was given

If you look at the picture of The Tree (available on this site) right at the end, bottom right hand corner is the writing.

GREAT BLUNDERS
By preaching that a human soul is Shiva or that God is omnipresent, the preachers have led mankind astray from me

I agree with you John that the two pieces of information clash here. But I am on Arjunbhai side when comes to explanations about ShivBaba. ShivBaba is here for the whole 5000 years. At the moment, the meaning of ShivBaba is only known by the PBK children.

What I want to say is that in my heart he (Virendra Dev Dixit) is/will be the living ShivBaba.

Surya

But I am on Arjunbhai side when comes to explanations about ShivBaba.

Surya only be on the side of ShivaBaba otherwise you will become Arjunbhai Bhagat

hi John

Surya only be on the side of ShivaBaba otherwise you will become Arjunbhai Bhagat

Yes, thanks for the advice! But still better be Arjun's , than Dadi Janki's Bhagat Be careful you too

Yes, thanks for the advice! But still better be Arjuns Cool than Dadi Jankis Bhagat Evil or Very Mad Be careful you too Laughing

Who's Dadi Janki?

John;

Who's Dadi Janki?

Hi divine Brother!
oh sorry! I did not realize you do not know her! This soul is the head of the BKWSU in London.

She got 'such high position' at the end of the Kalpa! The subject you have been talking about in this forum. According to ex-l she said that, "we have nothing to think about" . This is the one! Maybe one day you will meet her around.

omshanti.

She got ' such high position' at the end of the Kalpa! The subject you have been talking about in this forum.

Actually it is PBK Brothers talking about this I seem to have hit a nerve. What I am talking about is does the BK form of remembrance cut sins, but no one is listening

OK, I got sidetracked and joined in, but I've made several attempts to get back to my original point. Also there'a a tendency that if any mention is made of BKs or Dadis a knee jerk reaction arrives of, "well, go and be a follower of precepters if you like".

Quite immature really.

Yes, Brother, sure it cuts sins. I have mentioned this. Here is a quote.

Yes, remembering only point can even cut sins, like Christ, Budhha, they remember the incorporeal, they may have their sins absolved but they cannot enter Heaven

I know this from Baba. But those souls who came in Heven with less births ... they also don't remember the incorporeal in corporeal. These are my thoughts. For instance those who come after Brahma Baba, remember Brahma Baba. Those who come after them, remember the ones before them etc.

Baba asks will those who have had corporeal sustenance remember the corporeal more or the incorporeal more? They will remember the corporeal more. And those who have not seen will remember the point more.

Whatever the eyes see they remember. All are so amazed by Brahma Baba, pictures are there, stories, memorial, celebrations etc. Can it be said that they don't remember him?

Whatever we remember it is what we become. Brahma Baba is incomplete form. That's why the result of this rememberance is incomplete. They meet the same destiny. He left the body. They also will.

Remembering just a point also will lead to becoming a point. We should become complete souls whilst in the body.

Did PBKs see the post I stuck up on the BK forum?

Murlis: 15 June 1969, 28 May 1969, 2 June 1975, 28 May 1974
“At the beginning of the Yagna there were two female children who used to even direct Mama and Baba, used to be teacher and used to play superb part. They left their mortal coils.”
Murli: 23 July 1969
“The (male) person who was with him for 10 years, she (the female) used to go in trance, used to drill Baba (Dada Lekhraj) also. Entering into them Father (ShivBaba) used to give direction. How much status did they have! Today they were no more. (Because) at that time there was not so much of knowledge.”
Murli: 23 July 1969
“He was associated there for 10 years. (She) often used go into the trance. They even tutored Mama and Baba. Father (Supreme Soul) entering them used to give directions. So high was their status. Today they are no more. At that time so much of knowledge was not there”.

I do not know what or why the last "(She)" is put into brackets or who the other two female children were, what was going on then?

Omshanti.

'She' might have been put into bracket to bring the English translation nearer to the original Hindi text. It would have been correct even if it was used without brackets.

One of the other two female children refer to the soul which played the role of Yagya mother (Jagdamba or Gita mata) in the beginning of the Yagya along with the Yagya Father (or Prajapita or Sevakram). The other female child refers to another mother who heard the clarification of divine visions caused to Dada Lekhraj, when the same was being narrated to Dada Lekhraj by Gita Mata at Calcutta. The second mother is generally referred to as 'Radha Bachhi' in the Advanced Knowledge, but the concrete proofs for the exact names of 'Gita mata' and 'Radha bachhi' are yet to be found.

With regards,
OGS,
Arjun