Remembering Shiva

for Prajapita Brahma Kumaris (Advance Party), or those interested in becoming PBKs, to discuss AIVV matters in an open, non-judgemental manner.
Forum rules Read only. BK and PBK followers wishing to discuss "The Knowledge" from the point of view of a "believer", please use; http://www.bk-pbk.info.
  • Message
  • Author
User avatar

raviraj

PBK

  • Posts: 29
  • Joined: 26 Jul 2006

Post02 Sep 2006

My residence is up above. You mustn’t wander around after Me here. Remember Me up there

What does it mean 'my residence is up above'?

dear john bahiji,
according to Baba's clarifications, it has both literal and unlimited meaning. The residence of Shiv is also called ‘Brahm?-tatwo’ which is above the perimeter of pancha-vautik-tatwa(five elements of nature). That is his residence, up above.

But when he has to leave his residence to come down to this Sakar world, into a Sakar form, the form becomes the residence of Shiv in chaitanya. Therefore, it has been said many a times, ‘whichever body I take I have to give it a name ‘Brahma.’ The word Brahma is derived from Brahm-tatwa, meaning the residence of Shiv. He comes down from his broad residence (Brahm-tatwa) and reveals himself through chaitanya residence(Parajpita-brahma). Note: Brahma and Prajapita-Brahma refers to the soul of Krishna and Ram respectively who are the two main actors in drama.

if Shiv is in Paramdham he is just a bindu but when he is in Sakar world, he is definitely in Sakar form. 'Baap ko Yaad karo aur ghar ko Yaad karo( remember the Father and the residence)'
Otherwise we have to remember a point of light

I am not sure what you mean here? Do you mean Shiva shouldn't be remembered as a point of light?

Every soul is a point of light. There is no peculiarity. No one can identify which point is the point of Shiv and which point is the point of ordinary soul. It would be known only when the soul presents itself with the body. It has never been said in the Murli to remember shiv-bindu, point of light. 'Remember ShivBaba', meaning remember Shiv, the point of light, in the body.
User avatar

john

reforming BK

  • Posts: 1563
  • Joined: 03 May 2006
  • Location: UK

Post02 Sep 2006

RavirajBhai

Thanks for the explaination, it is making more sense.

• What does chaitanya exactly mean?

• Why is it that BK Dadis and Didis get a high position even if they remember Shiva as point of light in Soul World?

• Also where do they get the idea that Shiva has returned to Paramdham?
User avatar

andrey

PBK

  • Posts: 1090
  • Joined: 13 May 2006

Post02 Sep 2006

Chaitanya means - alive - living

What high position? The highest position is to sit in the heart of BapDada, or on the head, or in the eyes, or on the forehead. The whole world remembers Him and He remembers the serviceable children, so they get power. Baba has said don’t get name and fame now. Don’t eat fruit now, accumulate for the future. Baba says, "the ones whom the world sees with a high vision, I don’t see with high vision". The world is now false. If one runs his shop honestly, one has no success. The ones whom the world doesn’t see with high vision, I see them with high vision. Which is better? The ones who get more name and fame now, consider them the more degraded. What post will they be having in Heaven? What post will they be having in front of ShivBaba, the creator of Heaven? For e.g. Kumarka Dadi was not even supposed to be a head. Another Dadi had been pointed out by BapDada.

I suppose no matter they wish, or not, Dadis and Didis automatically remember the Supreme Soul in Brahma Baba because of the influence, or even only Brahma Baba. When he is not there what should they tell others? That’s why – remember in Paramdham. If there is attachment to the body can one assume the Supreme Soul can play a part somewhere else. Proof is that even against Shrimat pictures are kept.

Yes, remembering only point can even cut sins, like Christ, Budhha, they remember the incorporeal, they may have their sins absolved but they cannot enter Heaven.
User avatar

john

reforming BK

  • Posts: 1563
  • Joined: 03 May 2006
  • Location: UK

Post02 Sep 2006

What post will they be having in Heaven?

Lakshmi, Narayans second generation onwards
User avatar

raviraj

PBK

  • Posts: 29
  • Joined: 26 Jul 2006

Post03 Sep 2006

Chaitanya comes from the word ‘chetana’, which means living or existing. for instance, ShivBaba says ‘the eye of the Father is on Delhi.’ this is said for both chaitanya Delhi and broad Delhi. ‘Chitra charitra ki yaadgar hai’ (picture is a semblance to the character)... and the character is always in chaitanya.

But these are all minute subject matters to discuss. the biggest subject is ‘baap ki pehechan (recognizing the Father). He is the source. One would say, ‘it is like this’ and the other would say, ‘it is slightly different’ planting their own manmat. But if our heart is really seeking it truly, then we would like to touch it ourselves, touch it, feel it, know it. If we are really willing to know ShivBaba by heart, we would definitely go to meet him. our Father has come for his beloved children. We should become his pukka child. This is the only time. peaceful time. Baba is calling his children. One must definitely take double course. 7 days Advance Course, and bhatti in Baba's house.

Baap ka baccha mana varse ka hakdaar (becoming Father's child (bhatti) means inheritence). So please! take out the time. only 10 days is enough. our queries will never be quenched from human. we would be entangled in queries, one giving rise to another. tomorrow there will be destruction and still we will be left with queries. Please! understand this, Baba has come but if we are doubtful about this, then let us go to him, meet him directly and know what our heart is seeking. The Ocean of Love is ShivBaba, let us go to the ocean now because we have heard enough from others. Now, we should know it ourselves by heart.

I wish all Brothers and Sisters would go meet Baba who is still in corporeal in the form of Father-Teacher-Satguru. All my encouragements and love to them.
User avatar

john

reforming BK

  • Posts: 1563
  • Joined: 03 May 2006
  • Location: UK

Post03 Sep 2006

Raviraj that is good advice, but even after meeting Baba there is still queries otherwise there would be no Question and Answer sessions with Baba. It is said knowledge will go on till the end.

Also you should be aware that the moderators have given PBKs a platform to speak and that in a previous forum PBKs were banned.
User avatar

raviraj

PBK

  • Posts: 29
  • Joined: 26 Jul 2006

Post03 Sep 2006

Bhaiji, thank you for taking it positively; you are right.

However, queries before bhatti and queries after bhatti become totally different. It is like the case of BKs when the outsiders, on the basis of worldly knowledge, come with so many questions and confusions in his mind, and after getting knowledge (becoming BK) his query will change on the basis of basic knowledge.

That is why no one, expect those PBKs who have done bhatti are allowed to attain Baba’s class, get direct replies from Baba through e-mails. In question answer session, when Baba knows that this person hasn’t done bhatti he would say, ‘pehele baap ka baccha bano, fir bolna sikhna. Theek hai? (first become ShivBaba’s child, then learn to speak. OK?) So, the main thing is ‘to become Father’s child’. And then, we won’t need any human to ask. Because direct Baba will be there for his child through letters, through emails, through mobile, through corporeal meeting. This is the greatest fortune of Sangamyug.

Obviously, until now we are receiving so many explaintions through PBK souls on the basis of Advanced Knowledge. Now, it is necessary to do bhatti, to receive Gyan 'one to one' in knowing the essence. If you are determined, it is not a big thing. You can manage your 10 days, and I am sure that would be the most important 10 days of your life. All of these effort made by PBK souls via posts/websites is to make other souls feel the pull, go there and feel themselves. You just feel by heart,' I have to meet him,' then, Baba will be your way to Baba.

Knowledge will go on till the end means when the total sum of seed-form-souls will reach 916,108, then The Knowledge will stop. Delivering knowledge and receiving knowledge will stop. And only Yaad will remain ...
User avatar

john

reforming BK

  • Posts: 1563
  • Joined: 03 May 2006
  • Location: UK

Post03 Sep 2006

Raviraj wrote:then The Knowledge will stop. delivering knowledge and receiving knowledge will stop.

So before that time do you have an answer as to why Dadis reach a high position, even when they don't remember in the correct way as described by PBKs?
User avatar

aimée

PBK

  • Posts: 190
  • Joined: 06 May 2006
  • Location: Oxford

Post03 Sep 2006

Baba has mentioned in the Sakar Murlis that the ones who are crowned will become rich and the ones who are poor will be crowned in the future.

I am not sure in which Murlis. He also gives help to whoever has courage. The Dadis are the VIP Baba (in Lekhraj Kirpalani) mentions in the Murlis, the gurus from outside. The Murlis are meant to speak to us Brahmins, BKs and PBKs, so everything that is mentioned is about us the family as a whole, the meanings are unlimited. It cannot be about the outside world, about people who will never read the Murlis. It would be pointless.

The Dadis have had in their life a lot of courage and a lot of dedication, but at some point, when the Father was revealed in 76 in the new Chariot (Virendra Dev Dixit), they could not recognise him because there was too much attachment to Brahma Baba as Lekhraj Kirpalani. As it is said in the Sakar Murlis, they have put Krishna instead of Bhagvan as the God of the Giita.

They also have an important role because they are doing the shooting for the path of Bhakti/devotion for the Copper Age of the Broad Drama.
User avatar

john

reforming BK

  • Posts: 1563
  • Joined: 03 May 2006
  • Location: UK

Post03 Sep 2006

So how are they still purifying themselves in the fire of Yoga, if it is not the correct way?
User avatar

andrey

PBK

  • Posts: 1090
  • Joined: 13 May 2006

Post03 Sep 2006

Dear Brother,
We become pure by keeping the company of one Purifier ShivBaba - through the Yoga of the intellect, in the mind, attached the heart, eyes, phisical company, everything, money, body, realationships, connections, etc. To what extend each one does it inside - how can it be measured. In the Murlis /through BB/it is said that Yaad is not visible, no one can tell the extend one have love.

What makes you think that they are pure? Caliming this is something else. There is only one Purifieir ShivBaba and only one everpure one - the same one. It is said if we remember Brahma Baba we become impure. What happens when one remembers just apoint is that the intellect becomes subtle and can grasp the advance knowldge. What i cannot say is the way they remember. However Advanced Knowledge in a positive or negative way has been spread in the BK, so it is also possible that they too even against their conscious wish remember incorporeal in corporeal. However if you would like to, go and become their follower to become pure. It is said that everyone will believe only his own religious perceptor.

ShivBaba comes to change the world of prostitution to a temple of Shiva. In the Shiva temple all worship one Shivling. In the brothel a prostitute makes connection with many. Although kanyas and matas in BK may lead a cast-away-from-the-world way of life, maintaining physical purity to high extend, do they have conection with one only? Whom have they entrusted to their body, mind etc? Is there ShivBaba present in practical, because the kanyas definitely get coloured by the company of the world, be it ShivBaba or someone else. No there are only impure men there. Men are all impure, e.g. the practice of exchanging glances between woman and men makes the atmosphere even more impure.

It is also said as long as we are alive we'll drink, meaning as long as we are alive for the world of old connections etc. We are to die alive. So it may be a matter of having knowledge, making effort for as long as the incorporeal stage is achieved, then Baba says there is knowledge in this stage no matter one has studied knowledge or not. It is also the way we can meet ShivBaba. It is said many times in the Murli through Brahma Baba that we should first consider ourselves to be souls then rememberence of the Father of the souls will come naturally.
User avatar

raviraj

PBK

  • Posts: 29
  • Joined: 26 Jul 2006

Post03 Sep 2006

why Dadis reach a high position,

dear john bhaiji,
In the world of Maya, the one who is entitled with high position are all Ravan. Bush is Ravan, Blair is Ravan, even Dalai Lama (in a true sense) is Ravan. We are the ones who are giving them preference of being high. But in the eyes of ShivBaba, in the eyes of God, they are just degraded souls who persist duality, and duality comes with Ravan (ten heads). Highest of the Highest is ShivBaba who comes as a beggar, the lowest position maybe in the worldly eyes.
if it is not the correct way?

The correct way of remembering has been changed since 1976, during the times of Brahma, when The Knowledge was new, it was said to remember 'shivling' and later children were told to practice remembering 'a fireball' and when the part was coming to its end, Baba mentioned clearly " ho sakta hai age chalkar Yaad ki vidi badaljaye" (maybe in future, the process of remembering might change). Now, ShivBaba is disclosing the correct way of remembering,i.e remembering nirakar is Sakar, remembering incorporeal in corporeal.

bkdimok

reforming BK

  • Posts: 292
  • Joined: 27 Aug 2006
  • Location: Russia, ICQ 261034552

Post03 Sep 2006

Om Shanti

Dear PBK's, please post in BK forum (topic Remembrance) how do you remember God.
User avatar

john

reforming BK

  • Posts: 1563
  • Joined: 03 May 2006
  • Location: UK

Post03 Sep 2006

Andrey
I don't wish to be rude , but you are just not listening properly. I am engaging in discussion about a point and it seems you are just being defensive. I am not sticking up for the BKs in the battle of BK verses PBK. I am just making an observation, can we not discuss things in a mature manner?

Raviraj
I have all ready explained I don't mean in Confluence Age as a real high position, but as Lakshmi Narayans in Golden Age, again it seems you are just intent on wanting to put them down.
the correct way of remembering has been changed since 1976, during the times of Brahma

Ha at last some nice and useful information relevant to what I was saying :)
Thank you for that Raviraj
User avatar

andrey

PBK

  • Posts: 1090
  • Joined: 13 May 2006

Post03 Sep 2006

Dear Brother John,

Yes, they should have made some special effort so that they receive this. I don't know what is the reward if one just remembers the corporeal. Baba has spoken about it. If any Brother knows, please share. Probably the ones to come after Saraswati Mama and Brahma Baba as Lakshmi and Narayan has some special connection with them. This is also something. They should have had faith that we are the ones to sit on the throne after them.

Yes, it is a special topic because if there is one Laksmi and Narayan what about the others? The aim is to become a king after all. What if two kings like to become kings at a time. There will be fight. So should we leave our aim? It is said that in the Golden Age all are kings of themselves. So we should aim for this and not to become a king with less degree subservient to someone else, before them. And, yes we should also accept one king.
PreviousNext

Return to PBK