Remembering Shiva

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andrey

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Post05 Sep 2006

ex-l wrote:Andrey can you tell us what it feels likes to be in your stage of conscious and what your Yoga experience is like? When you sit down in meditiation, what happens?

Why sit in meditation? Baba says walk, talk and remember.

Everyone becomes contented with his own stage. Everyone feels his own role, to be the highest. It’s not a matter of comparison because stage inside is subjective and cannot be measured or described. However - it is like - the soul inside has wings to fly higher than the sky.
bansy wrote:But if ShivBaba has nothing to do with the old, do you mean that there are no feelings for the other 6-7billion non Brahmin seed/base souls. Has Shiva somehow failed (Ram failed)

ShivBaba does not meet the whole world personally. All does not receive direct water of love. He may be completely detached and loving to everyone in an equall manner, but not all go to him with an equal stage. He says I give equally you take numberwise.

Shiva cannot fail. Ram is Different.
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raviraj

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Post05 Sep 2006

Sister bansy wrote:Has Shiva somehow failed (Ram failed)

Shiva and Ram are two different entities. we cannot tally the soul of Shiv with the soul of Ram. during the times of Brahma, Baba said, ' Ram fail ho gaya (Ram failed)' but Baba, never said Ram will be failed. Brahma was so intoxicated by the visions, feeling that ' I am going to become Krishna', he did not listen and there was a friction between Father and mother. so, the sun and his children left the Yagya. Ram(vagidaar) was failed in the beginning of the Yagya when The Knowledge was not full because the foundation of Bhakti marg was being made through visions to everyone. even now, when are we are getting such a powerful dose of knowledge directly, we lose out from knowledge. there is no soul of Satyug who don't become chandravanshi in treta, who don't fail. so, this is the part of a seed that until he embed itself completely on the earth(dharni), a new tree cannot be formed.

surya

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THE SOUL CAN FLY....

Post05 Sep 2006

Andrey wrote:
"However - it is like - the soul inside has wings to fly higher than the sky."

And what is the soul? How far can the soul fly?

Baba says..
'The farthest place is the Soul World. You show the path of intellect.
Mind and intellect are only called soul. When the mind & intellect becomes set in the farthest country, in the Soul World, then it is as like a dweller of the Soul World or in other words it can be said that you children bring the Soul World down to this world.'
VCD* NO.338, DATED 10.11.05, CLARIFICATION OF Murli DATED 07.01.67 by Baba (Virendra Dev Dixit).

Enjoy your flight.

Surya
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john

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Post06 Sep 2006

'The farthest place is the Soul World. You show the path of intellect.
Mind and intellect are only called soul. When the mind & intellect becomes set in the farthest country, in the Soul World, then it is as like a dweller of the Soul World or in other words it can be said that you children bring the Soul World down to this world.'

So is this the real meaning of bringing Soul World down to this world?
Of course, now I've said it some PBKs will disagree even though Baba has said it.
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arjun

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Post06 Sep 2006

BKDimOk wrote:Om Shanti.

Souls, can you explain me what is the difference between BK's and PBK's form of remembrance. If we all are studying Sakar Murlis there it said what we are to remeber God in His true form i.e. point of light, then what's the problem?

Dear Brother,
Omshanti. Until Brahma Baba was alive all the BKs used to remember incorporeal Father Shiv through the body of Brahma Baba. But after the demise of Brahma Baba most of the BKs have been remembering incorporeal Father Shiv as a point of light situated in the Soul World (Paramdham). But some BKs who have seen Brahma Baba in corporeal form (like the Dadis, Didis, old BKs etc.) still prefer to remember incorporeal Father Shiv through the picture of Brahma Baba.

In comparison, the PBKs remember the incorporeal Father Shiv through the body of Prajapita (i.e. Baba Virendra Dev Dixit).

In the Sakar Murlis the correct form of remembrance of God has been mentioned as the remembrance of the incorporeal through the corporeal, because in the 5000 years cycle we have to come in contact with the bodies, we have to remain soul conscious for upto 2500 years while living in the body. It is the souls of other religions which remain in the soulworld for at least 2500 years, which prefer to remember God in an incorporeal form. Those within the Brahmin family who prefer to remember incorporeal Shiv in the form of a point of light would also derive benefit from it, but not to the extent that the souls which remember 'incorporeal in corporeal' would derive.

With regards,
OGS,
Arjun
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aimée

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Post06 Sep 2006

"THERE SHOULD BE NO QUESTION OF BEING HIGHER OR LOWER THAN EACH OTHER"

CLARIFICATION (Shiva Baba THROUGH Virendra Dev Dixit) OF Murli OF 30.7.90 TAPE 73
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ex-l

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Post06 Sep 2006

Andrey wrote:
ex-l wrote:Andrey can you tell us what it feels likes to be in your stage of conscious and what your Yoga experience is like? When you sit down in meditiation, what happens?

Why sit in meditation? Baba says walk, talk and remember.

Sitting, walking, talking; if I cannot get a straight answer from Andrey, the question is open to anyone.
    Surely the "proof" - of remembering the Incorporeal or the Sakar - is in the experience rather than a debate about scripture or theory?
When Baba says, do not have "any pictures"; is it not, by Advanced Knowledge, that he means "pictures in the mind" ... mental pictures.

The great risk is that instead of having Yoga with whoever, we are "thinking of having Yoga", conceiving what Yoga might be like, holding a mental picture of Lekhraj Kirpalani or Virendra Dev Dixit between ourselves and Shiv ... hypnotising ourselves into believing we are having Yoga and then defending our illusion from being questioned, perceiving that to be an attack. Surely, the difference proves itself in the experience one has ... does remembering ShivBaba [Shiv in Virendra Dev Dixit] lead to actual bodilessness or just a concept that we are in or will reach bodilessness? For those that have been BKs and are now PBKs, does remembering ShivBaba [Shiv in Virendra Dev Dixit] feel different?

PBKs, I would like to ask you to speak more of your experiences. Some of the best posts have been when you did. Especially, I would like to ask you bhais to enable or facilitate a PBK Kunya or Mata to share her experiences online. Perhaps if she writes it, you can type it out for her. Or if she speaks it, you can take notes.
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raviraj

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Post06 Sep 2006

... does remembering ShivBaba lead to actual bodilessness

In my opinion, as we think shall we become. Baba tells us that if we keep on remembering a thief, we will end up becoming a thief. If we keep on remembering a soil (body), our mind will be filled with soil (body-consciousness).' Shiv is such a subtlest soul and such a sadashiv-in-stage that he doesn't have a single thread of body-consciousness because he doesn't have a body of his own. And when that Shiv comes as 'ShivBaba', his nirakari stage renders that vibration (bodilessness). We haven't reached that ripe stage but we are along the way, where we experience up and down, day and night. And this is because of the Kali Yugi vibration, our own deep rooted sanskars of 63 births, our own karmic accounts with other souls and our loads of sins committed in body-consciousness. but Baba says, "in the end, I will take out all your loads and layers and make you 'a soul'. you just remember me alone".
does remembering ShivBaba feel different? I would like to ask you to speak more of your experiences

Yes, personally it makes a huge difference to me because the imagination of flying up above the sky, then going to Paramdham where Supreme Soul resides and then remembering him there, feeling of being there - all of these things (as practiced earlier) will be removed from our intellect. On the basis of Advanced Knowledge when it fits in our intellect that the dweller of nirakari world has come in corporeal in nirakari stage then, it really makes a difference. As Baba says, "Yoga is not a good thing. It is not a good thing. The good thing is 'Yaad'."

For me, remembering Shiv in Paramdham is like making 'Yoga' with him from the Sakar world because for that we need to sit in a posture and then start imagining. But after knowing ShivBaba is still in corporeal, then remembering him becomes easy; just as a child remembering his Father wherever he goes. We won't need to sit and make a posture.

bkdimok

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Post07 Sep 2006

arjun wrote: Those within the Brahmin family who prefer to remember incorporeal Shiv in the form of a point of light would also derive benefit from it, but not to the extent that the souls which remember 'incorporeal in corporeal' would derive.

Dear Arjun Bhai, in my experience remembering God as a point of light gives more power then remembering in a Chariot ( I am not saying that I feel nothing, I am only saying that Yoga is lower). We all are souls, God is the soul. He says in the Murli: remember Me. He does not say: remember Me in a Chariot. Can you give an example that points us to remember God in a Chariot?

With regards,
BK Dimok
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raviraj

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Post07 Sep 2006

Can you give an example that points us to remember God in a Chariot?

dear Brother,

"abhi baap kehete hai ki sirf mujhe Yaad karo" (now Father says remember me alone)
it is the Father who says to remember him alone. but to remember him there should be some peculiarity because not only Father but his children are also a point of light, be it a soul of insects or any. it cannot be identified which point is 'our Father'. so when we remember him just as a point, we are not 'remembering him alone' because all the souls possess that form. Father can only be remembered 'alone' when he comes in a Chariot. there are 6-7 billion chariots and among them there is only one Chariot through which Shiv becomes 'a Father-in-practical'.

it is said,' you are mother, you are Father.' the soul is one but he plays both the parts of mother and Father. he picks up the two main actors of this world drama, Ram and Krishna. through Krishna/Brahma, he played a role of a mother. 'brah'- big and 'ma'- mother = (Brahma)bigmother. and through Ram/Shankar he plays a role of a Father. you must have heard in several Murlis that ' Ram Baap ko kaha jata hai (Father is also called Ram).' it is never said ' Father is also called Krishna' Krishna is a child, the first leaf.

it is never said in any Murli to remember your mother. 'Remember the Father.' it's not that Shiv comes and plays the role of a mother and then goes to Paramdham and then his children remember him there as a point imagining it is our Father. but Father says, ' i will go with you children together. i will go putting you all in my eyes'. If mother was corporeal, then Father also has to be corporeal. our Father is very much in flesh and blood in this Sakar world. we have recognised our mother. now, we should recognise our Father because ' varsa baap se milta hai. (inheritence is taken from the Father).
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andrey

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Post07 Sep 2006

dear ex-l, dear Bansy,

If we could relate our experience of what benefit will it be, is Shiv himself relates His experience about how it is being bodiless, can we not become of the same stage?

Dear Brother BKDimOk,

• You know that (ShivBaba) is in the body of Brahma. So surely you will have to remember here. He is not above (in the Soul World). He has come here at this Confluence Age. Father says, "I have come here to make you so great". You children will remember here. Father says I am in (this) body. Remember me in this body. (24-12-70 pg-3)

• Children ask, “How should we remember (Baba)?" Many children get a doubt whether they should remember ShivBaba in Brahma’s body. Baba says that one should remember the soul. But the body also comes to the mind along with the soul. First body, then soul. Baba is sitting in this body. So the body will also come to the mind surely. (13-5-69 pg-1)

• Those who remember Father above (in the Soul World) follow the path of worship because they do not know the occupation. They do not know his name, fame, country, and time. (14-10-68 pg-1)
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ex-l

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Post07 Sep 2006

Andrey wrote:If we could relate our experience of what benefit will it be, is Shiv himself relates His experience about how it is being bodiless, can we not become of the same stage? ... Remember me in this body. (24-12-70 pg-3) ... (13-5-69 pg-1) ... Those who remember Father above (in the Soul World) follow the path of worship because they do not know the occupation.(14-10-68 pg-1)

Thank you BK Dimok for your honest, personal experience. You are a good example of your beliefs.

Nice side-step Andrey but it is just the usual slippery snake move to avoid answering a straight question with a straight answer. My feeling is that this reveals that you are not having any spiritual experiences beyond a sort of Bhakti love and devotion for Virendra Dev Dixit. Do you feel weightless or bodilessness in meditation? Do you experience the seed-like stage either in the body or out of it? Do you experience the Subtle Regions, either up there or down here? Yes or no? What is your experience?

The same question goes out to all PBKs but is specifically directed at Andrey because the willful ignoring of a reasonable question is disrespectful. It is increasing becoming like speaking to a politician who never answers one's question but just pumps out "party policy" all the time with the Yukti of "if you throw enough, some of it will stick". It is bad PR for what PBK stands for and no benefit for either the giver or the receiver. It is just Murli bashing, as we used to say. Or "dancing on books", as the Tibetan Buddhist call it.

Without see the whole of the 14-10-68 Murli, I must say that I think either you or your Murli dealer is faking the evidence. No Murlis has ever said, "I am Shiv, remember me in the bodily form of Virendra Dev Dixit". Many Murlis have often said encouraged going up to the Soul World and Remembering the Incorporeal. And so, given that you say Virendra Dev Dixit reuses to state that he is god, this largely has to be a construction of some PBKs. If this is a PBK version of a Murli then you will have to state so.

Additionally, please qualify the 1969 and 1970 Murlis. The first looks like to be a Sakar Revised to me - and so would be BapDada [ Shiva in BB talking about BB's body ] and not Virendra Dev Dixit. If it is [allegedly] Shiva Baba in Virendra Dev Dixit speaking, then you have to say.

Can you put the Murlis up in the Encyclopedia or Up/Download section so that we can all read it and check the context?

Thanks.
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john

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Post07 Sep 2006

Andrey wrote:
• Those who remember Father above (in the Soul World) follow the path of worship because they do not know the occupation. They do not know his name, fame, country, and time. (14-10-68 pg-1)


Andrey who is putting the words in the brackets?

It seems to me 'above' the meaning is changed to suit.
If someone wants to prove one way it is said 'above' means stage of soul, when one wants to prove another way it is said to mean 'in the Soul World'.
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atma

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Post08 Sep 2006

Bhai's,

No Murlis has ever said, "I am Shiv, remember me in the bodily form of Veerendra Dev Dixit". Many Murlis have often said encouraged going up to the Soul World and Remembering the Incorporeal. And so, given that you say Veerendra Dev Dixit reuses to state that he is god,


Which Murlis do you have Brother ex-l? Do you have the BK versions then if you do then I am not surprised at your conclusions. I use to come to the same ones so I understand how you feel.

In the Murlis it does mention to remember the incorporeal in the corporeal.

A point of light is a point of light how does one distinguish Shiva from another point of light?

Understanding the Trimurti is important.

Baba (Virendra Dev Dixit) does not say he is God.

atma

bkdimok

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Post08 Sep 2006

atma wrote:A point of light is a point of light how does one distinguish Shiva from another point of light?
atma


Dear Bhai, in my experience, when I am remembering God in His true form i.e. point of light, I go to Paramdham. There is only Shiva in Paramdham now. Also when i remember God I KNOW that i remember God, and He knows that. There is nothing complicated.

As i said before, one can also remember God in a Chariot and receive benefit. But if we can receive more (Yoga, purity, power,happiness etc.) we must use this opportunity. Also God said: consider yourself to be a soul. It is easier to feel yourself soul in the Soul World (for me).

God had mentioned that we should practice 3 stages: 1) soul in the body 2) soul in the thin body 3) soul ( just soul :)) When i remember God in a Chariot max that i can experience is the 2-nd stage (min 1 -st stage)

With regards
BK Dimok
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