The third personality in 2004 as per PBK Murli

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john

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Post13 Jan 2007

I would like to repeat that nobody can/should claim that Shiv enters into him/her. If someone does so, he or she could be termed Hiranyakashyap.

Then who gives the direction to remember Shiva in the body of Chariot Virendra Dev Dixit?
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arjun

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Post14 Jan 2007

John wrote:What does Hiranyakashyap mean in English?
Is there a Murli point to back up this assertion, was it said in Sakar Murli, Avyakt Vani or Murli clarification?

Hiranyakashyap is a demon king mentioned in the Hindu mythology, who is said to have performed tough penance and got a boon from God that he should neither be killed inside his house nor outside it; he should neither be killed in day nor night; he should neither be killed by a man nor a beast. After getting this boon he becomes egotistic and declares himself to be God thinking that he won't get killed ever. He starts atrocities on the pious people. But coincidentally, the child born to him grows up to be the devotee of Vishnu, considered to be the stauch enemy of demons. Hiranyakashyap creates a lot of obstacles for his son to divert him from Vishnu's Bhakti. He even tries to get him killed several times. But Vishnu saves the child.

Finally when the sins of the demon king reach the maximum extent, Vishnu himself incarnates in the form of Narsimha (half lion-half man) by emerging from a pillar in the Palace of Hiranyakashyap, takes Hiranyakashyap to the doorstep of the palace at the time when it is neither day nor night and kills him.

I am not aware if this assertion has been made in the Sakar Murlis or Avyakt Vanis, but it has definitely been mentioned in the Murli clarifications given by ShivBaba through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit. I will find out if any such point is available in the Sakar Murlis.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun
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arjun

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Post14 Jan 2007

John wrote:Then who gives the direction to remember Shiva in the body of Chariot Veerendra Dev Dixit?

Ever since the revelation of Baba Virendra Dev Dixit as the Mukarrar rath (permanent Chariot) of Shiv to some PBKs Baba Virendra Dev Dixit has never claimed to be either Shiv or the Chariot of Shiv. It is on the basis of The Knowledge given through his mouth that some PBKs came to believe him to be Chariot of Shiv and spread the message to others. But PBKs believe that it is Father Shiv who gives the direction to remember Him through the corporeal medium (of Shankar/ Prajapita). The hints for the final/permanent Chariot has been given in the Murlis and Avyakt Vanis. Well, it is another case that the same Murli points or Avyakt Vani points have been used by several other Ex-PBKs also to claim to be the chariots of Shiv. Now, it is upto the individual souls to recognize who is the true Chariot of Shiv.
Regards,
OGS,
Arjun
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john

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Post15 Jan 2007

Arjun
So, you are saying that if it says in Murli clarification, that it is Shiva giving directions, then it is Shiva saying this and not Virendra Dev Dixit, therefore Virendra Dev Dixit is in the clear, because he hasn't said it, even though it has come from his mouth?
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arjun

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Post16 Jan 2007

Dear John Bhai,

Omshanti. If you are viewing the Murli clarifications from a worldly point of view, i.e. as a non-PBK, then the words spoken through the mouth of Baba Virendra Dev Dixit would appear to be his own words, but for me and 'perhaps' other PBKs the words spoken through the mouth of Baba Virendra Dev Dixit are words spoken by God Shiv. Of course, under the existing laws of any country this explanation would not hold water. And until the Brahmin world and outside world recognizes the role of Father Shiv through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit, he, like other citizens of India have to abide by the Indian Laws. And as far as I know he has been doing so, and he even appeared in the Courts whenever he was summoned/expected to attend the legal proceedings.

This criteria applied even in case of Brahma Baba in the beginning of the Yagya.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun
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john

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Post17 Jan 2007

ArjunBhai

Can you quote any instances where Virendra Dev Dixit has said he is 'not' the Chariot of Shiva? So really you are saying that it is Shiva saying that Virendra Dev Dixit is the Chariot and not Virendra Dev Dixit himself saying it in the Murli clarifications?

So if this question came up in a Q&A with Baba, then if it was Virendra Dev Dixit answering he would say 'no' and if it was Shiva answering he would say 'yes'. Has this ever come up in a Q&A with Baba and what was the answer?

shivsena

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Post18 Jan 2007

John wrote:Can you quote any instances where Veerendra Dev Dixit has said he is 'not' the Chariot of Shiva? So really you are saying that it is Shiva saying that Veerendra Dev Dixit is the Chariot and not Veerendra Dev Dixit himself saying it in the Murli clarifications? So if this question came up in a Q&A with Baba, then if it was Veerendra Dev Dixit answering he would say 'no' and if it was Shiva answering he would say 'yes'. Has this ever come up in a Q&A with Baba and what was the answer?

Dear john Bhai.
That is a very valid and logical deduction about ''who is speaking through' the Chariot''. It would be very interesting to know, how Baba responds to your query.

Shivsena.
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arjun

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Post05 Feb 2007

Omshanti.

In the recent clarification Murlis ShivBaba (through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) has been quoting some recent Avyakt Vani which says that Africa has begun the real service. This is an indication towards the role of Vaishnavi Devi supposed to be played by a Brahmakumari from the African region. I have not seen the above Avyakt Vani and would try to quote it with the help of nimit Sisters, but in the latest Avykata Vani dated 02.02.07 (pg.3) Avyakt BapDada has once again appreciated the Godly service being done by BKs in Africa. And he has appreciated African BKs not while speaking to a party of BKs from Africa, but while speaking at length to the BKs from Karnataka State of South India.

"Karnaatak vaaley badey tay badee seva yahee kar saktey hain jo Karnaatak kay koi bhi chotey badey koi sthaan nahee rahein jo aapko ulahana devein ki hamaaraa Baap aaya aur hamey aapney soochana nahee dee, sandesh nahee diya. Yah ulahana nahee rah jaaye. Jaisey Africa vaalon nay apnee area ko sandesh deney ka kaarya safal kiya hai. BapDada ko yah kaarya achha lagataa hai, koi ka bhi ulahana nahee rah jaana chaahiye. Aapka kaam hai sandesh dena, vah abhi aavey ya peechey aavey lekin aapney apnaa kaarya sampann kiya."

"The biggest service that the residents of Karnataka can do is that no place, whether small or big should remain in Karnataka, which may complain to you that 'our Father' came and you did not intimate us, you did not give us the message. This complaint should not remain. For example, the residents of Africa have succeeded in giving message in their own area. BapDada likes this task; nobody's complaint should remain. Your job is to give message, whether they come now or later on, but you have accomplished your task."

While all the BK magazines/newspapers/other ways of publicity have been predominantly concentrating on publicizing the service being done by the high profile BK Sisters in the Western countries (which probably invest more funds) Avyakt BapDada has preferred to appreciate the service done by the low profile African continent. Why are BapDada's eyes focussed on Africa?????

Regards,
On Godly service,
Arjun
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arjun

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Post05 Feb 2007

John wrote:Can you quote any instances where Veerendra Dev Dixit has said he is 'not' the Chariot of Shiva? So really you are saying that it is Shiva saying that Veerendra Dev Dixit is the Chariot and not Veerendra Dev Dixit himself saying it in the Murli clarifications?

So if this question came up in a Q&A with Baba, then if it was Veerendra Dev Dixit answering he would say 'no' and if it was Shiva answering he would say 'yes'. Has this ever come up in a Q&A with Baba and what was the answer?

Dear John,

Omshanti. Sorry for the delay in reply. Actually, I had not seen this thread since many days.

As far as I know, whenever anyone asks Baba Virendra Dev Dixit directly or indirectly whether he is the Chariot of Shiva, he denies it. In some of the discussion VCD* I have seen that if someone asks Baba if 'you' have said like this, he refuses. He always says that Baba has said like this or like that in the Murlis. Even most of the PBKs ask him questions saying that Baba has said like this in a Murli, what does it mean? or that BapDada has said like this in the Avyakt Vani, what does it mean?

Someone was telling me recently that in one of the discussion VCD* recorded in the Bombay mini-Madhubans a Brother asked Baba that when you are the seed of all the religions, aren't you directly responsible for all the degradation that takes place, then he immediately replied that you might be the seed of all the religions, I belong to the deity religion. Since I have not seen the above cd, I cannot confirm the veracity of the above incident immediately.

I don't think you would get the answer in affirmative if you ask Baba Virendra Dev Dixit whether he is the Chariot of Shiva? But if you wish I can ask him this question on your behalf.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun
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arjun

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Post07 Feb 2007

John wrote: Can you quote any instances where Veerendra Dev Dixit has said he is 'not' the Chariot of Shiva? So really you are saying that it is Shiva saying that Veerendra Dev Dixit is the Chariot and not Veerendra Dev Dixit himself saying it in the Murli clarifications?

So if this question came up in a Q&A with Baba, then if it was Veerendra Dev Dixit answering he would say 'no' and if it was Shiva answering he would say 'yes'. Has this ever come up in a Q&A with Baba and what was the answer?


Please read the following paragraphs. I hope the answer to your above question is contained in these paragraphs.
Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Extracts of ShivBaba’s Murli [via Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit ] – as narrated to the PBKs

(VIDEO CD NO.297, AUDIO CASSETTE NO.781, DATE-13.9.05, CLARIFICATION OF Murli

DTD. 07.12.66, Haveri Geetapathshala)

Ref. No.VCD*.


......Who are Yadavas and who is the head of the Yadavas? (A Brother said – Shankar is the head) Shankar is the head. When the head of Yadavas is Shankar, then does he accept any God in corporeal form? Does he believe that there is any God in corporeal form? O.K., does he know? (A Brother said – the head must accept) The head of Yadavas is ‘Shankar’. Does Shankar, who is head of Yadavas, know that God has come in this world in one person? (Someone said – He knows). Does He know? O.K., if he knew, then he must also be accepting. (Someone said – No). Doesn’t he accept? Then how do we know – whether he knows or not?

Those worldly gurus also say with pride – Shivoham (I am Shiv). Do they say or not? (Everyone said - they do say) They do not even know, even then they say – Shivoham. We alone are the forms of Shiv. And here, does the head of Yadavas know - who is the corporeal form of Supreme Soul Shiv in this world? (Someone said – Shiv has entered into him only) Has Shiv entered into him! That is OK. Whether He enters into him or not is a different matter; but does he know? (A Brother said – he knows) Does he know? OK, if he knows, then does he accept it? (Someone said – he even accepts it) Does he accept too? OK, did he accept in any cassette that – ShivBaba is present in me? (Someone said – No). OK, have you received any letter? Children keep receiving a lot of letters. Among those children, can any child say – I have received a letter in which he has accepted that this is the corporeal form of God. (Someone said – It is not true) Have you received any email? (Someone said – No) Has he accepted in any email? OK, he has not accepted in any email, he has not accepted in any letter and he has not accepted in the literature also. If any article has been published in the newspaper, he has not accepted in that also. He has not accepted anywhere at all. And have you received any phone call? (Someone said – No) Is there anyone who might have received a phone call and has even recorded the phone talk? So has he accepted? Arey! How can he accept when he does not know at all?

OK, leave the matter of the head of Yadavas. ShivBaba used to come in the body of Brahma. It has been said in the Murlis – I come in the body of Brahma. Does he know – when I come and when I depart? (Someone said – No). Brahma also does not know. But Brahma used to accept. What? That ShivBaba comes in me. What is this? He used to accept, but did he know that who is ShivBaba? (A Brother said – He did not know) Did he know – who is the Supreme Father Supreme Soul Shiv? He used to tell that Shiv comes in me. But did he know that who is Supreme Father Supreme Soul Shiv in this world, who creates heaven, destroys hell and then departs? (A Brother said – He did not know) He did not know. Arey! He did not know, but he used to accept that Shiv is present in me and the head of Yadavas, i.e. Shankar does not accept. (A Brother said – But he knows). Does he know? What is the proof for this? Arey! If he knows, he would even tell, isn’t it? There would be some proof. Should there not be any proof? Whatever is inside would ever come out or not? It would come. Arey! It may come out by mistake. (Someone said – It would come out sometime or the other) Would it come out some time or the other? No, it would never come.

Are Shiv and Shankar different or same? (Everyone said – They are different) Shiv is separate and Shankar is separate. So when both the souls are different, then how can both be considered to be the same? Considering them to be the same means accepting oneself to be ‘Shivoham’ (i.e. I am Shiv). And what does Baba say in the Murlis? What are the ones, who call themselves as Shiv? (Someone said – Hiranyakashyap) They are Hiranyakashyap. So, can the one, who is sitting in the highest section, the one who is sitting in the highest section among the three abodes, be called as Hiranyakashyap? No?...
.

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Note: This is only a draft of the extracts of above-mentioned VCD* for favour of information. Only when the translation of the entire Murli contained in this VCD* is released, that may be considered as the final version. The words shown in italics are Hindi words.
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john

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Post07 Feb 2007

ArjunBhai

Thanks for posting the Murli clarification. If Virendra Dev Dixit makes no claims that Shiva uses him as a Chariot them who is this applied to?
Arjun wrote:No. They become equal to God. Similarly, after the departure of Shiv, the soul of Confluence-Aged Ram or the Confluence-Aged Narayan or Prajapita gets the title of ShivBaba.

Who is Confluence-Aged Narayan or Prajapita?

Also, if no Chariot knows when ShivaBaba enters and it is said ShivaBaba only enters at his will and at no fixed date/time, how was a schedule ever made for giving Murli classes? Was there an actual schedule for Murli classes? How is a schedule made to give Murli clarifications?
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arjun

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Post09 Feb 2007

John wrote:If Veerendra Dev Dixit makes no claims that Shiva uses him as a Chariot them who is this applied to?

When PBKs mention 'Chariot of Shiv', it refers to Baba Virendra Dev Dixit only. I think the following Murli point could also be used to explain this denial by Baba Virendra Dev Dixit:

"I am your most beloved obedient Father also, teacher also, and servant also. When big royal personalities sign below, they write Minto, Curzon, etc ... They never write their name as Lord." (Revised Sakar Murli dated 28.06.06, pg 2&3 published by BKs and narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba)

Confluence-Aged Narayan or Prajapita or Shankar is the same personality. It is the above 'Chariot of Shiv' who is going to get revealed to the world as the World Father and who would survive the destruction along with four and a half lakh other persons to commence the Golden Age and give birth to children like Radha and Krishna.
Also, if no Chariot knows when ShivaBaba enters and it is said ShivaBaba only enters at his will and at no fixed date/time, how was a schedule ever made for giving Murli classes? Was there an actual schedule for Murli classes? How is a schedule made to give Murli clarifications?

In India, the morning time has always been preferably used for spiritual studies. In keeping with this tradition, the Murlis have generally been narrated in the mornings since the beginning of the Yagya. But in case of the above Chariot of Shiv, i.e. Baba Virendra Dev Dixit, Murli is narrated by Father Shiv through him any time of the day (from Amrit Vela to evening) since he generally visits the PBK gitapathshalas and mini-Madhubans unannounced. But generally, the clarification Murlis are narrated by Father Shiv through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit during the class time of the concerned gitapathshala or mini-Madhubans. The class time varies from town to town depending on the local needs/conditions.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun
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andrey

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Post17 Feb 2007

I have seen Sister Vedanti on stage. She spoke just few words, but even then a lot of purity could be felt and concern to put The Knowledge into practice without talking too much.

She said that when she came into knowledge she used to study philosophy; the Vedas, the Gita, etc. (in the Murli it is said that English speakers call Bhakti philosophy). So Brahma Baba or Shiva inside told her than now there is end of this study. Now Baba via Virendra Dev Dixit says that Vedanti means Ved - anti, the one who puts end to Vedas.

peter

not sure

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2007-2009

Post15 Apr 2007

What changes take place in 2007-2009?
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pbktrinityshiva

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Post15 Apr 2007

Bhai andrey,

where did you see her?

PBK ts Bhai
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