Meaning of BapDada

Johnbhai you can find the same topic on: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/adidev-shivbaba
click search "BapDada".

I will write again about this topic when I have more time.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/adidev-ShivBaba
click search "BapDada".

Thank you surya2037, but that is not XBK-chat and posts are only viewable to members

Thanks for your reply shivsena, I'll take your questions in good faith, (quick reply). BTW I am not upset but just want to know your intentions.

Dear slammer Bhai.

Since you have openly asked about my intentions, i will be very open with you. My intentions are simple and clear, just like any other inquisitive PBK. I want to know the truth - the absolute truth and nothing but the truth - that was the prime reason why i came into this Godly knowledge 22 years ago. I was always interested in knowing the how and why of our existence and always wanted to unravel the mysteries of the creator and his wonderful creation. But now even after 22 years of deeply studying this Godly knowledge (basic + advance), i find that there are still many lacunas and many aspects of The Knowledge which have not been very clear and we are still groping in ignorance and that is what i have been trying to understand by discussing the deeper points of gems of knowledge with like minded PBKs.

i know you will say that why not ask ShivBaba about it when he is with us. i have been doing the same and most of the time his answers are so ambigious and out of the way that i find myself more confused than before. i have got a whole book of question and answers by Baba and i have been watching his dailogue cassettes with the PBKs very closely but most of the time i think that it is Krishna's soul who is interfering and answering to make the students confused (it is his part in the drama--and Baba has also acknowledged this on many occasions). The answers are just not in tune with the omnipotent and omniscient Godfather ShivBaba solving our queries. (A fact that most of the PBKs are still ignorant about and do not agree with but i have ample proofs from the Murlis and Vanis to prove that the present body of Virendra Dev Dixit is the instrument of Krishna's soul while the part of bap-teacher-satguru is yet to start in the near future in the P. Sangamyug through' the same body.)

To tell you very frankly, i was on the verge of leaving this Godly knowledge and returning to lokik life in 1991-92 when i first attended the opening ceremony of the BK Global hospital in Mt. Abu. That is when i realised that ShivBaba has never said in Murlis to open a hospital for bodily needs. This is a spiritual university founded by the spiritual Father in 1937 and he always hinted to open spiritual centers to teach spiritual knowledge, so from that day i became a back-seat student in BK center and was not interested in Godly service anymore though i always attended the Murlis classes daily as i felt that all the answers can be found in the Murlis of Supreme Soul Shiva. In 1993 i received Advanced Knowledge from a friend, and my further experiences are on the site www.ShivBaba.c a ( click to open link), then again i received a jolt in 1998 when there was a division in the Advance Party and one Brother Dashrath Patel from ahmedabad formed a vishnu-party and conspired with many former PBKs to put Baba in jail. This again set me thinking about how can a omnipotent GodFather be put behind bars and many queries again started arising in my mind.

I was in such turmoil that i talked to Maa Jagdamba asking that if there is so much hatred and jealousy and conspiracy in the Godly family, then please allow me to go back to lokik world (which i found much better than the PBK family). She replied, "go back if you can but every PBK has to fight his own battle to make it to the rosary of 108''. She said in Hindi, ''pahele padayee, phir ladayee, phir rajayee'' (meaning first the study of Murlis, then the battle to establish the truth, i.e. to reveal the Father, and then the kingship). This (subtle) war of words (Gyan) is going to begin within the Advance Party (seed souls) first and then will spread to the BKs and then to the outside world (to form 9 groups just as there are nine main religions in the Kalpa tree). So again i was at crossroads. My mind wanted to leave but my intellect wanted me to stay. And so the only way to stay in the PBK family was to involve oneself in service and research of Murlis and that is what i have been doing ever since, reading the Murlis and churning the gems of knowledge and sharing it with my fellow PBKs.

When the internet came to India in 1998, and i realised that this is a powerful medium to spread Baba's message in the world and interact with BKs and PBKs world wide to share our views about this wonderful knowledge, i started putting the Advanced Knowledge on the net with Baba's consent and the site http://www.ShivBaba.com was created. Ever since i have been translating the Gyan in English and putting the pages on the net with the help of my other PBK Brothers and researching and studying the Murlis deeply and exchanging views with them. To tell you very frankly, i am just amazed at the amount of knowledge hidden in the gems (Murli points) which have still not been touched in the cassettes and cds, and which i shall be sharing on this site as our discussion progresses. That is what i am looking forward to. That is all.

OK om shanti----shivsena.

Wow!

but I have ample proofs from the Murlis and Vanis to prove that the present body of Veerendra Dev Dixit is the instrument of Krishna's soul while the part of bap-teacher-satguru is yet to start in the near future in the P. Sangamyug through' the same body.

Can you present any here (proofs), with possibly Murli dates, so everyone can check?

there was a division in the Advance Party and one Brother Dashrath Patel from ahmedabad formed a Vishnu-party and conspired with many former PBKs to put Baba in jail

We have touched on this topic of Vishnu Party slightly, but if any PBK knows about this, then they have not come forward with it so far. Can you expain more about this please?

but most of the time I think that it is Krishna's soul who is interfering and answering to make the students confused (it is his part in the drama--and Baba has also acknowledged this on many occasions)

Can you let us know where Baba has acknowledged this?

When you say Baba in this instance, who are you referring to?

and then she replied---"go back if you can--but every PBK has to fight his own battle to make it to the rosary of 108'' --she said in Hindi--''pahele padayee--phir ladayee--phir rajayee''---(meaning first the study of Murlis--then the battle to establish the truth ie to reveal the Father--and then the kingship)--and this (subtle)war of words (Gyan) is going to begin within the Advance Party (seed souls) first and then will spread to the BKs and then to the outside world--(to form 9 groups just as there are nine main religions in the Kalpa tree)

This is the PBK called 'Mummy' right? Well, if that's her response to you, then I presume that is the advice she is know taking for herself?

Wow!

Dear john Bhai. Thanks for your appreciation.

Can you present any here (proofs), with possibly Murli dates, so everyone can check?

Yes---i will be giving the dates of Murlis as and when i quote the Murli points

We have touched on this topic of Vishnu Party slightly, but if any PBK knows about this, then they have not come forward with it so far. Can you expain more about this please?

I do not have the details ---also it is a very complex issue to be discussed on the net---if someday we can meet face to face then i would be most willing to share all that i know about it.

Can you let us know where Baba has acknowledged this?

When you say Baba in this instance, who are you referring to?

Baba has said this many times in personal discussions, when PBKs have asked Baba that the cassettes and cds sometimes seem contradictory--so he said that it is Krishna who interferes which leads to ambiguity in Advanced Knowledge.

This is the PBK called 'Mummy' right? Well, if that's her response to you, then I presume that is the advice she is know taking for herself?

Yes---that is what she is doing now even though she has gone underground---she is just creating an illusion to take test of all pbks--otherwise how will the PBKs be numberwise.

Ok---om shanti----it was a pleasure to answer your queries.
shivsena.

Johnbhai you can find the same topic on: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/adidev-ShivBaba. click search "BapDada".I will write again about this topic when I have more time.

Dear surya Bhai.

I do not understand why such a big issue is being made about repetition of same points on different forums on different sites. How do i know you are a member of adidev-shivbaba yahoo group where i have been regularly posting my queries and views for last one year but i do not think i ever heard from you on the yahoo group, only 3 bhais replied to my emails. You never shared your views and comments with others. There are 44 members on the yahoo group and only a few 2-3 were really active. Anyway, i just want to give you a small e.g. if i have a set of 30-40 queries, and i happen to meet 10-20 PBKs personally, then i would ask them the same set of queries as each query would be new to a new PBK Brother.

Similarly, if i am a member of a 2-3 different forums, and i do not know who are the members of the particular forum, then i would repeat the same set of queries in 3 different forums. You would do the same, would you not??? So what is wrong in that? Is it harming anybody if i am repeating the same queries?? I may have read a Murli point with a different perspective a few years ago and now when my intellect has matured my view may be different than what it was a few years ago. So, i think likewise with my PBK Brothers. That is what i am sharing and that is what this forum is all about, is it not????

OK om shanti---shivsena.
===============

Quick reply. have read your posts Shivsena and thank you for your integrity, as to the validity of your questions. The main thing I can briefly comment on is that, as it seems you are aware anyway of some contradictions in the clarifications you have nothing to worry about. 'To know the differance, makes the differance'. The main thing now concerning PBKs is patience. You have a remarkable overview of the PBK world. This is to your advantage. There is really no point in getting too 'jumpy' about any inconsistancies you percieve in the Murlis.

The main thing is that you can percieve them,. My thoughts at this time are 'watch and observe'. I am catching from your posts the desire for 'absolute truth'. My bet is that the 'truth' is where my heart is. This implies that at this moment faith is definately required. It is the holy swans who can discriminate. If Krisna as you think is speaking in the clarifications then what of it, it is a classroom after all is it not? Every soul has the right to have their say, no less the soul of Dada Lekraj/Krisna. It may be distracting, and perhaps a little confusing but at the end of the day we will have the truth drop by drop. Much better to have the truth this way before the flood gates open, or when the war breaks out.

Hope to enjoy more discussion .

but I have ample proofs from the Murlis and Vanis to prove that the present body of Veerendra Dev Dixit is the instrument of Krishna's soul while the part of bap-teacher-satguru is yet to start in the near future in the P. Sangamyug through' the same body.

In this are you saying that Shiva is not yet playing a part through Virendra Dev Dixit and it is just the soul of Lekhraj Kirpalani/Krishna entering?

In this are you saying that Shiva is not yet playing a part through Veerendra Dev Dixit and it is just the soul of Dada Lekhraj/Krishna entering?

Dear john Bhai.

Yes, that is exactly what i am trying to say, that Supreme Soul Shiva cannot play the part of Bap-teacher-satguru during the shooting period, i.e. from 1989 to 2009 as the Advanced Knowledge which started in real earnest in 1989 corresponds to the beginning of the shooting of copper and iron ages in the subtle drama, and the BK and the PBK world both are on the declining path in a subtle manner ever since. It is true that when any PBK or BK take this Godly knowledge first, then he has a satopradhan stage in the Yagya and as time progresses he passes through rajopradhan and finally through tamopradhan stage towards the end of Kaliyugi shooting. It is the same rule for everybody including Krishna's soul in the body of Virendra Dev Dixit.

So i am 100% sure about the fact that Supreme Soul Shiva is not playing His part at present. Only when Ram reaches the 100% incorporeal stage and merges with Shivbap and Brahma(Krishna) stops going to mt abu. Then and only then the role of ShivBaba(Shiv+Ram) will start as bap-teacher-satguru.

This is what i sincerely feel as per the Murli points (combined with logic and common sense).

OK om shanti---shivsena.
===============

There is really no point in getting too 'jumpy' about any inconsistancies you percieve in the Murlis. My bet is that the 'truth' is where my heart is. This implies that at this moment faith is definately required. It is the holy swans who can discriminate.

Dear slammer Bhai.

I am not at all jumpy or impatient. I just want to share my viewpoint with my Brothers and create an awareness amongst the PBKs that it is OK to listen to the cassettes and cds but in the process the PBKs have been ignoring reading the Murlis and churning the gems of knowledge therein. And it is the study of Murlis (padayee) which are finally going to decide the rosary beads of 108 souls beacuse it was Ram's soul in the first place who came to know his part as no.1 soul. Only by reading the Murlis, so likewise each of the 108 souls will have to realise their own part just by reading and churning the Murlis and not just by listening to the cds and VCD*. This is what i sincerely feel.

Regarding the statement about "faith". I feel that in Godly knowledge there is no room for faith in Gyani's dictionary, as i feel that this word "faith'' denotes some kind of Bhakti. And Shivbap has many times said in Murlis that ''Bhakti is very different from Gyan''. ''Bhakti is a different subject and Gyan is a different subject".

I agree with you, that those who have the third eye of knowledge to see that it is Krishna who is now playing the part through Virendra Dev Dixit need not be perturbed--they just have to be an observer and let the subtle drama unfold itself--because each soul has to play his role in the drama--but those who know this secret in advance through Murli points will certainly be much better off, than those who are ignorant about this fact---that is all i have to say.

shivsena.
======

OK Om Shanti

only arjun Bhai and sometimes peeu Bhai and saurabh Bhai replied to my emails. You never shared your views and comments with others.

Hi divine Brother Shivsena,

I can see you dedication and love for the study.
As regard the Yahoo Group, I don't share much because almost all you posts over there are direct discussions/questions aiming to the Brothers you mentioned above, so I feel that I should not interfere, but now I may change my mind and share more thoughts.
Also I have no much time to participate as I live in two countries at same time.
But I will...

kind regards,

surya

I have got a whole book of question and answers by Baba

Dear Brother Shivsena,

Can you share with us your "whole book" of questions and answers here at this forum ( in "Q&A with Baba")? This would save Babas time - as we all send questions to Baba and your selections must be a good one to look at.

omshanti.

Yes, that is exactly what I am trying to say, that Supreme Soul Shiva cannot play the part of Bap-teacher-satguru during the shooting period, i.e. from 1989 to 2009 as the Advanced Knowledge which started in real earnest in 1989 corresponds to the beginning of the shooting of copper and iron ages in the subtle drama, and the BK and the PBK world both are on the declining path in a subtle manner ever since.....So I am 100% sure about the fact that Supreme Soul Shiva is not playing His part at present. Only when Ram reaches the 100% incorporeal stage and merges with Shivbap and Brahma(Krishna) stops going to mt abu. Then and only then the role of ShivBaba(Shiv+Ram) will start as bap-teacher-satguru.

Dear Brother,
Omshanti. Based on your above statement, which you seem to have made for the first time in clear terms:
1. I wish to know as to your beliefs about the role of Incorporeal Supreme Father Shiv through Sevakram (Brahma Baba's partner) from 1936/37 to 1942, through the two mothers from 1942-1947/48, through Dada Lekhraj (Brahma Baba) from 1947/48 to 18.1.69 and through the soul of Ram (Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) from 1969 to 1989. Whether Father Shiv entered into them during those periods respectively. If not, who narrated the Murlis/knowledge that was received through those media during those periods?

2. If you believe that Father Shiv is not narrating The Knowledge through the body of the soul of Ram (Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) then who is running the entire show in the Advance Party? Is it the soul of Ram (Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) or the soul of Krishna (Dada Lekhraj)?

3. When you meet the body of Baba Virendra Dev Dixit, whom do you think to be meeting - is it the soul of Shiv or Ram or Krishna? When you discuss The Knowledge/querries with Baba, whom do you attribute the answers to from among the above three souls?

4. If you feel that Father Shiv has not entered into Baba Virendra Dev Dixit so far, then how do you remember Father Shiv? Is it as an incorporeal point of light in Paramdham or through any other human body?

5. You have so far not given your own views as to who is Bap+Dada in this thread. I assume it is the soul of Ram + the soul of Krishna respectively as per your beliefs?

With regards,
OGS,
Arjun

Dear Brother,
Omshanti. Based on your above statement, which you seem to have made for the first time in clear terms:

Dear Arjun Bhai.
I had made these comments before also in yahoo group too; but you have not responded.

1. I wish to know as to your beliefs about the role of Incorporeal Supreme Father Shiv through Sevakram (Brahma Baba's partner) from 1936/37 to 1942, through the two mothers from 1942-1947/48, through Dada Lekhraj (Brahma Baba) from 1947/48 to 18.1.69 and through the soul of Ram (Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit) from 1969 to 1989. Whether Father Shiv entered into them during those periods respectively. If not, who narrated the Murlis/knowledge that was received through those media during those periods?

I have got no different beliefs from yours in this respect.

2. If you believe that Father Shiv is not narrating The Knowledge through the body of the soul of Ram (Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit) then who is running the entire show in the Advance Party? Is it the soul of Ram (Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit) or the soul of Krishna (Dada Lekhraj) ?

i think as per the Murlis during the shooting period neither the Supreme Soul Shiva or soul of Ram can be narrating The Knowledge. it is only soul of Krishna (Bharat) which is narrating the Advanced Knowledge as per his churning and hence the ambiguity at times in various cds and cassettes.

3. When you meet the body of Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit, whom do you think to be meeting - is it the soul of Shiv or Ram or Krishna? When you discuss The Knowledge/querries with Baba, whom do you attribute the answers to from among the above three souls?

When i am meeting Virendra Dev Dixit then i have no doubts that all 3 souls are present in that body; but when i am discussing The Knowledge i feel that it is Krishna who is answering; the other two are observers.

4. If you feel that Father Shiv has not entered into Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit so far, then how do you remember Father Shiv? Is it as an incorporeal point of light in Paramdham or through any other human body?

I sincerely feel that once Dada Lekhraj has left his body in 1969 then all 3 souls viz. shiv-ram-krishna are there in the same body and there is no question of Shiv entering or leaving the body of Virendra Dev Dixit.

I am not able to remember Shiv as a point of light in Virendra Dev Dixit's forehead; so i just remember Rambap in his 100% incorporeal stage with Shivbap along with him. i have never remembered Shivbap as a point of light in Paramdham nor in any other body. i always look at the combined form of Rambap+Shivbap.

5. You have so far not given your own views as to who is Bap+Dada in this thread. I assume it is the soul of Ram + the soul of Krishna respectively as per your beliefs?

Yes, Rambap+Krishna (Dada) are avaykt BapDada.

shivsena

Omshanti. For the benefit of everyone, I am quoting below some extracts from a Discussion CD on the topic of the role of Dada Lekhraj Brahma's soul through the body of Dadi Gulzar.
With regards,
OGS,
Arjun
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Disc. CD-65-Part-II-English
25.02.05, Saturday, Gorakhpur, Dated 18.01.06, Discussion.

.....(Someone asked – It is said that Brahma loses faith repeatedly, isn’t it? He loses faith in what?) It has been said that Brahma comes in The Cycle of faith and faithlessness more than everyone else. He comes in The Cycle of birth and death more than anyone else. (Someone asked – Then how can he narrate such a good Vani of dharana, i.e. versions related to inculcation of virtues at Mt. Abu, if he loses faith?) How can he narrate the Vani of dharana? Even sanyasis (monks) are very expert in narrating the Vani of dharana, in narrating Vani. And their inculcation is also very good. Dharana, i.e. inculcation is not a big thing.

(Someone asked – In the Avyakt Vani the introduction to Father has also been given, isn’t it?) The introduction to Father, which has been given in the Avyakt Vanis, has been given sitting in whose remembrance? Who enables him to narrate that Vani? How did the lyricists of the films, songwriters of the cinema get such good ideas that all their songs are becoming applicable in the Confluence Age? Who gives this idea? (Someone said – ShivBaba) It is ShivBaba, isn’t it?

So similarly whatever is being spoken through the mouth of Brahma, that soul of Brahma sits in a deep remembrance when it enters into Gulzar Dadi. Baba says – you are with me only upto that time when you are in remembrance. The more you remember me, the more I am with you. So when Baba is with us, then He will not allow us to speak any version against the Murli.

So it is certain about the Vani of Brahma that there is not even a single version of Vani, which crosses (i.e. goes against) the versions of Murli. Otherwise the versions spoken by any two persons will definitely cross each other somewhere or the other. But the Avyakt Vani, which is being narrated through the mouth of Brahma, in those Avyakt Vanis, there is not even a single sentence which opposes or crosses the versions of Murlis.

What does it prove? It proves that the soul of Brahma enters into Gulzar Dadi, but who enables it to speak? ShivBaba. That is why it should not strike the intellect that - Brahma has narrated such a Vani of dharana, Brahma has tolerated so much. Arey, it was not Brahma who tolerated so much. Had he possessed that much power of tolerance, i.e. 100 percent, then why did he not show that power of tolerance in the 63 births? He could have become a storehouse of power of tolerance and the world could have been transformed, isn’t it?

That is why Baba says – Some are the followers of Brahma, and some are the followers of Baba. It means that some are the followers of Baba and some are the followers of Mama. They keep praising their virtues only. ShivBaba does not come to their intellect at all. Now some such souls have emerged who keep praising the virtues of Didi, Dadi, and Dadas only. It does not strike their intellect as to who is ShivBaba? They completely forget that living power named Shiv. ...

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Note: This is only a draft of the extracts of above-mentioned Disc.CD for favour of nformation. Only when the translation of the entire Murli contained in this Disc.CD is released, that may be considered as the final version. The words in italics are Hindi words.