Meaning of BapDada

BapDada from the point of view of the Advanced Knowledge, is that Shivbap and Rambap are two souls like one. They are both nothing without the other and with one another it becomes the Almighty Father, this combination does not happen with Shivbap and Dada. It becomes the form of a Mother.

BapDada is a single personality too. Like in Shankar 3 souls paly part, but personality is one.When you look at it it looks like one. Souls cannot be seen. One can have knowledge and on the basis of understanding differentiate, but BapDada are also combined, they cannot be separated.

One should not try to separate and differenciate. What is important is to understand who is BapDada as personality who can be seen through the eyes in corporeal form. With the eyes of knowledge we can see nirakar BapDada inside and Avyakt BapDada through Gulzar Dadi - Avyakt means the one who cannot be seen through these eyes.

VCD* No.581, Audio Cassette No.1067, dated 25.12.06, Calcutta,
Clarification of Murlis dated 23.6.67 and 24.6.67
Ref. No.VCD*., Email dtd.11.03.07

Who is the first Brahma? Shiv is the Father. When He enters, He says – whichever body I enter, what should it be named as? (It should be named) as Brahma. So in whomsoever He enters to lay the seed is also Brahma. That is why how many Brahmas are famous? Five are famous. Among them one is Prajapita and rest of the Brahmas are numberwise. So whom should we follow? We have to follow Prajapita Brahma. That is why the Suryavanshi children always consider themselves to be in a path of household (pravrittimarg).

The picture of Ardhanaareeshwar is always in front of them. They view BapDada in a combined form. It remains in the intellect that – the soul of Brahma, which plays a part of tolerance and the Father, who plays the part of power to face situations – both play a part in combined form, which is called ‘Ardhanaareeshwar’. If one remains in the household then he/she likes pleasure. All the other religious fathers belong to the path of renunciation (nivrittimarg). They do not prosper in a household. It is Guru Nanak alone, who sustained household, but even his household is an impure household. The Father alone comes and teaches pure household.

Who is the first Brahma? Shiv is the Father. When He enters, He says – whichever body I enter, what should it be named as? (It should be named) as Brahma. So in whomsoever He enters to lay the seed is also Brahma. That is why how many Brahmas are famous? Five are famous. Among them one is Prajapita and rest of the Brahmas are numberwise. So whom should we follow? We have to follow Prajapita Brahma.

If we have to follow Prajapita Brahma, then how can we attain the aakari stage and nirakari stage, as prajapita Brahma is always saakari and never aakari and nirakari !!!!!!!!

Also this point from cassette is in direct contradiction from the Murli point which says that we have to follow Father and try to attain the stages of sakari, aakari and nirakari in one second. Also it would be better if we quote only Murli points of Shivbap and not cassettes as the baseline reference in the ongoing debate, as cassettes are contradictory to each other and the whole Advanced Knowledge is subject to refining and changing from time to time.

shivsena.

It it said that Prajapita is needed in corporeal (Sakar). That means in a corporeal body because Brahmins are created in corporeal world in corporeal bodies. In the Subtle Region, Brahmins are not created. It is not said about the stage. We should not become Avyakt (akari) like Brahma Baba when leaving the body. We should become Avyakt and nirakar whilst in the body. Prajapita becomes akari and nirakari whilst in the body.

Whom should we follow Brahma Baba or Prajapita?

Also it would be better if we quote only Murli points of Shivbap and not cassettes as the baseline reference in the ongoing debate, as cassettes are contradictory to each other and the whole Advanced Knowledge is subject to refining and changing from time to time.

Allow me to humbly bring a simple matter to your attention, this is the PBK section.

PBKs study 'Advanced Knowledge' this means the clarification of Murlis spoken by ShivBaba via Virendra Dev Dixit. PBKs have an interest in the entire knowledge not just certain sections. For me the fact that the Advanced Knowledge undergoes refinement brings me intense pleasure.

It is also a hint that the Advanced Knowledge is a 'living' source of intelligence. The source of that intelligence may be questioned and answered face to face.

Allow me to humbly bring a simple matter to your attention, this is the PBK section.

Does this mean that we cannot quote any Murli points and that we have to quote only from the cassettes and VCD*.

PBKs study 'Advanced Knowledge' this means the clarification of Murlis spoken by ShivBaba via Veerendra Dev Dixit. PBKs have an interest in the entire knowledge not just certain sections. For me the fact that the Advanced Knowledge undergoes refinement brings me intense pleasure.

For me any knowledge which undergoes refinement, is still far away from the absolute truth and should be taken with a open mind, and not to be considered as the last word.

It is also a hint that the Advanced Knowledge is a 'living' source of intelligence. The source of that intelligence may be questioned and answered face to face.

If Advanced Knowledge is ''living source of intelligence'', then what are Murlis of ShivBaba; how would you define them; and are we not questioning that intelligence in this PBK section; and who is going to give us the correct direction in case ambiguity occurs between Murli points and Advanced Knowledge.

shivsena.

Does this mean that we cannot quote any Murli points and that we have to quote only from the cassettes and VCD*.

From the above posts I can make out that you have suggested that only Sakar Murlis published by the BKs should be quoted, but Buttonslammer Bhai has replied saying that since this is a PBK section the Advanced Knowledge as available in the Clarification Murlis could also be quoted here. But he has not at all said that Murli points cannot be quoted.

Since this is a PBK section and its participants include BKs as well as ex-BKs, we can have healthy discussions on all kinds of knowledge available in the Brahmin family like Sakar Murlis (narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba), Avyakt Vanis (nrrated by Avyakt BapDada through Gulzar Dadiji) and the Carification Murlis (being narrated by ShivBaba through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) without prohibiting anyone from quoting any kind of text.

I would personally have no objection even if anyone quotes from the texts of other religions just to make a comparison between those texts and the basic (BK)/advance (PBKs) knowledge. I feel that cordial relationship is more important than these discussions related to knowledge. We are not going to climb higher the ranks of rosaries by scoring points over one another. This forum should be a place where one could come and relax for a few minutes.

With regards,
OGS,
Arjun

I would personally have no objection even if anyone quotes from the texts of other religions just to make a comparison between those texts and the basic (BK)/advance (PBKs) knowledge.

Its food for another topic but since it was revealled that Lekhraj Kirpalani used to read from scriptures and interpret them in the old days, along with chanting Om, I see no objection to this either.

If we can only start with what we know he/they did at that time we might have a better appreciate, pro and con, of what is going on now. Many Double Foreigners lack a knowledge and understanding of the classic Hindu/Vaishnavite scriptures and mythology that the BKWSU is rooted in.

Bit of a bit job but if someone cares to do it, it will be more productive in the long run.

From the above posts I can make out that you have suggested that only Sakar Murlis published by the BKs should be quoted, but Buttonslammer Bhai has replied saying that since this is a PBK section the Advanced Knowledge as available in the Clarification Murlis could also be quoted here. But he has not at all said that Murli points cannot be quoted.

Dear arjun Bhai.

If you can read slammer Bhai's mind and vouch for him, then please answer as to why he has to remind me humbly that this is 'PBK section' (in what connection). It was as if i did not know. I too, humbly, queried him back. So what is there to get upset about? In a debate between the BKs, ex-bks, and PBKs only, the the Murli points of Shivbap are considered as authentic gems of knowledge. The rest are just hear-say evidences.

shivsena.

the rest are just hear-say evidences.

Thanks for your reply and views.
Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

From the above posts I can make out that you have suggested that only Sakar Murlis published by the BKs should be quoted, but Buttonslammer Bhai has replied saying that since this is a PBK section the Advanced Knowledge as available in the Clarification Murlis could also be quoted here. But he has not at all said that Murli points cannot be quoted.

If you can read slammer Bhai's mind and vouch for him, then please answer as to why he has to remind me humbly that this is 'PBK section' (in what connection). It was as if I did not know. I too, humbly, queried him back. So what is there to get upset about? In a debate between the BKs, ex-BKs, and PBKs only, the the Murli points of Shivbap are considered as authentic gems of knowledge. The rest are just hear-say evidences.

Yes indeed, Arjun has correctly interpreted my every meaning and intention from my previous posting. It is simply an indication of the stage of 'Manmanabhav' or unity in purity.

If Advanced Knowledge is ''living source of intelligence'', then what are Murlis of ShivBaba.

The so-called Murlis of paper and ink you refer to are 'The scriptures'. Baba has said even in the Sakar Murlis "there is no essence in the scriptures". Why is this said? Because the one who is essenceful is no longer speaking those Murlis. The times have changed.

When the One who spoke them is sitting in front, then what is the need of ink and paper Murlis? Besides, although you may have studied the ink and paper Murlis very intensely for several years, there is actually no benefit in that. "Ravan is shown to be holding the scriptures". Baba/Virendra Dev Dixit has mentioned that although Ravan is intelligent, the form is also demonic. The opinions are many, and lead to degradation and sorrow. The wheels of Bhakti continue to spin. Perhaps you should declare yourself head of a new group, 'The Scripture Party'.

The so-called Murlis of paper and ink you refer to are 'The scriptures'. Baba has said even in the Sakar Murlis "there is no essence in the scriptures". Why is this said? Because the one who is essenceful is no longer speaking those Murlis. The times have changed.

This is what i call double standard of PBKs; they will quote all Murli points (of paper and ink) in their debate with BKs to prove that ShivBaba is now playing the part through Rambap but they themselves will never read or churn the Murlis nor discuss the finer points of Murlis amongst themselves. They will just nod their heads to cassettes and VCD* (whether they understand it or not). They will print all Murli points under different headings in the form of Gita khand 1, 2, 3 and Gita Locket for BKs to read, but they will turn a blind eye to what is written therein (completely ignoring Shivbap's gems of knowledge) and are just content to listen to Krishna's clarification, completely oblivious of the degradation and degeneration of the Advance Party (vis-a-vis the BKs) from 1989 onwards.

shivsena.

This is what I call double standard of PBKs; they will quote all Murli points (of paper and ink) in their debate with BKs to prove that ShivBaba is now playing the part through Rambap but they themselves will never read or churn the Murlis nor discuss the finer points of Murlis amongst themselves. They will just nod their heads to cassettes and VCD* (whether they understand it or not). They will print all Murli points under different headings in the form of Gita khand 1, 2, 3 and Gita Locket for BKs to read, but they will turn a blind eye to what is written therein (completely ignoring Shivbap's gems of knowledge) and are just content to listen to Krishna's clarification, completely oblivious of the degradation and degeneration of the Advance Party (vis-a-vis the BKs) from 1989 onwards. This is what I call double standard of PBKs

Not so, Baba has mentioned that 'if you have considered yourself to have understood the Trimurti and have recognised ShivBaba, then you must consider it your duty to inform your family, if you do not do so then they will be dissapointed that you did not tell them earlier'. So it is srimat to inform other family members of the new roles.

In any case, the Sakar Murlis can now be understood to have been spoken not to the Brahmins surrounding Brahma Baba/Lekraj at that time but to other souls, and speaking of future roles and events. This can only be understood by listening to the present day clarifications, without which the Sakar Murlis are impregnable. To say you have gone to the depths of the ocean of knowledge and emerged with the gems of knowledge by studying the Sakar Murlis is simply far fetched in the extreme. Why is this so? Because otherwise you would have emerged the gems of knowledge by yourself.

It is only the part of ShivBaba to present the tray of the jewels of knowledge, ie the Advanced Knowledge. The double standards that you mention are more in line with the souls who first possess a 'stone like intellect'', they then take hold of the Advanced Knowledge, and make out they are more intelligent than the one who made them intelligent in the first place.

they themselves will never read or churn the Murlis nor discuss the finer points of Murlis amongst themselves.

Again, not so, most PBKs have spent several years previously studying Sakar Murlis. Those who did not, ie came direct to advance get to hear relevant Sakar Murli points in the classroom when the study is taking place.

nor discuss the finer points of Murlis amongst themselves.

This tells me you are so out of touch with the PBK family. Each time I go to visit Kampil, Faroukabhad, Delhi, Chandigar, Hyderabad, Calcutta, Bangalore, Bombay, Varanassi, TP I always find plenty of discussion going on, and also plenty of discussion in all the GitaPathsalas I visited; discussion, enthusiasm and experienced souls, all enjoying Advanced Knowledge and living the household path. You have no idea.

completely oblivious of the degradation and degeneration of the Advance Part

This is the best part, you accuse other PBKs of performing subtle Bhakti. However, your notion of 'RamshivBaba' you keep propagandising is in fact Ultimate Bhakti, why? Because you remember the perfect form of ' Ramshivbaba' in the future.

Just a small detail you left out here, the future does not exist in a corporeal form. It exists only in your own imagination. You cannot describe with any accuracy or conviction anything of the form/actions/speech/ attitude or anything of RamshivBaba. Another thing, We are practising rememberance of ShivBaba, it is only possible to remember something that has been experienced in a practical way we cannot remember the future. It is another double standard that you demand logical answers from Baba when your own theories are so incredulous and illogical, and requires the most intense level possible of pure blind faith a quality you so openly despise.

content to listen to Krishna's clarification, completely oblivious of the degradation and degeneration of the Advance Party

As by your own posts it can be clearly seen just when, how, and where, the not so subtle shooting of Bhakti/degeneration/degredation takes place in the Advance Party.

BaaaaaaapDaaaaaada is soooooo funny. He tells me everything in advance, and it comes true

VCD* No.600, Dated 19.01.07, Tadepalligudem
Clarification of Murli dated 6.7.67 & 10.7.67
Ref. No.VCD*., Email dtd. 19.04.07

"I have come as a servant of the children to purify the children. Cleanliness is required inside out. I would make you pure and take you along, wouldn't I? One would certainly have to become pure to become the master of the pure world. Speaking a lie, diverting any matter - that also becomes a sin in front of the Father. If there is any such lie, if it causes somebody's welfare (kalyaan), then that is not a lie."

Not so, Baba has mentioned that 'if you have considered yourself to have understood the Trimurti and have recognised ShivBaba, then you must consider it your duty to inform your family, if you do not do so then they will be dissapointed that you did not tell them earlier'. So it is srimat to inform other family members of the new roles.

Dear slammer Bhai.

Yes--that is what i am also trying to do. Each soul is viewing this point according to his intellect. The BKs view this point in a different light and they give the message to the outside world that ShivBaba has come in the body of Krishna (Lekhraj Kirpalani). The PBKs view the point differently and give the message to BKs that ShivBaba has come in the body of Ram(Virendra Dev Dixit). And I view this point differently in the sense that Ramshivbaba will come in future in purshottam Sangamyug and when this body of Virendra Dev Dixit becomes Krishna's 84th birth then Ramshivbaba (Shiv+Ram combined) will control this Krishna's body and the true Brahmins (108) will be created. So if you see closely the same point is interpreted differently by 3 groups viz. the BK praja, the PBK praja and the kings (108). We can have an endless debate as to who is right and who is wrong, or wait till the end and see the result.

In any case, the Sakar Murlis can now be understood to have been spoken not to the Brahmins surrounding Brahma Baba/Lekraj at that time but to other souls, and speaking of future roles and events. This can only be understood by listening to the present day clarifications, without which the Sakar Murlis are impregnable. To say you have gone to the depths of the ocean of knowledge and emerged with the gems of knowledge by studying the Sakar Murlis is simply far fetched in the extreme. Why is this so? Because otherwise you would have emerged the gems of knowledge by yourself.

i have never said that what i have said is the the absolute truth. I am just trying to share the interpretations of the gems of knowledge given in the Murlis of Shivbap, because i feel that the teachings of Advanced Knowledge do not match with the Murlis of Shivbap.

This tells me you are so out of touch with the PBK family. Each time I go to visit Kampil, Faroukabhad, Delhi, Chandigar, Hyderabad, Calcutta, Bangalore, Bombay, Varanassi, TP I always find plenty of discussion going on, and also plenty of discussion in all the GitaPathsalas I visited; discussion, enthusiasm and experienced souls, all enjoying Advanced Knowledge and living the household path. You have no idea.

How do you know that i am not in touch with the PBK family? Just last week Baba came to my lokik Father's house where i attend Gita patshala class twice a week and he was there with 4 other PBKs (3 of them from uk) for about an hour and we had breakfast together. When Baba was leaving he gave me a very tight embrace for 10 seconds and he smiled at me and gave me dhristi and then we all went down to escort him to his car and then again he caught hold of my hand and smiled. If he had any inclination that i am revolting or going against ShivBaba, then he would have never met me in the first place (as Baba has never met anyone who revolts against him). I attend classes regularly biweekly and attend monthly sangatans and i get all the news of what is happening in the PBK family by my PBK friends in Mumbai.

This is the best part, you accuse other PBKs of performing subtle Bhakti. However, your notion of 'RamshivBaba' you keep propagandising is in fact Ultimate Bhakti, why? Because you remember the perfect form of ' Ramshivbaba' in the future.

Yes--for me Ramshivbaba is the perfect form of God which i can relate to and i just cannot relate to bindi ShivBaba who has nothing to do with this world for more than 4900 years.

BaaaaaaapDaaaaaada is soooooo funny. He tells me everything in advance, and it comes true

What is so funny about BapDada? If you think that he tells you everything in advance then the Murli statement "i do not give any inspiration to anybody" becomes false.

shivsena