Meaning of BapDada

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ex-l

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Post01 Jan 2008

suryavanshi wrote:At the end of every Murli, it is said that " Mithe-mithe roohaani bacchon prati maat pitaa baapdada kaa Yaad pyar aur good morning. Roohani Baap ki roohani bacchon ko namaste." ... Are Maat Pita and BapDada the same souls?

In English, and it is interesting to see how the words are treated differently, it is translated as "the mother and the Father, BapDada, (note commas)". That is to say BapDada is the mother and Father.

But was this not added on as an extra by the BKWU rather than existing in the original?

Is this a particularly PBK fixation, or Shivsena's own personal belief, that EVERY name or term used must have a specific significance and different ... meaning?

Sure, in the BKs in the West especially, "all words apply to One" or the two, e.g. the Shiv soul and Lekhraj Kirpalani.

From my point of view, I imagine the names for God were used poetically, or allegorically, at different times merely to keep things fresh and saving it from being boring. It is as simple as that. We were also told that when new individuals joined the Yugya from other religions of sects with Hinduism, Lekhraj Kirpalani used to pick up and references whatever they believed, e.g. introducing elements of Sikhism when a Sikh joined.

I think it is fair easy to see how to a Rama worshipper he would use Rama as the name of God and imagine if there had been discussion of one legend or another, or the influence of a celebration day, he would pick up on that and use it in the Murlis. I tend to look at things in a very down to earth way. We know that he would be inspired by simple things, rose gardens, Mickey Mouse, movie songs etc.

Is it really such high science or are we just attempting so hard to invest into it a deeper meaning because, in fact, sub-consciously we realise that "Gyan" is not actually very deep at all and our minds are just craving something more interesting? Something deeper and more satisfying. I honestly do not think Lekhraj Kirpalani was that pin point sharp at every moment, I think he was "just talking" half the time. It this all not just another mental, intellectual, craving investing importance where there is none.

It would help those of us who do not have the wealth of a near complete Murli collection or read Hindi to have one single list of all the names and terms used and a translation to what they mean ... noting punctuation, e.g. commas between Ram and Shiva etc.
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john

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Post01 Jan 2008

ex-l wrote:Is it really such high science or are we just attempting so hard to invest into it a deeper meaning because, in fact, sub-consciously we realise that "Gyan" is not actually very deep at all and our minds are just craving something more interesting? Something deeper and more satisfying.

I have to agree, it does seem to me that some are looking so hard for clues and little messages it takes away from the overall intention of Gyan. I think Monty Python lampooned that kind of thing well in the 'Life of Brian', in the part where his followers mistook everything he said for a sacred message.

A big part of Virendra Dev Dixit thinking is that Shiva knew what was going to happen to the BKSWU (the degradation), so left little clues in the Murlis for the future generation (PBKs), which only he has been able to decipher.

I am not saying whether that is correct or not, just an observation.
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andrey

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Post01 Jan 2008

I believe ground gets deeper the more we dig. There cannot be complaint about someone as to what is not enough, what is just fine and what is too much for him. For example as ex-l likes to put his own vision for the Gyan, what is it meant to be, what it is in reality, why it is like this, such visions can exit as many as there are people and these are bound to be due to our own prejudice. With our interpretation we are just revealing our own self, what type of thinking do we have, whom are we influenced by etc., rather than the secrets of Gyan.

If we see The Knowledge as prophecy it is likely to wait and see if it gets materialized or not, but if we see it as a plan that we are meant to fulfill we would rather engage ourselves.
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ex-l

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Post02 Jan 2008

andrey wrote:For example as ex-l likes to put his own vision for the Gyan, what is it meant to be, what it is in reality, why it is like this, such visions can exit as many as there are people.

Do you want to be specific, andrey, rather than make a generalised insult?

I am sorry but I am really not interested in any subjective views, either my own or anyone else's. True "Gyan" is found giving them up.

But ... false humility aside ... I've done more than most, or perhaps any to date, to set the record straight from all the lies, deceit and cover ups. Rather then dabble, revel or exploit them.

shivsena

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Post18 Jan 2008

Dear arjun Bhai.

Is there any Murli or avaykt Vani which says that, there are 3 souls (shiv-ram-krishna) in one body. Shiva in Murlis always mentions the word 'BapDada' with reference to two souls only (atma and paramatma) and Brahma in Vanis also refers to avaykt BapDada as two souls combined.

Can any PBK produce any Murli or Vani where it is mentioned that there are 3 souls in one body?

shivsena.

bansy

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Post18 Jan 2008

there are 3 souls (Shiv-Ram-Krishna) in one body

Glad someone has finally asked this. :P

I have trouble still with having two souls in a body.

Recently, there is a new PC which has, pardon my limited IT knowhow, two IT chips that working in parallel and together can do processes much faster. However, at the end of the day, all they are doing is taking turns since both chips cannot work at the same time even if tasks are divided by a split nanosecond.

So when two souls come into a body, how does it work? When does one soul "speak" and the other "shut up" and vice versa. It is even more confusing when these two souls come into the body of Dadi Gulzar, what and where does her own soul do and go (can answer this after you have worked out how the other two souls are doing in tandem).

OK, when we mortals sleep, our soul goes to rest. So does that mean Dadi G's soul is at rest when BapDada arrives? So it is BapDada (combination of souls) taking over her physical senses and moves her arms, blinks her eyes, pushes her lungs up and down, makes the skin perspire etc? If there are two souls, is Brahma Baba moving her hands when Father Shiva speaks? I don't want it to seem I am explaining what seems like a puppet show, but has anyone really taken a closer look at what is happening and stay detached?

I have another question somewhat related. When you go to a BapDada meeting and since the two souls are now in the body of Dadi Gulzar, how do you connect with them, you need to be in soul conscious mode to achieve the divine connection, right ? But if you are in soul conscious mode, how does your body function? How do you listen with, to the headphones and the noise and why then does BapDada need to actually (physically) talk out? Is physical action actually body conscious? And soul consciousness there is the absence of body?

After writing the above, I've just realised this thread is in the PBK section, but athough this latter question is more of a BK question, however one can see maybe a similar type of situation and reason as with the PBKs.
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arjun

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Post18 Jan 2008

shivsena wrote:Is there any Murli or avaykt Vani which says that, there are 3 souls (Shiv-Ram-Krishna) in one body. Shiva in Murlis always mentions the word 'BapDada' with reference to two souls only (atma and paramatma) and Brahma in Vanis also refers to avaykt BapDada as two souls combined. Can any PBK produce any Murli or Vani where it is mentioned that there are 3 souls in one body?

Dear Brother,

Omshanti. It has been written several times on this forum and I have no objection in writing once again that 'Bap' refers to the incorporeal God Father Shiv as well as the Father of all human beings, i.e. Prajapita, while Dada refers to the 'elder Brother' i.e. the eldest child, i.e. soul of Krishna/Dada Lekhraj.

Just as you infer Maya to mean 'soul of Krishna/Dada Lekhraj' in the same way I infer 'BapDada' to mean the above (based on The Knowledge received from ShivBaba through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit).
Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

shivsena

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Post18 Jan 2008

arjun wrote:Omshanti. It has been written several times on this forum and I have no objection in writing once again that 'Bap' refers to the incorporeal God Father Shiv as well as the Father of all human beings, i.e. Prajapita, while Dada refers to the 'elder Brother' i.e. the eldest child, i.e. soul of Krishna/Dada Lekhraj.
Just as you infer Maya to mean 'soul of Krishna/Dada Lekhraj' in the same way I infer 'BapDada' to mean the above (based on The Knowledge received from ShivBaba through Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit).

Dear arjun Bhai.

i knew that you would quote from Advanced Knowledge teachings (which only PBKs understand).

There is no proof of the presence of 3 souls in one body in any Murli or any Vani.
shivsena
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arjun

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Post18 Jan 2008

Omshanti. Just now a BK rang up to tell me that today Avyakt BapDada (through Gulzar Dadi) appreciated the role of Gulzar Dadi for assimilating (samaanaa) of two souls, i.e. the soul of Brahma Baba and Supreme Soul. Since I do not have the exact Hindi text I cannot say anything about it, but it would be interesting to hear the clarification for the above words of Avyakt BapDada from ShivBaba (through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit). BKs would definitely infer it to mean the entry of Shiv and Brahma in Gulzar Dadiji.

It would be interesting to read the official English version of today's Avyakt Vani to be published by BKs.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

bansy

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Post18 Jan 2008

Just now a BK rang up to tell me that today Avyakt BapDada (through Gulzar Dadi) appreciated the role of Gulzar Dadi

Heard this too. Interesting that BapDada is in the body of Dadi Gulzar and is speaking about the soul of Dadi Gulzar. Dadi Gulzar will have to wake up and watch the DVD to see it :P In some ways, it sorts of reinforces my previous post in this thread.

I also was told that BapDada was referring to both Dadi Gulzar and Dadiji regarding their roles as the original jewels of the Yagya.

My BK friend said the Avyakt Vani was a little different from previous meetings this season as more service and about the past was spoken. Will wait for the official version.
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andrey

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Post18 Jan 2008

Can these two souls mean the one of the Chariot (Gulzar Dadi) and the one that enters?
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arjun

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Post19 Jan 2008

Just now a BK rang up to tell me that today Avyakt BapDada (through Gulzar Dadi) appreciated the role of Gulzar Dadi for assimilating (samaanaa) of two souls, i.e. the soul of Brahma Baba and Supreme Soul. Since I do not have the exact Hindi text I cannot say anything about it, but it would be interesting to hear the clarification for the above words of Avyakt BapDada from ShivBaba (through Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit). BKs would definitely infer it to mean the entry of Shiv and Brahma in Gulzar Dadiji.

Here is the official Hindi version of yesterday's Avyakt Vani:
"Aur Gulzar bachchi nay BapDada ko samaaney ka kaarya kiya ... Gulzar bachchi kee bhi mahima kee nirmal, nirmaan, seva ke nimit bani, aur samaaney kee shakti pramaan, Parmatma aur aatma dono ko Brahma Baap aatma aur parmatma ko samaaney kee shakti jo Baap say praapta hui usko kaarya may lagaya." - page 7

I have sent the above lines for being clarified by ShivBaba (through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) through email.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun
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arjun

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Re: Meaning of BapDada

Post11 Jun 2008

Omshanti. In an article written by Dadi Janki in the Gyanamrit magazine dated June, 08 it is mentioned that when Brahma Baba came to Mumbai for operation, she was also present there. Many people used to ask whether he is your guru. Then Baba told them - tell them that he is BapDada, then it would be easy to explain. Since then the name BapDada became popular. As soon as Baba came to his room in the hospital after the operation he wrote a six page Murli. Baba had so much love for us children.

But the same Dadi or her followers have replaced Baba's Murlis with her classes that have become so popular that some centers skip the regular Murli to read her class once in a week.
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