How many no. of births and who is womb/mouth born Brahmins

All,

In the context of the subject title, can someone clarify the positions and history of the majority of Brahmins on how many no. of births and who is womb/mouth born Brahmin for

- a soul who directly became a BK and are still BK.
- a soul who directly became a PBK without being BK and are still PBK.
- a soul who was a BK and becomes a PBK ? (exclude the case of Virendra Dev Dixit for the moment)

(Just for simplicity although these definitions are being discussed, BK = recognise Dadi Gulzar as Chariot of BapDada (Shiva + Brahma Baba (Lekhraj Kirpalani), PBK = recognise Virendra Dev Dixit as Chariot of Shiva + Ram + Krishna)

Regards
Bansy

Sister Bansy,
Omshanti. Mouth born Brahmins are those who take the Brahmin birth by listening to the words that emerge from the mouth of Prajapita Brahma and also follow the words of Brahma in their individual lives.
Womb born Brahmins are those who take the Brahmin birth by getting attracted to the personality (body) of Brahma (Dada Lekhraj). They do not heed to the words spoken by Brahma and do not apply the Godly knowledge in their life.

As regards - a soul who directly became a BK and are still BK - can take 84 births provided they get included in the 9 lakh souls which constitute the first generation of deities. Otherwise they may take 83 or lesser births.

As regards - a soul who directly became a PBK without being BK and are still PBK - can also take 84 births provided they get included in the 9 lakh souls which constitute the first generation of deities. Otherwise they may take 83 or lesser births. Such souls might have been a BK at the beginning of the Yagya in their previous birth or might have been in contact with the Yagya/Yagya mother and Father.

As regards - a soul who was a BK and becomes a PBK - can also take 84 births provided they are included in the 9 lakh souls which constitute the first generation of deities. Otherwises they may take 83 or lesser births.

I have tried to answer your questions to the extent I understood them. If this is not what you wanted as a reply, then kindly make it more clear.
With regards,
OGS,
Arjun

Dear Arjunbhai

Thanks for the reply.

Mouth born Brahmins are those who take the Brahmin birth by listening to the words that emerge from the mouth of Prajapita Brahma and also follow the words of Brahma in their individual lives.

Please could you clarify the difference between "Prajapita Brahma" and "Brahma" used in this case.
Would any soul in contact and studied with Brahma Baba (Lekhraj Kirpalani) before 1969 be considered to be a mouth-born Brahmin ?

I missed one other category, Thought-born Brahmins. I recall in the Murlis that thought-born Brahmins are refer to as double foreigners, is this correct ? (As per PBK Gyan, the definition of double foreigners is given in this topic; click here, but repeated here for clarity :

As per the Advanced Knowledge, double foreigners (double videshi) means the ones who cross two barriers or walls (lokik and aloukik world) to meet Baba or those who have been banished both by the outside lokik world and the Brahmin world of BKs. So as per this definition all PBKs are double foreigners.

Thus during Sakar Brahma Baba days, the PBKs were already known ?

Regards
Bansy

Arjun wrote:
Mouth born Brahmins are those who take the Brahmin birth by listening to the words that emerge from the mouth of Prajapita Brahma and also follow the words of Brahma in their individual lives.
Please could you clarify the difference between "Prajapita Brahma" and "Brahma" used in this case.
Would any soul in contact and studied with Brahma Baba (Dada Lekhraj) before 1969 be considered to be a mouth-born Brahmin ?

Sister Bansy,
Omshanti. Brahma can be the name of many but Prajapita Brahma is only one. Brahma is the name of all those in whom Shiv enters. But Prajapita Brahma is the one through whom Father Shiv lays the seed of knowledge in the beginning and then gives the inheritance in the end. So, by this definition, the mothers in whom Shiv entered in the beginning of the Yagya were also Brahma. Dada Lekhraj was also a titleholder of Brahma.

In the Advanced Knowledge Baba says that those who pay attention to the words emerging through the mouth of Brahma rather than his body are called mouthborn Brahmins. Going by this definition, those BKs who paid attention to the Godly knowledge that emerged through the mouth of Brahma (Dada Lekhraj) and did not look at his attractive body should be called mouth-born Brahmins.

But even then I would confirm from Baba once and let you know.

I missed one other category, Thought-born Brahmins. I recall in the Murlis that thought-born Brahmins are refer to as double foreigners, is this correct ?

As far as I know it is told in the Advanced Knowledge that all those BKs who entered the path of knowledge after the demise of Brahma Baba are called thought born Brahmins.

As regards - a soul who directly became a PBK without being BK and are still PBK - can also take 84 births provided they get included in the 9 lakh souls which constitute the first generation of deities. Otherwise they may take 83 or lesser births. Such souls might have been a BK at the beginning of the Yagya in their previous birth or might have been in contact with the Yagya/Yagya mother and Father.

I would like get the above statement made by me cofirmed from Baba after one of my PBK Brothers has discussed the above issue with me. We had the second thoughts that all the PBKs, being seed-souls, should take complete 84 births. I am also reminded of a discussion cd where a PBK asked Baba about those PBKs who are leaving/may leave bodies before the forthcoming destruction. I remember Baba telling that because of their sanskars of the Advanced Knowledge of becoming kanchankaya (a deity-like body) in the Brahmin birth, they would take rebirth as a PBK and get included in the four and a half lakh souls which survive destruction. That way all the seed-souls would take 84 births.
I am sorry for the confusion that might have been created because of my previous statement quoted above.
With regards,
OGS,
Arjun

Thus during Sakar Brahma Baba days, the PBKs were already known ?

Sister, I could not understand your question. Since the existence of PBKs began only from 1976, I am at a loss to undertand how the PBKs could be known during the days of Sakar Brahma Baba. Although it was directed by ShivBaba during the days of Brahma Baba itself that the alokik Brahmins should call themselves PBKs, but they preferred to be known as BKs only and that is how the world knows them. It is only after 1976 that the members of the Advance Party started introducing themselves as PBKs to the Brahmin world.

With regards,
OGS,
Arjun

I am sorry for the confusion that might have been created

Arjunbhai,
Thanks for the replies. No confusion created. It is the continous churning that enables us all to delve and understand points. And even if some souls get the full 84 births, some become kings and queens, whilst others subjects.

Sister Bansy wrote:
Thus during Sakar Brahma Baba days, the PBKs were already known ?

Sister, I could not understand your question. Since the existence of PBKs began only from 1976, I am at a loss to undertand how the PBKs could be known during the days of Sakar Brahma Baba. Although it was directed by ShivBaba during the days of Brahma Baba itself that the alokik Brahmins should call themselves PBKs, but they preferred to be known as BKs only and that is how the world knows them. It is only after 1976 that the members of the Advance Party started introducing themselves as PBKs to the Brahmin world.

My apologies, I was in a rush earlier that I left this leaving. You've actually answered it. I should have used "during Sakar Brahma Baba days, the souls and roles of PBKs were already known".
What I wanted to say was that Sakar BB , or rather Father Shiva through the body of BB (Lekhraj Kirpalani), had used the term double foreigners and thought born Brahmins in Murlis and thus Father Shiva had known, and "possibly" BB (Lekhraj Kirpalani) had the visions too, of these groups of souls coming later on in the drama. Yes, at that time there was no such Advance Party, but the souls that eventually evolved to be PBKs came to be as per drama in 1976. Hence, double foreigners were the words of Shiva and/or the visions of BB (Lekhraj Kirpalani). I don't expect an answer to this, just to point out an important point related in the drama of the Brahmin family.