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Brahmins or shudras: 1st birth or 84th birth?

http://www.brahmakumaris.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=365

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Brahmins or shudras: 1st birth or 84th birth?

PostPosted: 07 Oct 2006
by shivsena
Dear BK and PBK Brothers.

It has been said many times in Murlis that, "Father comes and gives you 21 births inheritance of mukti and jeevan-mukti". Then again it has been said in Murlis that, ''Father comes to make you ever-healthy, ever-wealthy, and ever-happy for next 21 births". Then again it has been said that, ''you will not fall ill for the next 21 births".

Now these Murli points, if churned deeply, give a very clear message that the part of Father (Ram ShivBaba) or Bindi ShivBaba (as believed by most BKs and PBKs) as Bap-teacher-satguru has still not started for the simple reason that, if the GodFather's part has started, then we should should be experiencing the practical proof of the above 3 points mentioned. But the fact is that none of the BKs or PBKs have received inheritance of any sort in the present life and both are still sailing in the same boat of ignorance (Brahma ki raat).

If PBKs say that the part of bap-teacher Satguru has started form 1976 or from 1989 then it should be auspicious Confluence Age for PBKs and they have to experience bliss and good health in all respects. But practically it is not so. On other hand, PBKs also believe that the shooting period of Copper Age started from 1989 and then the shooting period of Kaliyug started from 2000 onwards. So my dillemma is, how can shooting and auspicious Confluence Age be together simultaneously. Just as in the broad drama of 5000 years, Sangamyug follows Kaliyug, then logically in the subtle drama the auspicious Confluence Age has to follow after the Kaliyugi shooting ends.

So the question arises which period are we passing through and which is this present birth of we PBKs? If it is Kaliyugi shooting then we are still behad ka shudras(84th birth) and the part of Bap-teacher-satguru has not started and we are still passing through the night of Brahma, is it not?!!!And if we are in the Auspicious Confluence Age, and this is our first Brahmin birth then, why have we not received any inheritance from the ShivBaba (Bap-teacher-satguru) and not having the practical experience of the above points ?

Can any PBK please elucidate who we are at present; Brahmins or shudras?

shivsena.

PostPosted: 07 Oct 2006
by arjun
Shivsena wrote:Can any PBK please elucidate who we are at present : Brahmins or shudras !!!

Omshanti. We are definitely not Shudras now because we have recognized the Supreme Father and have taken a vow of purity. But at the same time we are not 100 percent Brahmins because we sometimes violate the vow of purity (in thoughts / vision / words / actions) that we have taken and thus cause the Shudra sanskars to emerge.

That is why Baba says that there cannot be any rosary for the Brahmins, because they pass through the up and down stage.
With regards,
OGS,
Arjun

PostPosted: 07 Oct 2006
by shivsena
Dear arjun Bhai.

It is amazing to note that inspite of the Omnipotent God Shiva with us we are still shunting between the stages of Shudra and Brahmin. Sometimes we become Kaliyugi and sometimes we become Sangamyugi. That is an interesting concept which i will have to find out if there is any reference to it in the Murlis (ek second mein Kaliyugi and ek second mein Sangamyugi).

shivsena.

PostPosted: 30 May 2007
by andrey
Baba (via Lekhraj Kirpalani, via Virendra Dev Dixit) says, "I am the boatman. I take the boat of both your soul and body across. We have to remember the new world and forget the old world".

Confluence Age is sometimes to be in the old world with the mind and intellect and sometimes in the new world. When we will get across, in this birth and body, we will receive the first birth. Baba via Virendra Dev Dixit says, now we have to forget even the Confluence Age. When the mind is without thoughts this vibration purifies the body and matter.

PostPosted: 18 Jul 2007
by andrey
Brother new-world raised the topic somewhere about 84 births and complete 84 births. Baba says that complete 84 births is for 450,000 souls who transform themselves (their souls and bodies). And those who take birth through them also take 84 births.

Re: Brahmins or shudras: 1st birth or 84th birth?

PostPosted: 21 Apr 2008
by andrey
In one VCD* it is said that with the intellect it will be said that 5000 years get over when The Cycle of 84 births becomes clear. With the body it is when based on knowledge there is victory over matter.

Re: Brahmins or shudras: 1st birth or 84th birth?

PostPosted: 26 May 2008
by prbrku
If a soul leaves the body in this birth itself it means it had been its 83rd birth, but there are various souls who after leaving the body they don't get rebirth but play the part of entering. They could even be souls who take lesser births. At the end, they will leave back for Paramdham and those souls who take the complete 84 births will stay

Re: Brahmins or shudras: 1st birth or 84th birth?

PostPosted: 26 May 2008
by arjun
Dear prbrku,
Omshanti and welcome to the forum. I hope to you would enjoy reading the forum and participating in the discussions.
Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

Re: Brahmins or shudras: 1st birth or 84th birth?

PostPosted: 19 Jun 2008
by shivsena
Dear arjun Bhai.

Which is Krishna's 84th birth and which is Ram's 84th birth?

BKs believe that Lekhraj Kirpalani was Krishna's 84th birth and PBKs believe that Virendra Dev Dixit is Ram's 84th birth.
Also PBKs believe that Krishna is playing a role in the body of Virendra Dev Dixit ( role is still not specified);
My query : Is the praveshta of Krishna in Virendra Dev Dixit to be considered a 'praveshta birth' and if it is so, then is it the 85th birth of Krishna ????

shivsena.