Questions for PBKs

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arjun

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post25 Jul 2008

new knowledge wrote:Dear PBKs, who might be that Krishna refered in this quotation?
* If that is the Confluence Aged Krishna, who might be his parents who are not as famous as him?
* If that is the Golden Aged Krishna, then do you accept that the Confluence Aged Lakshmi-Narayan (supposed to be the parents of the Golden Aged Krishna) are not as famous as the Golden Aged Krishna & that they have not put so much effort compared to that of him?

I don't remember exactly, but I heard ShivBaba (through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) clarify on this subject saying that the parents of the Confluence-Aged Krishna are the seed souls of Islam within the PBK family who become instruments in revealing the Confluence-Aged Krishna to a large number of souls by introducing the advanced knowledge to the BKs based in South India. But they're not as famous as the Confluence-Aged Krishna. These seed souls of Islam (a PBK Brother and a PBK Sister) are at present not actively involved with the PBK family but have neither severed connections with the PBK family completely.
However I will confirm this from Baba.
mbbhat wrote:1) When Baba says clearly that the parents of SriKrishna are worse than SriKrishna, do you suggest one to accept your FEELings or versions of God? *DON'T YOU FEEL THAT YOUR FEELINGS ARE EXACTLY OPPOSITE TO GOD'S FEELINGS IN THIS Murli? It is clearly said, effort of latter is more than former's.
2) Are you not sure about 2? Can I expect your right answer (not just I suppose), because you have God Father with you?

You are interpreting the Murli in a literal sense and hence you feel your interpretation is right. I also used to think like you as a BK. But, from PBKs point of view, the Murli point that you have quoted is not to be interpreted in a literal sense. However, since you cannot believe that there could be any other human being who can make more efforts than Brahma Baba, I cannot explain to you any further on this subject.
mbbhat wrote:*Have you heard of Murli point, "when the soul becomes pure, it sheds its body OR A pure soul cannot stay in an impure body?' If yes, can you say how Veerendra Dev Dixit's soul remains in impure body?

Since you have aimed to be like Brahma Baba who has left his body and will become deity in his next birth, you will interpret the above Murli point to mean that when the soul becomes pure it will have to leave its body.

But based on the advanced knoweledge being given to us by ShivBaba through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit we believe that we have to become deities through the same body. For us the above Murli point, i.e. leaving the body would mean shedding the body consciousness and not the physical body. It has been said by Baba in several Murlis that we have to witness heaven practically through these eyes. He has also said that He is such a wonderful washerman who makes the soul as well as the body pure (kanchankaya). He also gives the example of snake shedding its skin several times in its life before leaving its body in the end. This does not mean that those who become deities through the same body don't leave their bodies. They do leave their bodies, but after completing their life span and after fulfilling their duties.
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new knowledge

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post25 Jul 2008

Dear arjun Bhai, thanks for reply. Then do you mean that these seed souls of Islam religion are failure Ram-Sita who are not as famous as Krishna & who have put less efforts than him????
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arjun

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post25 Jul 2008

new knowledge wrote:Dear arjun Bhai, thanks for reply. Then do you mean that these seed souls of Islam religion are failure Ram-Sita who are not as famous as Krishna & who have put less efforts than him????

Omshanti. I cannot reply to this question until I clarify my earlier doubt from Baba. So, we will have to wait for his reply.
With regards,
OGS,
Arjun
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mbbhat

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post26 Jul 2008

new knowledge wrote:Brother mbbhat, what is your (& that of BKs) philosophy about birth of Krishna by Yogbal? Who might be his parents & how will they give birth to Krishna by Yogbal & when? Please, reply with only proof of Murli points & not that of BK Sisters, Dadis classes.

Dear soul,

If you read mbbhat's quote, it is written 'bhale tumhaaraa janm chee chee hoga ... aage chal tum samajhte jaayenge'= your(including parents of Krishna) birth will be impure ... You will come to know about these later.

From the above Murli point, I think:- BKs who have already left their bodies have taken births. Their birth is impure. Some of these BK souls will have done considerable purusharthah and have good purity but less than Lekhraj Kirpalani (Krishna). Two such souls will become parents of Krishna. Since they have practised purity to considerable extent, they will be able to give birth by yogabal to Krishna.

See another Murli point below.
2-10-2000 (1):- tum jaante ho abhee hum purushottam ban rahe hain. Uttam te uttam purush, Oonch te oonch, saahukaar se saahukaar, number one kahenge LN ko. Shaastron me dikhaate hain badee parlay huyee. Phir No. 1 Srikrishn peepal ke patte par saagar me aayaa. Abhee tum kyaa kahenge? No. 1 hai yah shreekrishn, jisko hee shyaamsundar kahte hain. Dikhaate hain- angoothaa choostaa huvaa aayaa. Bacchhaa to GARBH me hee rahtaa hai. To pehle2 gyaansaagar se niklaa huvaa uttam te uttam purush shreekrishn hai. Gyaansaagar se swarg kee sthaapanaa hotee hai. Unme No. 1 purushottam yah shreekrishn hai.

Approxomate Translation is:- You know that we are now becoming purushottam (best). Best of the best, Highest of the high, Richer than richest, number one is Lakhsmi Narayan. In scripture, it is written that PRALAY (Completely filled in water) happened. Then the number one SriKrishn came in the leaf of peepal tree in the ocean. Now what do you say? No. 1 is this(may be pointing to the picture) SriKrishn to whom you say Shyamsundar. It is shown that SriKrishn came with putting fingers in mouth (indicates a baby). Child (baby) will be in WOMB. So the first one, best one that came out from (created by) the ocean of knowledge is Sri Krishna. Heaven gets established by Ocean of Knowledge. In that number one purushottam is this SriKrishn.

It is clearly said SriKrishna who is in mother's womb is Number One. But PBKs define new Krishna called Sangamyugi Krishna and say he is No. one. Now just think yourself whether the Sangamyugi Krishna comes from Mother's womb. Now you decide whether BKs are better in interpreting Murlis or PBKs.
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new knowledge

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post26 Jul 2008

arjun wrote:the parents of the Confluence-Aged Krishna are the seed souls of Islam within the PBK family who become instruments in revealing the Confluence-Aged Krishna to a large number of souls by introducing the advanced knowledge to the BKs based in South India. But they're not as famous as the Confluence-Aged Krishna.

OK, thus, possibly, seed souls of Islam may be assumed as (alokik?) parents of the Confluence-Aged Krishna who give birth (birth-like revealation to him & who are not as famous as him; but ... but what about birth of Krishna by Yogbal? Do these seed souls of Islam give alokik birth (birth-like revealation) to the Confluence-Aged Krishna by 'Yogbal'?
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ex-l

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post26 Jul 2008

mbbhat, just out of interest, did you go off and become a PBK and then go back to the BKs? Or are you part of another splinter group?

It does not bother me any way but it is just rare to find any BK that has a working knowledge of PBK lore and is able to discuss it reasonably.
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new knowledge

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post26 Jul 2008

{BK[ex-PBK(ex-BK)]}. Is that so ex-l?
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mbbhat

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post26 Jul 2008

ex-l wrote:mbbhat, just out of interest, did you go off and become a PBK and then go back to the BKs? Or are you part of another splinter group? It does not bother me any way but it is just rare to find any BK that has a working knowledge of PBK lore and is able to discuss it reasonably.

Dear ex-l soul,

There was a BK function and after attending it, I was returning. I was dressed in white clothes with badge, etc. I was running fast to catch bus. Two people dressed in white clothes were following me. I thought that they also were trying to reach bus, but actually they were chasing me. They asked me who is mukh-vamshavali (mv) and who is kukh-vamshavali (kv) Brahmins. I replied "BKs are mv and lokik Brahmins are kv. [kokh means womb]. But they started to teach me. Then I came to know that they belonged to Shankar Party (so called PBKs).

Inside bus, there was heavy arguments. I was furious. But these PBKs were very calm.

Such around four similar incidents occured unexpectedly.

* When I heard this point ""Accha. Kumarka Bataaon ShivBaba ke kitne bacchen hain? ... ShivBaba ke do bacche hain. Brahma aur Shankar", I became interested in Shankar Party (PBKs). But they interpret Murlis according to their need. Hence I could not get faith in them. Around five doubts arised in me whether there is another physical personality called Shankar. Even though these doubts were there, I have not lost faith in Baba. But later I got following Murli points.

    1) I am not Trimurti. I take only one body. The mistake is due to Gita ;
    2) Shankaracharya's soul enters into mother's womb, and
    3) Some may copy you; But lie cannot sustain;
    4) In ladder picture, it is shown, "Father in law (saas) forces (beats) daughter in law (bahu) to give poison (lust) to her husband".
But

    1) PBKs cannot exist without word Trimurti.
    2) They say Shankaracharya's soul enters into a 5 or 8 year child.
    3) Who is copying from whom? PBKs copy Murlis from BKs, right? So who are liars?
    4) You can see in The Ladder diagram in Iron Aged world a lady cries- 'ShivaBaba, help me' and an old man is holding knife at her. PBKs interpret this as 'BK Brothers are forcing to give drushti to kanyas, something like this.
* I will come with dates of those Murlis if possible. They are old Murlis and are kept safe. They are original, but the condition of some of the sheets are bad. But they are not with me at present. I will get them when I return to my native place.

* But when I got these doubts cleared, I became vary happy. But still I have 2 doubts and now, the history of Yagya is also in front. I can just act according to my effort and drama. Let me see.

* One point I noted is so far no PBK had got angry at me even I was shouting at them while arguing. But here in the forum, some PBKs were really upset by me for no reasons.

Thank You.
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shivsena

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post26 Jul 2008

mbbhat wrote:I will come with dates of those Murlis if possible. They are old Murlis and are kept safe. They are original, but the condition of some of the sheets are bad. But they are not with me at present. I will get them when I return to my native place. The history of Yagya is also in front. I can just act according to my effort and drama. Let me see.

Dear mbbhat.

All BKs believe that God Shiva entered in Lekhraj Kirpalani in 1937 and uttered the words : "Nijanand swaroopam; gyan-swaroopam; prakash-swaroopam; shivoham shivoham".

Now can you please explain the following: If God Shiva has spoken these words through Lekhraj Kirpalani, then why was there no Murlis from the mouth of Lekhraj Kirpalani for the following 10 years (when only om-mandli was formed and only om was chanted). Also as per hear-say evidence Shiva used to dictate some versions (through someone we do not know) to Lekhraj Kirpalani at Amrit Vela and these versions were read out in the morning class. So what I wish to know is, why direct Murlis were not spoken through Lekhraj Kirpalani and do the senior BKs have any record of the so called ''peeu ki Vani'' which was spoken in those 10 years?

Also as per the facts narrated by senior BKs, they claim that direct Murlis of Shiva were narrated from karachi in 1947. So again I wish to know, if there is any Murli point saying this or is it just the hear-say of senior BKs because there is no Murli (narrated between 1947 to 1965) in circulation available to any BK or PBK (who would like to research on these Murlis). The only Murlis of Shiva available are after the demise of Mama Saraswati from July 1965 to jan 1969 which are revised every 5 years.

I have asked for these 18 years of Murlis (from 1947 to 1965) to my BK and PBK Brothers and they are just not able to provide me with a single Murli during that period; and so I am asking you a favour that please find out from senior BKs if such Murlis exist and if you can lay hand on some of these, then please upload them on the site, since they can shed more light on what was going on in the Yagya prior to 1965.

Thank you.
shivsena.
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arjun

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post26 Jul 2008

shivsena wrote:I have asked for these 18 years of Murlis(from 1947 to 1965) to my BK and PBK Brothers and they are just not able to provide me with a single Murli during that period; and so i am asking you a favour that please find out from senior BKs if such Murlis exist and if you can lay hand on some of these, then please upload them on the site, since they can shed more light on what was going on in the Yagya prior to 1965.

Please see this thread: The Murlis: Ownership, access to and re-writing of.
An original Murli dated 1958 circulated by BKs vide a revised Murli has been uploaded in this thread.
mbbhat wrote:*One point I noted is so far no PBK had got angry at me even I was shouting at them while arguing. But here in the forum, some PBKs were really upset by me for no reasons.

Everyone has different sanskars. But if you are pointing towards me, I seek your pardon.

By the way, thanks for providing a proof to the readers/members of this forum that PBKs have tried to spread their advanced knowledge individually through peaceful means.
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ex-l

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post26 Jul 2008

arjun wrote:By the way, thanks for providing a proof to the readers/members of this forum that PBKs have tried to spread their advanced knowledge individually through peaceful means.

Yes, the honesty and accuracy of mbbhat's account is to be highly respected.

And, so was the gentleness and composure of the PBKs. It shows a spiritual maturity on both sides that the BK leadership and many of their followers lack. It is very hard to gauge the emotion of others on an internet site and I cant say I have seen much "upset" anywhere here but mbbhat paints a touching vignette of an important bridging between too parties.

For a BK follower to take a position somewhere between the extremes two poles is probably the correct one. But, of course, the complete entirety is still in question.
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mbbhat

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post27 Jul 2008

shivsena wrote:[Now can you please explain the following: If God Shiva has spoken these words through Lekhraj Kirpalani, then why was there no Murlis from the mouth of Lekhraj Kirpalani for the following 10 years (when only om-mandli was formed and only om was chanted). Also as per hear-say evidence Shiva used to dictate some versions (through someone we do not know) to Lekhraj Kirpalani at Amrit Vela and these versions were read out in the morning class. So what I wish to know is, why direct Murlis were not spoken through Lekhraj Kirpalani and do the senior BKs have any record of the so called ''peeu ki Vani'' which was spoken in those 10 years?[/color]

Dear Shivasena soul

At present, I keep myself satisfied by sticking to the following.

1) Initially, many children might not had bothered much about knowledge. They were influenced by visions of Brahma, Krishna, trance, etc. Children were influenced by Mama and Brahma Baba.

Children thought that Mama and Baba would be with them till the end. So, they did not think it was necessary to record the Murlis.
When Mama left body, then children might have become serious. Then they might had started keeping a copy of Murli. Hence previous Murlis might not be available now.

2) I think there is a Murli point saying that – “You children have left behind those Murlis” when coming from Pakistan to India. This may be of peeu ki Vani.

I had listened to some BKs saying that, ‘Dadis had buried Murlis (may be peeu ki Vani) while coming to India from Pakistan’. It was a great shock to me for few days.

3) Shiva started taking REGULAR service of Brahma Baba’s body after 1947 or 1950 when real Sakar Murlis started. That is why in Murli, Baba might have said, “I enter in this at his vanaprastha avastha (60 years)”.

Since BKs had the thinking of Shiva entered Brahma in 1937, and might had already announced to the world that GOD ENTERED IN Brahma IN 1937. Now, when they heard bhagavanuvaach that at 60th year God entered in Brahma, it would have been a big problem to Senior BKs. So, they might have altered the date of birth of Dada Lekhraj.

4) Baba has also said, ‘there were children who were teaching drill to Mama Baba (Brahma). They are not present now’. It need not necessarily mean that they were really guiding Brahma. Baba has also said in Murlis that ‘I do jokes. Sometimes Father says Brahma is just a student like you. But this is the one who becomes No, one’. I will try to get exact versions of Murlis. Otherwise my explanation will be poorer.

5) Just see the Murli point:-

6-1-2000(2):- Baba ne samjhaayaa hai- bhal Saraswati hai, parantu vaastav meim sacchee2 mother Brahma_putra hai. Saagar our Brahma_putra hai, pehle2 sangam inkaa hotaa hi. Baba inme pravesh karte hain. Yah kitnee maheen baaten hain. bahuton kee buddhi mein yah baatein rahte naheen jo chintan kare. Bilkul kam buddhi hai, kam darjaa paanevaale hain.

Here it states that

a) 'FIRST Shiv enters in the TRUE mother Brahma putra'. So, how can we trust in PBK philosophy that God first entered in Sevakram’s body?
b) 'Many children do not know this. They are dull heads'. That means, children would be thinking Brahma is everything!. This may be the reason why in the initial days, there was no mentioning of word Shiva. *Another thing is even if Mama had said, “Gita sermonizer is Shiva through Brahma and not Krishna”, people might have noted that ‘Mama has said Gita sermonizer is Brahma and not Krishna’. Because bodyconscious people cannot understand God entering in a body. The moment you say Shiva speaks through Brahma, they will interpret it as Brahma considers himself as God.

7) Since I do not have clear picture about Yagya history, it is not possible to give right explanation. But I cannot find anybody even in PBK who is neutral. How can I proceed? Just Manmanabhav and Madhyaajeebhav.

8) I would like to quote a Murli here. PBKs say Shiva can be called as ShivaBaba only when he is in a body. But the following point says ShivaBaba resides in Paramdham (bodiless).

6-1-2000(1):- SADAA KAAYAM TO EK ShivaBaba HEE HAI. Baaki to sabko neeche aanaa hee hai. Parntu vah bhee sangam par aate hai, sabhee ko vaapas le jaate hain. *Hence I cannot understand PBKs' interpretation of Murlis.

9) If possible, please send me as PM or mention here all the Murli points you have about peeu ki Vani, the above drill, etc. I have just started building up of database. I am mentioning them in the forum.

Thanks.
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new knowledge

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post27 Jul 2008

Wow!
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new knowledge

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post27 Jul 2008

Bro mbbhat, what is your explanation about Tri-Murti Shiv? Who are Brahma, Vishnu & Shankar? Or, why Tri-Murti Shiv is said & why not Tri-Murtiyaan Shiv as there are 3 idols?
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mbbhat

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post27 Jul 2008

new knowledge wrote:Bro mbbhat, what is your explanation about Tri-Murti Shiv? Who are Brahma, Vishnu & Shankar? Or, why Tri-Murti Shiv is said & why not Tri-Murtiyaan Shiv as there are 3 idols?

Dear Soul,

Take an example; to teach about molecule to a student, the teacher says, "consider a piece of chalk. Cut it into two. Then cut that piece into two. Go on cutting it till you get the last one. If you teach like this, the student will understand. But if you say directly that molecule is one whose size is so and so, the student will not understand at all. Hence the best way to teach is TO PROCEED FROM KNOWN TO UNKNOWN.

2) knowledge of soul IS GIVEN THROUGH The Knowledge OF BODY.

3) So, Baba uses Bhaktimarg to give knowledge of gyanmarg. In Bhaktimarg, the word Trimurti Shiv is already famous. So, Baba explains in that way. If you just say, Shiva is point, people will not understand. This is why even in the beginning, Baba used to say, I am ling like.

4) Baba says Ravan Rajy. But is there Ravan really?

5) We also know that there is no four armed Vishnu at all. There is also no Shankar who when opens third eye, the world gets destroyed.

6) If you give Gyan directly, people will not understand and lose interest. So Baba gave knowledge using the existing Bhaktimarg so that children would get interested in that and at least some positive thinking happens in them. Then only knowledge will sit in the intellect. Otherwise, what was the need of saakshaatkaar and uttering OM which are nothing but Bhaktimarg?

7) Actually, there is no Trimurti at all. To make people understand, Baba says write Prajapita Brahma, Trimurti Shiv, etc. beacuse in Bhaktimarg, those words are used.

Baba says, 'If you just write Brahma, people will think it as sookshmavatan Brahma, because in scriptures, it is shown that Brahma resides in Subtle Region. But the name Prajapita Brahma is famous even in scriptures. So, Baba says, if you children write Prajapita Brahma, it would be easy to explain to the people that Brahma is Prajapita and hence should be present here (after 1969, had been present here). Then you can give knowledge that God enters Prajapita and starts new creation.

This meaning is not understood by many BKs. So, they were not able to explain Virendra Dev Dixit at that time. And even Yagya history is not known fully. This gave a chance to Virendra Dev Dixit to project himself as Prajapita.

8) BKs say God sustains through Vishnu. Is this correct? Does God enters in Vishnu and sustains heaven? If God himself sustains, then can heaven turn into hell? So, God is just the creator. Other two things (sustenance and destruction) happen naturally. You need to build (create) a new house. Other two things are natural. So God needs only Brahma. But in scriptures, they have mentioned God comes in every yugya to sustain, brings pralaya, etc. So Trimurti word is famous.
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