Questions for PBKs

for Prajapita Brahma Kumaris (Advance Party), or those interested in becoming PBKs, to discuss AIVV matters in an open, non-judgemental manner.
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ex-l

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post27 Jul 2008

mbbhat wrote:3) Shiva started taking REGULAR service of Brahma Baba’s body after 1947 or 1950 when real Sakar Murlis started. That is why in Murli, Baba might have said, “I enter in this at his vanaprastha avastha (60 years)”.

Since BKs had the thinking of Shiva entered Brahma in 1937, and might had already announced to the world that GOD ENTERED IN Brahma IN 1937. Now, when they heard bhagavanuvaach that at 60th year God entered in Brahma, it would have been a big problem to Senior BKs. So, they might have altered the date of birth of Dada Lekhraj.

"Since" ... ? Since when did "BKs had the thinking of Shiva entered Brahma in 1937", mbbhat?

I sorry, I have to stop you there on that. All the time you are lacing your posts with inaccuracies and suppositions you cannot sustain and which contradict the slim evidence we do have. Instead of greasing the BK propaganda, why not just stop, go back to you sources and get ACTUAL facts? Not your suppositions. It might work on impressed neophytes, it is not going to wash here.

From Om Radhe's book (probably written with Lekhraj Kirpalani legal advocate of the time), we have a pretty sure date as of 4 th July 1938 that Lekhraj Khubchand Kripalani was 54, so he was 60 in 1944. From the Yugya posters and we have specific dates for the early Trees and Cycles that the BKWSU claim to have buried, cut out of their history and falsified in autobiographies to 1949. By 1949, they were still publishing "of which Divine Father Prajapati God Brahma, Corporeal Re-incarnation of Incorporeal God Vishnu (Chaturbhui) is the SEED". And he retired in 1932.

And no, sorry, I do not accept "forgetfulness" on behalf of the leadership. Can you see HOW loose the BKWSU version is ... how can you base facts on that. Has BOTH the "60 years" and "vanaprastha avastha" been given? Or has the 'assumption' that vanaprastha avastha equals 60 been made by BK followers? One could interpret 'vanaprastha avastha' metaphorically in a couple of manners ... but I want to know the truth not individual's interpretations.

This poster is from 1949, click to enlarge or find large version in the Library. Have you seen The Tree of the same time? Were all the Om Mandli followers as dumb as you claim? I do not think so.

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arjun

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post28 Jul 2008

mbbhat wrote:7) Actually, there is no Trimurti at all. To make people understand, Baba says write Prajapita Brahma, Trimurti Shiv, etc. because in Bhaktimarg, those words are used.

Dear Brother,

Omshanti. After reading your above lines I am at a loss of words to express myself. In almost every Murli Baba underlines the importance of Trimurti and you say that there is no Trimurti at all. Actually, no BK/PBK should be interested in continuing a dialogue with you after reading these words. But still, for your kind information I am reproducing the following Murli point which underlines the importance of Prajapita as well as Trimurti:
"Prajapita Brahma ke bachhey Brahman hee thahrey. Brahman tab hongey jab Prajapita sammukh hoga. Abhi tum sammukh ho. Tum har-ek Prajapita Brahma kee aulaad apney ko samajhtey ho ... ShivBaba bhi kahtey hain mai is shareeer dwara baat karta hoon. Nahi toh mai kaisey aaoon? Mera janma divya hai ... Mai inkay baaju may aakar baithta hoon, jahaan aatma rahti hai. Mai swatantra hoon. Kahaan bhi jaa aa sakta hoon ...Baba nay kaha tha har-ek chitra may likho – paarloukik parampita parmatma Trimurti Shiv Bhagwaanuvaach. Trimurti na likhney say kahengey Shiv toh niraakaar hai, vah kaisey gyaan dengey?" (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 8.8.05, page 2, 3 aur 4)

"Children of Prajapita Brahma would be called Brahmins only. Brahmins will exist only when Prajapita is present face to face. Now you are face to face. Every one of you considers yourself to be the child of Prajapita Brahma. ... ShivBaba also says that I speak through this body. Otherwise how will I come? My birth is divine ... I come and sit beside him, where the soul resides. I am free. I can go and come wherever I wish ... Baba had said, ‘Write in every picture – Paarloukik (dweller of the Supreme Abode) Supreme Father Supreme Soul Trimurti God Shiva speaks:’ If the word ‘Trimurti’ is not written, then they will say that Shiv is incorporeal, how will he give knowledge? (Revised Sakar Murli dated 8.8.05, page 2, 3 & 4 published by BKs)

Based on your above views and the fact that you don't visit BK centers, I wish to know if you are laying the foundation for a separate group within the BKs or thinking still further like some of the members here.

mbbhat

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post29 Jul 2008

arjun wrote:If the word ‘Trimurti’ is not written, then they will say that Shiv is incorporeal, how will he give knowledge?”[/color] (Revised Sakar Murli dated 8.8.05, page 2, 3 & 4 published by BKs) Based on your above views and the fact that you don't visit BK centers, I wish to know if you are laying the foundation for a separate group within the BKs or thinking still further like some of the members here.

Dear Arjun soul,

Who are THEY here? Aren't they agyani people? So, Baba clearly states that to educate them, the word Trimurti is needed, right? *It also implies that its necessity is not much to BKs when compared to agyani Bhaktimarg people, right?

You may have full database in soft copy. I have much less, that too hard copies. So, I cannot give instant answers. I am not going to have another separate group. I wish to support BKs. That's all.

Dear Ex- l soul,

I do not have the details of beginning of Yagya. I will have to step slowly. Do you mean to say that the OM RADHE book is not written by Om Radhe and is written by others?.

*Regarding vaanaprastha and 60 years ... I have to check Murlis. You see, I have not taken deep interest in such matters. So, it will take time. Anyhow, you are encouraged to put questions.
*Even after this, I have a doubt. DL left body in 1969. His age would be around 85. But there is a Murli point, "when age of Brahma is 100 years, this (B/B) will leave body", something like this. Now, these are again contradicting each other. I have this doubt from three years. But, I cannot expect rain to come whenever I desire.

*My thinkings will be distributed (cut into) in many posts. If one post, it would be lengthy.
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arjun

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post29 Jul 2008

mbbhat wrote:Who are THEY here? Aren't they agyani people? So, Baba clearly states that to educate them, the word Trimurti is needed, right? *It also implies that its necessity is not much to BKs when compared to agyani Bhaktimarg people, right?

Dear Brother,
Omshanti. You may continue to believe that there is no Trimurti at all. I cannot help you any further on this aspect. By the way, we believe that ShivBaba speaks to His children in the Murlis and I think you too gave the same statement in reply to one of ex-l's post. It is not possible for me to locate your post.
mbbhat wrote:You may have full database in soft copy. I have much less, that too hard copies. So, I cannot give instant answers.

The Murli quotes that I produce in reply to your posts is not an individual effort or a day's work, but a result of collective efforts of PBKs over a long period of time aided by ShivBaba (through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit). Had the BKWSU provided soft copies of Murlis to their own members at least since the time computers began to be used by the Yagya and BKs, you would not have been handicapped in this way.

First of all BKWSU does not provide Murlis (either printed or soft copies) to all its members. And even to the so-called trustworthy BKs whom they provide the soft copies of Murlis through emails it is in PDF format, which is not easy for everyone to change to the Word format. Even the PDF format is in such small fonts that one has to take pains to read it properly.

So, I would suggest you to use your experience as a BK to pursuade BKWSU to make the Murlis public. Or if they still want to keep it secret, they should at least circulate the Murlis as Word files rather than PDF files so that BKs who may be interested in using the Murlis for service through this forum or other fora they could use it. Also they should increase the font size of the letters both in English and Hindi texts.
I am not going to have another separate group. I wish to support BKs. That's all.

Thanks for the reply. Although it is none of my business to ask you why you have stopped going to the BK centers, but I hope you would not mind if I suggest you to be in regular touch with the BKs/BK centers. It would be good for you and us as well. Moreover, if you believe the Murlis and Avyakt Vanis to be true you should also accept Baba's directions that being punctual and regular at the classes is also very important in the Brahmin life.
With regards,
OGS,
Arjun

mbbhat

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post31 Jul 2008

arjun wrote:Omshanti. You may continue to believe that there is no Trimurti at all. I cannot help you any further on this aspect. So, I would suggest you to use your experience as a BK to persuade BKWSU to make the Murlis public. I suggest you to be in regular touch with the BKs/BK centers. It would be good for you and us as well. Moreover, if you believe the Murlis and Avyakt Vanis to be true you should also accept Baba's directions that being punctual and regular at the classes is also very important in the Brahmin life.

Dear Arjun soul,

I had asked you a straight forward question to which answer is just yes or no. But you are not bold enough to reply. You cannot explain your own quote. Instead, you are suggesting me to do something against Shrimat (to make Murlis public).

I am in touch with centres, but not as a regular student. Even though I visit centre twice in a month, I feel all the 8,000 centres as my real home. At present, I have lot of work to write and prepare some materials so that any newcomer can understand knowledge without any (or least) assumtion. After seeing this forum, I have one more work. No one should feel that he was kept in darkness and become ex-BK.

I do not feel any bad about your suggestions. Have a good day (actually good life).
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ex-l

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post31 Jul 2008

I think you are ignoring the issue again mbbhat. The individuals asking for the Murlis are at least 99.999% BKs. Or demi-BKs like yourself.

Where is the Shrimat to exclude them? (In fact, I have never heard of one non-BK who bothered one way or the other). Thank you for confirming how secretive the sect has become.

What other religion on earth seeks to keep its version of God's word secret?

mbbhat

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post05 Aug 2008

Dear Ex- l soul,

Baba has asked in Avyakt Murlis also,

    1) Do not become royal beggar by demanding justice here (in Yagya),
    2) Do you get doubt that, 'even here there is no justice, etc.
So, if one remains satisfied even if Murlis are not given to him, he is a true BK. How many of your mentioned 99.999% were in this category?

It is clearly said in Sakar Murli, "Why do you bother if you don not get Murli? Just rotate swadarshan-chakra".

Other religions want to convert into their religion. They are bothered just in quantity. Hence they spread them. They also misinterpret them according to their needs.

BKs are not bothered just of quantity. They are also bothered about quality at least to some extent, numberwise.
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ex-l

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post05 Aug 2008

mbbhat wrote:So, if one remains satisfied even if Murlis are not given to him, he is a true BK ...

I am sorry. I cannot accept ad hoc 'nuggets' of Gyan from you because even I have noticed too many errors and inaccuracies in the past. You are not of the status to be pronouncing Shrimat for those others ... have you read over their requests? Illness, old age, passionate and naive interest, employment in the forces ... all of them blameless and hardly worthy of punishment and denial.

Any Murlis points you want to present should be given dated and in their full context so we can check them, otherwise they are best ignored as a manipulation of The Knowledge in order to achieve one's own ends.

If I see a direct question to and the answer from BapDada, I might change my mind ... but, in the meanwhile, I will remain of the opinion that it is all about control and the reinforcement of the current leadership's status within the BK community. Popes of the New Age.
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arjun

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post05 Aug 2008

ex-l wrote:I am sorry. I cannot accept ad hoc 'nuggets' of Gyan from you because even I have noticed too many errors and inaccuracies in the past. You are not of the status to be pronouncing Shrimat for those others ... have you read over their requests? Illness, old age, passionate and naive interest, employment in the forces ... all of them blameless and hardly worthy of punishment and denial.

It is no use explaining to Brother mbbhat with logical reasons. He thinks that we are not worthy to receive Murlis from BKWSU. We should be satisfied with whatever volume of Murlis (stolen ones acc. to him) we have or will get in future.

shivsena

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post05 Aug 2008

arjun wrote: It is no use explaining to Brother mbbhat with logical reasons. He thinks that we are not worthy to receive Murlis from BKWSU. We should be satisfied with whatever volume of Murlis (stolen ones acc. to him) we have or will get in future.

I agree fully with arjun Bhai; it is futile to argue with a person who does not even know the basic fact that incorporeal God Shiva needs a Chariot to be revealed and if he cannot answer the basic question as to which is the Chariot of God Shiva which BKs are trying to reveal, then any debate is just a waste of time.

shivsena.
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john

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post05 Aug 2008

mbbhat wrote:It is clearly said in Sakar Murli, "Why do you bother if you don not get Murli? Just rotate swadarshan-chakra".

What it says in Murli is class should be attended every day, Murlis should be read everyday. In the quote above it means if you do not get Murli for one day or a short period because of circumstances.

If you don't know the basics, why do you write. You are just misleading souls.
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ex-l

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post06 Aug 2008

john wrote:What it says in Murli is class should be attended every day, Murlis should be read everyday ... If you don't know the basics, why do you write. You are just misleading souls.

Obviously ... he is someone that does not go to class himself. So, of course, he is going to justify it!

mbbhat

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post07 Aug 2008

Dear Souls,

I will have to create softcopy of Murli and then come back to you. If time permits and I give this priority, I will come back.

mbbhat

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post09 Aug 2008

ONE MORE QUESTION TO PBKs.

agar Radhe-Krishna (RK) kaa raajy kahte hain to yah bhool karte hain. RK kaa raajy to hotaa naheen kyonki donon alag2 raajaayi ke prince princess the. Raajaayi ke maalik to swayamvar ke baad banege-(4-8-99, P. No -01).

The approximate translation is, "it is wrong to say kingdom of Radha-Krishna because they belong to DIFFERENT kingdoms." One becomes owner of kingdom after swayamvar (marriage).

I have heard from a PBK that Radha Krishna are twins and get married to each others. But in the above point, it is mentioned they belong to different kingdoms.

Dear john and ex-l souls,

I am not justifying that I am right by not going to centre regularly. I am justifying that you do not have right to accuse a person if one does not attend classes. When you go to market to buy mango, do you check for quality of the mango or start interviewing the seller about his character? This has happened in your case. Instead of concentrating on Murlis, you have got influenced by negative qualities in BKs!

Dear John soul, Do you have right to tell me why do you write? Anyhow, it is not a problem to me. But you may lose your energy by emotions.
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john

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post09 Aug 2008

mbbhat wrote:Dear John soul, Do you have right to tell me why do you write? Anyhow, it is not a problem to me. But you may lose your energy by emotions.

Yes, I have the right just as I have the right to ask any BK not to pass on misleading information. It is your duty to make sure what you write is correct, it is your duty to ShivaBaba to blow the conch shell of truth. You shouldn't fire shots in the dark, this forum is for all to see.
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