Questions for PBKs

for Prajapita Brahma Kumaris (Advance Party), or those interested in becoming PBKs, to discuss AIVV matters in an open, non-judgemental manner.
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arjun

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post12 Aug 2008

mbbhat wrote:*In many Murlis, Baba has said, "Baba koyi pustak haath mein neheen uthaate hain(Baba does not take any book in his hands)". So do you say now, that the Sakar Murli was for before 1969?

What you say is correct, but through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit, it is not Shiv who is reading the Murlis but the soul of Krishna (Brahma Baba) who is reading.

Even now, you can see there are hundreds of discussion CDs where ShivBaba is giving extempore answers to a variety of questions asked by PBKs. Sometimes a single answer is of such long duration that when conveted to typed script it could be lengthier than many of the edited BK Murlis.

mbbhat wrote:4) I have at least challenged and ready. Are you ready? When a person is challenging you, is this the way to answer? That too when you say PBKs are advance parties, their knowledge and remembrance is better than BKs, Veerendra Dev Dixit is pure since 1976! You all are under his company for so many years, and who believes that just by company, one imbibes qualities of the other (gunagraahi)? Is it wrong if I ask that question to you that too when I am ready to get tested?

I am not here to fight with you or to accept your challenge. I am simply providing the information that I have as a PBK or as a human being. If you are here just to challenge me or to defeat me, then I am sorry I will not be able to answer any of your questions. So, you first decide whether you wish to engage in cordial discussion on matters of knowledge or want me to be silent?
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mbbhat

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post12 Aug 2008

arjun wrote:[1) Since the beginning you mention Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit by name (i.e. as Veerendra Dev Dixit) but whenever we write about senior BKs we don't mention them by name. We add Dadiji or Sister or Brother. So, who is using strong words?

2) I have not used strong words by asking you if you are ShivBaba.

1) PBKs have defamed Brahma Baba like anything, calling Mayavi Krishna, and much more words. Hence I commented Virendra Dev Dixit. I, personally, have witnessed Virendra Dev Dixit's video cassete in a gitapathashala. The point in the Murli was "sabhee guru dubonevaale hain = all the gurus sink you". Then the explanation given by Virendra Dev Dixit was, "who is first human guru? Brahma". I was surprised (actually would have got shocked furious if this would have had happend before 2000) how much PBKs defame Brahma Baba.

* Even after I had posted in the thread accurate Yaad that I do not follow Dadi's, you had pointed their mistakes with me. It was wasting time. You just see Murlis. Why do you see faults in BKs? If you see for analysis, it is OK. But when the topic was accurate Yaad, there was no need of that.

[Of course, ex-Bks have some right to discuss faults in BKs. (Those who are really got abused by BKs)].

2) Is not asking if you are ShivaBaba not attacking personally?

These all were the obstacles here, Maya between us!
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arjun

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post12 Aug 2008

mbbhat wrote:2) Is not asking if you are ShivaBaba not attacking personally?

Dear Brother,

Omshanti. I can go on commenting/answering to your posts and you can go on countering me with your 'tit for tat' attitude, which I am sorry I cannot adopt. But I think if I continue replying to your posts without making you understand that a dialogue in cordial atmosphere is more important than winning challenges, then I think any number of my replies is a wastage of time and hence I (like some other members of this forum) voluntarily wish to be silent to your posts for some time. I think members of this forum are learned enough to form their opinion on my decision.

You can construe my silence to be your victory and you can celebrate it with your well wishers. I wish you good luck.

With regards,
On Godly Service,
Arjun
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ex-l

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post12 Aug 2008

One of the best things I accept from the PBKs, is their understanding that by "human gurus" their god means the gurus within the BKWSU family rather than the ones outside. The "Our-Gurus-Are-Not-Gurus" Gurus, I call them.

Now know we know for sure that there were other earlier mediums (The Golden Circle etc I am thinking of here, not Narian Shewakram in this case as we have no proof for that), who knows the real story, why they left or why the leaders got rid of them? And now we know the history is falsified ... who really does know the real story at all? Where does the falsification start and end? All we have is the falsifiers word for it ... and they wont discuss it.
mbbhat wrote:PBKs have defamed Brahma Baba like anything, calling Mayavi Krishna, and much more words.

At least Krishna is Krishna ... Lekhraj Kirpalani and the original BKs have defamed everyone; kansas, shudras, unself-realised, ignorant, blind, crow-race, Jarasandha, devils ... the list goes on and on and on.

But the first question you have to ask, again, is "what is defamation?" Defamation is not, "saying what the BKWSU does not wants you to say". BKs use the word defamation in such a weak manner. The second question is, "Lekhraj Kirpalani as the first human guru ... is this accurate or not?" By The Knowledge, (and that is not fact just another mythology) probably yes on both counts; Copper and Confluence Ages.

Lekhraj Kirpalani thought he was god for 20 years and there was no other god than him. He accepted the praise of others that he was God Brahma and the inventor of the Gita ... for 20 years. He allowed his followers to re-write the organizations history and cover up all his crazy predictions. Is that not the greatest sin? To think and say that one was is God.

And then if you take it further to accept that his spirit still guides and rules the BKWSU today, then he is still taking praise ... and must accept the responsibility for what is done in his name ... from the big pictures to the abuses etc. So he does not exactly come out looking pure. There is no real evidence that he did reach enlightenment before he died.
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arjun

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post12 Aug 2008

ex-l wrote:Lekhraj Kirpalani thought he was god for 20 years and there was no other god than him. He accepted the praise of others that he was God Brahma and the inventor of the Gita ... for 20 years. He allowed his followers to re-write the organizations history and cover up all his crazy predictions. Is that not the greatest sin? To think and say that one was is God.

And then if you take it further to accept that his spirit still guides and rules the BKWSU today, then he is still taking praise ... and must accept the responsibility for what is done in his name ... from the big pictures to the abuses etc. So he does not exactly come out looking pure. There is no real evidence that he did reach enlightenment before he died.

This is what ShivBaba (through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) means to say when he describes Brahma Baba as a human guru.
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shivsena

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post12 Aug 2008

Dear arjun Bhai.

Is Brahma Baba not playing the same role of human guru during the period Brahma ki raat (from 1989 onwards) and giving his manmat in the form of Advanced Knowledge and leading the PBKs to durgati (behad ka drama repeats itself) ??

shivsena.
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mbbhat

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post17 Aug 2008

But then why do PBKs say Brahma Baba will not get any punishment!?
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yogi108

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post19 Aug 2008

You know this PBK and the BK arguments are really getting to me and its quite silly at times, when there is a BK thing going, for Arjun to butt in and say what happens in the PBK world like the Rakhi tying stuff!!!

And, Brother, I have observed that "ShivBaba says (Through Veerendra Dickshit)" ... in every single post.

I guess, by now, everyone here knows that 'ShivBaba can only speak through Virendra Dev Dixit' according to the PBKs so let's leave those explanations.

And my simple advice to practicing BKs is, to actually leave the PBKs alone since they have every right to hold on to their faith as much as you hold on to yours ...

Yogi
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arjun

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post19 Aug 2008

yogi108 wrote:And Brother I have observed that ShivBaba says (Through Veerendra Dickshit)... in every single post. I guess by now everyone here knows that ShivBaba can only speak through Veerendra Dev Dixit according to the PBKs so let's leave those explanations.

I have no objection to writing just ShivBaba, without adding 'through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit' in brackets. It was only on the directions of the Admin of this forum that I have been adding those words in brackets. He had opined that in order to make things clear to the new members/non-BKs, it is advisable to add those words in brackets. Leaving those words would actually help me by reducing the physical strain, but I would stop using those words only when the Admin issues a fresh guideline.

Thanks,
Arjun
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ex-l

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post19 Aug 2008

yogi108 wrote:And, Brother, I have observed that "ShivBaba says (Through Veerendra Dickshit)" ... in every single post.

I think it might have been you that had a grumble about arjun and I appearing like a "good policeman-bad policeman" act ... but what he says is true.

Early on, there was a bit of a "Baba" War going on and the rest of got sick of have to decipher 'which' Baba was which and so we all agreed on making the PBKs qualify it with Virendra Dev Dixit ... which they have been quite reasonable and polite about doing in my opinion.

Thank you for the rest of your post though. It too is highly reasonable. No one is going to "win" either way through arid intellectualism and the soapbox panditry beloved of bharatwasis ... it is tiresome. I would much prefer sincere questions asked to 'find an answer'. There is something about the posturing involved in insincere questions that puts me right off.
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arjun

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post19 Aug 2008

ex-l wrote:Thank you for the rest of your post though. It too is highly reasonable. No one is going to "win" either way through arid intellectualism and the soapbox panditry beloved of bharatwasis ... it is tiresome. I would much prefer sincere questions asked to 'find an answer'. There is something about the posturing involved in insincere questions that puts me right off.

I too agree. This was the reason I have taken a small break from answering mbbhat's questions. He had taken it as a challenge and used to produce many more questions for every answer that I gave to his queries. This was apart from the unrelated comments that he used to make, which unfortunately was not liked by many members. It is only after tom requested me to stop responding to his posts that I took a temporary break.
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mbbhat

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post14 Sep 2008

1) Many BKs after becoming ex-Bks and ex-PBks have returned back to BKWSU and become BKs again. How many such examples are there in PBKs?
2) There are cases of baandheliyaan (those who are kept in bondages) in BKs. Are there such cases in PBKs?
3) In The Ladder picture, it is written that population 500 crores at the end of Kaliyug. But why PBKs say that it is 700 crores?
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arjun

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post14 Sep 2008

mbbhat wrote:1) Many BKs after becoming ex BKs and ex PBKs have returned back to BKWSU and become BKs again. How many such examples are there in PBKs?
2) There are cases of baandheliyaan (those who are kept in bondages) in BKs. Are there such cases in PBKs?

There are many such examples.
3) In The Ladder picture, it is written that population 500 crores at the end of Kaliyug. But why PBKs say that it is 700 crores?

7 billion is nearer to the actual human population at present, whereas 5 billion was the approximate population at the time when Brahma Baba was alive. But since the figure of 5 billion was quoted by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba, its clarified in the advanced knowledge that 5 billion human souls are those that think and churn, whereas the other 2 billion do not play any significant role in this world drama. They simply come and go.
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mbbhat

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post16 Sep 2008

arjun wrote:There are many such examples.

Can I meet them? When did Virendra Dixit (or Shiv through him, anything) speak this 2 billion souls?. So PBKs have two populations 5 and 7 billions. Was there anything like 5 and 6 billions [or anything different] before?
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ex-l

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post16 Sep 2008

mbbhat wrote:So PBKs have two populations 5 and 7 billions.

No.

The God of the BKWSU, in the Murlis and teaching posters, said that there were only 5 Billion human souls. We have question before why the "God of all religions" does not know how many children he has.

I guess Virendra Dev Dixit, or ShivBaba (through Veerendra Dev Dixit), has tried to make sense of that anomaly and explain it as he has done. The BKWSU has never answered why God did not know how many human beings there were ... only the humans within the BKWSU have re-written the Murlis to hide this.

You will see in the early documentation, he also make equally bananas predictions of the number of individuals who were going to be killed ... but then, at that time, they did think WWII was the end of the world and that the Yagya was only going to last 12 years. Have you read any of the old documents in the Library, mbbhat?
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