Points for churning

"Yah aankhein criminal hain, koi ko dekhney say vikaar ki drishti jaati hai toh unkay 84 janma nahi hongey. Vah nar say Narayan nahi ban sakengey ... Isliye Baba kahtey hain roz raat ko apney ko dekho. Agar sapoot bachhey hain toh chart bhejein. Bhal koi chart likhtey hain, parantu saath may yah likhtey nahi ki hamney kisko dukh diya va yah bhool kee. ... Toh Baba sabko raay detey hain chart may yah bhi likho –aankhon nay dhokha toh nahi diya? Paap toh nahi kiya? Aankhein koi na koi baat may dhokha jaroor deti hain. Aankhein bilkul sheetal ho jaani chaahiye. Apney ko ashareeri samjho. Yah karmaateet avastha pichaadi may hogi. So bhi jab Baba ko apna chart bhej dengey. Bhal Dharmaraj kay register may sab jamaa ho jaata hai automatically. Parantu jabki baap saakaar may aaye hain toh kahtey hain saakaar ko maloom padna chaahiye. Toh khabardaar karengey. ... Likhtey hain hum kisko dukh nahi detey hain. Baba kahengey achha, chart lekar aana toh dekhengey. Baba bulaayengey bhi aisey achhey bachhey ko ham dekhein toh sahi. Sapoot bachhon ko baap bahut pyaar kartey hain." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 15.8.05, page 1-4)

"These eyes are criminal. If the vision becomes vicious by looking at anyone, then they will not take 84 births. They will not be able to transform from a man to Narayan ... That is why Baba says, check yourself in the night daily. If you are a worthy child then send your chart. Although some children write chart, they do not write along with it if they have caused any sorrow to anyone or if they have committed any mistake ... So Baba advices everyone to also write in the chart whether the eyes have deceived or not? Whether you have committed any sin or not? Eyes definitely deceive in some matter or the other. Eyes should become completely cool. Consider yourself to be bodiless. This karmateet stage(the stage beyond actions) will be achieved in the end, that too when you send your chart to Baba. Although everything gets accumulated in the register of Dharmaraj automatically, but when Father has come in a corporeal form then He says that the corporeal medium should also know. Then he will caution ... Children write that we do not cause sorrow to anyone. Baba will say, ‘OK, bring your chart, then I will see.’ Baba will also call such good children, ‘Let me see.’ Father loves the worthy children very much.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 15.8.05, page 1-4 published by BKs)
- Baba is telling that “This karmateet stage will be achieved in the end, that too when you send your chart.” When BapDada enters into Gulzar Dadi then children are not allowed to directly submit their chart to him. And in the remaining time Baba is not present in Madhuban, Mt. Abu. Then whom do we send the chart? It is not sufficient if we tell the point of light incorporeal Father in the mind because Baba is telling above that the corporeal medium must know. Then where is that corporeal medium, who will read the charts and call the good children to meet him?

Murli POINTS 31 (ONE CAN’T KNOW WHEN ShivBaba ENTERS)

• "Baba ko maaloom thodey hee padta hai. ShivBaba kee aatma kaisey aati jaati hai. Aisey bhi nahi, sadaiv ismay rahti hai. Toh yahee chintan karnaa hai. Tum bachhon ko Baap aisa gyaan detey hain jo kabhi koi ko mil na sakey." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 18.8.05, page 1)

• "Baba does not know how the soul of ShivBaba comes and goes. It is also not true that it (Soul of ShivBaba) remains in this body always. So one must think only about this. Father gives you children such a knowledge which cannot be attained by anyone at any time. ” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 18.8.05, page 1 published by BKs)
- Baba is telling that “Baba does not know how the soul of ShivBaba comes and goes.” When BapDada enters into Gulzar Dadi (along with a jerk of the body and some physical changes) then children immediately come to know about his entering into her body. Then is it Father Shiva who is entering into the body of Gulzar Dadi or is it only the subtle bodied Brahma who is entering into her?

Dear Brother Arjun

Re : Murli Point 31 - this may have been answered elsewhere but what are the signs that the soul of ShivBaba has entered a Chariot/body ?

Anyway, I'd like to give thanks for your continuing efforts this year posting various Murli and dharna points, as well as extracts, in this subforum. More and more is being revealed I feel.

Regards
Bansy

what are the signs that the soul of ShivBaba has entered a Chariot/body ?

ShivBaba has Himself given an indication about the sign of His entry into the corporeal medium. He has said in a Sakar Murli narrated through Brahma Baba that one could know about His entry when He gives knowledge.

But since there were no other corporeal media of Shiv at the time of Brahma Baba, it was easy for the BKs to recognize whenever Shiv entered into Brahma Baba and narrated knowledge. But now that there are many corporeal media (one of whom is the genuine one) with everyone narrating knowledge, it is up to us to decide which knowledge / source of knowledge is true.

Thanks for the appreciation, but I am only instrument in this Godly task. Thanks to Baba for giving us a chance to share knowledge with each other.
Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

Murli PT. NO. 32 (NO NEED TO TIE RAKHI)

• "Brahmakumar-Brahmakumariyan baith pavitrata kee pratigya karaaney kee raakhi baandhti hain. Baap kahtey hain maamekam Yaad karo toh tum paavan ban paavan duniya kay maalik ban jaayengey. Baaki koi raakhi aadi baandhney kee darkaar nahi hai." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 19.8.05, page 2)

• "Brahmakumar-Brahmakumaris sit and tie the Rakhi of enabling one to take the pledge of purity. Father says remember only me, then you will become pure and also become the masters of pure world. As regard the Rakhi, there is no need to tie Rakhi etc.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 19.8.05, page 2 published by BKs)
- Baba is telling that “there is no need to tie Rakhi etc.” But it has been observed since many years that both in the headquarters Mt. Abu and in the BK centres, raakhis are tied by the Dadis or Sisters and they also accept money in return (many a times openly, and not in covers, as should be the method of incognito service). Baba is asking us to take a pledge of purity. Then, is there any need to tie a physical rakhi?

Murli PT.NO. 33 (Brahma’S DAY AND NIGHT)

• "Gyaan say din, Bhakti say raat kaisey hoti hai – yah bhi koi samajhtey nahi hain. Kahengey Brahma tatha Brahma mukhvanshavali Brahmanon kaa din fir unhee Brahmanon kee raat. Din aur raat yahaan hota hai, yah koi nahi samajhtey. Prajapita Brahma kee raat, toh jaroor unkay Brahma mukhvanshavali Brahmanon kee bhi raat hogi. Aadhakalp din, aadhakalp raat." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 22.8.05, page 1 & 2)

• "Nobody understands – how day is brought about through knowledge and how night is brought about by Bhakti. They say ‘day of Brahma and Brahma’s mouth born progeny Brahmins and then the night of the same Brahmins. Nobody understands that day and night are here only. When it is the night of Prajapita Brahma, then certainly it will also be the night of Brahma’s mouth born progeny Brahmins. Half-kalpa day and half Kalpa night.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 22.8.05, page 1 & 2 published by BKs, and narrated by Father Shiv through Brahma Baba)

- In the broad drama of 5000 years there will not be any Brahma or or mouth born Brahmins, then how can the 2500 years period of Golden and Silver Age be called as Brahma’s day and the next 2500 years period of Copper and Iron Age as Brahma’s night?
- Brahma and Brahmins are in the Confluence Age, so the Brahma’s day and night also must be in the Confluence Age only, isn’t it? Does it mean that when God Shiva is directly present in the form of Prajapita Brahma before the eyes of Brahmin children, it is the Brahma’s day and when children are under the illusion that God Shiva has returned to the Soul World (while actually it is not so) it is the Brahma’s night?

Murli Pt.No. 34 - (ENTRY OF Mama AND Baba INTO CHILDREN)

• "Bahut kahtey hain hamaarey may Mama aati hai, ShivBaba aatey hain parantu nayi-nayi points toh mukarrar tan dwara hee sunayengey ki doosrey kisi dwara sunayengey. Yah ho nahi sakta. Aisey toh bachhiyan bhi bahut prakaar kee points apni bhi sunaati hain. Magazine may kitni baatein aati hain. Aisey nahi ki Mamma-Baba unmay aatey, vah likhvaatey hain. Nahi, Baap toh yahaan direct aatey hain, tab toh yahaan sun-ney ke liye aatey ho. Agar Mamma-Baba koi may aatey hain, toh fir vahaan hee baith unsay padhein. Nahi, yahaan aaney kee sabko kashish hoti hai. Door rahney vaalon ko aur hee jaasti kashish hoti hai." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 27.8.05, page 3)

• "Many say that Mama comes in us, ShivBaba comes, but is it that the newer points be narrated only through the fixed body or through anyone else? This cannot happen. Even Sisters (bachhiyan) also narrate many kinds of points of their own. So many points appear in the magazine! It is not so, that Mama and Baba come in them, or they cause them to write. No; Father comes here directly; only then do you come here to listen. If Mama and Baba enter into someone, then they can sit there itself and study through them. No, everyone feels attracted to come here. Those who live far away get more attracted.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 27.8.05, page 3 published by BKs)
- Baba is telling that the newer points will be narrated only through the body fixed in the drama. BKs say that earlier Shiv used to enter into Brahma Dada Lekhraj, and then he is now entering Gulzar Dadi. So, which is the fixed body? Is it Brahma Dada Lekhraj or Gulzar Dadi or anyone else?
- In another Murli it has been said that Baba will keep narrating new points till the end. The Avyakt Vanis being narrated through Gulzar Dadi mostly contain Dharana points, which are being repeated since 1969. Then through which human body are new points related to the beginning, middly and end of the world drama being narrated?
- Baba is telling that Father comes here directly. BKs say that incorporeal Shiv first leaves the Soul World and enters into the subtle body of Brahma in the Subtle Region and then both of them enter into the body of Gulzar Dadi. This cannot be called as a direct entry, isn’t it? Then in whom does Shiv enter directly, just as He used to enter into the body of Brahma Dada Lekhraj?

Murli PT. No. 35 (COLLECTION OF FUNDS)

• "Baba kay bahut dekhey huay hain. Koi badaa sanyaasi aata hai toh bahut unkay followers hotay hain. Fund (chanda) ikattha kartey hain. Apni-apni taaqat anusaar funds nikaaltey hain. Yahaan baap toh aisey nahi kahengey- funds ikattha karo. Nahi, yahaan toh jo beej boyengey 21 janma uska fal paayengey." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 29.8.05, page 2)

• "Baba has seen many people. If a renowned sanyasi comes, he has many followers. They collect funds. They contribute funds as per their individual capacity. Here Father will not say – collect funds. No. Whoever sows the seeds here will get its fruits for 21 births.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 29.8.05, page 2 published by BKs)
- Baba is telling that we should not collect funds, while it is commonly seen at the BK centres that the BK teachers keep collecting funds in the name of some or the other programme or construction of buildings. Is it not a violation of above mentioned Shrimat?

Murli PT. No. 36 - (KINGDOM OF WORLD)

• "Abhi jaantey ho Baba fir say aakar hamko vishwa kee baadshaahi detey hain. Koi kee buddhi may nahi aayega ki vishwa ki baadshahi kya hoti hai. Vishwa maana saari duniya." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 01.09.05, page 2)

• "Now you know that Baba has come again and is giving us the kingship of the world. It will not strike the intellect of anyone else as to what is the kingship of the world (vishwa kee baadshaahi)? ‘Vishwa’ means entire world.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 01.09.05, page 2 published by BKs and narrated by Father Shiv through Brahma Baba)

- Baba is telling that He is giving us the kingship of the world and that ‘vishwa’ means the entire world. But the picture of Lakshmi-Narayan published by the BKs shows only the map of India. Then the Golden Aged Lakshmi-Narayan will be called only the Emperor of India and not the World Emperor. Are the souls, who get revealed as the mother and Father or Emperor & Empress of the entire world and all the souls of the world different (from the souls which become Lakshmi-Narayan in the Golden Age)?

Murli PT. No. 37 (FATHER-TEACHER-SATGURU – 3 IN 1)

• "Baap satya hai, satya shikshak bhi hai, Satguru bhi hai. Kab sunaa hee nahi. Abhi arth sahit tum samajhtey ho…....Yahaan toh wonder hai-baap, teacher, Satguru sab ek hee hai. Baap kahtey hain, mai saath lay chaloonga." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 01.09.05, page 2)

• "Father is truth. He is a true teacher also, Satguru (true preceptor) too. It was never heard of. Now you understand meaningfully. ... Here it is a wonder – Father, Teacher and Satguru – all are one only. Father says I will take you along with me.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 01.09.05, page 2 published by BKs and narrated by Father Shiv through Brahma Baba)
- Baba is telling that here Father, Teacher and Satguru are all in one. There is no doubt that a mother’s role was played through Brahma Baba, but the role of giving inheritance as a Father, giving clarifications of our Gita, i.e. Murlis as a teacher and granting mukti (salvation) and jeevanmukti (true salvation) as a Satguru was not played. Then, will the task of playing all these three roles through one be fulfilled through some other human body? Baba is telling that he will take us along with him. But Brahma Baba did not take anyone along with him. Then will the role of taking along with Him be played through some other personality?

Murli PT.No. 38 - (PRAJAPITA –PBKs)

• "Tum toh ho sena. Tumhaara naam hee hai Prajapita Brahmakumar-kumariyan (PBKs), koi bhi andar aaye, pehley-pehley toh ye poocho ki kahaan say aaye ho? Kiskey paas aaye ho? Kahengey ham BK kay paas aaye hain. Achha Brahma kaun hai? Prajapita Brahma ka naam kabhi suna hai? Haan Prajapita kay toh tum bhi bachhey ho. Praja toh sab ho gaye na. Tumhaara baap hai, tum sirf jaantey nahi ho. Brahma bhi jaroor kisi ka bachha hoga na." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 03.09.05, page 2)

• "You are the army. Your name is Prajapita Brahmakumar-kumaris. If anyone comes inside, first of all ask them, “Where have you come from? Whom have you come to meet?” They will say, “We have come to meet B.K (Brahmakumar).” O.K. Who is Brahma? Have you ever heard the name of Prajapita Brahma? Yes, you are also children of Prajapita. Praja (subjects) includes everyone, isn’t it? He is your Father. Only thing is that you don’t know him. Brahma is also certainly somebody’s child, isn’t it?” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 03.09.05, page 2 published by BKs)

- Baba is telling that your name is PBK, but the members of Brahmakumari organization call themselves BKs. Should they also be called PBKs?
- Baba is telling that Praja (subjects) includes everyone, i.e. the entire world. BKs call Dada Lekhraj as Prajapita Brahma, but he was accepted as Prajapita Brahma only by a few souls during his lifetime. So is the soul which plays the role of Prajapita different from Brahma Dada Lekhraj?
- Baba is telling that Brahma is also certainly somebody’s child. On the basis of Murlis we all know that Brahma Baba could not understand the meanings of divine visions caused to him for a long time. Is Baba referring to the person, through whom He clarified the meanings of divine visions caused to Brahma by telling above that “Brahma is also certainly somebody’s child?”

Murli PT. No. 39 (INDIVIDUL SERVICE FORMS)

• "Tumhaarey paas koi bhi aatey hain toh unko alag-alag samjhaao, Karachi may ek-ek ko alag-alag baith samjhaatey thay. ... Isliye Baba kahtey hain alag-alag bithaao, fir samjhaao. Form bharaao toh maaloom padega, kyunki koi kisko maan-ney vaala hoga, koi kisko. Sabko ikathha kaisey samjhaayengey. Apni-apni baat sunaaney lag padengey. Pehley-pehley toh poochna chaahiye kahaan aaye ho? BK ka naam suna hai? Prajapita Brahma tumhaara kya lagta hai? Kabhi naam sunaa hai? Tum Prajapita Brahma kee santaan nahi ho? Hum toh practical may hain. Ho tum bhi, parantu samajhtey nahi ho. Samjhaaney kee badee yukti chaahiye." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 05.09.05, page 3 & 4)

• "Whoever comes to you, explain them individually. At Karachi, they used to explain each individually. ... That is why Baba says, “Make them sit separately and then explain.” Get the form filled up. Then you will know (their views), because somebody believes in someone and somebody in someone else. How will you explain everyone collectively? They start expressing their individual views. First of all they should be asked, “Where have you come? Have you heard the name of B.K.? What is your relationship with Prajapita Brahma? Have you ever heard his name? Are you not the child of Prajapita Brahma? We are his children practically. You are also children, but you do not realize that.” One needs to explain tactfully.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 05.09.05, page 3 & 4 published by BKs)

- Baba is asking us to explain individually and to get the form filled up. Are the BKs doing that?
- Baba is asking us to explain the visitors that we are the children of Prajapita Brahma practically. But BKs say that Prajapita Brahma is in the Subtle Region. So how can we call ourselves to be the children of Prajapita Brahma practically?”

Murli PT. No. 40 (TRUE Trimurti)

• "Yah Lakshmi Narayan ka chitra toh bahut achha hai. Ismay sirf likhna hai ek hee satya Trimurti ShivBaba, Satya Trimurti Shiv Teacher, Satya Trimurti Shiv Guru. Trimurti akshar nahi likhengey toh samjhengey parmaatma toh niraakaar hai, vah teacher kaisey ho sakta hai. ." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 06.09.05, page 2)

• "This picture of Lakshmi Narayan is very good. It must only be written in it – True Trimurti ShivBaba, True Trimurti Shiv Teacher, True Trimurti Shiv Guru. If you don’t write the word ‘Trimurti’ then they will think that Shiv is incorporeal, how can he be a teacher.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 06.09.05, page 2 published by BKs and narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba)

- Baba is telling that the word ‘Trimurti’ should certainly be written, while BKs are not using the picture of Trimurti or the word in most of the programmes or pamphlets. Is it in accordance with Shrimat to reveal Trimurti Dadis instead of True Trimurti ShivBaba?
- In the picture of Trimurti published by BKs the picture of Dada Lekhraj has been shown in the place of Brahma, but who plays the role of Shankar and Vishnu?
- BKs say that ShivBaba is in Paramdham. Then where is Baba playing the role of True Trimurti ShivBaba, Teacher and Guru?”

Murli PT.No. 41 (DIRECTION THROUGH BODY)

• "Chitra bhi hain, koi say poochana chaahiye Gita ka Bhagwaan kaun hai? Mukhya baat hee yah hai. Bhagwaan toh ek hee hota hai, jis say varsa milta hai muktidhaam ka. ... Gaayan bhi hai na – jo khilaayengey, jahaan bithaayengey, jo direction dengey vah karengey. Direction toh jaroor tan dwara hee dengey na." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 19.09.05, page 4)

• "Pictures are also available. You must ask anyone who is the God of Gita? The main issue itself is this. God is only one, from whom we get the inheritance of muktidhaam (abode of salvation)... There is even a song, isn’t it –whatever you feed, wherever you ask me to sit, what ever directions you give me I will follow. Directions will definitely be given through a body, isn’t it?” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 19.09.05, page 4 published by BKs and narrated by Father Shiv through Brahma Baba)

- Baba is telling that God is only one, from whom we get the inheritance of muktidhaam (abode of salvation). If Dada Lekhraj Brahma is considered to be the only corporeal form of God, then we have not obtained the inheritance of salvation/true salvation from him. Then which is that only form through whom we get the inheritance of salvation/true salvation?
- Baba is telling that directions will be certainly given through a body. During the lifetime of Brahma Baba directions used to be received at every step, but how can we get directions at every step now? The Avyakt Vanis are narrated only on a few fixed dates for some time. They are general directions and not for a particular circumstance or individual or group. So through whom and where are such directions being issued by ShivBaba?

Murli PT. NO. 42 (NOTHING CAN BE DONE THROUGH INSPIRATION)

• "Abhi tum jaantey ho hamaara Baba aaya hua hai inmay. Is shareeer ki apni aatma bhi hai, fir Parampita Parmatma kahtey hain - mai inkay rath par viraajmaan hoon. Isliye BapDada kahtey ho. Ab Dada ko toh in aankhon say dekhtey ho, Baap ko nahi dekhtey ho. Jaantey ho Baba Gyan ka saagar hai, vah is shareeer dwara hamko gyaan sunaa rahey hain. Vah gyaan ka saagar patit-paavan hai. Niraakaar raasta kaisey bataayengey? Prerana say toh koi kaam nahi hota. Bhagwaan aatey hain, yah kisko bhi pata nahi hai. Shivjayanti bhi manaatey hain, toh jaroor yahaan aata hoga na. Tum jaantey ho abhi vah hamko padha rahey hain." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 22.09.05, page 2)

• "Now you know that our Baba has come in him. This body has its own soul, and then the Supreme Father Supreme Soul says – I am sitting in his Chariot. That is why you say BapDada. Now you see Dada through these eyes; you do not see Bap. You know that Baba is ocean of knowledge. He is narrating knowledge to us through this body. He is ocean of knowledge and purifier of the sinful. How can the incorporeal show the path? Nothing can be done through inspiration. Nobody knows that God comes. Shivjayanti (birthday of Shiv) is also celebrated. So certainly he must be coming here, isn’t it? You know that He is now teaching us.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 22.09.05, page 2 published by BKs)
- Baba is telling that nothing can be done through inspiration. He has to certainly come here and give knowledge. BKs say that the incorporeal Shiv narrated knowledge through Brahma for some time and then went back to Paramdham. If the incorporeal Shiv had to give knowledge from Paramdham itself then why was it necessary for him to enter into Brahma by descending on the earth?
- Baba is saying that he is narrating knowledge and teaching us now. So where is He giving knowledge?