Food for thought for all PBKs

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bansy

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Post27 Apr 2007

He says that He gives the inheritance of the new world amidst the old world.

A non-Raja Yoga reply, but from one of the Zen stories.

A new stream is formed from a melting glacier, and it gathers speed becoming a river as it flows down the mountain, carving and winding its way through the rocks and earth and mud.

It comes across a fallen tree over its path, the river doesn't just stop and wait for the obstacle to move or for the wind to blow it away. It simply finds a way through it, around it, over it, and the river happily continues on its unknown journey, and may even carry that fallen timber along with it. And the river eventually flows into ...

shivsena

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Post27 Apr 2007

arjun wrote: He says that he lets the sins grow until the pot of sins becomes full.

Whose sins are becoming full; the PBKs or the BKs???
In the end when the role of Dharmaraj or Satguru begins then nobody would be spared.

Again Murli says all 3 parts are played together and you say that the part of Bap-teacher-satguru is fractured and the role of Satguru will be played in the end; is there any Murli which says that the 3 roles are played at different times.
He does not establish the land of truth (sachkhand) after the destruction of the entire world, but in the midst of the land of untruth (jhoothkhand). That is why He says that He gives the inheritance of the new world amidst the old world.

That is what i want to know, which is this land of untruth (jhoot) which ShivBaba will convert into sachkhand; is it the BKs or PBKs??? The outside world will be converted into sachkhand only from 2037 (when 100 years of Sangamyug are over) and this is as per continous drama of 5000 years and bindi ShivBaba does not have any hand in changing the outside world. So which jhoot khand will become sach khand in the near future?? BK world or PBK world; that is the million dollar question. (If this is not understood then nothing can be understood.)

shivsena
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arjun

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Post28 Apr 2007

Shivsena wrote:Whose sins are becoming full; the PBKs or the BKs???

PBKs, BKs and non-BKs, all three.
Again Murli says all 3 parts are played together and you say that the part of Bap-teacher-Satguru is fractured and the role of Satguru will be played in the end; is there any Murli which says that the 3 roles are played at different times.

As far as I know it has been said in the Sakar Murlis that the roles of the Father, Teacher and Satguru would be played through the same personality and it has not been mentioned that it would take place at the same time.

"Baap satya hai, satya shikshak bhi hai, Satguru bhi hai. Kab sunaa hee nahi. Abhi arth sahit tum samajhtey ho ... Yahaan toh wonder hai-baap, teacher, Satguru sab ek hee hai. Baap kahtey hain, mai saath lay chaloonga." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 01.09.05, page 2)
"Father is truth. He is a true teacher also, Satguru (true preceptor) too. It was never heard of. Now you understand meaningfully ... Here it is a wonder – Father, Teacher and Satguru – all are one only. Father says I will take you along with me." (Revised Sakar Murli dated 01.09.05, page 2 published by BKs)

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

shivsena

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Post29 Apr 2007

arjun wrote:PBKs, BKs and non-BKs, all three.

Dear arjun Bhai.

So which world will become narak (jhoot khand - vaishyalay) first and which world will become swarg or shivalay first. Since everything starts from the seed world then by logic, first the PBK world will become hell (vaishyalay) which will then be converted into heaven (shivalay) by Ramshivbaba in the near future and then the BK world and the outside world will follow. Is that not the right sequence?

shivsena.
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arjun

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Post29 Apr 2007

Since everything starts from the seed world then by logic, first the PBK world will become hell (vaishyalay) which will then be converted into heaven(shivalay) by Ramshivbaba in the near future and then the BK world and the outside world will follow. Is that not the right sequence?

Yes, that is correct. But you say that it would become somewhere in the future, but ShivBaba says that already some souls are experiencing heaven within the hell numberwise on the basis of their efforts.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

shivsena

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Post30 Apr 2007

arjun wrote: Is having a divine vision a pre-requisite to become that deity? In hundreds of Murlis ShivBaba has said that one should not depend or waste time on divine visions. In umpteen Murlis Baba has said that those who had divine visions in the beginning did not continue in the path of knowledge and ran away. So, does that mean that if the soul of Ram did not have the divine vision of Ram or Narayan in the beginning of the Yagya, he cannot become the Confluence-Aged Ram or Narayan?

If the soul of Krishna (Dada Lekhraj) who does not have his own body (like angels and ghosts) and plays a part through Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit, is to get revealed in the end as Confluence-Aged Krishna, then angels would have been worshipped in India. But it is not the case. Here corporeal deities are worshipped, whereas people of other religions believe in angels. It is the personality through whom Shiv gets revealed that gets worshipped in the form of Confluence-Aged Ram/Narayan/Krishna and not the soul of Krishna that enters into it.

Dear arjun Bhai.

I have read and re-read your reply several times and i am shocked to see how you have interpreted the whole meaning of visions given to Lekhraj Kirpalani. I am wondering whether it is the same humble arjun Bhai who never answers anything unless he is 100% sure and, if he is not sure, makes it a point to clarify with Baba before answering? Up until now i was thinking that arjun Bhai can read the minds of his fellow PBKs and can give answers on their behalf. But now i see that, he can also read the mind of Shivbap and know the meaning of the visions which Shivbap gives to others. This is something which i did not know and i am at a total loss to comment on your interpretations.

If you were not able to answer my query and would have written that i will ask ShivBaba(through Virendra Dev Dixit) about the ambiguity of the ''adi-so-anth" visions given to Lekhraj Kirpalani, then i would have been more happy and understood your position. Almost every PBK, whom i have been asking this query in Mumbai has no answer and is virtually taken aback with this simple ambiguity of Advanced Knowledge. Many have also said that, this is such a logical query that they were wondering why was it never raised by anyone before. But the way you have chosen to interpret this vital query is just beyond me and, in short, i am truly disappointed.

shivsena.
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ex-l

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Re: Food for thought for all PBKs.

Post30 Apr 2007

shivsena wrote:In the beginning of the Yagya in 1937, Shivbap gave visions of Krishna / Narayan / Vishnu to Dada Lekhraj (Krishna's soul) and the explanations of these visions was given by Shivbap through' Sevakram (Ram's soul).

If Advanced Knowledge claims that Ram becomes Sangamyugi Krishna and Narayan, then Ram should have been given the visions in the beginning in 1937 and not Krishna.

I am continuing to read Om Radhe writings, which for all intents and purposes are published in the name of the Prajapati Brahma-kumaris and so must be accepted as "official" documents on behalf of the organization.
    In 1939, she gives the date of 1932 for the retirement of Lekhraj Kirpalani, start of the satsangs, and 1935 for the start of Om Mandli.
    In 1943, she give "August 1938" as the establishment date of the Yagya, a Yagya she writed will last 12 years.
    And, of course, we all know the 1936 figure is the one the BKs now prefers.
Do we know what the significance of 1936 was picked as the date, especially given the light that there was no mention of Shiv then? Was it a date chosen by Lekhraj Kirpalani at a later point when he looked back?

Could one of you PBKs supply us with a simple chronology, with character names and dates, according to your current understanding as a foundation for this research?
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arjun

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Post30 Apr 2007

I have read and re-read your reply several times and I am shocked to see how you have interpreted the whole meaning of visions given to Dada Lekhraj. I am wondering whether it is the same humble arjun Bhai who never answers anything unless he is 100% sure and, if he is not sure, makes it a point to clarify with Baba before answering? Up until now I was thinking that arjun Bhai can read the minds of his fellow PBKs and can give answers on their behalf. But now I see that, he can also read the mind of Shivbap and know the meaning of the visions which Shivbap gives to others. This is something which I did not know and I am at a total loss to comment on your interpretations.

Dear Brother,

Omshanti. It is surprising that while you conveniently escape answering even the simplest of my questions, you continue to pass judgements on others (who differ with you) and shower praises on others (who agree with you) in a Shakespearian language. First of all I wish to clarify that I neither write here as a representative of Baba Virendra Dev Dixit nor as a representative of PBKs. I am writing here as an individual PBK or simply as a human being and I am responsible for whatever mistakes or otherwise that I commit. If I feel that I do not know anything I seek answers/comments from ShivBaba (through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) and convey it through this forum. I also seek answers from Baba whenever any other member (PBK or otherwise) expresses any opinion that seems to differ from mine or if they say that my reply is not in line with the Advanced Knowledge.

Many such Q&A are in the pipeline. As I have already said many times that due to lack of human resources, the official replies (and their translations) from Baba get delayed. If you interpret the delayed response otherwise (to be 'unkingly'), then it is your sweet will. I don't mind getting any/no post which you enumerate repeatedly.

If I seek answers from Baba and communicate to you, then you say that you don't have power to think on your own. And when I write on my own as an individual you say that how can you write like this or that why did not you seek answers from Baba. When I am unable to read your mind how can I read the mind of Father Shiv?

Many a times I decided that I would not reply to your queries/views, but did not do so due to reasons I cannot reveal here. But you are forcing me to think of that option repeatedly by passing personal comments. I don't mind becoming silent towards your posts if my silence would bring joy to you. My silence to your posts would give me more time for Godly service behind the curtains while you fight the royal war with fellow kings.

The guidelines of this forum say that members should not pass judgemental comments on fellow members. So, I request the Admin. to take note of the situation that has been persisting since a very long time.

Henceforth, I will not respond to any of your queries or views without getting my answer verified by ShivBaba (through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit). It would be good for me as well as many other PBKs who might be doubting whether my replies are in accordance with Shrimat or not. Since that would take quite some time, my response/Baba's reply may be delayed.

You can interpret/comment on this last post addressed to you in any manner that you deem fit.

Regards,
On Godly Service,
Arjun

shivsena

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Post30 Apr 2007

Dear arjun Bhai.

Just answer me very frankly, do you still feel 100% that the visions of Krishna, which were given to Lekhraj Kirpalani in the beginning, were just to mislead him; whereas the real Krishna who was to be revealed in the end of Sangamyug was to be Ram's soul (who was never given any visions)? And that Shivbap laid the foundation of the Yagya with this so called mis-directed visions to Lekhraj Kirpalani so now the same Krishna's soul (who realised that he is not going to become Sangamyugi Krishna) is now mis-leading the BKs as well as the PBKs?

Is this what is going on in the Yagya and is this how the foundation of the new world laid by Shivbap ???

Shivsena.

shivsena

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Post01 May 2007

Dear arjun Bhai and PBK Brothers.

When the BKs added ''question and answer'' in the beginning of Sakar revised Murlis, the Advance Party was quick to point out that, this is the subtle shooting of bhakti-marg in the BK world. But the same thing is being practised in the PBK world, when ''question and answer'' session is added after the morning Murli class and the same is recorded on cds. So this is proof enough, that the same subtle shooting of bhakti-marg is also going in the Advance Party and only in the end of the shooting period, when Ramshivbaba starts giving the true Gita Gyan, then there will be no question and answers, and only 108 souls (kings) will learn RajYoga directly from the mouth of Ramshivbaba. At present Krishna (Brahma) is teaching Bhakti (hatyoga) in the present period of ''Brahma ki raat'' and hence all PBKs are going towards durgati. (It has been said in Murlis: "Bhakti-marg is durgati marg").

shivsena.
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andrey

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Post01 May 2007

Dear Brother,

In the beginning the soul of Krishna used to have visions that he would become Vishnu, is not it? He did not used to have visons that he will become Krishna.

When he received the visions, he did not understand and only after he used to receive the clarifications he understood that he will become Krishna too. The way as he became child Krishna through knowledge in the beginning, the sameway he will become in the Golden Age, through the same Father practically. There is no misleading.

The difference is that in the Q&A in the Murlis, some Brother invents them and puts in the VCD* it is ShivBaba. It is said that personal advices, ordinary speaking is also called Murli. We just now have it recorded and it is good. It is for our benefit. This must have happened at the time of Brahma Baba too, in a non-recorded way.

You say all PBKs are heading towards durgati but we know our sadgati starts as long as the Confluence Age starts and continues till the Golden Age starts when downfall starts.

shivsena

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Post03 May 2007

arjun wrote:If I seek answers from Baba and communicate to you, then you say that you don't have power to think on your own. And when I write on my own as an individual you say that how can you write like this or that why did not you seek answers from Baba. When I am unable to read your mind how can I read the mind of Father Shiv?

Many a times I decided that I would not reply to your queries/views, but did not do so due to reasons I cannot reveal here. But you are forcing me to think of that option repeatedly by passing personal comments. I don't mind becoming silent towards your posts if my silence would bring joy to you. My silence to your posts would give me more time for Godly service behind the curtains while you fight the royal war with fellow kings.

Dear arjun Bhai.

That was a good outburst of emotions. It is good to vent your pent up feelings once in a while (i could feel they were accumulating inside you for a long time). It just shows that we all are human and we still have a long way to go before we become soul-conscious (inspite of the fact that ShivBaba has been with the Advance Party for last few decades and we all are still the same).

For all simple queries which have been not clarified in cds through Advanced Knowledge, you do not hesitate to ask Baba about the clarification. But when i asked you a very vital logical query, then you give your bhakti-marg explanation and try to justify the happenings. This is what surprised me and so i wrote my thoughts. But it seems that i touched your wrong nerve (dukti rag par hath rakh diya).

i have not passed any judgemental comments on you. On the contrary, many other members have been giving me many titles but i have not asked the administration to take any action because i know myself very well and i do not care about what others call me. Baba says, ''ninda aur stuthi mein ek samaan raho'' (Be calm when someone insults you or praises you), so i have learnt to become an observer (sakshi) but you take things to heart. (I can see that nothing is ever meant personally by anybody on this forum).

As you have time and again said that you do not wish to answer my queries, then i have nothing to say for that. If you deem it fit then it is your choice but just as you keep on hammering the BKs with Murli points and your explanations to prove that Father ShivBaba is not with them; in the same way i will keep on posting proofs from Murlis which show the ambiguity of Advanced Knowledge and will prove that the role of ShivBaba (as Bap-teacher-satguru), has still not started and it is Krishna who is doing the shooting of bhakti-marg by giving his own explanations which go against the Murlis of Shivbap.

shivsena.

shivsena

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Post03 May 2007

arjun wrote: Yes, that is correct. But you say that it would become somewhere in the future, but ShivBaba says that already some souls are experiencing heaven within the hell numberwise on the basis of their efforts.

Dear arjun Bhai.

There is a difference between ''experiencing heaven'' and "being in heaven". 'Experiencing' is a subjective term and it is used in bhakti-marg. There are several souls in BKs and in the outside world in other satsangs, who are also using the term ''experiencing heaven or bliss" in their own way but we all know that no one is in heaven. Only when heaven is established by Ramshivbaba in the near future, then only one can be actually be in heaven and then even others who are not in heaven will acknowledge that fact.

What has been said in cassettes is not ShivBaba speaking, but the soul of Krishna who is teaching Bhakti and so he is talking of experience. When Ramshivbaba establishes heaven, then there will be no need to utter the words ''experiencing heaven". Also it has been said in Murlis that once you go to heaven (amarlok) then you do not return back to mortal world(mrityulok). So ''being in heaven'' is an objective thing and ''experiencing bliss'' is a subjective phenomenon.

shivsena.
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andrey

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Post04 May 2007

In the beginning the soul of Krishna used to have visions that he would become Vishnu, is not it? He did not used to have visons that he will become Krishna.

"He had visions of Shri Krishna and the four-armed image of Vishnu and understood that he would become the Emperor of Dwarika." (Revised Sakar Murli dated 12.01.04, published by BKs)
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ex-l

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Post04 May 2007

In the beginning the soul of Krishna used to have visions that he would become Vishnu, is not it? He did not used to have visons that he will become Krishna.

In the historical documents I am looking at, it does mention that Prajapati God Brahma (Lekhraj Kirpalani) would become Krishna.

Of course, you could argue for the next 29 years "who Brahma is", "when the beginning was" and what "Krishna" means and "which Krishna is meant" ... me, I will just lay back on my bed of snakes on top of an ocean of poison and wait to se what happens.

Any BK or PBK willing to accept a $100 bet at 10,000:1 odds that it does not happen?
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