Food for thought for all PBKs

for Prajapita Brahma Kumaris (Advance Party), or those interested in becoming PBKs, to discuss AIVV matters in an open, non-judgemental manner.
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shivsena

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Post31 Dec 2007

Shivsena wrote:... at the right time in 1937 he then gives visions to Krishna (Lekhraj Kirpalani), to start the Sangamyug; and then enters Lekhraj Kirpalani in 1947 again to narrate the Murlis which give the whole knowledge in code form; this Murlis when read by Ram's soul (NO 1 SOUL) give him a clue to his own part and he starts on his effort to achieve the complete 100% nirakari stage to become like Shiv ...
arjun wrote:How can the above be true if all the words spoken through the personality of Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit from 1976 are false according to you???

Dear arjun Bhai.

As far as the introduction of Krishna's soul by basic knowledge and Ram's soul by Advanced Knowledge, both these are 100% correct; but the interpretation of Murlis of Shiva by Dadis and Didis are just their own manmat, just as the whole interpretation of Murlis through Advanced Knowledge is krishma's manmat (manushya mat se durgati ); as per drama both BKs and PBKs are destined to do the subtle shooting of bhakti-marg; if there was Shrimat in BKs or PBKs, then even the most hardened criminal would have experienced chadti-kala by hearing the Vani of most powerful almighty ShivBaba(because ShivBaba is karan-karavanhar); but since this has not happened in practical, then it means that the part of omnipotent ShivBaba will start only when both bhakti-marg ends.

shivsena.
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shivsena

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gau-mukh.

Post06 Jan 2008

Dear arjun Bhai,

Who is Gau-mukh through whom the real Gita knowledge is/will be spoken by ShivBaba???

Is true Gita Gyan being spoken now through gau-mukh or will it be spoken through gau-mukh sometime in near future??

Please give your views.
shivsena.
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shivachild

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Re:

Post06 Mar 2008

Om Shanti shivsena Bhai, you have written

"He stays in Paramdham for more than 4900 years." ... as per my understanding of all your posts, Paramdham is not a red coloured place as all BKs and PBKs believe. This means Supreme Soul Shiva stays with us for full 5000 years. Supreme Soul Shiva does not take birth and rebirth like all other souls (janam maran main nahin ate ). Then how does he stay in Paramdham for more than 4900 years.
it means that the part of omnipotent ShivBaba will start only when both Bhakti-marg ends.

As per basic and advanced knoweledge Supreme Soul Shiv is the resident of Paramdham. He is not omnipresent (ghat ghat vyapi nahi hai). Then what do you mean by omnipotent ShivBaba?

with best wishes of shivaratri, shivachild

Om Shanti
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shivsena

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Re: Food for thought for all PBKs.

Post11 Mar 2008

Dear arjun Bhai and PBK Brothers,

In audio cassete no. 393-A, it has been clearly said that "Advanced Knowledge is also a manthan" ; now who is saying these words???; is it Krishna or is it Shiva???; Whatever Shiva says cannot be manthan, as Shiva should only speak the truth and nothing else as He does not require to do manthan at all. So it is very obvious that the whole Advanced Knowledge is the manthan(invention) of Krishna, who has been given the role of Maya as per this behad ka drama, to test the PBKs and to seperate out the BK praja(900000) the pbkpraja(16000) and king souls(108); (there is a saying in bhakti-marg, ''killing two birds with one stone''; ''ek teer se do shikaar'')

Your views please.
shivsena.
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andrey

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Re: Food for thought for all PBKs.

Post11 Mar 2008

I have heard in one VCD* that this manthan has happened or has been enabled because of the entering of Shiv, that means that it is not just an ordinary manthan anyone can do and we can all see this through The Knowledge that is coming.

If Krishna would speak as Maya he would mislead us in this even. We would not be able to guess. Otherwise it is very easy a recognition. Where is the matter of test.

But you have started to reveal the roles of others (Krishna plays the role of Maya) which means you should have revealed your own role before this. Then when you reveal the roles of others means you are a director. Then if you ask Krishna to stop going to Mt. Abu he may obey. Then if we still would have to reveal to the world that "God has come" the BKs will wonder what to reveal. Now still they think that the role through Dadi Gulzar is no less. If you are a director you can say aslo other roles. Yes, we know of RamShivbaba. Some more?
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arjun

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Re: Food for thought for all PBKs.

Post11 Mar 2008

Shivsena wrote:In audio cassete no. 393-A, it has been clearly said that "Advanced Knowledge is also a manthan" ; now who is saying these words???; is it Krishna or is it Shiva???; Whatever Shiva says cannot be manthan, as Shiva should only speak the truth and nothing else as He does not require to do manthan at all. So it is very obvious that the whole Advanced Knowledge is the manthan(invention) of Krishna, who has been given the role of Maya as per this behad ka drama, to test the PBKs and to seperate out the BK praja(900000) the pbkpraja(16000) and king souls(108); (there is a saying in Bhakti-marg, ''killing two birds with one stone''; ''ek teer se do shikaar'')

Dear Brother,
Omshanti and welcome back to the forum. Although it is true that the 'Advanced knowledge' is a churning (by the soul of Ram aided by the Supreme Soul Shiv) to a certain extent, but it cannot be said that the whole of advanced knowledge is a churning. By the same analogy the basic knowledge was not completely a churning by Brahma Baba. Had the souls of Krishna and Ram been capable of narrating the complete basic and advanced knowledge on the basis of their churnings, then where is the necessity for Father Shiv to come?
A relevant Murli point is reproduced below from the BK section:
102.

"शिवबाबा तो विचार सागर मंथन नहीं करते। यह ब्रह्मा विचार सागर मंथन कर समझाते हैं कि यह जो जैनी लोग हैं उनका यह देलवाड़ा मंदिर है। यह जो चैतन्य होकर गये हैं उनका ही जड़ यादगार है। आदि देव आदि देवी भी बैठे हैं। ऊपर में स्वर्ग है। अब अगर जो उन्हों के भगत हैं उन्हों को ग्यान मिले तो अच्छी तरह समझ सकते हैं कि बरोबर नीचे राजयोग की शिक्षा ले रहे हैं।" (ब्रह्माकुमारियों द्वारा प्रकाशित रिवाइज़्ड साकार मुरली दिनांक २१.११.०७, पृ.१)

"ShivBaba toh vichaar saagar manthan nahee kartey. Yah Brahma vichaar saagar manthan kar samjhaatey hain ki yah jo Jaini log hain unka yah Delwara mandir hai. Yah jo chaitanya hokar gaye hain unka hee jad yaadgaar hai. Aadi Dev Aadi Devi bhi baithey hain. Oopar may swarg hai. Ab agar jo unho ke Bhagat hain unho ko gyaan miley toh achchi tarah samajh saktey hain ki barobar neechey rajyog kee shiksha ley rahey hain." (Brahmakumariyon dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli, dinaank 21.11.07, pg 1)

“ShivBaba will not churn the ocean of thoughts. This Brahma churns the ocean of thoughts and explains that this Dilwara Temple is related to these Jains (followers of Jainism) It is a memorial of those who had existed in the past in living form. Aadi Dev and Aadi Devi are also sitting. There is heaven above. Well, if their devotees get The Knowledge then they can understand properly that definitely teachings of Rajyog is being obtained below." (Revised Sakar Murli dated 21.11.07, pg 1 published by BKs in Hindi, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba; translated by a PBK; the words within brackets in the English version have been added by the translator to clarify the meaning)

With regards,
OGS,
Arjun
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shivsena

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Re: Food for thought for all PBKs.

Post22 Mar 2008

arjun wrote:Omshanti and welcome back to the forum. Although it is true that the 'Advanced knowledge' is a churning (by the soul of Ram aided by the Supreme Soul Shiv) to a certain extent, but it cannot be said that the whole of advanced knowledge is a churning. By the same analogy the basic knowledge was not completely a churning by Brahma Baba. Had the souls of Krishna and Ram been capable of narrating the complete basic and advanced knowledge on the basis of their churnings, then where is the necessity for Father Shiv to come? A relevant Murli point is reproduced below from the BK section: 102.

Dear arjun Bhai.

Again there is ambiguity between what is taught in Advanced Knowledge and what you have written, that the Advanced Knowledge is churning of Ram aided by Shiva. We were taught in Advance Course that Ram is in continous Yoga with Shiva to burn his sins of 63 births and that Ram has surrendered his body to Krishna and Shiva; now since Shiva does not need any body, then automatically this body belongs to Krishna who is completing his 84th birth through the body of Ram, and as per drama Krishna has been given the part to seperate out the 9 lac, 16000, and 108 souls and so only he has been instrumental in inventing this Advanced Knowledge and there is no interference of any other soul whatsoever.

Who ever does not realise this fact will realise this in the end when the present face of Virendra Dev Dixit will completely resemble Lekhraj Kirpalani in the near future (face is the index of mind) and that is why it has been said in Murlis that "manushya Brahma ko dekh munj jaate hain" (meaning manushya ie BKs and PBKs will become confused and depressed when they see Brahma in the end). This is what i have derived after churning the Murlis and Vanis.

shivsena.
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shivsena

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Re: Food for thought for all PBKs.

Post27 Aug 2008

Dear indiana, arjunbhai, and PBK Brothers.

It is often said in Murlis that "Gita hai family planning ka shastra" ('Gita is scripture of family planning'), but this very important gem of knowledge has never been explained fully by Advanced Knowledge in last 20 years, as to how and when Gita does family planning.

If PBKs feel that Advanced Knowledge is Gita narrated by ShivBaba, then how it can be labelled as ''family planning scripture'', when PBKs are still being born for last 20 years and old PBKs are dying from knowledge.

Can any PBK please throw some light on the above?
shivsena.
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pbkindiana

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Re: Food for thought for all PBKs.

Post28 Aug 2008

shivsena wrote:It is often said in Murlis that "Gita hai family planning ka shastra" ('Gita is scripture of family planning'), but this very important gem of knowledge has never been explained fully by Advanced Knowledge in last 20 years, as to how and when Gita does family planning. If PBKs feel that Advanced Knowledge is Gita narrated by ShivBaba, then how it can be labelled as ''family planning scripture'', when PBKs are still being born for last 20 years and old PBKs are dying from knowledge.

Dear shivsena Bhai,

Has the true Gita been spoken yet for family planning to be commenced as mentioned?

Om Shanti -- indie.
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shivsena

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Re: Food for thought for all PBKs.

Post28 Aug 2008

Dear indiana.

That is exactly what I wish to know. If Advanced Knowledge is not true Gita, then when is true Gita going to be spoken and what do we call 'Advanced Knowledge' now?

shivsena.
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pbkindiana

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Re: Food for thought for all PBKs.

Post30 Aug 2008

shivsena wrote:That is exactly what I wish to know. If Advanced Knowledge is not true Gita, then when is true Gita going to be spoken

Dear shivsena Bhai,

True Gita will be spoken when Rambap attains the 100% nirakari stage and merging of both nirakari stages will be coined as Shiv-shankar.
and what do we call 'Advanced Knowledge' now?

Call it as 'advanced knowledge' as i have never come across in any advanced knowledge reading materials that say "advanced knowledge is the true Gita." As long as Krishna's soul is taking shelter in the body of Baba Virendra Dev Dixit, no knowledge can be said as the true Gita. Moreover Krishna's soul never attain the 100% nirakari stage for him to be part of the true Gita.

Om Shanti -- indie.
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bansy

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Re: Food for thought for all PBKs.

Post30 Aug 2008

pbkindiana wrote:i have never come across in any advanced knowledge reading materials that say "advanced knowledge is the true Gita."

Can any other PBK vouch for this that no documents from AIVV have not or have never used the words "True Gita" in their documents ? My understanding from many of shivsena's posts is that he often does a lot of research before raising issues, and this seems to be one of them (does not mean I agree with the churnings on "ramshivbap", as that is as per inidvidual churning).

The BKs have used the term "True Gita" (there is one document named as such in the library section).
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shivsena

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Re: Food for thought for all PBKs.

Post30 Aug 2008

pbkindiana wrote:Call it as 'advanced knowledge' as i have never come across in any advanced knowledge reading materials that say "advanced knowledge is the true Gita."

Dear indiana.

You should have done a bit of homework, before making the above statement.

Since you are staying abroad and you seemingly read only advance English literature, then you are not aware that there are 3 main books of advance collections of Murli points in Hindi (under various headings) which are termed as sacchi Gita khand 1-2-3 (true Gita part 1-2-3) right on the front page.

If you cannot access these and confirm, then arjun Bhai should give us the confirmation whether I am right or wrong.

shivsena.
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arjun

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Re: Food for thought for all PBKs.

Post31 Aug 2008

shivsena wrote:there are main 3 books of advance collections of Murli points in Hindi (under various headings) which are termed as sacchi Gita khand 1-2-3 (true Gita part 1-2-3) right on the front page.

This is true.
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pbkindiana

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Re: Food for thought for all PBKs.

Post01 Sep 2008

shivsena wrote:You should have done a bit of homework, before making the above statement. Since you are staying abroad and you seemingly read only advance English literature, then you are not aware that there are 3 main books of advance collections of Murli points in Hindi (under various headings) which are termed as sacchi Gita khand 1-2-3 (true Gita part 1-2-3) right on the front page. If you cannot access these and confirm, then arjun Bhai should give us the confirmation whether I am right or wrong.

Dear shivsena Bhai,

I did not say that Murli points are not the true Gita. I am talking about advanced knowledge devoid of the Murlis quotes, that is the churning of Rambap and the interference of Krishna's soul (as per my views), has not being stated as the true Gita. So before you presumed that I am not doing my homework, please try to understand what I am trying to point out.

I agree I read only English advanced knowledge literature but arjun Bhai and you read in Hindi, so have you come across any statement in advanced knowledge materials (devoid of the Murlis quotes) that advanced knowledge is the 'true Gita".

If you have come across, then I am sorry and i will take back my words.

Om Shanti -- indie.
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