Food for thought for all PBKs

for Prajapita Brahma Kumaris (Advance Party), or those interested in becoming PBKs, to discuss AIVV matters in an open, non-judgemental manner.
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shivsena

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Re: Food for thought for all PBKs.

Post01 Sep 2008

pbkindiana wrote:If you have come across, then I am sorry and i will take back my words.

Dear indiana,

You reasoning reminds me of a very popular Hindi saying "rassi jal gayi magar uski aitan nahin gayi" (meaning that ''the rope has been burnt but the twists still remain").

I appreciate your reasoning to fool everybody on this forum but can you fool yourself?

shivsena.
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pbkindiana

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Re: Food for thought for all PBKs.

Post03 Sep 2008

shivsena wrote:You reasoning reminds me of a very popular Hindi saying "rassi jal gayi magar uski aitan nahin gayi" (meaning that ''the rope has been burnt but the twists still remain".) I appreciate your reasoning to fool everybody on this forum but can you fool yourself?

Dear Brother,

I don't get you. I am asking you something honestly whether have you come across any statements in advanced knowledge (the Hindi version) that says advanced knowledge is the true Gita but you are making wild accusations. It is just a simple query but you are 'making a mountain out of a molehill.'

Also it is not necessary for me to fool others and also the members of this forum are 'nobody's fool' to accept blindly the others' perspectives.

Om Shanti -- indie.
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shivsena

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Re: Food for thought for all PBKs.

Post07 Sep 2008

pbkindiana wrote:I don't get you. I am asking you something honestly whether have you come across any statements in advanced knowledge (the Hindi version) that says advanced knowledge is the true Gita but you are making wild accusations. It is just a simple query but you are 'making a mountain out of a molehill.'

Dear indiana.

It is amazing to note that you cannot see the mountain of lies which the Advanced Knowledge is made of, but you can see the mountain of the single point which I write.

In the BK world at mount Abu, the mountain of lies made by Dadis and Didis cannot be seen by BKs (and PBKs are trying to wake them) and in the PBK world, the behad ka Mt. Abu (alias Brahma) has been churning mountain of lies which cannot be seen by PBKs, and those who try to awake the PBKs are accused of making "mountain out of a molehill". This is really amazing.

shivsena.
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pbkindiana

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Re: Food for thought for all PBKs.

Post10 Sep 2008

shivsena wrote:It is amazing to note that you cannot see the mountain of lies which the Advanced Knowledge is made of, but you can see the mountain of the single point which I write.

Dear Brother,

Is these mountain of lies that made you running to the PBK community and also you profess to be a PBK on paper only, based on what? Either you be a PBK or don't become one. There is no such concept to be someone on paper only. If advanced knowledge consists of lies only, then why have faith on the founder also? Most probably you may claim that in the beginning you were not aware that advanced knowledge is a mountian of lies, but currently you are insisting it is a mountain of lies, then why be a PBK on paper only?

AS you have mentioned that Shiv and sadgati goes hand in hand, Ravan and durgati goes hand in hand, so Baba Virendra Dev Dixit and advanced knowledge also goes hand in hand, so don't prefix PBK to your name. Do not have any connections with Baba Virendra Dev Dixit as to condemn advanced knowledge is to condemn him. You are condemning Krishna's soul who is speaking advanced knowledge but what sort of a mentality do you have for condemning an elevated soul as Brahma Baba.

You, who have taken susteneance from his Yagya when you were a BK and now you are pointing a finger at that elevated soul. There is an Indian saying, "if a dog is loyal to its master, then give him everything, but when the dog bites its master's hand, then shoot the dog on the spot."
In the BK world at mount Abu, the mountain of lies made by Dadis and Didis cannot be seen by BKs (and PBKs are trying to wake them) and in the PBK world, the behad ka Mt. Abu (alias Brahma) has been churning mountain of lies which cannot be seen by PBKs, and those who try to awake the PBKs are accused of making "mountain out of a molehill". This is really amazing.

What do you want the PBKs to do? You want the Sisters to leave the Yagya and stay at your residence and join you to condemn advanced knowledge. Or do you want the PBKs to revert to the BK community? As far as i know, PBKs are aware that Krishna's soul is interferring in advanced knowledge as he has interferred in Sakar Murlis too. They are also aware that the ambiguities in advanced knowledge are caused by Krishna's soul. So what do you want the PBKs to do? Can you say it loud and clear so that they can mull about your proposal and come to a decision.

Om Shanti -- indie.
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shivsena

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Re: Food for thought for all PBKs.

Post12 Sep 2008

Dear indiana.

I am just wondering about the basis of why PBKs call themselves PBKs, when Ram's soul (who is supposed to be prajapita by PBKs) does not call himself prajapita (Father of humanity) openly. There are 3 souls in the body of Virendra Dev Dixit : Shiva does not say directly that HE is Father-teacher-satguru; Ram does not acknowledge that HE is prajapita and Krishna does not say that he is Brahma. So no one knows 'who is who' in the body of Virendra Dev Dixit and there is just confusion and no one has the courage to ask how long this game of confusion will go on and when are we going to hear the absolute truth from the Chariot.

For anyone to be called a true PBK, the following criteria needs to be fulfilled.

First, anyone who calls himself a PBK in real life, then he should see every soul(in male body) as Brother(with no hostility whatsoever) and every soul (in female body) as Sister(with no lust whatsoever). Has anyone achieved this stage so far ????

Secondly, prajapita (Father of Humanity) has to be acknowledged by 108 souls and all those 108 souls should be united in one brotherhood under one Father, but we see no such thing in PBK family.

Finally, When Father of Humanity is immortal, then he should be giving the boon of immortality to all his children who give in writing and accept him as Father. But we see that many PBKs (young or old) are leaving their bodies and dying an untimely death, indicating that we all are mortals and not the children of immortal Father.

Unless all the above three criteria are fulfilled, no soul can be called a true PBK but only on paper.
So let each PBK decide whether he is a PBK in real life at present or only on paper.
I also know that only when Ramshivbaba takes complete control of this body then PBKs will be born numberwise, so if i call myself and all PBKs, as PBKs on paper, then what is wrong with that.

Also i would like to know who is the soul who takes nischay patra from PBKs???? Is it the soul of Ram or is it the soul of Krishna!! (since God bindi ShivBaba does not need to take any letter of faith from his soul conscious children).

shivsena.
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cal

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Re: Food for thought for all PBKs.

Post14 Sep 2008

shivsena wrote:There are 3 souls in the body of Veerendra Dev Dixit. ... So no one knows 'who is who' in the body of Veerendra Dev Dixit and there is just confusion

Dear Brother Shivsena:

I am glad that we are questioning everything. But then the question is: What practical proof do you have that there are

    a. Three souls acting through Virendra Dev Dixit's body?
    b. Virendra Dev Dixit is Ram's soul
    c. Lekhraj Kirpalani is speaking through Virendra Dev Dixit.
    d. Shiv is present in Virendra Dev Dixit?
Om Shanti - Cal
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shivsena

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Re: Food for thought for all PBKs.

Post14 Sep 2008

Dear cal Bhai.

Very, very valid queries I must say.

You just won't believe it but these are the very questions which we PBKs were discussing in our research workshop for last one week and we have yet no practical proof of the same. As soon as we come to some conclusion then I will put them on the forum.

But one thing is sure that the whole Advanced Knowledge is definitely the Krishna ki jhooti Gita which is causing the downfall of PBKs (behad ka bharatwasis), just as the broad drama Krishna ki Gita causes downfall of hadh ka bharatwasis from Copper Age for 2500 years (shooting of 2500 years has to take place in the seed world).

shivsena.
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new knowledge

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Re: Food for thought for all PBKs.

Post14 Sep 2008

I am in search of 4 personalities;

    1) God (Shiv or by whatever name He may be called),
    2) number 1 Rudra soul (combined with God in the form of ShivShakti???),
    3) Chariot of God (combined with # 1 Rudra soul?) &
    4) that personality playing the role of Maya (Ravan); but I am not sure whether he is the Chariot of God (combined with # 1 Rudra soul?) or not.
I also think that;

    1) God is beyond The Cycle of bodily birth & death & also beyond 'nishchayrupi janam-maran ka chakra', i.e, the symbolic cycle of birth & death representing faith & doubt,
    2) all Rudra souls are beyond The Cycle of bodily birth & death, but they are subject to 'nishchayrupi janam-maran ka chakra' &
    3) non-Rudra souls are subject to The Cycle of bodily birth & death as well as 'nishchayrupi janam-maran ka chakra'.
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pbkindiana

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Re: Food for thought for all PBKs.

Post15 Sep 2008

shivsena wrote:I am just wondering about the basis of why PBKs call themselves PBKs, when Ram's soul (who is supposed to be Prajapita by PBKs) does not call himself Prajapita (Father of humanity) openly. There are 3 souls in the body of Veerendra Dev Dixit : Shiva does not say directly that HE is Father-teacher-Satguru; Ram does not acknowledge that HE is Prajapita and Krishna does not say that he is Brahma. So no one knows 'who is who' in the body of Veerendra Dev Dixit and there is just confusion and no one has the courage to ask how long this game of confusion will go on and when are we going to hear the absolute truth from the Chariot.

Dear shivsena Bhai,

The PBKs have recognized the founder of advanced knowledge as Prajapita so they regard themselves as PBKs. Does the soul of Ram need to hammer the PBKs that He is Prajapita. I came to advanced knowledge based on The Knowledge itself and realized that Father Shiva is residing in Baba Virendra Dev Dixit. Did you come to advanced knowledge after being told by Baba Virendra Dev Dixit that he is prajapita? What sort of children are we if we become PBKs based on someone telling that he is prajapita and not to become PBKs based on knowledge.
and no one has the courage to ask how long this game of confusion will go on and when are we going to hear the absolute truth from the Chariot.

I have heard few PBKs asking Baba when this game will be over. Even there is a Murli point that says "if you ask when destruction is going take place, it means that you want ShivBaba to leave."
For anyone to be called a true PBK, the following criteria needs to be fulfilled. First, anyone who calls himself a PBK in real life, then he should see every soul (in male body) as Brother (with no hostility whatsoever) and every soul (in female body) as Sister (with no lust whatsoever). Has anyone achieved this stage so far ????

Can you produce a Murli quote to corroborate your perspectives? As far as i know, it is always sung in the Sakar Murlis, "have a vision of brotherhood."
Secondly, Prajapita (Father of Humanity) has to be acknowledged by 108 souls and all those 108 souls should be united in one brotherhood under one Father, but we see no such thing in PBK family.

First the 8 souls will acknowledge Prajapita and not the 108. Also when the soul of Ram has attained his 100% nirakari stage, then the PBKs will be united as one family.
Finally, When Father of Humanity is immortal, then he should be giving the boon of immortality to all his children who give in writing and accept him as Father. But we see that many PBKs (young or old) are leaving their bodies and dying an untimely death, indicating that we all are mortals and not the children of immortal Father.

They gave in writing and has accepted him to be Prajapita, but just a small doubt, they leave His hand. So whose fault if they perish? Also i have heard few PBKs saying that "people are saying that He is not the appointed Chariot of Father Shiva" but still claim themselves as PBKs. I believe if one has complete faith in ShivBaba, then one will never perish. Also posting a Murli quote, MU 28/12/07 -- "Baba is sitting here. If you become displeased with ShivBaba, then you will perish."
Unless all the above three criteria are fulfilled, no soul can be called a true PBK but only on paper.So let each PBK decide whether he is a PBK in real life at present or only on paper.I also know that only when Ramshivbaba takes complete control of this body then PBKs will be born numberwise, so if i call myself and all PBKs, as PBKs on paper, then what is wrong with that.

There is no question of being a PBK on paper only. It is to be or don't be. there is no 50/50.To become a PBK only on paper, it denotes that one doesn't have complete faith in that personality who will become Prajapita. To become a PBK after the soul fo Ram becomes practically Prajapita, then there is no difference between you and the others who are waiting for events to emerge practically so that they become His followers. A real PBK acknowledges himself as PBK based on knowledge and not for practical events to surface.
Also i would like to know who is the soul who takes nischay patra from PBKs???? Is it the soul of Ram or is it the soul of Krishna!! (since God bindi ShivBaba does not need to take any letter of faith from his soul conscious children).

I believe it is the soul of Ram who takes nischay patra since the soul of Krishna doesn't have the thought of doing so during his era. Only an intelligent soul knows how to take precaution.

Om Shanti -- indie.
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arjun

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Re: Food for thought for all PBKs.

Post15 Sep 2008

pbkindiana wrote:I believe it is the soul of Ram who takes nischay patra

I agree with the above, but most PBKs give the nishchay patra (letter of faith) not to the soul of Ram but to the Supreme Father Shiv through His corporeal Chariot. So, they express their faith not just on the incorporeal Father but also on the corporeal Father. And this is what differentiates their faith on ShivBaba from the faith of BKs on ShivBaba.
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shivsena

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Re: Food for thought for all PBKs.

Post16 Sep 2008

pbkindiana wrote:What do you want the PBKs to do? You want the Sisters to leave the Yagya and stay at your residence and join you to condemn advanced knowledge. Or do you want the PBKs to revert to the BK community? Can you say it loud and clear so that they can mull about your proposal and come to a decision.

Dear indiana.

It is good that you have raised the issue of surrendered Sisters in the Yagya. I would first like to know why the Sisters are being bodily surrendered in the first place!!! Does it say in any Murlis that God Shiva comes and wants souls to surrender their bodies to HIM. It is always said in Murlis that forget your body and bodily relations and surrender your minds to me (man-mana-bhav) ; it has never been said in any Murli that you have to surrender your body physically to God ShivBaba. So why are Sisters surrendering and being accepted in the PBK world against Shrimat of Murlis. Those Sisters who felt that Advanced Knowledge is Bhakti have already left the Yagya and returned to their homes and are condemning it in their own way and those who have not yet left, will realise it soon and will take their own decisions.

The same ritual of surrendering bodily to so called Godly ashrams by Dharm-gurus has been taking place in the outside world, the BK world and the PBK world, which proves that all the Three Worlds are nothing but bhakti-marg and whatever happens in the PBK seed world is reflected in the outside world and the BK world. When the true gyan-marg is started by Ramshivbaba there will be no surrendering of bodies and the 108 souls will by intellectually connected to Father Ram by thought (man-mana-bhav) from their own homes (Murli point: Ghar baite bhagwan mila).

shivsena.
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arjun

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Re: Food for thought for all PBKs.

Post17 Sep 2008

shivsena wrote:I would first like to know why the Sisters are being bodily surrendered in the first place!!! Does it say in any Murlis that God Shiva comes and wants souls to surrender their bodies to HIM. It is always said in Murlis that forget your body and bodily relations and surrender your minds to me (man-mana-bhav) ; it has never been said in any Murli that you have to surrender your body physically to God ShivBaba. So why are Sisters surrendering and being accepted in the PBK world against Shrimat of Murlis.

Virgins surrendering/dedicating their life to Godly service has been going on in the Yagya since the beginning and it is very much as per the Murlis. Nobody is forcing the virgins to surrender their bodies to the Yagya. They come on their own. It has been written in the Murlis that virgins are given asylum to enable them to lead a pure life. Will you take care of the thousands of BK Sisters and more than 400 PBK Sisters if they believe you that entire BK/PBK knowledge is false and come to you? And if you cannot take care and still say that they should leave the Yagya and if they do so and if their lokik family forces them to get married to a non-BK/PBK and if they are forced to indulge in sex by their husbands against their wishes, will you go to their rescue?
“Young spinsters who are minor cannot be taken by us. They can live at their homes and study. If their mother and Father accept this knowledge then the minor girls can also be taught (spiritual knowledge).”
• “BapDada feels pleased to see the Kumaris (spinsters), because each Kumari is going to become instrumental in awakening many. ... The more you become busy in Godly service, that (job) will automatically leave you.”
– Avyakt Vani dated 29.10.81, pg 96
“Kumaris are free. What are they free for? They are free for service.”- Avyakt Vani dated 3.2.78, page 42
“Kumaris have a very big responsibility. One can become instrumental in causing the benefit of many others.” – Avyakt Vani dated 29.11.76, page 88
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shivsena

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Re: Food for thought for all PBKs.

Post17 Sep 2008

Dear arjun Bhai.

None of the Vanis or Murlis you have quoted mention that you have to surrender to God Shiva bodily to do Godly service. God Shiva comes to deliver house-holders who stay in grahasta ashram and do Godly service, and not sanyasis(BKs or PBKs) who surrender bodily to deh-dhari dharm gurus.

I am not responsible for what the Sisters are supposed to do if they are not surrendered or want to go back to lolik. My duty is to wake up the surrendered PBKs by making them aware that they are in Ravan ki jail during Brahma ki raat and sooner they realise this fact, it will better for them.

shivsena.
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arjun

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Re: Food for thought for all PBKs.

Post18 Sep 2008

shivsena wrote:None of the Vanis or Murlis you have quoted mention that you have to surrender to God Shiva bodily to do Godly service. God Shiva comes to deliver house-holders who stay in grahasta ashram and do Godly service, and not sanyasis(BKs or PBKs) who surrender bodily to deh-dhari dharm gurus.

I have produced the Murli points that were available in my email folders. Since I am out of station, I will be able to produce relevant Murli points when I have access to my computer.
shivsena wrote:I am not responsible for what the Sisters are supposed to do if they are not surrendered or want to go back to lolik. My duty is to wake up the surrendered PBKs by making them aware that they are in Ravan ki jail during Brahma ki raat and sooner they realise this fact, it will better for them.

What else can we expect from you? You just want every PBK to leave ShivBaba (through Veerendra Dev Dixit) now and return to Him when you give them the green signal (any time after January, 2010), is not it? You are not responsible if they undergo downfall in between. So kind of you.
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shivsena

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Re: Food for thought for all PBKs.

Post18 Sep 2008

Dear arjun Bhai.

Nobody falls or rises because of some other soul, but it is his own karma which decides the fate of things. If you have not understood this basic principle of karma theory, then you have completely wasted your life in this Godly knowledge. Before you blame anybody, just turn inwards and see yourself; the same thing can be said about you by BKs whom you are trying to convert to PBKs.

shivsena.
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