Romantic love within the BKWSU

for measuring opinion on matters relating to their BKWSU experiences
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Who has been in love with a BK?

Once
5
14%
More than once
8
22%
Been in love with a senior or teacher
6
16%
Never
13
35%
Left Gyan with BK lover
2
5%
Been in love with a student
3
8%
 
Total votes : 37

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ex-l

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Romantic love within the BKWSU

Post20 Sep 2007

Although I do not wish to distract from other more important discussion, I always wonder at the nature and attitudes regards romantic love within the BKWSU. Firstly, what this forum has taught me is that there is a whole lot more of it going on than I released!!! How many members have been in love with another BK and how many have been in love with a senior or teacher?

It is my current opinion that the Bhakti or devotion that primarily Sisters feel for other Sisters, and especially dominant Senior Sister, is a kind of suppressed or sublimated romantic love. And this is used to bind individuals.

Ditto the Seniors for Lekhraj Kirpalani. There is no way on earth that you cannot tell me that many to most of them were not in love with him, in one way or another, and that it was probably that love that blinded them to the Shiva soul within (allegedly). Within the "Yoga" practise, is an effect caused by the suppression of the love/lust element, does this equates to the lack of rationality at times and the "sanctified attachments" that is rife through out the Yagya.

On one hand, I have also raised to pretty much silence the context for this question, the experience within traditional Indian society where arranged marriages are commonplace, even very mismatched arranged marriages like a 15 year daughter to a 50 year old. On the other, I have felt uncomfortable at the same sex handholding, dancing and touching that is quite acceptable in India.

They say, "love grows" but does it ever? Anyone that has also tasted loveless sex knows fine that it cannot compare to loveful sex ... (but is that loveful or something else?). I can see touching across the sexes would be too much temptation where the body is starved of comfort, affection and care.

Attitudes towards the breaking away and the forming of relationships, or even what to do with the young and sex, appear to be softening but I find this impossible to correlate to the Murli which is fixed and absolute on the matter. It this softening evolution or decline ... a compromise to keep the bums on seats?

This topic may best be merged elsewhere ...
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ex-l

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Post21 Sep 2007

If time is short, one best make the best of it.

Additional to the above question, did or does anyone experience sexual arousal whilst either practising or teaching the meditation and engaging in all relationships with Baba?
    This is a serious not prurient question.
I did and I know think student/students of "mine" did. I know of individuals that have been completely blown apart and opened up during the Honeymoon Period and "blown their fortune" due to mismanagement or a lack of instruction and care to disasterous results; such as the breakdown of previously existing maritial relationships. Obviously some BKs, or BKs and contact souls, have hooked and headed for the hills.

To be frank, I would expect it. We are triggering off all sorts of brain chemical and hormones, using romantic triggers and symbolism, one's Kundalini is ultimately being raised/tested/tickled ... and then there is also "Maya" rearing her many heads. Its not that BK Raja Yoga does it but that it could be part of the "purification".

I am asking this from a BK perspective, I am not applying judgements, I am not making improper suggestions or attemping to "defame Baba" ... Does it go on? One is reminded of how erotic a character Krishna is remembered as and his relationship with the gopis.
somewhere else it is wrote:hypnotic triggers that connects us back to the altered state of consciousness that we experienced "in the days of our childhood" or our infatuation with our Beloved. That is why we do it and it is done. I can imagine the Kumaris sighing at the thought of this as we type.
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abrahma kumar

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Are we God Shiva's Spiritually-Romantic love groupies?

Post21 Sep 2007

Neither do i wish to distract from other more important discussions here on the forum but i too wonder, as ex-l does, about the true nature, the real experiences and closeted attitudes regarding romantic love within the BKWSU.

In the past I have even posted a personal opinion that the BKWSU philosophy was never intended to nor does it satisfactorily cater for the "one-on-one" relationship game - except that we are all like a bunch of groupies crazily in love with One God ShivBaba and none other.

(Strange but I never thought of it in those terms till those words came out of my keyboard ... We BK's as the Spiritually-Romantic Love Groupies of God Shiva. No bodies allowed & definitely no sweet nothings whispered into our ears nor the almost imperceptible touch of warm breath feathering gently along the nape of our necks. Nah that's much too much romance.)

Part of my broader exiting concerns are very much based on the impossible task of attempting to correlate real life with a lot of the Murli stricture - especially where very young human beings are concerned.

If there is some softening, evolution or decline ... compromise or whatever, then like most human-aspect things in BKdom, it all goes on without being publicly spoken about. Thanks ex-l for raising this very important topic on the forum. This is the song i have been listening to as i typed this post. No particular human in mind; no recollection of regret; no broken promises remembered. Just a love for harmony and romantic feelings. I hope that this topic does not end up as a fallow place.

As for whether there is any validity in the image of myself as a "Spiritually-Romantic Love Groupy" of God Shiva, who knows and who cares, they are just words. As Shai sang: "The very first time i saw your brown eyes ... if I ever I fall in love again ... I'll be sure that the lady will be just like you". But Shai were not to know that in our BK imagery that lady is a Point of Light. Can there ever be anything more romantic than that?! The Ultimate Bodiless love ... or is it?! I don't think so...
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ex-l

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Re: Are we God Shiva's Spiritually-Romantic love groupies?

Post21 Sep 2007

abrahma Kumar wrote: - except that we are all like a bunch of groupies crazily in love with One God ShivBaba and none other

Bearing in mind that the leadership was not but was a bunch of groupies crazily in love with Prajapati God Brahma and none other.

I do not think nigh 20 years of conditioning and a couple of decade more of association and daily support disappears over night. As Janki feeding Brahma Baba illustrates.

Put into the mix that, probably, none of them nor their ancestors had tasted romatic love or sex within their marriages. I was speaking to Indian friends about relationships and they spoke of husbands never seeing their wife naked and the business being a strictly 30 to 2 m inute roll-on roll-off ferry service to procreation. Sensual or emotional autistics?
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tinydot

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Post21 Sep 2007

I've known a Sister for quite a while, and she revealed to me during her "honeymoon stages", that she was having an orgasm during meditation with ShivaBaba whilst remembering the picture of Brahma. I don't know if she was lying or just trying to kid me.
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ex-l

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Post21 Sep 2007

I appreciate your candidness and take what you say in trust as being accurate. Lucky, if confused, girl.

But it equates to my own findings. Although it is not something I ever experienced myself, nor in any way universal, I would put my hand on the Gita to say a student did and note Brothers popping a woody. I wonder if this is widespread, what is going on and how it is handled.
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abrahma kumar

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Post21 Sep 2007

ex-l wrote:I appreciate your candidness and take what you say in trust as being accurate. Lucky, if confused, girl.

But it equates to my own findings. Although it is not something I ever experienced myself, nor in any way universal, I would put my hand on the Gita to say a student did and note Brothers popping a woody. I wonder if this is widespread, what is going on and how it is handled.

Can i ask an honest, if innocent, question of the ladies? It is the second time i have come across this 'popping a woddy' term on this forum. I am a little unsure whether the term really refers to what happens when "the two tubular structures that run the length of the male 'wood', the corpora cavernosa, become engorged with venous blood". If it does - 'yes' or 'no' answer will do. Thanks.

If the answer is yes may i also ask whether this normal ocurrence in a healthy human male is deemed, by Sisters, as 'grossly non-spiritual'?

regards
abek
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ex-l

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Post21 Sep 2007

Blushes :oops: ... are early morning risers a problem too?
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abrahma kumar

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What 'problem'? The male wake-up ceremonial? Never

Post21 Sep 2007

ex-l wrote:Blushes :oops: ... are early morning risers a problem too?

Why do some ladies tend to talk of this stuff as a "problem". Someboy help me out please - I am being pecked alive here by the distaff side :oops: Where is a man when you need one? :oops: It this is a problem then i pray to the Lawd that he have His mercy on us boys. You must have been looking over my shoulder as i typed ex-l because i discared references to this traditional early morning - "male wake-up ceremonial" - risers 'problem' from the post :oops:.

I was concerned that mention of it would be deemed way below-the-belt for this here forum. Bearing in mind the spiritual leanings of this here site I wanted to keep on-topic. Anyway, I confess that I can not ever recall this being a hindrance (or spur) to my spiritual study.

Being abek I post this upcoming link purely on the basis of the word problem which you will hear uttered (eventually) by the male guitarist during the song's rap segment. And boys, while you wait for the word 'problem' to arise, do try not to be distracted by the out of tune lip-synch and/or the prancing around of the girls in the group nor the sound of the flushing toilet. :oops:.

I guess that we can say that we once thought there wasn't a problem that Gyan couldn't fix but now that we are looking at the situation from outside the mix we are not so sure. Contrary to any tendency there may be for us to fashion memorials of the Confluence Age from just about anything, i warn that the DJ being referred to in the song is not our esteemed Dadi Janki :oops:. Thank you.

Enough bluhes for you ex-l? (Coincidentally one for each age in the Kalpa - sparing or excluding yours of course).
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freedom

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Post23 Sep 2007

:oops: (blush first ?!) ...
    1) why you guys, consider 'it' a problem??
    2) the natural functions of the body are not 'spiritual' or 'non-spiritual' ... or is it non-spiritual going to the bathroom??
    3) just handle the problem ... do you need details how?? (double blush !!)
Anyway, it is vital to feel good all the time, so you have clarity on your intentions. So whatever it takes: shower, coffee, Yoga, walk, dancing ...

I had better 'Yoga' when my spiritual/attachment/hidden lust BK was around ...
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ex-l

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Post23 Sep 2007

freedom wrote:... or is it non-spiritual going to the bathroom??

I suppose it depends what you are doing in the bathroom and how many of you are in there!

There is a deep seriousness to all these questions. BK Raja Yoga, Gyan, Soul-consciousness is sold to us on the basis that it "works" and is something beyond just an altered state of consciousness. Consciousness can be alerted. It does not necessarily make it divine. There is no real way of making an objective judgement of what is going on in BKs heads but by observing their bodily reactions over a period of time.

Does the practise quell strong chemical reaction that produce such emotions and physiological responses? Do pukka BKs not get erections? Are they are accurate thermometer to a Brother's sage?

I would argue that evidence suggests that is does not, the instution does not want to look at this and it fobs off observations with unproven yuktis like blaming Maya. At what point can a soul be in soul-consciousness during such actions and interactions? There have been notable incidents of highly regarded BKs going off, marrying and engaging in full relationship ... can that be done 'soul-conscious'? Do they degrade quicker?

Its all very challenging and requires input from a broad spectrum of adherents before analysis.
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bkti-pit

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Post23 Sep 2007

ex-l wrote:Did or does anyone experience sexual arousal whilst either practising or teaching the meditation and engaging in all relationships with Baba?

I do once in a while, mostly whilst having karma Yoga. I am talking of Yoga with Shiv Baba. I don't know what triggers it and I used to wonder if it was anything wrong and did not know how to handle it.

I have successfully used the "have all relationships with Shiv Baba" in many ways to fulfill unsatisfied emotional needs. I once tried exploring having a sexual relationship with Shiv Baba, hoping to satisfy some need for physical affection that was manifesting in lustful thoughts and feelings. It has been my most satisfying sexual experience ever. I did not know what to think of it in terms of right or wrong but I must say that it has been a very healing experience and felt clearly much more detached from physical and emotional attraction towards the opposite sex. I have never been able to replicate this to the same intensity.
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tinydot

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Post23 Sep 2007

ex-l wrote:Does the practise quell strong chemical reaction that produce such emotions and physiological responses? Do pukka BKs not get erections?

I must admit that I had a lot of erections every week, especially early in the morning, during my Brahmin years but MOST OF THE TIME, there were NO lustful thoughts on anyone. I think it was just hormonal and in fact, it kept me alert to wake up at Amrit Vela. This erection gave me so much energy during the day.
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ex-l

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Post23 Sep 2007

Did having Yoga deflate it?
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tinydot

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Post23 Sep 2007

ex-l wrote:Did having Yoga deflate it?

Sure, having Yoga would deflate it. It used to get deflated without even controlling to deflate it. Just starting your day, would shift the energy somewhere else. In fact, I did not really care if it was up or not as long as I was covered with shawl.

I must tell everyone, that having a NATURAL erection is purely biological. It's got nothing to do with soul-conciousness. If one is conscious of it, i.e. he thinks it's a sin to have an erection, then by that line of thinking, he/she becomes body-conscious.
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