Have you been to Madhuban and met BapDada ?

for measuring opinion on matters relating to their BKWSU experiences
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Have you been to Madhuban and met BapDada ?

Yes
35
80%
No
9
20%
 
Total votes : 44

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bansy

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Have you been to Madhuban and met BapDada ?

Post29 Jan 2007

It seems that to get a better judgment of the general BK experience of the members in this forum, to see the percentage of those who have been to Madhuban and "met" BapDada.

Applicable to BKs, PBKs, ex-BKs, and everyone else.

To have gone to Madhuban shows the commitment you have placed on the BK concepts and doctrines as it is ultimately the meeting with BapDada.

Please answer : Yes or No

Note: For those who have NOT been to Madhuban, please do also cast the vote No instead of skipping.

This poll does not preclude anyone from making posts in any part of this forum whatsoever.

Thanks for your cooperation.
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proy

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AND

Post04 Feb 2007

Hi Bansy,
Good poll idea. I voted no because I have been to Madhuban but I refused the offer to go again to meet BapDada and to be given a ring. So yes, I have been to Madhuban, but no, I have not met BapDada, unless you count a webcast as a meeting.

It was at that very point that I realised that I was being brainwashed and psychically manipulated. I think now that if I had gone ahead and gone to the meeting and the ring ceremony I would have been in much deeper trouble. I was a BK for a little over a year, and that was enough brainwashing for me. Because I did not take the full commitment I was saved from a long haul of getting myself out again. My advice to anyone would be, "Don't go to see BapDada, and don't accept a ring." Doing these things will bind you to the BKs. I would have had much more of a difficult time getting out from the BKs if I had done these things.

That said, I do also know ex-BKs who had only started to doubt Gyan after their BapDada meeting and getting their ring. Howiemac told me this is very common, the BKs think they will get you in and committed by this method, but it sometimes has the opposite effect. Howie told me about throwing his ring in the sea. Best place for it. If I wear a ring at all it is my wedding ring, which shows my commitment to my marriage with my wife.
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sparkal

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Post14 Feb 2007

I admit to having had 3 personal meetings with Bap Dada in 1983, 84, 85. I have also taken toli and received a personal blessing around 1995 my last time in Madhuban. The personal meeting is not necessarily a mind blowing experience and is the sort of thing which those who have not had a personal meeting may allow to get to them. It is not worth it and besides, I have had many much closer experiences while in the UK through Yoga/ meditation.

The challenges I face in daily life come anyway, none of these personal meetings have changed anything in that respect. On the other hand, perhaps there is a case for listening to what was said and acting upon it, though the moment we decide to do that there is usually some sort of compromise to be faced, or indeed simply allowing others to roll over you out of supposed humility. Human beings seem to be so empty, there is rather a lot of that going on.

The first words Baba said to me were "do you experience yourself to be a victorious jewel?". Tricky situation, do you lie to God and say yes, once again out of supposed humility or do you appear negative yet tell the truth and say no? I don't think I answered, had I been open and honest, I probably would have said something like, "behave yourself man. Me? Victorious?". I now understand and accept my victorious blessing, you also have the same blessing.

In the group meeting, my last meeting with Bap Dada, Gulzar blanked out under a blanket of white light. On other occasions, Gulzar's face has changed to Brahma's, although this is fairly common. By then, we were meeting as the UK group. And now, you probably have to be a BK brand name to get anywhere near the stage. I wonder if that young lad is still there poking his camera in God's face and jumping about the place?
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arjun

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Post14 Feb 2007

sparkal wrote:On the other hand, perhaps there is a case for listening to what was said and acting upon it,

That is the most important thing according to ShivBaba. Listening to the words spoken by Baba and implementing it rather than looking at the face or keeping photoes of the corporeal medium.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun
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yudhishtira

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Post20 Feb 2007

Yup. Been going for over a decade now. Booking to go this year. It reinforces my personal relationship with both Shiva Baba and BB. I tend to write something to both of them whilst waiting for them both to turn up; and I look for my reply in the Murli. I had a very special personal contact one year; not a personal meeting, more like a signal; that will stay with me forever and if I am finding it hard to connect, I always remember it and something in my heart re-opens.

As for the ring. Well, I've got mine. I wear it when I remember to pick it up from the bath room! Its a piece of metal; having it or not having it does not mean really anything, other than a reminder. I had a gold one once. Lost it. Wasn't about to go and ask for another one, as frankly the one I got the first time I went meant more to me anyway.

Like with all stuff; its subtle and in each one's own heart; one of the truest hearted most honest BKs I know doesn't go to Madhuban as they find it difficult physically and doesn't experience anything in particular. It doesn't make them any less. Its their choice.

Unfortunately a lot of BKdom has got caught up in doing rather than being. Low self belief from before Gyan as well as a lot of Hindu cultural stuff was translated into BK systems and the result is a an organisation of bhagats using systems of judgement, comparison, fear, criticism, ego and greed; because people have misunderstood what soul consciousness is and sure as egg replacer is egg replacer, have misunderstood God.

I can say all that and still love Shiva Baba, BB, Gyan and the Maryadas. I also still love the souls I know in the Brahmin family. I am not yet feeling able to be unconditionally loving enough to accept the mess I see being made within the "organisation" this family has become; I ain't gonna force myself to feel good about it until I am ready. Unconditional love is my answer; because I don't want to feel bitter or sad, but I know I ain't there yet. But I ain't gonna give up either. I may be on the sidelines of the "organisation" now; but I know I belong to Shiv Baba and Brahma Baba.

No one can take that away from me by thinking or saying that I am not jumping through the right hoops or trying to please the right people by acting in what they consider to be an "accurate" way. At the end of the day; I am responsible for my life. No one forced me to join the BKs, or has forced me to carry on "believing"; It felt /feels right in my heart. I am not in front of a class trying to prove something, I don't have power over anyone; what I do I do out of love. I know who I am. All I need to do is love myself and experience SBs love.

Those whose actions I am not happy with will not change because I don't like it! They are screwing up because they ARE screwed up. These souls need love; even though they have no respect for me; and certainly no love for me. I know I feel angry because I had expectations of them, put them up there on a pedestal (my choice), when in reality they are no different to me and certainly no better. And I don't want to feel bad about anyone; because that just makes me feel bad. Also I know the more I love myself unconditionally, I will let go of the anger I feel towards certain souls in the "BK leadership", whilst understanding that they've already cooked their metaphorical goose (or should it be nut loaf ...) karmically speaking ...

I know that BapDada has said this stuff about letting go of bitterness; but hey; even if you do not have any truck with them; so does Louise Hay and any one of a number of self help theories! I also accept that my experiences have made me more self reliant and deepened my relationship with Shiva Baba and BapDada, and made me more understanding of others; whereas if I had had warm fuzzy relationships with the Seniors ; I would probably have gone back to my good old co-dependant systems and forgot God entirely!

So frankly, I do not have much truck with labels any more; if Shiva Baba or and BB touched a soul in some way; thats always there. Shiva Baba loves all souls unconditionally; so all this judgemental rubbish ain't coming from MY dad. Whether its a soul who has not taken knowledge, or one who feels uncomfortable with the system, or the pukkaest white saried Sister. Love to em all and to each and every one of you.
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abrahma kumar

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Post20 Feb 2007

Welcome Yudhishtira.
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proy

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Yudhishtira

Post20 Feb 2007

A very enlightening first post Yudhishtira. Thank you and welcome to the forum. :)
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yudhishtira

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Post20 Feb 2007

Thank you Abrahma Kumar and proy for your welcome! :D
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arjun

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Post20 Feb 2007

Dear Yudhishtira,

Omshanti and welcome to the forum. Yes, it is indeed a good first post.

Your name and symbol are interesting. It is believed that after the Mahabharata war, when the Pandava Princes were climbing up a mountain towards heaven along with their wife Draupadi and a dog, Draupadi and the four younger Pandava Brothers melted and died on the way to the peak of the mountain, whereas the eldest Pandava Prince Yudhishtira was able to reach the peak along with the dog, who were welcomed by a deity from heaven who had come with a Chariot to take them to heaven.

So your symbol definitely has a connection with the name that you have chosen. You are also going to a mountain to meet BapDada. I wish you a happy journey and pleasant time at Mount Abu/Taleti.

Best wishes,
OGS,
Arjun
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yudhishtira

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Post21 Feb 2007

Thank you arjun!

I am not entirely sure why I chose to pick a Pandav, but I liked this description of Yudhishtra from Wikipedia; "Yudhisthira's true prowess was shown in his unflinching adherence to satya (truth) and dharma (righteousness), which were more precious to him than any royal ambitions, material pursuits and family relations." which is to say he followed what he believed to be right; even if its a tough call; which I can relate to.. I love mountains. I live near mountains, which is why I picked that image.

I'd forgotten the bit about him being the only one to reach the mountain top. The bit about the dog always made me laugh, not quite sure of the significance of that or whether dogs are meant to be able to ascend to a higher plane :lol:. Many thanks for your good wishes for my Madhuban trip :D
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arjun

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Post21 Feb 2007

Dear Yudhishtira,
Omshanti. The qualities associated with Yudhishthira are indeed worthy of emulation by everyone.
From the point of view of Advanced Knowledge, ShivBaba (through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) has described the soul of Dada Lekhraj (Brahma Baba) as Yudhisthir because the literal meaning of the word is 'one, who remains stable/unshakeable in a warfield'. In the Advanced Knowledge, it is believed that it was through the partner of Brahma Baba that ShivBaba gave the clarification of the divine visions caused to Dada Lekhraj and took care of the Yagya for some time, but departed from the Yagya after some years, while Dada Lekhraj continued to take care of the Yagya as Brahma, i.e. senior mother till his demise. Although Dada Lekhraj's partner played the role of Prajapita in the beginning by giving birth to Brahmins, but did not give sustenance to the Brahmin family, while Brahma Baba remained stable/unshakeable in the spiritual warfield. So he proves to be Yudhishthir.

As regards the dog, it is mentioned in the mythological stories that when the deity of desires, i.e. Kaamdev managed to disturb the penance of Shankar, he was cursed to get transformed into a dog, but on the request of his wife Rati, the bane was modified a little to the effect that although he would still get transformed into a dog and live on Earth, he would remain invisible to the world. He was told that he would be able to return to heaven only after the Mahabharata war. In the Advanced Knowledge this has been explained in this way. The dog represents the root and seed souls of Islam religion. In the explanation of the Advance Course of World Tree it is explained that the special feature of Islam is sex-lust. So, the souls which have sex-lust as the dominant feature in the Confluence Age also go to the heaven but their sex-lust remains suppressed for 2500 years during heaven, but resurfaces when the soul of Abraham descends from the Soul World in the Copper Age and these deity souls with suppressed characteristics of Islam get converted to Islam.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun
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yudhishtira

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Post06 Mar 2007

Wasn't sure where to post this; but just thought I'd let you know that I will be off at the end of the week for my annual vacation to the land of honey.. as I am going to be busy for the rest of the week, I wasnt sure if I would have time to post, and also will be out at lunch times spending my hard earned $s on those little things that help Madhuban visits along (like travel wash, pegs and vitamin C :lol: ) I may not be back on until the second week in April, when hopefully will be getting a home connection to the Almighty Net
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sparkal

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Post07 Mar 2007

On my last visit to Madhuban I slept on a cold hard floor the first two nights. I was then moved to a dorm with maybe 21 of us. Mike George was in a nice little room next door with 4 beds and beckoned me through to take one. An Indian Brother appeared and said that the other beds were taken by he and other Indian Brothers. (They may have been from outside India of course). Gyan Sarovar was being built at the time, still, it let me know how much more important some people are than others. Sooner or later, the lies will be dispelled as cold hard truth emerges.

I don't blame Mike George, I blame the system which allows it to go on. There are many important types in the BKs who strut around looking down on others. The proof comes when they meet someone who has been around for a long time but, being so important, they have not taken the bother to mingle and get to know their fellow family members, even if they are a lower number (come and try me ...) Are you listening Ken? Charlie? And all you other very important types. We will see just how important you all are as time goes on as your past actions will surely project you into elevated roles right? We'll see. We'll see. (I know I should not speak to such elevated important beings like this, I will repent in self-abuse now. Sure).

So there you have it, some are more important than others, and that is that. I hope all these important souls never have to prove their importance as it could be rather tricky for them. Anyway, it was probably more fun with the bigger group what with all the coughing farting and snoring. Then there is that flu that almost seems obligatory. Sure, a great place. Come and lie in your bed ill for two weeks and have a wonderful time.

And what of the homosexual activities (if there are any?) Time to get your own house in order BKs instead of looking at others. I don't care if the house in question cost you £10m or £10.

GOOD BYE!
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yudhishtira

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Post08 Mar 2007

Thanks for reminding me Sparkal, to add ear plugs and an sleeping eye-mask to my shopping list!! I've observed what you talk about myself. Personally, I feel that if such souls are taking their self respect from such privileges, they are gonna go to the dogs when things get tough, so good luck to em. I'll go where I am put and make sure my ear-plugs are well secured :lol:

I got diarrhea (could never spell that ...) and vomiting and ended up on a drip in the dispensary last year for a few days, but it was quite chilled and enabled me to overcome my fear of needles and Indian hospitals ...

Referring to your other point, having known of some lesbian BKs who have a tough time with all the emphasis on shared accommodation, I am sure we are no more immune from this than the RC church ... but seems it is the great untalked about issue..
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alladin

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privileges

Post16 Mar 2007

Paraphrasing a Murli song: " Who came into your mind this morning and woke you up with such ideas? Maybe Bholanath, the Innocent Lord, the Lord of the Poor?"

I was dreaming and churning and recalling at the same time, made up a short list of privileges in Madubhan we encountered:
    quality of food and where you dine,
    special rooms, accomodation and facilities,
    where you sleep and bathe,
    where you sit, especially during BapDada's meetings (reserved first rows seats).
The system of privileges, status and caste differences is omnipresent and never explained or justified. Try and ask and you get the label as "trouble maker". It's all take or leave it. I swallowed but still haven't digested it, this is why it came back to my mind this morning.
It's one of the reasons why my feeling to go to Madhubhan has decreased over the years.

If you like pomp and show, groups and service meetings, and don't mind crowds, car exhaust fumes, noise and chaos too much, it's still the right place. Very sorry to say that.
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