BKWSU, the business, money and selling Gyan

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ex-l

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BKWSU, the business, money and selling Gyan

Post17 Jun 2006

From http://www.charitiesdirect.com/CharityD ... orgid=5965

Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University
Also Known As : World Renewal Spiritual Trust (UK)
Address : Global Co-operation House
65 Pound Lane
London
NW10 2HH
Tel : 020 8727 3350

Charity Registration Number : 269971
Founded : 1975
Constitution : Trust

Key Statistics

Total Annual Income : £ 1.49m
Admin Costs as % of Total expenditure : 7.25%
Admin Costs as % of Total income : 6.09%
Fundraising costs as % of Voluntary Income : 0.30%
Fundraising costs as % of Total Expenditure : 0.23%
Total Funds : £ 15.75m

Whereas the low level of Admin costs are enviable for other charities, what is amazing is the level of fundraising costs at 0.3%. Most charities would be up betwee 10 to 20%. The BKWSU ought to be very grateful for Hindi Bhakti sanskars of giving to the temple without being asked.

Anyone have figures from other countries or know where this all goes?

I wonder what they are doing with a cool £ 15 Million sitting in the bank? Actually, for less than that much one could become a bank!
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bansy

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Post17 Jun 2006

Somewhere in Murlis is mentioned donations and charities are important on the path of devotion, and remembrance on the path of knowledge. Maybe the BKs should not have registered themselves as a charity.
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ex-l

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Post17 Jun 2006

bansy wrote:Somewhere in Murlis is mentioned donations and charities are important on the path of devotion, and remembrance on the path of knowledge. Maybe the BKs should not have registered themselves as a charity.

At reasonable interest rates, that £ 15 M could equate to about £ 700,000 annual income - either included in or on top of the other £ 1.5 M. I do not know which.

Now, take off the cost of leasing and running the Country Mansion in Oxfordshire, land rates and utilities on the London centre and the Senior Sister's saris, woollen socks and international airfares - where does the rest go? My guess all the mortgages are paid and building / maintenance done on the cheap via Bharatwasis.

No hotel fees and few expenses to pay when they travel, no sponsoring local centres; a bit of extra central heating and breakfast for the BK proletariat one week? I wonder if it is all going back to India?

Note for the money minded, the best interest rates of around 5% are available from Indian banks, now spreading internationally.
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ex-l

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BKWSU, the business and money

Post05 Jul 2006

arjun wrote:2. If death is staring at us then why are BKs collecting properties worth crores of rupees in every big and small city of the world? Baba has permitted construction of buildings at Madhuban because children come and meet Father there. But if we collect properties throughout the world and tell the world that death is staring at us, then who will believe us?

Its a fair point to make, e.g. ; how and why did the BKWSU amass £ 15,000,000 worth in the UK with so little fund raising budget? [1,287,262,000 Rupees] Why does the Charity Commission note that there have been large movements of cash now that there are some investigations being made into their activities? Why have the BKWSU changed their principles and guidelines to say that they are promoting Hinduism and celebrating Hindu festivals? But I think it is simplistic argument that might impress individuals with little education and be easily defended by the clever individuals that manage the business of the BKWSU. (Who are they, by the way?) The answer would be, " a) God comes in Gulzar and b) because it is cheaper to mortgage property than rent it and by purchasing property, it allows the BKWSU to be more free in whatever activities they chose to do without any 'Kaliyugi' landlord or local government interfering ".

BUT as a young and very earnest BK it used to confuse me deeply how certain influential BKs and BK supports could believe that the world was going to end and then engaged in mortgages, pensions, stocks and shares investments whilst at the other end we were encouraged to give up our lives, education, professional ambition and our money and to do basic service. It was almost as thought they had the ability to believe and not believe at the same time. You might ask, why do the BKWSU ask individuals to donate their properties to them in their Will? They would, of course, say it is to increase the individuals inheritance [ good karma ].

Can I suggest that you research the financial status of the BKWSU in India and other countries? Do you have a Charity Commission there? Is the BKWSU a charity or trust or private business? Or many such organisations? What sort of money are we talking about? Why was there never an annual financial report made and openly published?

There is a very famous book in the West called "Animal Farm" by George Orwell. It is one of our 20th Century 'scripture'. I don't know how widely known it is in India. It was an allegory of Communist Russia in which the animals, led by the pigs, rebelled and threw out the old human farmer - only for the pigs to gradually take over, re-write history and the rules to become exactly like the farmer once again - only this time to treat the rest of the animals even worse. At one crucial stage in the story, the pigs move into the farmhouse, start dressing like humans to be able to do business with human, walking on two legs. There excuse is that it is good for the farm to do the opposite of what the rules they made were. It reminds me a little of the complete and absolute U-Turn the BKWSU are making. They would argue that they need the big buildings and nice environments because of the numbers coming and to impress VIPs.

If it is true that the BKWSU says to the Charity Commission that they are promoting Hinduism and celebrating Hindu festivals, what does it make them? Liars to the Charity Commission and therefore the British State and Crown, or hypocrits to God. Either way, I am sorry to say, it is a religion of hypocrisy. The Seniors are showing the example that to get ahead one needs to lie and become a hypocrit, that it is OK to be a hypocrit. What does ShivBaba say to the PBKs about "microphone souls"? Is he still so obsessed at PBK to find VIPs to broadcast the message? Or did the BKs misunderstand this? Excuse my lack of precise knowledge of the Murlis but does God not make quite a clear distinction between Raja Yoga and Bhakti and does he not say that BKs should not perform Bhakti rituals and festivals?

I can say that within the BKWSU, this doubletalk and distortion is the norm. That they are experts at presenting a facade or charade to outsiders. Likewise, would one honestly want individuals that were only impressed by material things to be attracted to this path? To me that seems to be the opposite of what you would want. Now, is that justifiable? I don't know ... they obviously see it as a Yukti for infiltrating the Establishment and climbing the slippery pole on their search for a 'microphone' to broadcast their message. If they were honest no one BUT BK souls would come to them, everyone else would see them as a mad, a threat or a danger and run away. It strikes me that they have given up that deep, simple integrity in order to increase their political power - and those individuals that rise quickest within the organisation and are externally rewarded as those that are best at playing this game. We are talking good at VIP service, PR, bureaucracy, inflitrating committees, politics, social services or so on.

I have been considering the topics posted by BK sparkal and have to agree to some extent; do I remember individuals being particularly recognised on behalf of their power of Yoga or depth of experience or integrity to the teachings? The attention seemed to be on conforming to the wishes of the Seniors and the status game. I don't blame or accuse the BKWSU here. Personally, I think that they are being misled and seduced into activities that are not entirely Godly by those that are not that Godly themselves - and looking too heavily to the the Kaliyuga world for examples of 'how to do things'. Either these individuals are NOT actually following princples themselves or are quite new to the organisation and so have not really gone through the transformation process. I would question whether they are transferring their worldly ambitions to institutional ambitions. It is a young organisation and will make mistakes. I just hope that not too many individuals are hurt along the way.
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arjun

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Post11 Jul 2006

(Who are they, by the way?) The answer would be, " a) God comes in Gulzar and b) because it is cheaper to mortgage property than rent it and by purchasing property, it allows the BKWSU to be more free in whatever activities they chose to do without any 'Kaliyugi' landlord or local government interfering".

But it was originally directed by Father Shiv through the Sakar Murlis narrated through Brahma Baba that the BKs should acquire property only at Mt. Abu because it was expected that in the end all of Baba's children would gather at Mt. Abu.

As regards other places Baba has directed that the BKs should go on acquiring accomodation on rent. But what is being witnessed is just opposite. And if one investigates seriously there may be many cases where the BK center buildings may be in the name of individual BK teachers/BK Seniors instead of the World Renewal Trust.

With regards,
OGS,
Arjun
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arjun

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Post11 Jul 2006

ex-l wrote:BUT as a young and very earnest BK it used to confuse me deeply how certain influential BKs and BK supports could believe that the world was going to end and then engaged in mortgages, pensions, stocks and shares investments whilst at the other end we were encouraged to give up our lives, education, professional ambition and our money and to do basic service.

Dear ex-l, I am surprised at the word 'Pensions' highlighted by you. Does any foreign Government grant pension to BK teachers of that country or have the BKs started granting pensions to the surrendered BK teachers?

As far as I know there have been many cases where BK teachers from affluent families bring a hefty amount from their houses when they surrender. I do not know if that amount is deposited in the banks in their names or in the name of the BK institution. I have also heard of cases where the Sisters from 'not so rich' background are also asked to get some amount, which becomes an obstacle for them to surrender. Anyways, one thing is clear that the BK teachers from poor and rich backgrounds are treated accordingly by the BK administration. The BK teachers from the poor background are asked to do sundry jobs like cleaning, mopping, cooking, washing clothes etc. while the more comfortable service like narrating Murlis/course is done by the BK teachers from rich background. But sadly Baba must not have imagined this situation.
With regards,
OGS,
Arjun
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ex-l

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The Beggary

Post02 Dec 2006

arjun wrote:But it was originally directed by Father Shiv through the Sakar Murlis narrated through Brahma Baba that the BKs should acquire property only at Mt. Abu because it was expected that in the end all of Baba's children would gather at Mt. Abu.

As regards other places Baba has directed that the BKs should go on acquiring accomodation on rent. But what is being witnessed is just opposite. And if one investigates seriously there may be many cases where the BK center buildings may be in the name of individual BK teachers/BK Seniors instead of the World Renewal Trust.

It is amazing the gems one discovers going back and reading the archives of this forum. It is a bit like the Sakar Murlis. I had never heard that BB said "the BKs should only acquire property in Abu". Another bit of Shirmat binned and ashame they did not listen because they would have owned the entire mountain by now ... I supose they think that they will get it for free or the India Government/Army will sort it out for them. I mentioned in another post how one newspaper reported that the president had his own quarters for himself and security force up there. Nice neighbours ...

But this aspect of BK center buildings being in the name of individual BKs instead of the World Renewal Trust interested me and I did some research. I do not know about India, but in most developed nations it is relatively simple and cost free to find out who owns what. And it is true ... there is something funny going on here. Again, something that is not transparent, documented and discussed. It is not just the properties it seems to be the mortgages too. When BKs give to the bandara, it seems that their donations are going to pay mortgages that are in individual BK's names. Obviously, Mr Green documented where some center-in-charge instructed him as a BK to pay the center-in-charges mortgage so that the center-in-charge could surrender. Others would call it "living off" student/s.

To answer your other question, again in most Developed nations, when individuals reach the age of 60 or 65 they are all given a small pension to live off. Generaly just enough to buy food, pay rent and heating. This is a useful source of income that allows for individuals who have separated from their families not to work. But I was think of cases where BK with high status had fat pensions from their careers and kept it rather than donating it to the Yugya but were still instruments to encougaring poor students to give verything they had.

To tie this back into the topic of The Beggary ... the name for the period when Lekhraj Kirpalani's money allegedly ran out ... and what I wrote about the BKWSU charity being set up "to alleviate wealth", I would be hard pressed not to be cynical that a large part of "The Machine" has been set up to alleviate The Machine's poverty. And it has done so sucessfully. The BKWSU has NEVER alleviated anyone else's poverty t my knowledge and I can remember the Jayanti Kirpalani's of this world stating clearly that the BKWSU does not do social work. It takes cash and "donates virtues".

Now, to do so there must have been considerable thought and planning over a long period of time (... by who?) and there are signs that "the model" has been exported via their networks to other countries because similar examples pop up elsewhere. Does anyone have any experience of these financial meetings and planning or know what was going on at their own center?

Aimeé, we miss you. Although I had picked up about the first 10 years being wiped out of the Yagya's hstory, I had not heard of the confusion over the 4/14 years of tapasya either. I suppose the BKWSU claim this because they want to be seen as "the Pandavas" out their in poverty (being fed and housed by Lekhraj Kirpalani). Can you take that even deeper? What did they actually do apart from sit around in Satsang, do marching practise and have visions?
    • One other questions, I have heard that this Million Pound property down in Worthing is going to be some kind of retiral home, can any BK qualify this? Apart from BKs with families, before now I have only heard about retiring BKs who surrendered their lives to give to the Yugya being left to enter government run sheltered or retirement homes because they have no family to look after them.
Obviously, we were taught that Destruction was going to come in 76, 86, 2000 ... always the 5 to 10 years figure ... and this was not planned for. Is there some discussion and planning being made about the future comforts of all the surrendered Sisters? I am not passing judgement, I'd just like to know. It would constitutes a new evolution in the organization.

I hear in India enormous properties were donated to Brahma Kumaris in Hyderabad by the Telugu Desam government.
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Mr Green

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Post02 Dec 2006

It is definitely the case in the UK that the centres are mostly not strictly owned by the BKWSU.

What happens is service is done in a certain area in the hope that an 'instrument' soul will be found there who is willing to let their property be used for Godly service, therefore saving expense of renting halls etc.

Then if that person's "intellect opens", and they decide to surrender, then their house can become an official centre which involves the old ceremony (I cannot for the life of me remember what it is called except that it begins with c ... It's like the place has been ordained or officially sanctioned) in which the coconut is cracked on the doorstep etc and, eventually, you will receive a formal certificate from Madubhan stating it to be an official centre. I think this is often done just to please the ego of the centre-in-charge but it is seen as a sort of Godly blessing that this is an official mini-Madubhan.

Never in this process are the deeds aquired by the BKWSU, the mortgage is still held in the name of the centre in charge, but everything is willed to the BKWSU. This is understanable, i suppose, as often there could be a considerable mortgage left on the property and the BKs are hardly likely to pay this off!

But it is definitely true that monies taken from Baba's box are used to pay bills and running costs at the centres, depending on how honest these people are. The centre I was at the centre-in-charge would often hand someone the electricity bill for instance and they would feel it their fortune to be able to pay it for him. Little knowing that such practices, of course, bypass the accounting process.

The official policy used to be that all monies collected in the box should be sent to London to be accounted and if you need anything for the centre then you request some of that money back. But, in reality, it doesn't work like that and people just pay things directly. So the accounting of the BKs is a mess and entirely inaccurate.

The real problem here is that the system is open to abuse ... and that has happened.
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ex-l

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Post02 Dec 2006

Mr Green wrote:The official policy used to be that all monies collected in the box should be sent to London to be accounted and if you need anything for the centre then you request some of that money back. But, in reality, it doesn't work like that and people just pay things directly. So the accounting of the BKs is a mess and entirely inaccurate.

The real problem here is that the system is open to abuse ... and that has happened.

Interesting from a legal point of view. Does that mean money from Baba's box went to pay the mortgages? Was there is no legal document, no franchise, no contract? Someone could just leave and take the all the benefit? We heard about those Sisters in Indian both runing centers making a very comfortable existence for themselves, although I suppose the real pay off is the feeling important and part of a big UN related thing.

I can imagine that the BKWSU lackies are reading this and starting to itch. Although whatever comes up, they will probably get through it by being super nice and sending a sweet little Sister to sort it out. What sort of money was passing through the boxes? In the old days someone came up with a 10% of your wages figure, a tithe, although I cant remember it being in the Murli.

Looking at it from a distance, it sounds like real mess. Individuals are suckered in during the Honeymoon Period, wrapped up into giving their life over, tied up into sort of dodgy legal financial stuff that means that they are a little conspiratorial, then more and more kept too busy to think on the latest service scheme which stretch further and further from Gyan or Baba; Values Education, Leadership Management ... what did BapDada say about "Leadership Management"?

If there is no contract, there is basically no relationship and the centers-in-charge are just operating their own little business. Albeit it not very profitable. Or is the "formal certificate" a contract in disguise?

As far as the bhakti-lite ceremonies like cracking coconuts, I suppose that got to keep doing something to keep your consumers entertained ... its funny that something that was a bit of a giggle in the beginning, and pure Bhakti let's face, has become so formal and set in concrete.

Does London keep the money or does it get sent back to India?
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proy

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Follow the Money

Post05 Feb 2007

Follow the Money
ex-l wrote:I wonder if it is all going back to India?

Could be, that's where all the big building projects are, but there are also some major property acquisitions in the UK. eg Worthing. BKs in Scotland are on the lookout for a property similar to the retreat centre in Oxford. Reports vary. Some Sisters say Dadi Janki has a pot of money put aside ready for the centre, others report that Janki has just told them there is no money in the bank. That is what I think they call being, "Economical with the truth". No doubt the story varies, and they would really like some dupe to donate the property or the money.
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ex-l

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Re: Follow the Money

Post06 Feb 2007

proy wrote:others report that Janki has just told them there is no money in the bank.

Does Janki mean the BKWSU bank account or her own bank account?
    On the Charity Commission website, the Total Funds for the UK has risen to £16.29m.
It might be worth ordering the latest accounts and having a look see what it all means. I have not seen them and so I cannot comment. Of course, the whole thing is a big fudge ... who "owns" the centers when the mortgages are still in the names of the center-in-charges or sponsor?
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proy

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Re: Follow the Money

Post06 Feb 2007

ex-l wrote:Does Janki mean the BKWSU bank account or her own bank account?

I can only repeat what the (Australian) Sister told me. She said, " I have just come from a personal meeting with Dadi Janki and she said there is no money in the bank."

My own interpretation at the time was that the BKWSU bank was what was meant, which is obviously BS. When I said this (not in those words) the centre sister-in-charge backed me up and said, "Dadi has set aside half a million for the project".
ex-l wrote:Of course, the whole thing is a big fudge ... who "owns" the centers when the mortgages are still in the names of the center-in-charges or sponsor?

Of course, this is true. The next thing that happened was that they started to work on a new Brother to encourage him to buy the property. To my shame now, I have to admit that I joined in that encouragement. The centre I was at is actually owned by a Brother, unless he has since given it to the BKWSU. Anyway, he certainly bought it and still bankrolls them now.
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ex-l

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Re: Follow the Money

Post06 Feb 2007

proy wrote:I can only repeat what the (Australian) Sister told me. She said, " I have just come from a personal meeting with Dadi Janki and she said there is no money in the bank."

My own interpretation at the time was that the BKWSU bank was what was meant, which is obviously BS. When I said this (not in those words) the centre Sister-in-charge backed me up and said, "Dadi has set aside half a million for the project".

Of course, this is true. The next thing that happened was that they started to work on a new Brother to encourage him to buy the property.

Well, the difference between two figures above is pretty much exactly £500,000 (.54M) but it is hard to know what is going if she has "money of her own" tucked away.

I don't want to comment on the next sucker being lined up to "earn his inheritance in the Golden Age". But imagine if that is true ... folks being told there is no money too keep the dosh coming in.
    Does no one within the BKs question this?
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Mr Green

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Post06 Feb 2007

To question the integrity of the Seniors for a BK is tantamount to questioning the will of God Himself ... not easy for someone attempting to die alive (what a horrid phrase!).

When Diamond House, or Dadi's House, was being built we were all regularly told money was running short and to give more, why would we ever have suspected different? ... I, for one, believed it was God. Why would I think his highest chosen instruments would be not quite giving it straight?
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john

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Post06 Feb 2007

Mr Green wrote:To question the integrity of the Seniors for a BK is tantamount to questioning the will of God Himself ... not easy for someone attempting to die alive (what a horrid phrase!). When Diamond House, or Dadi's House, was being built we were all regularly told money was running short and to give more, why would we ever have suspected different? ... I, for one, believed it was God. Why would I think his highest chosen instruments would be not quite giving it straight?

Arrgh Ghastly!

Told to give more! Actually, according to Shrimat (Shiva's from Murli) money doesn't get anyone that far in the 'inheritance' stakes. If I remember correctly, it was said Mama did not have any money. What a travesty of the Yagya.
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