Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

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Pink Panther

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Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

Post11 Apr 2017

Hi Mann,

When a person is going through stuff, they get caught up in the details, too close, and miss the over-arching patterns that someone viewing from a distance can.

What I read in your posts is that your relationship with the BKs is very transactional, even the dialogue is a kind of haggling.

Then your relationship with ”Baba” to me sounds like an inner dialogue between you (the conscious you) and your unfulfilled expectations, ideals, wannabes, shoulda beens.

That it manifests so readily in the way it does, as a kind of voice, indicates to me that you are not doing what you really want to be doing but are not sure what it is you really want to be doing. And the only ”language" you have to express feelings and impulses is the BK language, and that is only going to tell you, repeat back to you, what BKs repeat ad nauseum

And from what you say, it does make some people sick to the stomach, literally! It may partly be nerves, but it can also be exacerbated by an inner knowing that its all an act, a well rehearsed role that garners applause, and that applause is addictive.

The other pattern i see from afar that you may be missing is how much your family care for you, how they are frustrated and unable to find a means of communicating their love for you other than being critical of that which they see is harming you. Maybe you can find a way to relate to your mum or dad or your closest sibling, or an aunt or uncle you feel close to ... relate in a way that is not based on words and debates but just enjoy each others company and rekindle the closeness most have with families when we are younger and less opinionated, less eager to prove we are different.

Maybe express some gratitude to them might be a positive opener of a new dialogue. Gratitude brings Grace - the words are twins that cannot be separated.
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Mann

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Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

Post11 Apr 2017

The honest confession is, the life at the center seems to provide some luxuries without actually slogging out in the corporate world. One has to be very rich or have a highly paying job to avail of something similar in a normal environment.

Thanks Pink for pointing out that ..." the dialogue is "haggling" ... I knew it too. But when it comes from another person, it gains impact.

I think I have become very lazy and spoilt to bear the burnt of a corporate life again combined with the added work taking care of a domestic chores all my myself. I don't remember when was the last time I have to remind myself to pay electricity, internet, phone bill myself ... Brothers do everything.

Here at the you can live a queen's life in one of the best cities of the country without ever working ... not even stepping out of the house (except for the walks, exercises or shopping).

But the truth is I cannot lie to myself ... to innocent people looking for real solutions for their problems. The 7 day course or anything else thats marketed by the BKs cannot solve any of the behavioral issues any faces. I know it and something the guilt is overwhelming ... I will leave the center again in 2 months.

Pink,I did not understand what did you mean by
"And from what you say, it does make some people sick to the stomach, literally! It may partly be nerves, but it can also be exacerbated by an inner knowing that its all an act, a well rehearsed role that garners applause, and that applause is addictive."

(how do you pick up a quote from other's reply?)

Are you referring to being used by this energy for public speeches and the applause received?

It's pretty common though few BK speakers have admitted it publicly. It feels very strange personally. Sometimes people quote you later after the programme has ended and quite unnerving if they want a further explanation because I don't know what was being spoken through me ... It's real. To avoid the embarrassment, I just ask them to repeat everything that was said before or afterwards. Sometimes (in BK gathering), I just accept "Baba" uses me to give them what they wanted while I was on the stage and afterwards I am just by myself. I saw this happen to Shivani, Usha (of Shantivan), Girish Patel and two relatively unknown speakers too. They have all been guests at one of the centers I was in.

Somebody did record some part of one of my speech and when I saw the video later, I was astounded! It was completely against my own personal views on that subject. Not only were the thoughts against mine but the expressions,body language was also not mine ... I am being used to market a faulty product to gullible people and irony is by my own wishes!

The applause is for that clever "guy" not me. Because I have never been so mean and shall not be. BKs are not teaching anything which can help somene change the quality,speed of their thoughts ... It's natural! How can anybody be constantly happy or peaceful every moment??

If they did, why would so many top-notch BK have so much Maya ... ego (you can see it on full display at BapDada milan).

Yes, my family is very loving and we have very cordial relations. We are still in touch over phone but I know my parents are hurt, embarrased and worried by sudden transformations, i.e BKism. They just want me to happy without the influence of the cult. Infact, if I did not insist of the separate food, they were taking care of me like they have always done. I will make it up very soon.I feel sorry for them .. They deserve to be treated better. They brought me into the world and gave me the confidence, skills which I am able to use. I am serving selfish strangers while ignoring my own family !!

Another interesting thing I noticed (thought at heart I knew but did not accept) is that the voice is repeating mostly what I really want for myself. So it's subconscious talking to conscious ...

ex-l, I wish to be celibate for many others reasons too. It seems to me that you have spent very little time in India outside Abu. Modern Indian marriages are a torture for educated, financially independent women. Post LPG of 1990's (liberalisation, privatisation and globalisation of Indian economy) women became independent financially and more confident too. Men have not changed at the same pace. They still want a replica of their mothers. In short, married women are like unpaid slaves (pretty much the same as juniors Sisters at most of the centers) except that you have children too to take care of . It's horrible. Most of the women I know in my age -group are either divorced, or going through painful, abusive marriages (if they have kids, women suffer in silence for the sake of kids). A few are single !

Besides, there's not much a man can provide that I cannot have myself. Except for lifting the gas cylinders at home!
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ex-l

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Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

Post11 Apr 2017

You don't have to date/marry an Indian man ... or would that kill your family too?

I am a big fan of Priyanka Chopra's example, right at the moment. ;-)

Of course, it does not need to be a man either.

When you are young being single and independent is OK. As you get older, it's better to have an ally. As lots of ex- and older BKs are finding out right now as Destruction has not happened and their retirement without benefit or family has.

Then there are always stray cats and homeless dogs to adopt ... if you want unconditional love (and an exercise partner).
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Pink Panther

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Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

Post12 Apr 2017

India has 1/6th of the world’s population, and just as you are not ”typical" there are going to be millions out of the billion that are also not typical.

You ask ...
Pink,I did not understand what did you mean by
"And from what you say, it does make some people sick to the stomach, literally! It may partly be nerves, but it can also be exacerbated by an inner knowing that its all an act, a well rehearsed role that garners applause, and that applause is addictive."

Well, you referred to it earlier, about yourself being sick before speaking then it disappearing when you speak. You then referred to others with similar experiences - back pain (feeling unsupported ...?).

As for speaking publicly without planning, well, I am a part-time teacher. Once you know your subject, you can basically go out and give a recitation without planning; it comes out of you a little differently each time but you have drawn from the same well. That's why it can be a two-faced performance if it is something you don't really believe. Many salespeople leave their jobs because they hate what is being asked of them to say - even if they do it well.

You also have painted a false picture of your choices. A false binary. There are infinite possibilities. Not being a BK does not mean you have to return to a corporate job, if you don’t want to. My Brother studied law but then became a small business owner. An old friend who was an MA, or was it a PhD, preferred cabinetmaking and joinery, eventually becoming a writer on those subjects. My neighbour is a university lecturer in physics but is currently a child care/early education teacher for 2-5 year olds. She enjoys it, even if she may return later to academia.

Jospeh Campbell says a person has to find then follow their bliss, to feel their life is fulfilled. That is, we have to realise what it is we really want and enjoy most - then follow that. Not what others expectations or social / family conditioning tell me I should want. However simple, humble, grand or ”selfish” (selfish in the sense of doing it for yourself, even when others think its not what you should be doing).

For some, they may really bliss out in a corporate environment but, usually, most people use their job to support the 'something else’ that they love. If growing orchids is where you are most happy, then having a simple job that you can walk away from in the evening or weekends to then spend with your orchids will bring much contentment in life.

What do you want to do when you have the time to do whatever you want?

What dream / wish have you left unexplored that you may have been diverted from, that is waiting for you to make up your mind? Its really a question for you to answer for yourself, not for us, as much as it'd be nice to know.
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Mann

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Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

Post14 Apr 2017

Yes, I know I have a lot of options out there.I had almost forgotten that most of the members on this forum are not Indians though more than 90% of BKs are Indians ... It's not easy to switch careers here. But, yes, with determined thought you can do anything ... I would like to help people. This is what makes me happy. I am a trained as counselor. I will decide about I would like to do after 2 months a bit later ... Right now, I just want to be able concentrate ... relax ...

But right now I am feeling slightly depressed and low. Whenever I am reading the Murli for the class and something which I don't agree comes up and read it (but in my own mind I hate it or resist explaining it) I have this acute pressure in my head like a sudden headache ... So, in my mind, I just say, "OK, dude you are right" and the pain disappears. Hmmm ... There are no cult specializing psychologists in our country that I can find on internet.

I cannot focus on anything else right now. I was trying to study today and inspite of being with a book (non-BK) for more than 2 hours I could hardly study 2 pages ... And if somebody came up for listening to Murli, then I could repeat the whole Murli without even referring to the text .. How strange !!

I am kind of feeling lost and gloomy.
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ex-l

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Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

Post14 Apr 2017

The starting point is a period of total separation. Take everything connected to BKism, put it in a box and get rid of it, and cut connections with them. Burn your bridges with them. Make sure they remove your emails or text message addresses from their servers.

If you want, you can always do something so bad they don't want you back.

Yes, for sure, there might be a period of re-adjustment but whatever effects you experience, they will diminish with time once your determination kicks in. I don't recommend a "half-half" lifestyle, dropping back in or remaining "serviceable" contact. That will only leave you in a drone state.

I know other BKs/ex-BKs who experienced pressures or aches in the head as you describe, including myself. When I first left, I convinced myself "Baba" (or BKs) were still chasing me or dropping in to visit me (I saw bright points of light), but they stopped. I suppose a classic analyst type would interpret them differently as sub-conscious urges. I tend just to accept the BK explanation, that they are psychical induced pressures ... but psychical induced pressures are wrong and typical of low level or negative psychicism, therefore best to get far away from.

Yes, life is not easy, that is just the way it is. It is generally harder outside of a group and the group dynamic is what keeps many of us in, long after our belief has faded. BKs take the place of our old friends and family, our old clan or jati. They know that. So cut off.

Find something to do that keeps your mind occupied whether in business or other service. Talk your mind out of BKism, just like you talked your mind into BKism.

Find alternative 'safety nets' for when times go bad. That is what we offer here.

They know 10,000 tricks and excuses (yuktis) to keep you attached to them, so largely it's not worth discussing anything, or trying to reason with them.

Oh, take as much money as you can from them and give it away to charity instead ... that will really pee them off. If there's one thing they really care about, it's the money. There's an easy way to be banned from the centres! No going back, no taking bits of BKism with you.

Find another spiritual practise that is not psychically coercive, if you need one. Or discover the truth ... that you don't need one to survive. Religion is just an opiate (addictive drug) for the masses.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

Post15 Apr 2017

There are no cult specializing psychologists in our country that I can find on internet.

Well, if ever there was an undersupplied market for the cult-exit therapy it's India!! My friend, you have stumbled on a goldmine! if you can study in that area, either upping your counselling qualifications for that or doing a new course in psychology, you could charge what you like to wealthy families and use that to subsidise charitable work.

I was once down on cosmetic surgeons (dismissive, disrespectful), especially those who ‘resculpted' hollywood housewives until one day I saw a documentary where one who practiced in Beverly Hills California and had many models, actresses as clients and charged a fortune, showed how he and many of his colleagues used that money to travel to Africa for three-four months each year to work to fix up burns victims, cleft palettes and other reconstructive surgery for the poor for free.

I agree with ex-l on the necessity of a complete and total break. I know a few people who fell into the old pattern, thinking they will return to BKs "just for a little meditation” and then, before long, they are ”volunteering” more and more hours, more and more money, to support the bloated parasitic beast that is the BKWSU and they eventually identify even more definitely as a BK than ever before.

In Australia, they now hire out their retreat venues to non-BK groups, i.e. charge money for the venue and food etc, then get BK volunteers to come cook and clean, for no pay. Given that a spiritual life is an inner, personal thing and, as even Dada Lekhraj said, you only need the 3 sq feet of ground you sit on, real estate (and supporting the incumbents) has become the raison d’etre of the BKs.
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ex-l

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Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

Post15 Apr 2017

Pink Panther wrote:In Australia, they now hire out their retreat venues to non-BK groups, i.e. charge money for the venue and food etc, then get BK volunteers to come cook and clean, for no pay.

That's hysterical. That's basically just making money by charging for labour you don't pay for, on the use of property you never paid for.

And the guy that runs BK Australia lives off money he never worked for.

Actions speak louder than words.

Can you say where you are Mann? No need to if you don't want to.
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GuptaRati 6666

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Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

Post17 Apr 2017

Are you talking about Charlie, the one who runs the BK show in Australia? He was Janki's favorite pet among us double foreign BKs in the 70's and 80's. Always thought of himself as being greater than any of the other non-Indian BKs.
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Mann

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Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

Post18 Apr 2017

I came across this website just 3 months after I came into the 'Gyan' in 2012. It was an eye-opener that the 'high' I was on is common but soon there was a voice telling me reading this website is Maya ... That these people were frustrated with the hypocrisy of half-baked Brahmins but in their anger they over-looked Baba too!

My "BK childhood" lasted for more than 3 years .. . But slowly the experiences stopped.

I was uncomfortable with the explanation on Cycle, Tree ... when Krishna will be born etc ... but this voice (not any Sister or Brother as there was only one soul in that country who was doing all the service, and our free time never matched) asked me to focus on the good bit and leave the rest ... so I went ahead though I did keep reading here on and off.

Two years later, when I decided to register here, there was this warning again ... the voice in the head (of an old man) and the same was in the Murlis in those days, ie October 2015 ... "children who leave Baba are eaten up by Maya etc". But I stopped Amrit Vela Yoga and skipped Murli class too, to be able to get rid of this voice ... I did leave the BK center and suffered in my so called "holiday".

When this entity wanted to convince me to come back to the center, I was gifted with beautiful experiences yet again (2nd childhood) ... It was amazing. But less than 5 months later they have gradually stopped. I was surprised to read here on some other thread of similar experience. That person who had few holidays and kept coming back to find the "high" slowly stops after you are back in the BK hold.

Now that I am convinced of how ugly, evil and a psychic trap the BKism is, the warnings have started again ... Because I am not waking up at 4am, so most of the warnings I sense are in the Murli ... Today's whole Murli was on the punishments, suffering if one leaves The Knowledge ... And I was reading and explaining it to the whole morning batch at the center ... Talk about paradoxes !

I could sense my own fear here, and also that this "entity" was watching me becoming apprehensive and being proud of the effect.

This is real.

I know I can move ahead but there is feeling of being hit in the stomach, of having received a blow. How to deal with this ?

Pre-BK experience

I could become a medium for spirits even before I knew anything about BKs. I can feel them and sometimes I used to pass the messages (which I have stopped now - since I became completely celibate, I don't get the negativity of connecting to these spirits. An aura of white light shields me).

My connection with God was strong since I was a baby. I was called a "little fakir (saint)" when I was a kid. I knew God was a point of light and we lived together as points of light in a free space. Pre-BK, I used to call it 'Home'. I have had the feeling of having God as a friend, Father, beloved etc. I knew lust, anger, greed, attachment, ego are vices. In fact, it was a part of the prayer we said everyday before going to bed, "Oh God, please make everyone happy, peaceful, free and help me get rid of lust, anger, greed, attachment, ego, jealousy ..."

I was the 'little fakir' helping other kids solve their troubles even as a teenager. I was the agony aunt and never felt the need for any other relation since I could have all of them with my invisible friend. Most of my close friends (because I could give continuously without expecting in return and did not charge for my services, most of them are so attached to me) could sense that I have somebody very special in my life. I have always had a dialogue with Him and I know He is an Ocean of Love ... He doesn't use such harsh words of receiving punishments and suffering if I don't do this ... or do this (reading on info for example) ... never.

BK-experience

There is an element of truth in the BKism. The concepts of soul, sanskaars ... Supreme Soul ... Paramdham etc which I knew already. But a lot of what they teach is incorrect ... 5000 years cycle, 84 births, only BKs being pure etc.

I am sure Lekhraj's soul is flying around and takes possession of the bodies to do service -- marketing his crazy idea to the world.

It is the last one week that I have realised (reading on this website coupled with my own experience) that Lekhraj's soul must have attained a little bit of true spiritual knowledge and learnt the parts which I knew before BK. When I came in BKs what attracted me was the part which was similar to my own experience. The center in that country had no picture of Lekhraj, Dadis or any other senior. Neither did it have any surrendered teacher. This coupled with my conviction that God directly teaches me the right things anyways, I never consulted or for that matter regarded another human being as a source of information. I can remain completely silent for months. I hardly spoke to anybody in the first 2 years of being in BKs. God spoke to me and if I noted those points, they were the same as that were relevant to me in that day's Murli.

So when I went for my second Baba Milan that little part of the truth shone brighter to me than everything else (the VIPs scramble at the stage, ego bashing of the Seniors or preferential treatment to some etc) and God did not say anything about surrendering. It was the clever Lekhraj who wanted me to since he knew I could be a easy medium. In the milan, it's clearly Lekhraj's soul which enter Gulzar and He is not God. Because he had attained some of the divine truth, coupled with the conditioning the person has gone through already (God comes to meet you blah ... blah ...) produces the effect of having met something-Godly !

Now I can separate the two and I know who has written the Murli. I, too, think he must have had some psychiatric disorder ... Drawings on the walls, destruction predictions, he got his so many calculations wrong. Because Lekhraj's soul replaced God in my further conversations, I got off-track ... And now this guy knows that I have spotted the difference between the two, he wants to scare me ... Hmmmm !

Pink, I am a post-grad in psychology already and I, too, have been thinking of setting up my own practice to help others come out of the cults.

ex-l, I am on the move mostly so don't belong to any particular city. In another 2 months, I will shift again ... why do you ask?
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ex-l

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Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

Post20 Apr 2017

Mann wrote:ex-l, I am on the move mostly so don't belong to any particular city. In another 2 months, I will shift again ... why do you ask?

Hi.

Just because I am interested in how different BK countries operate to different rules. Obviously we do not have good representation of people from non-English speaking countries here, nor from India or other developing nations.

The intrusive nature of the BK 'god spirit' also suggests to me that they are not at a high spiritual level. Classical "spiritual theory" suggests the higher they are the more refined they are and they would never intrude or dominate someone against another's will (unless, perhaps, in an emergency).

I tend to think that a being at a high spiritual level would be respectful of others space and not pressurise them. I've seen and known of other spiritualist mediums in relationships with spirits at a low level becoming increasing troubled and enslaved by them.

What are your intuitions about Lekhraj Kirpalani's state of being both during and after his BK life?

My experience of BKism is that there was a lot of pressure from the top down keeping the "hamsters" busy, busy, busy on their BK hamster 'seva' wheels.
"Must become karmateet before Destruction ... must gain high status in Golden Age ... must earn more Godly inheritance ... must remember Baba more ... must do more Yoga ... must make more subjects ... must serve more devotees ... must get up earlier ... must grind bones in service ... must give more money ... must incalcate more divine virtues ... must think less negative thoughts ... must make Dadi happy ... must chase more VIPs ... more students ... more donations ... must do my chart ... must do traffic control ... must clean centre ... must write to Baba ... must phone Dadi to take Shrimat ... must say good night to Baba ..."

Did I miss any? Oh ... "I MUST BE MORE Om Shanti ... but when do I have time to!!!!!". Life as a BK ... screw that.

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