Spiritual growth & relationship with Baba/God after BK

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Spiritual growth & relationship with Baba/God after BK

Post23 Feb 2009

butterfly on 21 Feb 09 wrote:Hi

The great dilemma for me after leaving BK was my relationship with God and my fear that I wouldn't continue to grow spiritually. It even took me a while to stop considering myself a BK long after stopping going to the centre.

A big consideration for me was my love for God which was there before BK and then the relief of experiencing that my relationship with God continued after leaving. The fear is instilled in one that when you leave BK you are leaving Baba/God. Of course, we know now that that is a lie and one of the important reasons why so many are afraid to leave.

Even though I wasn't going to the centre every morning anymore, I was still speaking to God all the time like I had done while being a 'pukka' BK. A saving grace was that even though we had been advised not to read anything that was not from the BK, I had continued to read spiritual books because I felt that it was a limiting view of God to think that He would only teach through the BK. I know that He teaches and speaks to us in so many ways, through nature, our relationships, life experiences and the writings of other spiritual souls.

I wish that I had gone to a therapist when I left but had the same fears like so many I have read about on this forum. So it may have taken me longer to recover but, thankfully, after many years I believe that I am coping so much better now and continue to experience myself as a non-aligned spiritual child of a loving Father.

Visiting this website over the years has sustained me and helped me to feel that I am not alone. There have been many dark days and feelings of despair. Over the last few years I have watched as others I know, love and respect, have started on the journey of recovery of BK-ism. I am thankful for the honesty of those who contribute and for efforts of those who maintain this site. You do more than you will ever know in saving souls. I have been able to direct them to this website and we have been able to find a starting point for sharing discussion on what really happened to us while in BK, and how do we move on from there.

The conditioning is long and deep and was further ingrained by our desire to draw closer to Him and serve Him and His children.

Keep up this wonderful soul-saving and sustaining work! This website saved my life on more than one occassion so very heartfelt. Thank You!

butterfly
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sandoc kumar

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Re: Spiritual growth & relationship with Baba/God after BK

Post13 Feb 2017

Freeing yourself from this organisation with solo rights on the God, surprisingly works in your favour.

Even after being independent with my beliefs, talks, food and other activities - my meditation continues to remain at the same elevated level.

My love for God has actually multiplied. I feel as if my truthfulness and honesty are being honoured by the god, and I continue to get the blissful experiences.

The source of all the great knowledge known to humanity from all times is god and man keeps adding his own colour to it and then claim it as his own or unique.

God is not the property of any organisation and such propaganda by BKs only point towards gross Ignorance.

Any independent soul can verify the truth, which speaks for itself.
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ex-l

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Re: Spiritual growth & relationship with Baba/God after BK

Post13 Feb 2017

Do you think the BK god spirit and God are one and the same thing?

How long have you been out now, and what made you leave?

Thank you.
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Maui

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Re: Spiritual growth & relationship with Baba/God after BK

Post22 Sep 2017

"The conditioning is long and deep; further ingrained by our desire to grow closer to Him"

... this touches me to the core. It is why I stay; why I cannot leave; yet I am also struck by, "God is not the property of any organization and "does the analogy of feet stuck in sticky glue come to mind?" How does one leave God; and where /what does one do afterward? I am afraid to ask this one ... those who have left, is there a belief/connection with God?
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Pink Panther

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Re: Spiritual growth & relationship with Baba/God after BK

Post22 Sep 2017

Maui : how does one leave God; and where /what does one do afterward? I am afraid to ask this one..those who have left, is there a belief/connection with God?

For some, yes, for others, no. Many only ”kind of” leave - they prefer a state which they call themselves "fringe BKs” . They disagree enough with the organisation and interpret the teachings in their own way just enough to be able to say they are ”not like them” but lack the intellectual integrity to really examine the hypocrisy of that position.

They’re basically saying their understanding of BK teachings is superior to those ”official” BKs their ”god” has made their Seniors and divinely appointed betters. They are often even saying that what ”god himself” teaches is wrong, or needs their equivocations and reinterpetations.

If they accept it's God, then bloody well accept that he knows what the hell he is talking about. If they think he doesn’t know what he is talking about - then they have very self-serving ideas about what ”God” is.

Or maybe they merely have found a comfortable niche with just enough ‘questioning' to feel they are satisfying the inner itch that something ain't right and that they are being intellectually active, but not so much questioning as to require acceptance of unwanted answers that tell us we were wrong and we’re needing to come up with a new paradigm, or world view.

That I think is the hard part - admitting we were wrong, then putting in an equal amount of effort to deconstruct our conditioning, then reconstruct a new, personally developed, independent philosophy that is going to allow for changes as we mature, or rather permits healthy maturing as we inevitably change (rather than being stunted by dogma & ideologies. Curiously, one BK I knew used to grown Bonsai trees - trees kept miniature by binding them to restrict their growth. It was only years later I realised how that was an outward expression of a probable unconscious awareness of what they were doing to themselves).

The way we explain our experiences to ourselves is often based on the received language and culture we have. Once we are habituated to think ”verbally” and with certain words and associations, then learning to think or to be conscious for ourselves non-verbally, beyond language and culture so as to get back to our own essential humanity, is not easy.

You need make effort to un-find yourself, to let go of desires of what you think you are or should be. Ego is largely a fanciful imagination we have of ourselves that enables us to ”keep on” being and becoming. Learning to do that without preconceptions needs diligent perseverance - which we can practice just living a simple life and seeing clearly what exactly is going on in each and every moment. What’s under our noses, the basics done well, is more than enough to be getting on with.
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Re: Spiritual growth & relationship with Baba/God after BK

Post22 Sep 2017

Thanks so much Pink Panther ... I see diligent perseverance is exactly what is needed. I can see what you mean by being on "the fringe". It also not only as you say need to examine the hypocrisy surrounding that position ... but its' also a lot of added turmoil one foot in/one foot out and not making a life decision for personal benefit. I cannot sit on the fringe ... it is too painful, just as all this is and has been.

I am starting to accept ... It hit me that you used that word ... that this is not God; all of what you said I need to accept; and also this God now makes no sense to me. Admitting we were wrong is hard ... very hard for almost 10 years for me. I have read "Freedom of mind" and "Combating Cult Mind Control by Steven Hassan; "Take back your life" by Lalich and Tobias and another re: Freedom from Scientology. All in hopes of detaching myself from being like "glue" to this organization and so called God.

I am going to try and discern what you mean by making effort to "un-find myself" ... your last paragraph is hugely helpful, and I thank you !!!
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ex-l

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Re: Spiritual growth & relationship with Baba/God after BK

Post22 Sep 2017

Maui wrote:How does one leave God; and where /what does one do afterward?

One is not leaving God, one is returning to God, after having been distracted by the BKs away from God to their god spirit, which - at best - is just their deceased guru founder or some collective energy/imagination; and - at worst - a malicious/deceptive/"trickster god" spirit.

Start by observing how the BKs managed to pervert and derail your own or the universal conception and experience of God, and replace it with their own exclusive conception of "God". One we have tracked the development of since the days they believed Lekhraj Kirpalani was God.

We all know the BKs do this ... confusing and misleading non-BKs to believe when speak of "God", the One, the Light etc they mean the same thing, when really the BKs mean their god instead. Some of us even did it.

That is the starting point to untangle. Their god spirit is simply not God, nor can it ever be. It is far too fallible and faulted. It is a misleading god.
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Maui

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Re: Spiritual growth & relationship with Baba/God after BK

Post22 Sep 2017

Thank you ex-I ... that is a good starting point. I never before looked at it as a perversion; but that makes the most sense to me now ... I was starting to feel there is no God; I could not even feel the sense of awe in the God that I knew all my life, or if that was even real anymore ... if it ever was.

Did you hear about their "one God, One Family" years long programs with music, workshops, etc ... permeating the idea that we are all one family connecting to the same one and only God? When I wanted to leave, that brought me back thinking it was real ... sadly, another way to addict oneself.

Your words "at best ... and ... at worst ..." it feels like what I came to believe is such a deception and perversion that I have lived.
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Maui

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Re: Spiritual growth & relationship with Baba/God after BK

Post28 Nov 2017

What a realization ... I know it's already been said; but how can I, or anyone, have thought this was God ... whatever, whomever, or perhaps nothing, is being "channeled" has caused so much harm. You say to start with this ... my idea, belief of God was totally replaced with their own idea of God thinking it "was God". I was mislead; and I misled others. It's a horrible feeling ... to have done not only to myself, but to others.
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ex-l

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Re: Spiritual growth & relationship with Baba/God after BK

Post28 Nov 2017

You are not alone.

I've been out decades and every now and again I get "mugged" by a vivid recollection of what an idiot I was and how I was allowed or even encouraged to behave like an idiot.

I think it's a process that continues as long as you actually grow, age or progress and can see the idiot you were back then.
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Maui

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Re: Spiritual growth & relationship with Baba/God after BK

Post29 Nov 2017

Thank you for that ex-I ... it is quite sobering. Yes, I suppose as everything else is, it is a process too ... but I think when you say "as long as you ACTUALLY grow, age or progress" ... is also sobering to think if one goes backwards. Do you really find that the further you are away (decades you said) the clearer you become? Please let me know what you think on this one ... I would hate my whole life to be one of going "back and forth" ...

I am starting to think of this much like any addiction ... for example, needing to stay away from people, places and things. Stay away from all BKs, all BK functions, centers, and events; and throw out all BK books, literature, CDs etc.

I have a huge ... huge ... library of all this stuff over almost 10 years.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Spiritual growth & relationship with Baba/God after BK

Post29 Nov 2017

One of my favourite books is ”Wisdom of the Idiots” - a compilation of sufi stories edited by Idries Shah. The title says a lot, as do the stories.

Maui, whether you consciously stay away from BK people, places, and things or you let them wither over time, you cannot leave a vacuum. Otherwise you will be sucked back by your own needs not being fulfilled.
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ex-l

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Re: Spiritual growth & relationship with Baba/God after BK

Post29 Nov 2017

Yes, I think it is very much like fighting an addiction.

Addictions also have socio-emotional roots and so while you address those, you need to "go sober" and stop the pushers and enablers (other addicted people) from dragging you back in.

Of course, you keep maturing and developing after you leave. It's like a rocket being set free.

BKism is such a small pressure pot to be trapped in.
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Maui

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Re: Spiritual growth & relationship with Baba/God after BK

Post29 Nov 2017

The two of you, PP and ex-I, do give me hope and much to think about. I hope others are reading this too ... it's so important for spiritual safety so to speak, and to saving yourself on all levels. I don't quite know where to start first on filling that "vacuum" ... great analogy PP.

Today, I received 2 messages from some great friends ... BK friends ... on some connections and things to do. I chose not to respond as yet. To fill this huge void, I don't wish to throw myself into just anything. I've always considered myself wary and discerning ... well, see where that got me!! Hahah ... OK, humor helps. I will start I guess looking at what those socio-emotional needs may really be, as you suggest ex-I ... I bet that's going to be enlightening to learn with all of this.

I really like that vision of a "rocket being set free" ... thank you both!!
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Pink Panther

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Re: Spiritual growth & relationship with Baba/God after BK

Post29 Nov 2017

My suggestion is to get into new modes of thinking, i.e. many people simply interchange the nouns in their mental language and leave the ”relationship” and "doing words” as they are, in effect not changing much more than the outer garment that hangs over the same framework.

Forget ”spirituality” - it is a shapeshifting fig leaf for solipsism and narcissism in a lot of cases. Simpler touchstones like pragmatism, practicality and the greater good are IMO better for determining relevance, meaning and importance when evaluating things.

Many BKs are so obsessed with ”spirituality", future lives, status, god, what is sattwic and what’s not, creating converts/subjects ”serving" the world through "thoughts and prayers” (aka ”spreading vibrations” etc) that they forget to live and love today, live healthily, self-sufficiently and generously. Giving a sandwich to a hungry person feeds them far more effectively than a hundred ”good wishes”.

ex-l has argued well in the past that the way to judge the BK organisation is not by what they say but by the actions and the tangible results of those actions. "Follow the money" if you like, or examining what it is they actually physically achieve. And what it is they do tangibly is they draw in time, money and energy from others to expend it where? On drawing in more time, money and energy, to what end? For supporting their co-dependents - and accumulating property.
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