Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

Classic posts chosen by the admins of xBKChat.com and the users of this website
  • Message
  • Author
Offline

clearofBK

BK supporter

  • Posts: 61
  • Joined: 02 Oct 2014

Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

Post01 Feb 2016

Thank you Yogi108. Indeed that's a fair summary above, I have left the baggage behind and have absolutely no regrets of my association with BKs. What has been remarkable for me is that deep meditation experience still continue if I have the time to do it. On this 18th Jan, I did not have any time to meditate and was travelling for work and still that powerful feeling enveloped me without even trying. I do relish such experiences from time to time without being dependent on BKs
Offline
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BKWSU

  • Posts: 9775
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

Post03 Feb 2016

So what do you think it is that is overshadowing you?

I appreciate that you might not specifically care about, as long as you feel something, but I still think it is worth stepping back and wondering if it is actually good and leads to more good?

I am always very interested in the BKs' use of language, in this case the word "powerful". It's one that the BKs use an awful lot. Indeed, one could argue that theirs is a path to or about "power". In their case, quite worldly power and political in nature, ie power in society and power and influence over others. For decades, and in the Murlis and other material, they described themselves as a "religio-political" movement.

It is assumed that "powerful" is good which, given their roots in the Indian caste system is revelatory about their values and ambition.

Perhaps "tangible" would be a better description of what you are experiencing?

I mean, in what way is it, or you, "powerful"? Are you talking about Superman like abilities, influence over others, or status within society? Obviously, the answer is none of those.

For me, I don't accept that the god spirit (or spirits) of BKism are the God of all humanity and religions at all. I tend to think that the grosser, more tangible experiences must be lower ones; and the higher they are, the more subtle they are (meaning that most of us cannot even pick them up).

Is it an entirely subjective experience, or does it lead to positive expressions?

Honest, open questions?

30 years later, and surely being one of the BKs "anti-Christs", I can still feel pressures I equated as "experiences" duirng my BK days ... but I don't see it as a positive thing. I also think that during my BK days, I wasted years doing nothing, doing pointless activities and, ulimately, was living an impractical self-damaging life.

--

I am mindful that we've wandered off topic from the original question and so I will refer back to it now.

Actually, I did not know that after 5 years you were suppose to hand over everything to the organisation. That's part of the unwritten system they don't tell you about and you only find out if you are deep in and it is relevent to you. I knew that some Indian Brothers did so, handing over their entire and sometimes considerable wages, and being given pocket money back by the center-in-charge to live on. And I know many Western BKs who took on all the expenses or mortgage of the centre and doing service, and gave up all privacy to do so, e.g. no time off, no private space.

I can see how from the BKWSU point of view, 5 years is a good test point to make sure that the individual is fully committed and socially conditioned. But, as your experience above says, why do they do so and why do individuals take on all the trappings and burdens of being a BK if you still keep "having the experience" if you don't?

Traditionally, orthodox BKs would just say - from the Murlis - that you are just cruising on the good karma that you earned whilst being a pukka BK, in essence using it up or "eating unripe fruit" (actual quote). Hinting that it would run out. Or even wishing it on you, almost, to prove all the extra efforts were worth it.

"Dispute resolution" between BKs was dealt with by phoning the nearest Zone-in-Charge who would listen, mouth platitudes and tell people to have more Yoga and do more service. Conflicts were just boiled down to "clearing Karmic accounts" and it was theorised that the greatest karmic account had to be settled within the BK "family" as it was amongst the BK family that the BK souls had spent the most time reincarnating.

They did not stop to compare patterns of problems arising amongst other 'intentional communities'.

If things got bad, eventually a senior BK would come to the centre for a few days to "give power" and re-vitalise activities.

At one centre I was at, there were personality problems between the center-in-charge and certain Brothers that enventuated with a Senior Sister coming up after the Brothers had complained by phone and letter to the main centre. I did not and don't know what it was all about. I was not a complainant. But I remember everyone in the centre being interviewed by her, including myself.

There were two Sisters living in the apartment which only had one bedroom. One living room was a classroom, the other was a "Baba's room" for meditation which was mostly empty except for the trance light of Lekhraj Kirpalani. Both fairly young Sisters went out to work for a living and to pay the mortgage. Came home and did service. Theirs was a 24/7 lifestyle with no holidays.

One Sister, the one being complained about, eventually had a nervous/physical breakdown and was moved to another quiet centre to recouperate. I don't know what happened, but eventually she left the BKWSU and found a partner.

I've not seen any manual of how the BKs deal with all this. There are some references in the charter I linked to recently. If anyone know more, please post details of it.

It seems different countries have different systems according to how much control individuals will tolerate, or how confident they are. For example, in most countries you have to be a full BK for many years before you can open a centre, but in the USA, a couple that had money but did not following the principles were offered to open one.
Offline

clearofBK

BK supporter

  • Posts: 61
  • Joined: 02 Oct 2014

Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

Post11 Feb 2016

ex-l wrote:I appreciate that you might not specifically care about, as long as you feel something, but I still think it is worth stepping back and wondering if it is actually good and leads to more good?

If you read through my posts, you would appreciate I am way past doing the stepping back and decide for myself what works and what doesn't. But, anyhow. I would say it again. Yes indeed, I have stepped back enough and not only found the "experience" is unchanged, it's often involuntary. It comes back without sitting actively for meditation.

How does it feel? No way to describe it. Have you been in love? Imagine meeting your beloved after years of separation. I don't know how else to describe it as I have gone though both feelings and this one far outweighs in the power of the feeling from even the one you get from being in love with someone. Can this feeling do any bad to you? Not at all. It comes from somewhere deep within and leaves a positive imprint. For me, it has always done good and I am content with it, and will not want this to stop.
Offline
User avatar

Pink Panther

  • Posts: 1508
  • Joined: 14 Feb 2013

Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

Post12 Feb 2016

Sorry to butt into the self-love fest but the topic was not really about ”inner” experiences of meditation, more about what it was like to live in a BK centre.
Offline
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BKWSU

  • Posts: 9775
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

Post13 Feb 2016

clearofBK wrote:Can this feeling do any bad to you?

Does it do any good for anyone or anything else but you? (Honest question)

You know; starving kids, destitute widows, stray dogs ... the environment? Even improve your own practical circumstances, career development, pension or profit margin etc.

That kind of stuff.

If I had one criticism ... and you know I have many ... it's that BKism led me to doing nothing while believing I was one of the "chosen ones ... a top soul in the world" etc. In fact, all I was doing was missing out on life's opportunities and building the foundations for my own futures in the here and now.

So can it "do any bad"?

Yes, sure, in the medium to long run. The old "lotus-eater" syndrome. It may seem strange to call BK style spirituality "pleasure and luxury" when it involves doing nothing and costing nothing ... but the ability to do that in itself *is* a huge luxury in today's world and has been for much of our history.

Ask a mother with 3 children, a shopkeeper with a family feed, an adivasi scrapping a living off the side of a hill in Rajasthan etc.

For the most part, philosophy and all that we might call "spiritual" activities (boy that word's becoming old these days) are the pleasure and luxury of the rich ... and that includes the 'welfare recipient BKs' in the West who can do absolutely nothing all day and still be fed, housed and watered.

I am not aiming that criticism at you but it appears they are increasing tolerated by the BKWSU amongst their ranks at retreats, centres etc. In short, free workers paid for by whichever society the BKs happening to be living off the fat of. I know of a few in Australia and the UK, for example.
    lotos-eater

    Mentioned in Homer's Odyssey as bearing a fruit that caused a pleasant drowsiness, when the Lotophagi or Lotus-eaters ate of the lotus tree they would forget their friends and homes and would lose their desire to return to their native land in favor of living in idleness.

    Definition: A person who spends their time indulging in pleasure and luxury rather than dealing with practical concerns.
Tennyson wrote:There is sweet music here that softer falls
Than petals from blown roses on the grass,
Or night-dews on still waters between walls
Of shadowy granite, in a gleaming pass;
Music that gentlier on the spirit lies,
Than tir'd eyelids upon tir'd eyes;
Music that brings sweet sleep down from the blissful skies.
Here are cool mosses deep,
And thro' the moss the ivies creep,
And in the stream the long-leaved flowers weep,
And from the craggy ledge the poppy hangs in sleep."
Offline
User avatar

Mr Green

ex-BK

  • Posts: 1864
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

Post16 Feb 2016

I found it quite empowering, and I enjoyed the comaradery of a small centre.

But it, like everything in life, could be equally horrid.
Offline
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BKWSU

  • Posts: 9775
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

Post17 Feb 2016

I never lived in a centre but I spent a year or so in a Brother's house a few doors along from a small centre, so apart from going to work, my life was all BK from 4 am to 10.30 pm along a 100 metre stretch of road.

I think in comparison to other small "intentional communities", BKs do not become 'quite' as stir crazy because the focus on on the meditation and Murli and not personal politics ... but that the entire purpose of all that activity is utterly crazy (constantly reinforcing BKism and converting souls to BKism etc).

On one level ... like being in the Marines ... BK life is "healthy", in that regular hours, no late nights, lots of cleaning etc are good for you. But that you would learn more practical skills and a profession in the Marines. You really don't learn any in BKism, except a form of lying and manipulating others which might only help if you went into Public Relationships (PR) and advertising.

An interesting experiment to try would be to live the BK life (getting up at 4am, working to 10.30pm every day, avoiding conflicts etc) for a few years ... and see how you feel and what you have achieved in your live, whether personal growth or career profit.

I will bet you that at least 70 to 80% of the BK feel good factor is based purely on the physical aspects of the lifestyle and not any magical or mystical component.

And that you will growth much more and your business or career profit much more if you don't waste your energy fueling the Kirpalani Klan's delusion of grandeur.

In fact, thinking about it, I'd raise that to at least 90%.
Offline
User avatar

Mr Green

ex-BK

  • Posts: 1864
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

Post21 Feb 2016

Yes, ex-l, I agree, very healthy diet and a fixed routine. Always busy, always striving, it's just the corruption, negligence etc that needs sorting, and that it is not God, and Destruction is not going to happen, and The Cycle doesn't exist.
Offline
User avatar

Pink Panther

  • Posts: 1508
  • Joined: 14 Feb 2013

Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

Post22 Feb 2016

A friend of mine has a son who has been wayward for the last ten years, since he was 15. She said to me - I wish he'd go join a cult or something, get some kind of purpose and routine in his life!

Needless to say, of late he has started to think he has cracked the secrets to the universe and if only people followed his ideas the world would be a better place. Sounds like he is getting ready to start his own.
Offline

Mann

  • Posts: 25
  • Joined: 25 Oct 2015

Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

Post09 Apr 2017

Well ... It's been a long time since I posted anything here. I did leave the center in 2015 and had a fairly average life while being away. I had a great job to keep myself busy. There was no BKism for the first 5-6months ... infact, I did have some basic BK rules challenged ... just to see if it really does have any impact. For example, not waking up at 4am, no Murli, eating food cooked by non-bks (including at restaurants), dressing up in colourful clothes and no evangelising!

It felt great for some time and the ugly turn was just around the corner. I experienced bouts of anger which I had not felt for years, my rage affected my work life too. To counter it, I came back to BK lifestyle including attending the Murli class. This aggravated my family member's temper. They were happy to see me getting back to normal and because they hate BKs (they think their daughter is held hostage inside my body) we had quarels quarrels over my desire to cook separate food. I chose to move out on my own. Finding a suitable apartment, the tedious process of shifting, living alone felt tough after living a sheltered life at the BK center. I met with an accident and that left my working hand inoperative for almost 2 months ...

It was difficult to deal with so many challenges at the same time. I had resigned from my job which involved lying to young adults to boost sales. I hate lying.

It was around this time that this "feeling" of re-connecting with God/Baba started ... Yes, Bkism has compromised my connection with God and I did not know where and whom to look for help. I intensified my efforts of being a good BK again ... I was surrounded my evil thoughts of all the sensory pleasures pulling me out of warm cocoon ... Eating junk (I was eating more than half kgs of chocolates, chips a day ... sleeping the whole day ... forgone all the physical exercises). There were the signs of depression setting in ... I felt lonely and lost.

Just when I thought I should seek professional help, I saw the notice for a residential retreat at one of BK retreat center. The Baba or BK God was "talking" to me by now. In the retreat I received so much love, care, affection which felt real. Though my rational mind knew it's a con techinque but I did not mind ... And one of the senior at retreat recognised me and the next week was spent listening to the brainwashing. She convinced me and surprisingly "Baba" reassured me in clever ways that my needs will be taken care of. I have returned to live at the same center again. And within 2months I am back to my hatred for this lifestyle of lying, cheating innocent people. Now the voice of my rational mind is stronger than that of "Baba" and I am in splits again ...

The only factor in favour of living at the center is having unpaid labour do your chores, free boarding-lodging etc ...
Has anybody felt similar feelings ... how many return back to live at the center after leaving it?
Offline
User avatar

Pink Panther

  • Posts: 1508
  • Joined: 14 Feb 2013

Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

Post09 Apr 2017

Please find yourself a professional counsellor or therapist who has experience of dealing with issues around beliefs, cults, religious dependency, etc. It is not that something is wrong with you it is human nature. Some of us deal with some things better than others, and circumstances can have a lot to do with how we deal with things. We all need a helping hand or expert advice sometimes, especially if the DIY approach is not working.
Offline

bkti-pit

Independent, free thinking BK

  • Posts: 504
  • Joined: 14 Jun 2007

Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

Post09 Apr 2017

I feel sorry for you Mann.

I left 8 years ago. I have kept a few friends there and have visited centers occasionally but never felt a pull to join back.

Like you, I had a hard time with the lies and hypocrisy. My biggest relief was from not having to suppress my conscience anymore. It took a few years to heal the scars. Life outside the BKs has been a blessing.

I never felt the need to seek help from a professional but I know some who did and would likely recommend it. It is probably worth giving it a try if you can afford it.
Offline
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BKWSU

  • Posts: 9775
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

Post09 Apr 2017

mann wrote:The only factor in favour of living at the center is having unpaid labour do your chores, free boarding-lodging etc ...

Wow ... that's not exactly the most moral position to take, is it? How does that work out ... an army of Indian grannies, the "chapatti rollers" of the Shiv Shakti Army?

What do you have to do in return? I am amazed to read the BKs offer such services. That would appear to me that they have too much land, too much property and too much money ... but not enough BKs to fill it.

Price? Your soul (... and not being able to sleeping in in the mornings).

Firstly, I pretty sure Baba really does not talk to you. That's just a convenient conformation bias. You just chose the easy, familiar path out of your difficulties.

Secondly, I think the big danger for someone at your/our level in BKism (as I was) is that it breeds a kind of dependency, not just on the high or the social support from more disciplined individuals, but financially too. Once you are in the system, it's very difficult to get out simply because you don't have the money and other connections a normal person would.

I am pretty sure it's not the onions that brought you down too.

That was my experience. I was desperate to get out but it took me time until I could get the money together and a place of my own. I think I went back for one morning class, as a friend of mine was getting involved, but the weirdness and falseness of the interaction interactions were enough to know I did not want to be part of it. I was a failure in their eyes ... an contagious untouchable.

As BKs we were programmed to believe that if we left all sort of terrible karma would catch up with us. In a sense, we were programmed to doubt ourselves, especially others around us, and fail if we left. A self-fulfilling prophecy of not being able to survive not hooked on Baba. I remember the first morning I did not turn up to Morning Class, I got a note from the Sister telling me how I would "cry tears of blood" etc come Destruction if I did not come back.

I get a sense that you are connecting random things happening to that too.

I hear they've become a lot more flexible these days, BKs are marrying, people stay in Bhavans but not attend class etc. I can believe they were friendly enough when you went back ... I always thought a big part of BKism is how claustrophobic it is; small centres, same people, no changes. Anything to distract from that was welcomed.

I wonder when the extra attention will wear off and you'll be expected to carry your own weight, or bring in a profit.

Or do they just expect you to provide manual services looking after the place until the End of the World comes?

Pink recommends counselling. You could always augment that with non-cultie Yoga or Buddhist-style meditation to keep calm.

How did you get on with "sex lust" on your holiday ... is love and affection from another human a possibility in your case? (I just mention that because the way BKs connect the lust and anger). Falling in love again can provide the same kind of high to move on from BKism.

It sounds as if you have a good family who love and support you. Obviously we don't know the history there, but admitting to them you really need help might be a starting point.

Which ever path you choose, your goal should be to stand on your own two feet. There's no such as a free lunch from the Brahma Kumaris or their god spirit.
Offline

Mann

  • Posts: 25
  • Joined: 25 Oct 2015

Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

Post10 Apr 2017

It's helpful to read your posts ...Thanks everyone.

When I re-read my previous posts,the ones in 2015 I feel strange ... How did I come here again?

Let me try to look within and writing out the thoughts is helpful. Yes, I think the decision to come back was taken on impulse. This senior who was brainwashing me was asking every few hours if I have made the reservation for the tickets.

There was somebody definitely talking to me ... I know this entity. It is mean and selfish. I am sure some of you here have experienced it also. I have had more than 2 famous BK speakers admit it though they were still in praise of "it". Well, in BK terminology, it's called Baba ... but I have increasingly in the recent past felt that it cannot be God. If you are sick, just when you are about to give speech, lecture or a class suddenly the pain and the suffering disappears and the audience is left spell-bound. Few minutes after the performance ends, you return to your original state again.

Shivani, too, spoke of it and, infact, she said in public, "Baba is a very clever business man he can use your body whenever he wants but you have to bear your karmic accounts yourself afterwards". (She herself had to cancel a lecture because of backache and the next day she did deliver it and in an interview later admitted that Baba can give you relief from the suffering to give message to his children ... blah ... bhah).

Now this entity did make promises which I have written down and he lied ... I feel dejected.

I now look from this businessman's point of view ... I am very efficient salesperson having attractive CV and personality. There is this glow of radiance which comes on if I am the center or at Madhuban (it did disappear a few months after I had left the center). People are moved by my speeches and I can bring in a lot of money. So I am important for this businessman entity. I was on a walk this morning and was reflecting on the same thoughts and just then a stranger entered the lift and I convinced her to come for the course ... OMG !!

But when this entity sees that red flag are raised in my mind and because it knows my weaknesses he starts to convince me again to just be here for 2 more months ... In 2015, I had told him if I don't find tenants for my house I will leave the center. Next day a family showed to take it up ... But when he knows I am going with the usual flow, he doesn't even converse ... I am neglected completely ... He is zealous, proud, mean and extremely good at sales pitch !

In the last two days, since I have been thinking about my feelings and regretting my decision of coming back, he has been trying to woo me with offers like "the world outside is unsafe, you don't have to do any house work, basically, you do nothing, people bow down like deities and can live like a princess".

May be it sounds crazy to some of people here but I had given a condition to Him that I would come back to live at the center only if I can work and earn a living (I thought it will be step towards empowerment). He told me so lovingly that you would get a good job within 2-3 months of being at the center. And now He is trying to convince that women who work come back so tired, exhausted and angry ... so why don't you live in the comforts of the center and all that you have to do just sit at the seat (to speak) and rest Baba takes care ... so that's cheating !

I can accept that I came back because it seemed like easy solutions to the problems I faced at that moment. I could have stuck out. I know I can cope up with anything. It feels like being married to invisible, manipulative and mean person. I don't know how to divorce him !

As far celibacy is concerned ... it's a permanent thing. Even before I became a BK I was of the view that I will continue to remain celibate. It was the same during this holiday. I have been single for very long time by own choice and shall remain so. I don't desire a husband nor kids. I feel there are a lot of kids in this country already. If I can do something for the ones which are already here it will nice rather bring my own here !!
Offline
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BKWSU

  • Posts: 9775
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

Post10 Apr 2017

It's hard when you are hooked to a spook.

Same rules apply as to end any other bad relationship then. Same advice as even the BKs would give ... 6 months clean break, no contact, nothing to remind you of them, go start a rebound relationship (sexual or not).

Keep yourself busy in some other project in good too. Plenty of worthy causes in the world.

Just say no and eat onions and garlic. A beer or two as well.

(NB, I am not a professional relationship counsellor, you can tell that, right?)

You don't have to have kids when you make love, are there other obstacles to it?
PreviousNext

Return to Classic Posts

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest